Nobility Joy part 2
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Simone Roberts
Mar 30, 2007, 10:14:46 AM3/30/07
to PHSC
What do you damn well please? I
suppose if you look at much of my life, I really have been doing what I
most wanted to do, often like my mother, I have found ways to deny that
truth and convince myself what I was doing was "for" someone else. I
emotionally nurtured my children because I truly love doing it...it was
something I was good at...but since it wasn't okay to really love my
life, to "not suffer" I couldn't say "I am raising them the way I want
to because it makes me happy." I said, "I am raising them the way is
best for them and whatever personal cost to me."
Gads. How awful, to be having a good life and not be able to know it. This is a deep thing. It happens though. To lots of us. The stories we tell ourselves are just as powerful, even more sometimes, than the fact of our existence.
Raising children I know nothing about, not having done it. I've seen the changes it brings in my friends who are starting families, and I've heard one or two worry that "I'm just not the woman I was before", and I wonder. It's possible to truly love what is also a sacrifice and a duty. It's one we get to take on voluntarily (in the best case), but that needn't invalidate a sense of loss. I wonder how much does it feel like and either/or choice..... Which is to say, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
So what do I damn well please? What a great question for my new birthday year...In that answer might be some clues. Is this aloneness your enemy? Why? Must you reject it? Don't get confused by "aloneness" it isn't really the right word...its a marker...and of course I don't reject aloneness...I have a history of abandonment beginning at birth with a fair amount of betrayal thrown in.
So, suffering=nobility isn't just something God wants, it's something people have done an ace job of reinforcing for you. For many.
All you say here is true and I have had experience with all of it...and...it probably is true that I value connection, especially emotional connection more than many do. I need a healthy dose of both in my life. Emotional/spiritual connection at the level I am capable of is simply harder to come by in this world...or at least it is for me...and I think I have a capacity for it and love of it that is vast.
I think you do. I've never felt less than that around you. You have a stillness that's reassuring. It's hard because the spaces where people will talk about these things and be these people aren't as numerous or public as Starbucks. The world still runs on the Pain is Good, Got It Alone model, and if you're not running on that model anymore, there actually are fewer people you can be around and be healthy. What I have found, and I'll be you know this already, is that while the shape of the person I have taken does not let me have hordes of company, it has let me have very good company with people who are friends to my heart, who teach me, open me up.
<snipped out some stuff of mine from a previous post>
I wonder about impressing and how it's connected to suffering for you. I like making an impression, I really do, and lots of what I do in life is meant to make an impression. But, some of it isn't ultimately about Me, but about what other people can do with what I make or offer. That's not always hard. And wouldn't me or anyone else or God want you to be enjoying what you're doing, tending to yourself? Simone, this is the point, in my very young psyche...or in the oldet part of my psyche God does not want me to be enjoying what I am dong or tending to myself. Now, I rationally know that is foolish and it is not God...that girlhood God is far less loving than I am! However, there is this deep pattern in my life...of valuing the tragic...Gilligan asks "why do we trust the tragic love story" What a question...my simple answer is I was taught it would get me into heaven.
It would get you loved. That's what the tragic love story promises women: this is the way and the price of love, it hurts, rejoice in the pain. And you, like any of us, will do a lot for what looks like love.
If you're always all tapped out from the struggle and sacrifice, what do you have to be generous with? Luckily, I wasn't raised Catholic. And my God, in so far as that's a personality-type-god (which is not all that much) does not want me to suffer more than necessary. That is, this world has tests in it, it just does, therefore I don't need to create more of them for myself, at least not on purpose. What's in the maze? What's wrong with being kind to that bulb and looking for a place for it grow more easily, with cooperating with the earth itself in that way? Seems to me a very clever way of working with what's present instead of forcing something. And you are right and in that moment I was proud of me...I realized something was truly shifting in me that not only was that my choice but I was proud of the choice and new what it meant...that I was slowly beginning to trust life...to learn to allow...to let it be easy. Simone there are very different voices in my pysche...the one that values the tragic over pleasure...suffering over joy...is simply much older and has much deeper nuerological patterns in my pysche and these don't uproot themselves with new information...only with repeated new experiences...
Neurology is such a pain! ;-) So, we need a campaign for your birthday year: Lots of Repeated Good Experiences of Pleasure. Fits the bill: it's hard to do (retrain the mind), so it's noble; AND it will involve having pleasure and learning to value it. Like finding the place for the bulb in the garden -- real conscious homework.
Hmmmm......
