loose tuning pins

[Marshall Gisondi]

Hi Everyone,
I came across a Wurlitzer console and oldie that had some loose tuning pins.  Fortunately upon checking the torque with the tuning lever, the pins were not as loose as that piano I e-mailed about a week or two ago.  This leads me to a question. How loose is too loose?  If the pin isn't nice and snug but seems to hold does that mean it is still not tunable?  Is there a certain torque measurement we need to look for or rage that says, these pins are OK to tune and will hold?  Is there a tool I could put on a pin that will measure the torque and give me a numerical reading?  Another thing is what is the best piano tilter out there?   I did walk away from this piano by the way.  I was concerned that the tuning pins in question would still fail eventually and I didn't want that coming back on me.  Thanks
Marshall


Marshall Gisondi
MARSHALL'S PIANO SERVICE
215-510-9400
http://www.phillytuner.com

[Joseph Garrett]

Marshall,

The "tool" to test tuning pin TORQUE is called a Torque Wrench. It should be measured in Inch Pounds, NOT Foot Pounds. The number that is the least for efficient tuning is 50 inch pounds. However, I've tuned on pianos that had less than that and held reasonably throughout a season or two. (i.e. 6 months or so)

Lotsaluck with the tilter thing. You should have purchased one when you were at the P.H. They make the best collapsible one, imo. I assume that you are ready to dive into the CA treatment of tuning pins. Are you sure you are ready to glue yourself to the piano?<G> Afterall, you do locate things by touch.

Best,

Joe

 

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

http://gpianoworks.com/

 

[Don]

Hi Marshall,

Sometimes pianos don't seem to need a lot of torque to stay in tune. Other times the torque is well within the proper range--but the piano won't stand in tune.

 

Regards,
Don Rose

---

[Joseph Garrett]

In other words: The only consistency is a total lack of consistency.<G>

[Marshall Gisondi]

Hi Joe,
You're right this could be a sticky situation.  I turned down that tuning for now because the bass unisons in question were so far from being in tune a red flag went up.  Torque wrench, I assume schaff and the others sell them.  I'll check with Don at the school about that tilter.  Thanks

[Joe DeFazio]

Hi Marshall,

Joe DeFazio here. I'm glad we got a chance to talk at MARC.

Marshall wrote:
> Torque wrench, I assume schaff and the others sell them.

...

Marshall wrote:
> I turned down that tuning for now because the bass unisons in question were so far from being in tune a red flag went up.

I wouldn't bother spending the money on a torque wrench. They don't give you as much information as an experienced technician's hand/arm/brain can glean by tuning the pins. As Don said, sometimes, they read OK with the torque wrench, but don't hold. Other times, they read marginally, but hold reasonably well.

Plus, the tuner's skill in setting the loose pin is a significant factor (they might hold for one experienced tuner and not for another inexperienced tuner in some cases).

The only way to develop the necessary experience is to tune a fair number of marginal pianos and see how they hold over the following months or year.

While I applaud your integrity in walking away from a tuning that you didn't know would be worth doing (in this type of situation), I don't think that there is anything wrong with saying to the customer something like:

"I don't know if this tuning will hold or not, but the only way to find out is to tune it and see how it holds. I certainly can't guarantee or warrant that it will hold, so it's up to you whether you want to spend money on a tuning or not."

If it holds OK, you have saved them the cost of a CA treatment (for now, at least). If not, you disclosed the risk and they decided to go ahead anyway, so your behavior was ethical, and you learned something valuable in the process.

If you are really unsure how to proceed in a certain circumstance, you could split the service into two visits. On the day you discover the issue, you could charge them for half of the sum of your tuning fee plus your pitch raise fee, then only do a rough, quick pitch raise pass (or two).

Then, on the second visit, say, 4-12 weeks later, arrive with a tilter and CA in your driver's car at the start of your tuning day. If the tuning held up very well, just do a fine tuning and collect the other half of your tuning plus pitch raise fee. If it didn't hold up well, CA the piano, go tune someone else's piano(s) nearby, and come back to do your fine tuning at the end of your tuning day.

In this scenario:

1) you learned something valuable about setting pins with marginal torque and how well they hold.

2) you made at least some money both visits.

3) you gave the customer the opportunity to possibly avoid the expense of CA treatment.

4) your customer paid no more than and possibly less than they would have if you had insisted on CA treatment from the beginning.

5) if you end up doing the CA treatment, you earned the same amount that you would have if you had insisted on CA treatment from the beginning.

