Music desk cloth

[Geoff Sykes]

Gotta replace the tattered cloth on a music desk. Already have the replacement suede that matches what was originally there. Just occurred to me that I'm not sure what the correct glue is to fasten it down. What should I use?

-- GS

[Ralinovsky, Jonathan]

Hi Geoff,

I've used PVC-E in the past; it seemed to hold up well. 

All the best,

Jon

[Joseph Garrett]

First of all, the fabric used, originally was Silk, not suede or vallure or corduroy or ???? However "Grill Cloth" is a good alternative, since it is meant to allow the sound to go THROUGH it.<G> It can be had in many different colors. Black is the most available.<G>

The original glue was Hide Glue, which is easy to remove when doing it over. Any other glue would work, but I don't recommend most of them. The only one that could be used would be Alene's Tacky Glue. It can be removed with heat and water.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Sykes
Sent: Aug 31, 2015 3:55 PM
To: pianotech
Subject: [pianotech] Music desk cloth

Gotta replace the tattered cloth on a music desk. Already have the replacement suede that matches what was originally there. Just occurred to me that I'm not sure what the correct glue is to fasten it down. What should I use?

-- GS

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Geoff Sykes]

Perhaps I was unclear. By cloth on the music desk I was referring to the cloth, or suede like Schaff sells for the job, that goes on the part of the desk that the music rests on. I guess you could also call it the shelf, or tray. Sorry for the confusion.

-- GS

[Ron Nossaman]

On 8/31/2015 6:31 PM, Geoff Sykes wrote:
> Perhaps I was unclear. By cloth on the music desk I was referring to the
> cloth, or suede like Schaff sells for the job, that goes on the part of
> the desk that the music rests on. I guess you could also call it the
> shelf, or tray. Sorry for the confusion.

Joe just naturally assumed you were working on a birdcage. It's a common
mistake.

Ecsaine would be my choice for material, hot hide for glue. What you
have already, same glue. PVCE works fine too.
Ron N

[Geoff Sykes]

The Schaff catalog calls it Suede. I think it's actually Ecsaine. 

-- GS

[Ron Nossaman]

On 8/31/2015 7:06 PM, Geoff Sykes wrote:
> The Schaff catalog calls it Suede. I think it's actually Ecsaine.

From Pianotek, I'd say yes. From Schaff, I don't know. Ecsaine makes
more sense. Easy on the PVCE though. It WILL soak through very easily if
it's Ecsaine so brush it out thin.
Ron N

[Joseph Garrett]

Ah! You mean the Tray that the music sits on. You could use Escaine from Piano Tech. Or, I prefer a good quality, medium thin sueded cow hide. The imitation stuff is crappyola imo. (Except for the Escaine, that is.) Both can be had in various colors.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Sykes

Sent: Aug 31, 2015 4:31 PM
To: pianotech
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Music desk cloth

Perhaps I was unclear. By cloth on the music desk I was referring to the cloth, or suede like Schaff sells for the job, that goes on the part of the desk that the music rests on. I guess you could also call it the shelf, or tray. Sorry for the confusion.

-- GS

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 4:04:47 PM UTC-7, Joseph Garrett wrote:

First of all, the fabric used, originally was Silk, not suede or vallure or corduroy or ???? However "Grill Cloth" is a good alternative, since it is meant to allow the sound to go THROUGH it.<G> It can be had in many different colors. Black is the most available.<G>

The original glue was Hide Glue, which is easy to remove when doing it over. Any other glue would work, but I don't recommend most of them. The only one that could be used would be Alene's Tacky Glue. It can be removed with heat and water.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Sykes
Sent: Aug 31, 2015 3:55 PM
To: pianotech
Subject: [pianotech] Music desk cloth

Gotta replace the tattered cloth on a music desk. Already have the replacement suede that matches what was originally there. Just occurred to me that I'm not sure what the correct glue is to fasten it down. What should I use?

-- GS

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

NOT thinking bird-cages!<G> Just thinking pre-1900 uprights with all that beautiful fret work.<G>
For the trays I use PVC-E, because it sticks better to the Polyester finishes that most of the music trays are finished with and then they put on that nasty fake stuff that sheds all over the world! Almost worse than coal dust.<G>
Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Nossaman <rnos...@cox.net>
>Sent: Aug 31, 2015 4:54 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Music desk cloth
>

>On 8/31/2015 6:31 PM, Geoff Sykes wrote:

>> Perhaps I was unclear. By cloth on the music desk I was referring to the
>> cloth, or suede like Schaff sells for the job, that goes on the part of
>> the desk that the music rests on. I guess you could also call it the
>> shelf, or tray. Sorry for the confusion.
>

[Joseph Garrett]

Ron,
Good to know! Vital information that!
Thanks,

Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Nossaman <rnos...@cox.net>
>Sent: Aug 31, 2015 5:35 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Music desk cloth
>

[da...@piano.plus.com]

One of my customers has a little Asian grand, fairly new, and the music
tray fabric was breaking down into some sticky gloopy substance. It was a
brown-coloured material of some sort.