And do you think they did not have dark nights and struggles and fears and aloneness? No...not at all...I'm sure Whitman had them and it gave him the voice he writes from...I said that because Whitman's writing speaks to the intensity with which I love this world and dont' want to miss it consumed with unnecessary suffering....
Ahhhh, trust me to misunderstand sometimes.
Here's a question: are you Consumed? I'm asking because when I'm with you, you don't seem the Queen of Depression For No Reason. Now, hey, my dark bits don't show on the outside all the time either, so this is NOT a challenge. It's to ask, is that really back there all the time? It doesn't sound like it. I mean, unnecessary suffering may just be getting more than its fair share of attention from you these days.
I wonder what is your ideal for this life? For you? What is the place of suffering in it? There will need to be one, but being the whole context and purpose of your being, of course, ... well, no.
Really? Do you think so? I doubt it myself. I think they didn't write about it much, I think they chose where to focus. Maybe the opposite of trying is working with what's present. What does trying mean here to you? I think that sometimes the opposite of trying is acceptance...a deep acceptance of whatever life is bringing...often my trying it a kind of reaching for or attempt to influence life in a particular direction...which I actually think is hugely important on this planet...I think earth is a place to create in...it may well be its primary purpose in terms of an experience...we are here to create...Is it really a matter of trying or not trying? Probably not...for me "trying" often turns into struggle...struggle seems to be opposite pleasure...or maybe it is about am I struggling against reality or against something or am I struggling for something...YES...that is a huge difference...when I am struggling against something I am fundamentally in fear...I don't' want this thing to happen...it will be bad or sad or whatever...but that is about avoidance...which in my body comes through as some kind of constriction...it comes from scarcity
This may not be the direction you were going, but I don't think we get pick our lessons. I do think influence goes both ways, though. We get to build the kind of life-soul we know we're meant to have, AND the Cosmos gets to hand us the lessons required to build it. Some of those are incredibly hard, impeding lessons. (This theory does not cover intentional evil done to us by others, by the way.) How can we learn a lesson before we accept its necessity? But it's the lesson, not the suffering, that's necessary. Every time I have tried to avoid a lesson, it has come back to bite me in the ass. For me if the struggle has a purpose, a possible end, as in a lesson, then it's still suffering, but it's not insufferable, not an unfair burden. Neither suffering nor pleasure can be a permanent condition.
I think the fear and the desire to avoid is natural. We are animals, and we associate all pain with a possible threat to our lives. It's instinct. It's very real. But, being human animals, we have memory to. Some of those memories are of coming through previous lessons/suffering/pain/fear and coming through just fine, thank you very much. Maybe a little worse for wear, but that's where wisdom comes from. Right? Am I just telling you what you know? I'm not sure how I became aware of it (certain is too strong, but aware) that I've already been through a good number of lessons, many of them soul-crushing, and what I know is that I'm plenty strong and resourceful and befriended enough to get through whatever's still coming.
So have you, Nance. To know you is to know that about you. You have what Blake calls experience. This is not altogether a bad thing.
Pleasure...Keats: I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination. Pleasure: Italy....I must love the Italian people because they do so love pleasure and joy. I will never forget the transformation in my children a decade ago going from France to Italy...I had the idea that the French were devoted to pleasure...but I did not find that to be true...maybe devoted to beauty...but not pleasure. I wonder if you N was right ...maybe you have to have something of the irrational to experience pleasure at all. I know that you can cross that line into hedonism pretty easily...or actually I know that is the fear with most of us, but we live in a society filled with addictions...of all kinds...and in some way aren't they all a stay against an armoring against pleasure...really against life?
Creation, creativity, imagination, Italy. We're shifting registers here. This is a sketch of your ideal. And yes, I think those addictions/hedonisms are armor against life. I think we're convinced that we can't take it -- the full on of life. And I Know that's a societal/cultural training thing because there are people who break out of that who don't go mad and don't implode. (There are some who do... and they are held up as examples for not opening up to life.) I think the French are devoted to beauty, and to refinement. Their pleasure, generally speaking, is more on the refined side. Both allow themselves pleasurable things: fresh flowers bought on the way home from work, a nice sit in a park at lunch, time to stroll, but the French don't go about singing in the street. ;-) Neither one lives in a festival to total happiness all the time, but many of them are much better at pleasing themselves and being pleasing than we are. We are a culture of work. They work, but that's not the center of life and the proof of one's value. From N's point of view, you could say we are German (though that's not really fair to the Germans... heehheh). Yes, that's against life. Or at least it's against the fullness of it.
