Vicente Llinares Faventia

[Rob McCall]

Greetings,

I've been approached by a client with one of these... umm... I'm not sure what you call it, but I'm sure there is a monkey involved. :-)

Any how, does anyone have any experience with something like this?  The client wants to restring it, repair it, and make it playable.  It looks like someone refinished the outside, but as usual, they neglected the insides... I'm interested in thoughts about what it would take to restore the inside of this.  Obviously, I see tuning pins and strings, etc. but I'm not sure about the rest. Accessibility, materials, etc?

All relevant thoughts appreciated. Non-relevant thoughts will be judged appropriately.  ;-)

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875

Begin forwarded message:

[Ron Nossaman]

On 12/6/2013 5:59 PM, Rob McCall wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've been approached by a client with one of these... umm... I'm not
> sure what you call it, but I'm sure there is a monkey involved. :-)

Would that be a hurdy gurdy maybe? No monkey, if so, but very similar in
function to the da Vinci piano like instrument mentioned recently.

> Any how, does anyone have any experience with something like this?
> The client wants to restring it, repair it, and make it playable. It
> looks like someone refinished the outside, but as usual, they
> neglected the insides... I'm interested in thoughts about what it
> would take to restore the inside of this. Obviously, I see tuning
> pins and strings, etc. but I'm not sure about the rest.
> Accessibility, materials, etc?
>
> All relevant thoughts appreciated. Non-relevant thoughts will be
> judged appropriately. ;-)

No experience with these specifically, unfortunately, but I've done a
few other weird and wonderful things. Start with about 40 hours and what
it will take to source materials, guess high, and go for it. If it's a
crank street organ, awaiting monkey, I don't think they have strings, do
they? They ought to be vacuum operated by bellows.

Any pictures, maybe? If you get the job, take lots and write up a
Journal article.
Ron N

[Joseph Garrett]

Interesting little guy.<G> Kind of a cross between a music box, piano, orchestrion & lawn ornament.<G>

Looks like the hammer surfaces need to be re-done. I do see a bit of rust, but don't see any evidence of breaking strings. I suspect it's a low tension sort of thing, so sound is going to be different.

You'll need to draw a map as you take it apart so that the other sound effects thangs don't get lost in the shuffle. DAMHIK

 I've done a few similar such and they were interesting projects. I did those on the labor/parts basis and not on a given estimate. Not a big dollar thing, but not a small one either. If I were involved in it I would have preferred to not have to contend with it already refinished, etc. I'd also tell the client that because the cart, (pun intended<G>) got in front of the horse, there would be the possibility of touch up would be needed after the insides were re-whatevered.

That's my take on it.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob McCall
Sent: Dec 6, 2013 3:59 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [pianotech] Vicente Llinares Faventia

Greetings,

I've been approached by a client with one of these... umm... I'm not sure what you call it, but I'm sure there is a monkey involved. :-)

Any how, does anyone have any experience with something like this? The client wants to restring it, repair it, and make it playable. It looks like someone refinished the outside, but as usual, they neglected the insides... I'm interested in thoughts about what it would take to restore the inside of this. Obviously, I see tuning pins and strings, etc. but I'm not sure about the rest. Accessibility, materials, etc?

All relevant thoughts appreciated. Non-relevant thoughts will be judged appropriately. ;-)

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875

Begin forwarded message:

>

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Ron Nossaman]

On 12/6/2013 5:59 PM, Rob McCall wrote:

Shazbat!! Missed the photos altogether! That's it, I'm officially old
and out of warranty.

Make that 80 hours, and rent a monkey.

I always loved these weird jobs. Haven't had one in a long time. Enjoy.
Ron (maybe) N

[Debra Legg]

Very cool!  A little barrel piano (note the pinned cylinder inside).  A major problem with its larger cousins that are nearer full upright in size is tuning stability.  They are just not particularly structurally beefy enough for the duty required of them.  You might check with Ferd Pointer at the Piano Company in Clearwater, FL.  He did work on one of these (or similar) maybe 10 - 15 years ago.  Email contact is: fe...@thepianocompany.com

Deb

[John Ross]

I tuned one that someone had bought in Spain.

It had a drum with pins, like a large version of a music box.

It just had the strings, nothing else. No drum, bell or xylophone.

John Ross

Windsor, Nova Scotia

<HPIM1009-001.JPG><HPIM1001.JPG><HPIM1003.JPG><HPIM1005-001.JPG><HPIM1006-001.JPG><HPIM1007-001.JPG><HPIM1008-001.JPG>

[Larry Fisher RPT]

I'm officially old
and out of warranty.

.... yeah and your use by date is beyond usage.  (no harm intended Ron) (well OK maybe a little)

That looks like fun project until material acquisition becomes a time suck  (kinda like Facebook).  It was all made by hand with primitive tools in it's day so there's hope.  Each broken or missing piece would have to be duplicated from scratch or darn near.  I'd love to hear it when it's done.

I sometimes think I dodged a bullet in my early career when I was turned down for employment fixing things of this sort.  I'm still intrigued however.  Such an old piece and to have survived the decades  ...........   kinda like old technicians that can't find things.