Not a perfect solution, but a viable one.

Marshall wrote

> You're right this could be a sticky situation.

Marshall wrote:
> I'll check with Don at the school about that tilter.

Do check with Don about the safety of both of these operations for people with low vision. If he has foolproof and safe methods for doing both, great - learn them. If not, perhaps could your driver learn to assist you (for extra pay)?

Remember that techs have been seriously injured during tilting (ALWAYS strap the piano to the tilter).

And, one of my friends once glued a piano to the customer's rug. CA can ruin finishes (done that), clothes (done that), and rugs (almost did that), and it is irritating to breathe. I once glued my thumb and pointer finger together about an hour from home, without any debonder or acetone. I very carefully sliced them apart with a razor blade (no blood) in order to be able to drive home. CA can damage eyes as well.

If you end up using it, bring a fan, wear a good respirator and swim goggles and disposable gloves. Or, consider putting a vacuum with an extremely long hose outside, and suck the fumes out.

Good luck with it,

Joe DeFazio
Pittsburgh

[Isaac OLEG]

Yes torque wrench are mostly useful when installing new block or new tuning pins. And the reading differs the second day generally.

Piano tuned by incompetent tuner can look as if it does not hold, then when the tuning pin "bed" is refreshef and the pin is actively set it will hold tuning normally (particularly with its old strings snd of course if it have been kept to pitch for some number of years)

I also condider that the wire tension help the pin to stay in place and that tuning will be easier at 435hz at last, more than 415Hz.

If you cannot have the pin stopped on return, after 5 or 6 try, then it will not do it. I first tap a mm or 2 if possible without other trouble. As soon as the lever do not spring back usually you can tune.

Then I will be paid by the hour to correct decades of neglecting, certainly not an usual tuning fee.

I will not do it if I see the strings will break or the pins cannot be set.

Best regards

[Mike Spalding]

Hi Marshall,

I'll second what Joe said about not needing a torque wrench. The only
time I've needed to take torque readings has been in warranty situations
where the store or manufacturer wanted some numbers for their records.

Mike

[Joseph Garrett]

I'd have to disagree a little. I have used the Torque Wrench to demonstrate
to clients with bad pianos. And, I've used the T.W. as a determining factor
in decisions regarding rebuilding, etc. Many times I've found that the
readings given me an insight of Where the problem(s) were. That led to
further investigation for the cause etc. That led to an educated approach
to the repair. (i.e. separated pinblock is a prime example). It is one of
the many tools that you need to have for furthering your skills, imo.

Best,
Joe


Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
http://gpianoworks.com/

> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Spalding <mike.sp...@frontier.com>
> To: <pian...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: 4/23/2013 1:32:46 PM

> Subject: Re: [ptech] loose tuning pins
>

[Euphonious Thumpe]

Torque wrenches at Harbor Freight are sometimes just $10. Thumpe

---

From: Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net>;
To: <pian...@googlegroups.com>;

Subject: Re: [ptech] loose tuning pins

Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 9:30:10 PM

[Joseph Garrett]

Unfortunately, they are in FOOT POUNDS!! That's grease-monkey stuff. Unsuitable for our uses, imo. We measure our stuff in Inch Pounds.<G>

Best,

Joe

 

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

http://gpianoworks.com/

 

[Isaac OLEG]

Also, as it is written above, setting a pin provide a torque that have not really direct relation with the one tested above.

For different tuning pin metal, and different wire angles the torque obtained when tuning will be different (or the ability to tune)

I was afraid of sloopy feel way more when I was younger. Now if the feel is sloopy and the pins are not springy, I am in trouble.

[Максим Колесников]

Cardboard shim for loose tuning pin:

This is a cost-effective method of fixing a loose tuning pin. It avoids de-tuning adjacent strings, which can happen with methods that involve hammering tuning pins in.

First, turn the tuning pin enough to slacken the string coils. Then, using a narrow (but strong) screwdriver or an awl, lever the end of the string out of the tuning pin hole. (This point in the string is called the ‘becket’). Lever against the tuning pin itself to prise the string out.

Now unscrew the tuning pin completely, leaving the string and coils in place. From some corrugated cardboard about 2mm or 3mm thick, cut a piece 20mm by 50mm. Insert this strip into the tuning pin hole (It may be helpful to curve the cardboard round a screwdriver shaft first, to make it easier to insert into the tuning pin hole). Firmly start the tuning pin into the hole, with the cardboard shim in place. Carefully turn the tuning pin into the hole, going quite slowly so as to avoid a build-up of heat. Turn the pin all the way in, to the same level as before.