But, life includes hardness too. Italy, just one political example, only admitted that a woman could be sexually assaulted while wearing blue jeans in like 1992 or something. Before that, the ruling was that a rapist could not get the jeans off of the woman without her consent. An rather odd definition of consent. Every place and people has their shadow.
I think the thing is that until we're sure on our feet that we can work with the hardness, opening up to the full goodness of life is very hard. Because that full goodness is unfamiliar -- it seems scary and hard too.
<snip>
I think that in the face of uncertainty I expect the tragic....and while I continue to work to undo this old belief system in my being...I also know it is there...often the voice of ego...the rational voice warning me to 'stay away from something' that the world is dangerous and I could get hurt...and all that is true...AND...it is know way to really be alive.
Sure. We all have that expectation. I mean, things can always go wrong. But, they can always go right too. And we are one of the factors in that math. One of them, sometimes not the determining one, but one of them. And we do, because we are relatively healthy, stable, privileged people, get use our abilities to mitigate the bad when that's the only things will go.
I don't know how to feel the unfamiliar and the uncertain as always friendly or happy or pleasurable. I do know, after the living I've done so far, that I can take it, that I can work with it, that I can call for help when I need it. You know, the second most famous thing that N said was, "that which does not kill me makes me stronger." One way to read that is that all the suffering that's come before Can Mean that you are more ready than ever for what's to come, whether suffering or pleasure. Half the trickN also said that the most important word was "yes." Yes to pleasure, yes to suffering, yes to being fully. Now, taken too far, out of balance, that Yes can get pretty self-destructive, but one needn't do that. Sure, you can get hurt, again. But, has that ever completely broken you? No. If it had, you and I wouldn't be in this conversation trying to imagine and live toward how to accept pleasure and our own powers of creativity.
I'm going to have to stop here for today. I'm sorry I took so long to get back. More soon.
Simone
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Terror is only the beginning of beauty,
Simone
ti anam cara
sisa...@gmail.com
http://kalidharmashaktidharma.blogspot.com
"Somewhere in the world there is a treasure that has no value to anyone but you, and a secret that is meaningless to everyone except you, and a frontier that possesses a revelation only you know how to exploit. Go in search of those things. Somewhere in the world there is a person who could ask you the precise question you need to hear in order to catalyze the next phase of your evolution. Do what's necessary to run into that person." ---- Rob Breszny
Gads. How awful, to be having a good life and not be able to know it. This is a deep thing. It happens though. To lots of us. The stories we tell ourselves are just as powerful, even more sometimes, than the fact of our existence.
Raising children I know nothing about, not having done it. I've seen the changes it brings in my friends who are starting families, and I've heard one or two worry that "I'm just not the woman I was before", and I wonder. It's possible to truly love what is also a sacrifice and a duty. It's one we get to take on voluntarily (in the best case), but that needn't invalidate a sense of loss. I wonder how much does it feel like and either/or choice..... Which is to say, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
So what do I damn well please? What a great question for my new birthday year...In that answer might be some clues. Is this aloneness your enemy? Why? Must you reject it? Don't get confused by "aloneness" it isn't really the right word...its a marker...and of course I don't reject aloneness...I have a history of abandonment beginning at birth with a fair amount of betrayal thrown in.
So, suffering=nobility isn't just something God wants, it's something people have done an ace job of reinforcing for you. For many.
All you say here is true and I have had experience with all of it...and...it probably is true that I value connection, especially emotional connection more than many do. I need a healthy dose of both in my life. Emotional/spiritual connection at the level I am capable of is simply harder to come by in this world...or at least it is for me...and I think I have a capacity for it and love of it that is vast.
I think you do. I've never felt less than that around you. You have a stillness that's reassuring. It's hard because the spaces where people will talk about these things and be these people aren't as numerous or public as Starbucks. The world still runs on the Pain is Good, Got It Alone model, and if you're not running on that model anymore, there actually are fewer people you can be around and be healthy. What I have found, and I'll be you know this already, is that while the shape of the person I have taken does not let me have hordes of company, it has let me have very good company with people who are friends to my heart, who teach me, open me up.
<snipped out some stuff of mine from a previous post>
I wonder about impressing and how it's connected to suffering for you. I like making an impression, I really do, and lots of what I do in life is meant to make an impression. But, some of it isn't ultimately about Me, but about what other people can do with what I make or offer. That's not always hard. And wouldn't me or anyone else or God want you to be enjoying what you're doing, tending to yourself? Simone, this is the point, in my very young psyche...or in the oldet part of my psyche God does not want me to be enjoying what I am dong or tending to myself. Now, I rationally know that is foolish and it is not God...that girlhood God is far less loving than I am! However, there is this deep pattern in my life...of valuing the tragic...Gilligan asks "why do we trust the tragic love story" What a question...my simple answer is I was taught it would get me into heaven.
