Steinway decals

[camp...@gmail.com]

I just received a notice from Decals Unlimited saying that they have lost their licence to sell Steinway decals and will no longer be able to provide them after September of this year.

I did not see any mention of that on the forum although I may have missed it. So FYI and does anyone know if there will be a source after these are gone.

Thanks 

[Joseph Garrett]

Have you talked to Steinway?

Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Wim Blees]

So where are we supposed to get Steinway decals?  There are many different styles and sizes for both the fall board and the soundboard.  Or is this Steinway’s way if cutting off the restoration of old Steinways?  

Sent from my iPhone

[Terry Farrell]

Well Wim, except for those restored in NY at the factory - otherwise it wouldn’t be a REAL Steinway.

You know, STEINWAY, the piano manufacturer that insists on all their pianos being 100% pure Steinway, or else it isn’t a Steinway anymore.

You know, STEINWAY, the piano manufacturer that at points in history have installed Renner hammers, Renner action parts, Kluge Keys and Kelly plates in their NEW pianos. You know the one?

Terry Farrell

[Joseph Garrett]

insufficient data.<G> Why ask me? I asked the original poster, (name omitted), a question, but have not received an answer as yet.

Best,

Joe

[camp...@gmail.com]

My understanding at this point is that they will not be available as Steinway wants all of them for themselves and wants all the restorations to go through them.

My suggestion for any of you, oh so savvy business guys, out there is to close out your retirement accounts, buy up all Decals Unlimited remaining stock, and then bootleg them out of the back of your car.

[camp...@gmail.com]

...and as I don't spend too much time here anyway and have no vested interest in cultivating any relationships I will say what you have all been thinking for a long, long time and that is, here it comes, the day I get banned from the forum...Go Fuck Yourself Garrett!

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:54:58 AM UTC-7, camp...@gmail.com wrote:

[Joseph Garrett]

???,

Ya know, it'd be really great if you'd SIGN your posts!

And, I doubt any one really cares if the bling is available or not. I'm a rebuilder and I most certainly don't. Some of my clients might, but when told the situation, I'm sure they wouldn't care either.

Sigh,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: camp...@gmail.com
Sent: Jun 6, 2018 11:08 AM
To: pianotech

Subject: [pianotech] Re: Steinway decals

My understanding at this point is that they will not be available as Steinway wants all of them for themselves and wants all the restorations to go through them.

My suggestion for any of you, oh so savvy business guys, out there is to close out your retirement accounts, buy up all Decals Unlimited remaining stock, and then bootleg them out of the back of your car.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:54:58 AM UTC-7, camp...@gmail.com wrote:

I just received a notice from Decals Unlimited saying that they have lost their licence to sell Steinway decals and will no longer be able to provide them after September of this year.

I did not see any mention of that on the forum although I may have missed it. So FYI and does anyone know if there will be a source after these are gone.

Thanks 

[Joseph Garrett]

??

Whoever you are, you most certainly have stepped over the boundries. I wouldn't even use such language on this forum.

What a jerk thou must be.

Joe

I'm wondering where our webmaster is in this?

-----Original Message-----
From: camp...@gmail.com
Sent: Jun 6, 2018 11:12 AM
To: pianotech
Subject: [pianotech] Re: Steinway decals

...and as I don't spend too much time here anyway and have no vested interest in cultivating any relationships I will say what you have all been thinking for a long, long time and that is, here it comes, the day I get banned from the forum...Go Fuck Yourself Garrett!

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:54:58 AM UTC-7, camp...@gmail.com wrote:

I just received a notice from Decals Unlimited saying that they have lost their licence to sell Steinway decals and will no longer be able to provide them after September of this year.

I did not see any mention of that on the forum although I may have missed it. So FYI and does anyone know if there will be a source after these are gone.

Thanks 

[Will Truitt]

Campmac, with language like that, it is best that you go elsewhere permanently.

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of camp...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:13 PM
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [pianotech] Re: Steinway decals

 

...and as I don't spend too much time here anyway and have no vested interest in cultivating any relationships I will say what you have all been thinking for a long, long time and that is, here it comes, the day I get banned from the forum...Go Fuck Yourself Garrett!