He asked if I could so anything about it. I obtained a treated (tanned)
goatskin on Ebay. It wasn't expensive, and the 'suede' side was EXACTLY
the right colour! The only challenge was that it wasn't quite long enough
for the whole length of the music tray, so I had to stick it (with PVCE)
as two strips jointed at the middle. The join is hardly noticeable, and
the goatskin suede looks classy. And I still have the rest of the skin
for other uses.

Best regards,

David.

[Jurgen G]

PVC-E is my preferred glue when the music desk is finished with polyester or lacquer.  When I find bare wood after scraping the old felt residue off, I like to use a thin layer of fish glue.  I glue the strip down 6" at a time, making my way from one end to the other.

Many Asian grands require strips 1-3/4" wide.  Some series of Yamahas require strips 43 mm wide.  For anyone interested, I can supply strips of patent suede of the exact width required. 
link:
music desk strips

[Geoff Sykes]

Suddenly occurred to me to ask the best method of taking the old stuff off. Polyester finish.

-- GS

[Ron Nossaman]

On 9/2/2015 4:31 PM, Geoff Sykes wrote:
> Suddenly occurred to me to ask the best method of taking the old stuff off. Polyester finish.
>
> -- GS
>

I don't think I've ever known the best method for doing anything, so
yea, I'd like to know too.
Ron N

[Jurgen G]

First, I would unscrew the music desk rail from the "end plates" (Anyone know the correct term for those?) This makes it much easier to cleanly remove the old stuff and to glue on the new material.
The I use a wood scraper to scrape off the glue residue.  see photo.

[Joseph Garrett]

I usually rip off the main "underlayment" and then scrape the "gunk" that was used to put the original crap on. Heat does not seem to help, but just makes it a really yucky mess. Don't try wallpaper remover either.
I use hook scrapers and old power hacksaw blades, 4" to 6" long, ground for draw scraping. The later is generally my tool of choice for most of this sort of scraping. Easily sharpened and controllable.
Best,

Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Nossaman <rnos...@cox.net>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2015 2:57 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Music desk cloth
>

>On 9/2/2015 4:31 PM, Geoff Sykes wrote:
>> Suddenly occurred to me to ask the best method of taking the old stuff off. Polyester finish.
>>
>> -- GS
>>

[Geoff Sykes]

OK. I've got one of those. Thanks.

-- GS

[da...@piano.plus.com]

> Suddenly occurred to me to ask the best method of taking the old stuff
> off. Polyester finish.
>
> -- GS

WD40 might help to soften and remove the old adhesive. And there are
various proprietory brands of "sticky stuff remover".


Best regards,

David

[Jurgen Goering]

I would be careful with any solvents which
a) could spill on or spread to other parts of the piano and cause problems there 
b) need to be removed or washed off so that the glue will stick and
c) require gloves and possible ventilation. 

Plain old elbow grease and the right tool work well.

regards,

Jurgen Goering

Piano Forte Supply

[da...@piano.plus.com]

> I would be careful with any solvents which
> a) could spill on or spread to other parts of the piano and cause problems
> there
> b) need to be removed or washed off so that the glue will stick and
> c) require gloves and possible ventilation.
>
> Plain old elbow grease and the right tool work well.
>
> regards,
> Jurgen Goering
> Piano Forte Supply

A timeous and fitting safety warning which I should have included! Oh yes
indeed.

I should have said that I envisaged the music tray off the piano. After
all, I have a page on my website about the effects of WD40 on pinblocks,
as evidenced by the Phantom WD40 Sprayer of Olde Glasgowe Towne. WD40 and
the bottles of "Sticky Stuff Remover" you can buy in the shops, are
relatively benign. But of course care is needed.

Another way would be to wait for roadworks to take place nearby, run out
and ask a labourer to attach a scraper to his pneumatic drill........

Best regards,

David.

[Joseph Garrett]

Just scrape it and be done with it.

Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: da...@piano.plus.com
>Sent: Sep 2, 2015 9:48 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Music desk cloth
>

[Isaac Sadigursky]

Hello,Listers !

 For 2 weeks I was disconnected from the List..

 Trying to catch-up..

i would recommend Vinegar as a solvent to remove and then scrape-off the old material,swede and glue.. 

Jurgen sells high end product and he can cut it to the desired size..

 Also, Kawai sells replacement material in 3 colors: Black,Brown and White and it  is SEF-ADHESIVE..

 Just peel off the Wax-Paper from the back and carefully install new material..

 I had done it in my shop and in the field and I try to maintain the inventory..

Hope, this info helps..

 Best wishes to all on a Labor Day !!

 Isaac