Yeah, it's a busy world out there eh Ron??

Lar

 

[Bruce Browning]

Hammers look like inserts into plastic heads.
No dampers obvious.
Says "Made in Spain".
Looks very simple. Did you open it up for a look?
Restring looks simple enough, and mechanism can't be complex.
Hammers activated by pins on barrel, woodblock struck by mallets on
two hammers in middle, barrel turned by gearbox from handle.
Good luck.

--
Bruce Browning
The Piano Tuner

[Ron Nossaman]

On 12/6/2013 11:51 PM, Larry Fisher RPT wrote:
>
>
> I'm officially old
> and out of warranty.
>

> .... yeah and your use by date is beyond usage. (no harm intended Ron)
> (well OK maybe a little)

I'm not hurt, but I'm plenty used. Sleeping for a week or two wouldn't hurt.

> That looks like fun project until material acquisition becomes a time
> suck (kinda like Facebook). It was all made by hand with primitive
> tools in it's day so there's hope. Each broken or missing piece would
> have to be duplicated from scratch or darn near. I'd love to hear it
> when it's done.

I've made so many things for past player work, that's just part of the
process with these other than mainstream projects. I always enjoyed
strange jobs like this. Even when I didn't make the maximum
$$/nanosecond possible, I found them interesting, fun, and I always
learned something I otherwise wouldn't have. Streamlining familiar
repetitive processes for maximum yield is good business, but the death
of whatever it is inside us that insists there's something interesting
under that rock right over there. I'll keep turning over rocks even if I
have to invent a tool to do it because I physically no longer can, which
means I won't die rich. Probably just wander off looking for my rock
inverter and never be seen again...

Ron N

[Terry Farrell]

I see you've had some good comments. I also say to go for it - fun little project. HOWEVEVER - it does look like there are many of those dreaded 1950s plastic parts in there - make sure they aren't ready to crumble.

Terry Farrell

[Ron Nossaman]

On 12/7/2013 7:01 AM, Terry Farrell wrote:

> I see you've had some good comments. I also say to go for it - fun
> little project. HOWEVEVER - it does look like there are many of those
> dreaded 1950s plastic parts in there - make sure they aren't ready to
> crumble.

Good point. It also looks that a reasonably good woodworker could make a
full set of action parts in under two days even with a fair amount of
flailing about in coming up with processes and setups that work. The
thing looks to me like it was in the toy category when it was new, so
decent replacement parts ought to be an improvement. That is, unless
it's perceived as a precious antique and elimination of those authentic
original plastical parts and parts of parts is sacrilege. Antique
plastic! There's a concept.

Ron N

[Douglas Gregg]

I restored a Greek Laterna similar to this last year. I think there
are only two in the US and about 100 in Greece that work. it did have
a bell too. It had 8 tracks each on the two drums of pins . One was
street dancing music and the other folk songs. Mine had a back strap
and a stand to set it up-no Wheels. Mine needed a complete new hitch
pin block and tuning pin block restoration. It was also twisted
because it had no plate. The barrel with pins was OK.

Doug Gregg

I have lots of photos for anyone interested.

[Douglas Gregg]

I am away from home but will send them late next week. If I forget,
feel free to remind me. Do you have powerpoint?

Doug Gregg

On 12/7/13, Keith McGavern <kamcg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doug Gregg : I have lots of photos for anyone interested.
>

> Doug,
> I'm interested, just send the photos. Don't be concerned with whose who
> might, or might not, be interested.
> Keith
>

[Keith McGavern]

Douglas Gregg wrote:

…  Do you have powerpoint? …

No, I don't. Is that necessary to view the photos?
Keith

[Douglas Gregg]

I can send them separately but the powerpoint allows you to get the
whole show at once. e-mailing them is more limited.

Doug Gregg

[Don]

Hi Keith,

Go and download Apache Open Office. It has a power point "look alike". It is free.

 

Regards,
Don Rose 

---

[Keith McGavern]

Douglas Gregg wrote:

…  powerpoint allows you to get the whole show at once. …

Would what Don Rose mentioned be sufficient? My brother in Canada has sent me several presentations that I assume is in the PowerPoint concept, and I have been able to view those items, and it wasn't with Apache Open Office either. So I should be good to go. Heck, we can try it can't we and see if it works out. I will certainly post the success of doing such a thing, or not.
Tks, Doug and Don.

[Rob McCall]

Hi Doug.

I can't seem to find the related post but if you have photos or a PowerPoint, I can view them all. Send whatever you have and I'll find a way to view it. If it's unrelated to my post, then ignore my request. ;-)

Regards,

Rob McCall


Sent from my iPhone

[Keith McGavern]

Don Rose wrote:

 … download Apache Open Office. It has a power point "look alike". …

Thanks, Don. Actually, I already have that program. It's how I do chapter newsletters. I'll communicate that info to Doug Gregg.
Keith

[Keith McGavern]

Rob McCall wrote:

…  Send whatever you have and I'll find a way to view it. …

I am with you on this Rob. Let Doug send what he has and let's find out if it's a problem or not.
There is something to be learned here for those who are watching.
Keith

[Rob McCall]

Thanks for everyone's help and ideas. I haven't seen the street piano in person yet. Client sent me the photos. As luck would have it, my last client on Friday is a machinist and his specialty is recreating and manufacturing small parts. He has a full 3D set up in his office. Says he can make pretty much anything and he's happy to trade for piano work (He has a c1900 Thompson upright). Something definitely worth exploring for this project. :-)

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875

[Douglas Gregg]

Rob,
The scaling is probably different from a piano. Be sure to follow the
labels on the strings. You may not need to restring it unless strings
are broken or the bass strings are tubby. The one I had was pretty
clean because it is totally closed, perhaps.