[Will Truitt]

Hi Joe:

 

I think there are circumstances where they might care more than you think.  I think this aimed most directly at rebuilders who buy a Steinway “shell” and do a full tilt rebuild, including refinishing.  It’s got a new soundboard, new action, fabulous refinishing job.  Asking 50 K for it, and it is worth it musically.  But then the customer sees the naked fallboard with no STEINWAY decal on it.  They want that name on it.  The name should be on it.  Can’t get it though.  

 

If that is what Steinway is doing, it is completely shabby.  Decals Unlimited could and probably would get a license to make the decals, for a fee of course.  If Steinway is not willing to offer that to Decals Unlimited and others, it is purely anti-competitive.

 

We have been able to buy Steinway decals from many sources for as long as I have been in the business, which is 44 years.   So why now do they suddenly care?   A shrinking piano economy where the pie is smaller, perhaps?

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Joseph Garrett
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:04 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

[Wim Blees]

Campmac. It’s a shame that your short fuse resorts you to making this statement on this forum. I have disagreements with Joe, but they are professional disagreements.  Personally he’s a great guy who saved my butt on quite a few occasions.  

Your raunchy demeanor will eventually cause you to loose customers, if they haven’t already.  I suggest you not only remove yourself from this list, but get out of the business altogether.  You’re giving all of us a bad name. 

Shame on you. 

Wim. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Garrett]

Will,

I completely agree. No sense to the problem being created by Steinway. It would be nice if a "statement" would be made, but I suspect that is beyond them.

Best,

Joe

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:54:58 AM UTC-7, camp...@gmail.com wrote:

I just received a notice from Decals Unlimited saying that they have lost their licence to sell Steinway decals and will no longer be able to provide them after September of this year.

I did not see any mention of that on the forum although I may have missed it. So FYI and does anyone know if there will be a source after these are gone.

Thanks 

 

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

gpianoworks.com

 

[Michael Spreeman]

Music Trades published an article in October 2017 about Steinway going after non-authorized dealers and rebuilders.  

The decal licensing, a little bit like the “authorized Steinway parts” thing, is just the next step to their wanting to diminish freelance rebuilding of Steinway pianos.  (IMO). 

Quoting from the article:

“Steinway & Sons has launched a new program to protect its wold-famous brand against infringement and misrepresentation. Spearheaded by Jen Wang, Steinway’s senior vice president and general counsel, and Todd Sanders, Vice President of sales and marketing, the program will help Steinway take action against anyone who uses its marks or brand assets without permission, or makes false or misleading claims about Steinway or its pianos.”

“The most common violation we’ve seen has been non-authorized piano dealers or rebuilders using our marks without our permission, said Sanders.”

They have asked their authorized dealers to to monitor this and Wang and Sanders will review each report to determine if the alleged violation is actionable, and if so, what action should be taken.

Full article here: 

https://mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?i=440067&article_id=2887787&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5#

Michael Spreeman

[Joseph Garrett]

Michael,

Sigh. :-( You'd think they could, at least, hire someone to edit their "declaration"! What a bunch of garbage.

I've seen their "authorized rebuilds". Was not impressed, but rather chagrined.

BTW, I have seen many Steinways w/o soundboard decals, straight from the factory. Must have been an oversight, or...perhaps,...the soundboard was from somewhere else?<G>

[Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft]

So what’s the next move in their infinite wisdom, no more Steinway parts? Maybe an opportunity for a Chinese company to start making decals and selling them on the internet.

Al

High Point, NC

[David Renaud]

It baffles me somewhat.  

Restring and repair/shim a Steinway soundboard, and can not put a new decal? 

How is the infringing anything, it is what it is, is what it was,  replacing what is.

Perhaps with Mapes strings, same as Steinway, Stienways supplier, not from Steinway. 

Had a client that was so sold on "must have a Steinway parts" he refused 

Renner Steinway parts. Hamburg uses Renner steinway parts do they not?

They are considered superior by many, are they not?  

   An older Steinway has lighter hammers that can not be had from Steinway,

 yet a client insist on the modern heavier hammers. The catalogue even suggests

an alternative might be in order....and its "not a Steinway"

 Its just a hammer.....Analogy....Imagine a car had to have Toyota tires, or its not a Toyota, a

and they just so happen happen to NOT make winter tires, 

but too bad, risk your families life in winter, even though its wrong, 

because it must be Toyota's summer tires.....in winter.