Carefully insert the end of the string (the ‘becket’) back into the tuning pin hole, using suitable pliers. Make sure that the string coils are kept tight, using a stringing hook or a screwdriver.

Tune the string to pitch. The cardboard shim method will keep the pin tight for years and does not involve glue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBwn2odX-g&feature=share&list=PLDD6668CC75A16250&index=8 

[Paul Milkie]

Update, Cyanoacrylate (super thin super glue) .

[Greg Newell]

Not for any of MY customers!

[Terry Farrell]

Why?

And FWIW, although I often go to super glue as a low-cost fix for a loose tuning pin, in the past I would shim, but rather than cardboard I would use sandpaper - usually around 120 grit. The sandpaper shim works very well and has a great feel to it. I'm quite sure I got that out of my Randy Potter course.

Terry Farrell

[David Kroenlein]

I sometimes use a 1/8" wide strip of veneer that seems to do the trick.  I got that from newton hunt years ago

Loose tuning pins (piano) -"Foot wrap" technique Tightening using a cardboard 

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

[a4...@aol.com]

Greetings,
Last year, I clamped the keys back together, and let them dry for a
week, rebushed some keys, changed out some punchings, and told them
they dodged the bullet when it all went back together and worked.
Somehow, rain had managed to pool on the floor above and was finding
its way to destiny, drip by drip, right over C4. A Steinway B, on the
stage of a jazz club.

They have been keeping a blue tarp over the piano ever since, but
would like to upgrade to a real cover that was also waterproof. I
don't think the heavy quilted ones will do. Who is making a thin,
fitted, naugahyde, (as if spelling it with a y makes it sound more like
an animal!), cover that would shed water?
thanks,

Ed Foote RPT

Ps. The rim of the 1913 model 0 that I put against the fence outside,
has finally had the outer rim completely separate from the inner rim.
This is a hide glue piano, and it has been out in the rain, snow,
sun,etc. for 18 years, and he inner rim still has a large section that
appears to still be intact. A little moisture on a piano doesn't scare
me as much as it once did.

[Joseph Garrett]

FWIW, sandpaper is a no-no in my book! I did a pinblock routing and the darned thing had multiple sandpaper shims, epoxy and super glue. The sandpaper caused my $75.00 Router Bits to dull and thus create excessive heat. The heat made the epoxy and CA glue to liquify and fly out all over the place, (ON my body!). Most painful in two ways: 1. the burns. 2. The cost of either sharpening or replacing the bits!

I have always used walnut Veneer shims. A 3/16" strip the length of the pinblock hole, wetted with saliva. Screw the tuning pin in and it'll feel like it supposed to.<G>

IF the pinblock is cracked, any kind of shim will exacerbate the problem, by wedging the crack and making neighboring pins loose! DAMHIK!<G> That is one of the reasons I've starting using CA for most PSO/POS loose tuning pin problems.

Of course YMMV.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 2:01 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins

Why?

And FWIW, although I often go to super glue as a low-cost fix for a loose tuning pin, in the past I would shim, but rather than cardboard I would use sandpaper - usually around 120 grit. The sandpaper shim works very well and has a great feel to it. I'm quite sure I got that out of my Randy Potter course.

Terry Farrell

On Jun 11, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Greg Newell wrote:
> Not for any of MY customers!

> On Jun 11, 2014 10:33 AM, "Максим Колесников" wrote:
> Cardboard shim for loose tuning pin:
>
> This is a cost-effective method of fixing a loose tuning pin. It avoids de-tuning adjacent strings, which can happen with methods that involve hammering tuning pins in.
>
> First, turn the tuning pin enough to slacken the string coils. Then, using a narrow (but strong) screwdriver or an awl, lever the end of the string out of the tuning pin hole. (This point in the string is called the ‘becket’). Lever against the tuning pin itself to prise the string out.
>
> Now unscrew the tuning pin completely, leaving the string and coils in place. From some corrugated cardboard about 2mm or 3mm thick, cut a piece 20mm by 50mm. Insert this strip into the tuning pin hole (It may be helpful to curve the cardboard round a screwdriver shaft first, to make it easier to insert into the tuning pin hole). Firmly start the tuning pin into the hole, with the cardboard shim in place. Carefully turn the tuning pin into the hole, going quite slowly so as to avoid a build-up of heat. Turn the pin all the way in, to the same level as before.
>
> Carefully insert the end of the string (the ‘becket’) back into the tuning pin hole, using suitable pliers. Make sure that the string coils are kept tight, using a stringing hook or a screwdriver.
>
> Tune the string to pitch. The cardboard shim method will keep the pin tight for years and does not involve glue.
>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBwn2odX-g&feature=share&list=PLDD6668CC75A16250&index=8

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I

gpianoworks.com

[Don]

Hi,

I service a grand piano where the folks used a vinyl type cover. It worked well until one spring and summer when we had a lot of rain. Even though the piano had a damppchaser system the strings have rusted.