This one looks more modern than mine. It looks to have an iron plate.
that is good as the one I had was very unstable and even twisted from
the string pressure.

Be careful with the hammers and drum. Parts are not available. Also,
all the hammer with their springs are retained with one long wire
going through all the centers. Grrrr!
Don't take it apart unless you have to.

Doug Gregg

[Rob McCall]

Doug,

Thanks for all the tips! Hopefully, I'll get a look at it very soon, possibly next week, when I can sit down with the owner and find out what his goals are for this project.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875

[Douglas Gregg]

Don't expect the laterna to be melodious. It is a raucous noise maker mostly.

Doug

On 12/9/13, Rob McCall <r...@mccallpiano.com> wrote:

[Isaac OLEG]

That is always interesting to know people that are good for machining things.

I work fopr that one, that created a fully midified system to install in a player (without modyfing the player, the electronics can be dismounted and the piano will be back to its previous condition)

He had to make a few repairs on the action (leathers/backchecks) . Made me a few tools that are very useful. 

http://youtu.be/Ny0ZREgPkEY

he also made a midified accordion , pipe organs, and a machine to make the rolls from midi files.

[Isaac OLEG]

Le mardi 10 décembre 2013 13:20:54 UTC+1, Isaac OLEG a écrit :

That is always interesting to know people that are good for machining things.

I work fopr that one, that created a fully midified system to install in a player (without modyfing the player, the electronics can be dismounted and the piano will be back to its previous condition)

He had to make a few repairs on the action (leathers/backchecks) . Made me a few tools that are very useful. 

http://youtu.be/Ny0ZREgPkEY

he also made a midified accordion , pipe organs, and a machine to make the rolls from midi files.

Here are a few more videos where you can see the inside :

https://www.youtube.com/user/GPTOmidi/videos

 

[Ron Nossaman]

On 12/9/2013 3:21 PM, Rob McCall wrote:
> Doug,
>
> Thanks for all the tips! Hopefully, I'll get a look at it very soon,
> possibly next week, when I can sit down with the owner and find out
> what his goals are for this project.

Well, if you don't string it, clean it, take it apart, or replace
anything, you're already done. <G>
Ron N

[Douglas Gregg]

Rob,
Using a program called DropSend, I am sending you a 80Mb powerpoint
file on the rebuilding of a Greek Laterna street piano. Yours is a bit
more sophisticated, hopefully and probably won't be in such bad shape
as this one. The laterna was poorly constructed without a plate. That
reduced the weight, so that it could be backpacked. They were also
cranked for many hours on the street and few remain functional. There
were many rebuilding shops in Istanbul in the 30s and 40s. This is the
only functional one that I know of in the US. There is one needing
restoration in Tarpon Springs, FL. Another was sold from upstate NY to
Australia about 5-10 years ago. Some new ones are being made in
Trinidad with Caribbean music drums and a plate. There is also one
Greek guy who will make you a new one for about $10,000. If anyone
else is really interested, I can DropSend the powerpoint to you. It
will take about an hour to download though. I saw one similar to yours
in a museum in St. Augustine last week and they demonstrated it. It
sounded as loud and raucous as this one and was not very pleasant to
listen to. I would not put a great deal of effort into it. Get it to
play, tune it, and that is about all that can be done.

Doug Gregg

On 12/6/13, Rob McCall <r...@mccallpiano.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've been approached by a client with one of these... umm... I'm not sure
> what you call it, but I'm sure there is a monkey involved. :-)
>
> Any how, does anyone have any experience with something like this? The
> client wants to restring it, repair it, and make it playable. It looks like
> someone refinished the outside, but as usual, they neglected the insides...
> I'm interested in thoughts about what it would take to restore the inside of
> this. Obviously, I see tuning pins and strings, etc. but I'm not sure about
> the rest. Accessibility, materials, etc?
>
> All relevant thoughts appreciated. Non-relevant thoughts will be judged

> appropriately. ;-)

>
> Regards,
>
> Rob McCall
>
> McCall Piano Service, LLC
> www.mccallpiano.com
> Murrieta, CA
> 951-698-1875
>

> Begin forwarded message:
>
>>
>
>

[Rob McCall]

Thanks Doug!

Got the file, and at first glance it looks like a lot of work. :-) The file downloaded in about 3 minutes for me. Although, I have 75mb internet. :-) I have to be up at 0300 tomorrow so I'll take a look at it while I'm on the road. I'll be in Philly tomorrow afternoon, NY on Saturday, and back to LAX on Sunday. I should have time during my layovers to get a good look at it.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875