    Steinway does not make lightweight hammers, they are simply 

wrong on a 1901 A.  Their arguments on some of this baffle me, 

and in my opinion, rather then protect quality actually in fact impede quality.

   Rant over'

   As I crawl back into my cave and stare into the Abyss. 

   Cheers

   Dave Renaud

[Arthur]

How about someone making 

Sternway & Sons decals??   I once bought a Hormilton watch.  

Sent from my iPhone

[GR Horst]

It would seem that Steinway is going too far if they are trying to control rebuilders. If this is ever challenged, it may not hold up.

As someone else mentioned, if I rebuild the motor on a Ford Mustang, it is still a Ford Mustang and I can do what I want with the car and its insignia. Note however that Mercedes makes it difficult for independent repair shops to get parts and some service information. So others have tried similar actions. But trying to stop techs from rebuilding Steinways will fail whether legal action is necessitated or not.

my 2-cents

GR

 - - - - -

[Patrick Draine]

It's just a decal, folks! If they were trying to make all rebuilders grind away every mention of Steinway from the plate (and pull brass lettering from the fallboard) that would actually be a serious pain.

Patrick

[Terry Farrell]

I have what I think is an interesting train of thought regarding rebuilding/remanufacturing pianos - Steinway or whatever.

A piano is a performance instrument. A race car is a performance vehicle. Where does a professional (or even an aggressive amateur) race car driver buy his (or her!) car from? The Chevy dealer? Maybe a Corvette for the Indy or Daytona 500? If course not. So probably the Lamborghini dealer - right? Ummm, no. They will go to a private small shop and have a custom made car for them to race with.

I sat in a doctor’s office waiting room one day, well, waiting. Poor choice of magazines, so I flipped through a Road and Track. Read an article that described buying a new Lamborghini or Maserati or something similar. It described taking this new car and tearing apart the engine to balance and blueprint it. And of course add some high-permance stuff to the engine. Then to the suspension - redo that. And on and on. Bottom line is that the fastest, highest performance cars available from a non-small-shop manufacturer is NOT the highest performance available. You will only get that at the small - they really know what the heck they are doing - shop with the excellent reputation in the field.

Do you really think it is not the same with pianos? Do you really think that an established manufacturer that is a PUBLIC COMPANY who answers to its stock holders will produce the highest performance piano in the world - every piano? So why do race car drivers buy a car from the small, top reputation high performance shop rather than the dealer when the top concert pianists mostly buy from the dealer? IMHO, it is because race car drivers generally have good knowledge of the mechanics of the cars they drive, AND they have there own maintenance crews. Concert pianist generally don’t know much about building a piano and don’t travel with their pit crew.

Bottom line is that any large(ish) manufacturer - especially if it is a public company - will build their product to a certain target quality/performance level - their “nitch” - and not go beyond - it just wouldn’t be as profitable. If you build the highest performance piano and charge accordingly, you will sell some pianos to the enlightened, but only a few. If you the performance down a notch, lower the price, add a healthy dose of marketing, you will sell MANY more pianos - some to the demanding pianists, because your pianos are pretty good (at least some of them), but mostly to those who just want to buy a piano with your name on it.

What percentage of high-end pianos are actually sold to high-end pianists? I don’t know what it is, but from what I observe, it is low. IMHO, that is why they can still sell so many pianos. Also, Steinway’s dealer piano lending/renting for professional concerts along with the trained concert technician goes a very long way toward why some high percentage of concert pianists are “Steinway Artists” - the alternative is too much hit-or-miss. And I not criticizing their program - it is a good thing I think. But too bad most concert pianists can’t see past this marketing thing.

Oh well, I could go on, but I refrain. End of rant…..

Terry Farrell

[Terry Farrell]

Personally, I don’t really like decals and don’t put them on unless a customer really wants one.

Terry Farrell

[Terry Farrell]

All the decal you need…...

On Jun 7, 2018, at 9:42 AM, Patrick Draine <jpdr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Joe DeFazio]

Now *that’s* a bass cutoff!

Joe DeFazio
Pittsburgh

[Joseph Garrett]

Which equals a well balanced soundboard.
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe DeFazio <defazi...@verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 7, 2018 8:43 AM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Re: Steinway decals
>