I would, for that reason, caution against a non breathing cover. I'd suggest that a Gore tex or similar fabric be used instead of an impermeable membrane. https://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/home

 

Regards,
Don Rose

---

From: a441a via pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:54:47 PM
Subject: [pianotech] waterproof cover?

[Douglas Gregg]

I would consider getting a quilted nylon cover and spray it with this
new waterproofing spray from Rustoleum Co. it is called Never-Wet. It
makes anything totally waterproof. Tests seem to be amazing.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/neverwet/neverwet-kit

It should work great. Any water will just bead up and could be sponged off.

Doug Gregg

[Douglas Gregg]

On second thought, it would be better to get a heavy canvas cover with
no stitching on the top in a natural or white color and coat it with
Never Wet. It does leave a milky flat film so it would not show on
white or beige canvas. It should work well. it is somewhat
breathe-able. It is a silicone material. I would not coat the sides,
so that would help it breathe better.

See this site.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/story/rust-oleum-never-wet-spray

Doug Gregg

[Keith McGavern]

Don,

I applaud your use of the top and bottom cover recommended covers in the past. I personally have not had the need to go that route yet, but I assure you, if and when that times come, I shall do that based on your repeated mentions. Thank your for being, Don.

 

Keith

[Joseph Garrett]

Orrrr...better yet, Get the Roof Fixed! ???? Nah!<G>
Joe

-----Original Message-----
>From: Douglas Gregg <class...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 11, 2014 5:37 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com

[Terry Farrell]

What on earth were you routing on this pinblock with sandpaper shims? And then regarding your walnut (is walnut the ONLY species of wood that works?) shims - 3/16" I presume is the width of the shim. What is the thickness?

Terry Farrell

[Terry Farrell]

Goretex only "breathes" at lower temperatures.

Terry Farrell

[Joseph Garrett]

Terry,

I was routing out the  olde "pin field" in prep of inserting new pin block material in an upright. Standard procedure, in my shop, for uprights.<G>

I've tried other species of veneer and walnut seems to work the best. More predictable and easy to use. Standard raw veneer thickness and the width can vary according to how loose or tight you need/want to make it. I suck on it so that it becomes pliable, while I'm doing the prep work. (1-2 minutes is adequate)

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 6:25 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins

What on earth were you routing on this pinblock with sandpaper shims? And then regarding your walnut (is walnut the ONLY species of wood that works?) shims - 3/16" I presume is the width of the shim. What is the thickness?

Terry Farrell

On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:59 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:

> FWIW, sandpaper is a no-no in my book! I did a pinblock routing and the darned thing had multiple sandpaper shims, epoxy and super glue. The sandpaper caused my $75.00 Router Bits to dull and thus create excessive heat. The heat made the epoxy and CA glue to liquify and fly out all over the place, (ON my body!). Most painful in two ways: 1. the burns. 2. The cost of either sharpening or replacing the bits!
> I have always used walnut Veneer shims. A 3/16" strip the length of the pinblock hole, wetted with saliva. Screw the tuning pin in and it'll feel like it supposed to.

> IF the pinblock is cracked, any kind of shim will exacerbate the problem, by wedging the crack and making neighboring pins loose! DAMHIK! That is one of the reasons I've starting using CA for most PSO/POS loose tuning pin problems.

> Of course YMMV.
> Best,
> Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Farrell
> Sent: Jun 11, 2014 2:01 PM
> To: pian...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins
>
> Why?
>
> And FWIW, although I often go to super glue as a low-cost fix for a loose tuning pin, in the past I would shim, but rather than cardboard I would use sandpaper - usually around 120 grit. The sandpaper shim works very well and has a great feel to it. I'm quite sure I got that out of my Randy Potter course.
>

> Terry Farrell
>

> On Jun 11, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Greg Newell wrote:
> > Not for any of MY customers!
> > On Jun 11, 2014 10:33 AM, "Максим Колесников" wrote:
> > Cardboard shim for loose tuning pin:
> >
> > This is a cost-effective method of fixing a loose tuning pin. It avoids de-tuning adjacent strings, which can happen with methods that involve hammering tuning pins in.
> >
> > First, turn the tuning pin enough to slacken the string coils. Then, using a narrow (but strong) screwdriver or an awl, lever the end of the string out of the tuning pin hole. (This point in the string is called the ‘becket’). Lever against the tuning pin itself to prise the string out.
> >
> > Now unscrew the tuning pin completely, leaving the string and coils in place. From some corrugated cardboard about 2mm or 3mm thick, cut a piece 20mm by 50mm. Insert this strip into the tuning pin hole (It may be helpful to curve the cardboard round a screwdriver shaft first, to make it easier to insert into the tuning pin hole). Firmly start the tuning pin into the hole, with the cardboard shim in place. Carefully turn the tuning pin into the hole, going quite slowly so as to avoid a build-up of heat. Turn the pin all the way in, to the same level as before.
> >
> > Carefully insert the end of the string (the ‘becket’) back into the tuning pin hole, using suitable pliers. Make sure that the string coils are kept tight, using a stringing hook or a screwdriver.
> >
> > Tune the string to pitch. The cardboard shim method will keep the pin tight for years and does not involve glue.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBwn2odX-g&feature=share&list=PLDD6668CC75A16250&index=8
>
> Captain of the Tool Police
> Squares R I
> gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

I think you can get such from Alicia. Advertises in the back of the PTJ. She used to be part of APSCO.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 6:26 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [pianotech] waterproof cover?

Goretex only "breathes" at lower temperatures.

Terry Farrell

On Jun 11, 2014, at 7:00 PM, 'Don' via pianotech wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I service a grand piano where the folks used a vinyl type cover. It worked well until one spring and summer when we had a lot of rain. Even though the piano had a damppchaser system the strings have rusted.
>
> I would, for that reason, caution against a non breathing cover. I'd suggest that a Gore tex or similar fabric be used instead of an impermeable membrane. https://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/home
>
> Regards,
> Don Rose

> From: a441a via pianotech

> To: pian...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:54:47 PM
> Subject: [pianotech] waterproof cover?
>
> Greetings,
> Last year, I clamped the keys back together, and let them dry for a
> week, rebushed some keys, changed out some punchings, and told them
> they dodged the bullet when it all went back together and worked.
> Somehow, rain had managed to pool on the floor above and was finding
> its way to destiny, drip by drip, right over C4. A Steinway B, on the
> stage of a jazz club.
>
> They have been keeping a blue tarp over the piano ever since, but
> would like to upgrade to a real cover that was also waterproof. I
> don't think the heavy quilted ones will do. Who is making a thin,
> fitted, naugahyde, (as if spelling it with a y makes it sound more like
> an animal!), cover that would shed water?
> thanks,
>
> Ed Foote RPT
>
> Ps. The rim of the 1913 model 0 that I put against the fence outside,
> has finally had the outer rim completely separate from the inner rim.
> This is a hide glue piano, and it has been out in the rain, snow,
> sun,etc. for 18 years, and he inner rim still has a large section that
> appears to still be intact. A little moisture on a piano doesn't scare
> me as much as it once did.
>

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Terry Farrell]

Hmmmm. So few uprights are ever rebuilt. Valid point though. Thanks.

Terry Farrell

[Joseph Garrett]

Terry,

For the dollar$ spent it's better than buying any but the most expensive modern uprights imo! (and half the price of the good uprights, new!)

 Of course, if they want shiny black polyester finish and an equally strident sound, then the new stuff is a go! I personally like the beautiful furniture of the 1880's to 1910's over any of the straight sided POS uprights that are out there today.<G>

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 6:42 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins

Hmmmm. So few uprights are ever rebuilt. Valid point though. Thanks.

Terry Farrell

On Jun 11, 2014, at 9:36 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:

> Terry,
> I was routing out the olde "pin field" in prep of inserting new pin block material in an upright. Standard procedure, in my shop, for uprights.

> I've tried other species of veneer and walnut seems to work the best. More predictable and easy to use. Standard raw veneer thickness and the width can vary according to how loose or tight you need/want to make it. I suck on it so that it becomes pliable, while I'm doing the prep work. (1-2 minutes is adequate)
> Best,
> Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Farrell
> Sent: Jun 11, 2014 6:25 PM
> To: pian...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins
>
> What on earth were you routing on this pinblock with sandpaper shims? And then regarding your walnut (is walnut the ONLY species of wood that works?) shims - 3/16" I presume is the width of the shim. What is the thickness?
>
> Terry Farrell
>
> On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:59 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:
>
> > FWIW, sandpaper is a no-no in my book! I did a pinblock routing and the darned thing had multiple sandpaper shims, epoxy and super glue. The sandpaper caused my $75.00 Router Bits to dull and thus create excessive heat. The heat made the epoxy and CA glue to liquify and fly out all over the place, (ON my body!). Most painful in two ways: 1. the burns. 2. The cost of either sharpening or replacing the bits!
> > I have always used walnut Veneer shims. A 3/16" strip the length of the pinblock hole, wetted with saliva. Screw the tuning pin in and it'll feel like it supposed to.
> > IF the pinblock is cracked, any kind of shim will exacerbate the problem, by wedging the crack and making neighboring pins loose! DAMHIK! That is one of the reasons I've starting using CA for most PSO/POS loose tuning pin problems.
> > Of course YMMV.
> > Best,
> > Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Ron Nossaman]

On 6/11/2014 8:58 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:

>
> For the dollar$ spent it's better than buying any but the most expensive
> modern uprights imo!

I certainly agree with that. Unfortunately, it's not my decision.The
problem isn't our willingness to do the work, it's the owners'
unwillingness to spend the money to have it done anywhere nearly right.
Another iteration of a much repeated refrain.
Ron N

[Don]

Hi Terry,

That lower temperature has to be above the freezing mark. Below freezing Gore Tex becomes a night mare for the wearer, with ice forming inside the fabric. DAMHIK.

 

Regards,
Don Rose

---

From: Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:26:22 PM

Subject: Re: [pianotech] waterproof cover?

[Максим Колесников]

Sorry, you can not compare the use of cardboard and sandpaper. So when using sandpaper ( hammering on of a pin) is partly destroying the bush and wood material of a hole's pinblock.
If you watched carefully my movie then Max  twists pin into a pinblock. Soft cardboard partly destroyed by it's screwing and a wrap wooden part of the hole. Max call it's "foot wrap". Thus the formation of the necessary friction between native pin and  wooden hole in pinblock. A cardboard is slow  dead but a pin again could be tighten
Regards, Max

[Terry Farrell]

Goretex "breathes" at low temperatures - yes, above freezing - but becomes less effective at room temperatures. Fabrics like Goretex can be useful for clothing because moisture evaporates from human skin - we are a source for water vapor - we perspire. Pianos do not perspire. They are not a source for water vapor. Goretex or any such material would not be of any use as a piano cover - unless, of course, there is a water source in the piano - but in that case, just get rid of the water source (did someone put a pan of water in the piano?).

Terry Farrell

[Don]

Hi Terry,

My original comment still stands.

It may be unwise to use a vapor proof cover on a piano equipped with a full DamppChaser system. Water proof is not necessarily vapor proof.

I chose Gore Tex as an example of such a material. If it is unsuitable I'd be glad to know it. So, has anyone tried it out?

 

Regards,
Don Rose

---

From: Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 6:30:33 AM

[Joseph Garrett]

Horse Hockey!

-----Original Message-----
From: Максим Колесников
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 9:46 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Cc: piano...@hotmail.com
Subject: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins



> Sorry, you can not compare the use of cardboard and sandpaper. So when
> using sandpaper ( hammering on of a pin) is partly destroying the bush and
> wood material of a hole's pinblock.

> If you watched carefully my movie then *Max twists pin into a pinblock*.

> Soft cardboard partly destroyed by it's screwing and a wrap wooden part of
> the hole. Max call it's "foot wrap". Thus the formation of the necessary
> friction between native pin and wooden hole in pinblock. A cardboard is
> slow dead but a pin again could be tighten
> Regards, Max
>

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Максим Колесников]

пятница, 13 июня 2014 г., 8:17:32 UTC+5 пользователь Joseph Garrett написал:

Horse Hockey!

-----Original Message-----
From: Максим Колесников
Sent: Jun 11, 2014 9:46 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Cc: piano...@hotmail.com
Subject: [pianotech] Re: loose tuning pins

 Let so. I'm  agree call it's method "water polo" even. However a cardboard is main helper  Max's fix