It would get you loved. That's what the tragic love story promises women: this is the way and the price of love, it hurts, rejoice in the pain. And you, like any of us, will do a lot for what looks like love.
If you're always all tapped out from the struggle and sacrifice, what do you have to be generous with? Luckily, I wasn't raised Catholic. And my God, in so far as that's a personality-type-god (which is not all that much) does not want me to suffer more than necessary. That is, this world has tests in it, it just does, therefore I don't need to create more of them for myself, at least not on purpose. What's in the maze? What's wrong with being kind to that bulb and looking for a place for it grow more easily, with cooperating with the earth itself in that way? Seems to me a very clever way of working with what's present instead of forcing something. And you are right and in that moment I was proud of me...I realized something was truly shifting in me that not only was that my choice but I was proud of the choice and new what it meant...that I was slowly beginning to trust life...to learn to allow...to let it be easy. Simone there are very different voices in my pysche...the one that values the tragic over pleasure...suffering over joy...is simply much older and has much deeper nuerological patterns in my pysche and these don't uproot themselves with new information...only with repeated new experiences...
Neurology is such a pain! ;-) So, we need a campaign for your birthday year: Lots of Repeated Good Experiences of Pleasure. Fits the bill: it's hard to do (retrain the mind), so it's noble; AND it will involve having pleasure and learning to value it. Like finding the place for the bulb in the garden -- real conscious homework.
Hmmmm......
O....I need Whitman right now, or Neruda...I need someone who is
wildly in love with this place...so in love he or she is not
"trying"...for me the birth of pleasure will have everything to do
with the cessation of trying...and I'm not really sure what I just
said or mean...I do know the 'trying' is wearing me out...what is the
opposite of "trying" ?
And do you think they did not have dark nights and struggles and fears and aloneness? No...not at all...I'm sure Whitman had them and it gave him the voice he writes from...I said that because Whitman's writing speaks to the intensity with which I love this world and dont' want to miss it consumed with unnecessary suffering....
Ahhhh, trust me to misunderstand sometimes.
Here's a question: are you Consumed? I'm asking because when I'm with you, you don't seem the Queen of Depression For No Reason. Now, hey, my dark bits don't show on the outside all the time either, so this is NOT a challenge. It's to ask, is that really back there all the time? It doesn't sound like it. I mean, unnecessary suffering may just be getting more than its fair share of attention from you these days.
I wonder what is your ideal for this life? For you? What is the place of suffering in it? There will need to be one, but being the whole context and purpose of your being, of course, ... well, no.
Really? Do you think so? I doubt it myself. I think they didn't write about it much, I think they chose where to focus. Maybe the opposite of trying is working with what's present. What does trying mean here to you? I think that sometimes the opposite of trying is acceptance...a deep acceptance of whatever life is bringing...often my trying it a kind of reaching for or attempt to influence life in a particular direction...which I actually think is hugely important on this planet...I think earth is a place to create in...it may well be its primary purpose in terms of an experience...we are here to create...Is it really a matter of trying or not trying? Probably not...for me "trying" often turns into struggle...struggle seems to be opposite pleasure...or maybe it is about am I struggling against reality or against something or am I struggling for something...YES...that is a huge difference...when I am struggling against something I am fundamentally in fear...I don't' want this thing to happen...it will be bad or sad or whatever...but that is about avoidance...which in my body comes through as some kind of constriction...it comes from scarcity
This may not be the direction you were going, but I don't think we get pick our lessons. I do think influence goes both ways, though. We get to build the kind of life-soul we know we're meant to have, AND the Cosmos gets to hand us the lessons required to build it. Some of those are incredibly hard, impeding lessons. (This theory does not cover intentional evil done to us by others, by the way.) How can we learn a lesson before we accept its necessity? But it's the lesson, not the suffering, that's necessary. Every time I have tried to avoid a lesson, it has come back to bite me in the ass. For me if the struggle has a purpose, a possible end, as in a lesson, then it's still suffering, but it's not insufferable, not an unfair burden. Neither suffering nor pleasure can be a permanent condition.
I think the fear and the desire to avoid is natural. We are animals, and we associate all pain with a possible threat to our lives. It's instinct. It's very real. But, being human animals, we have memory to. Some of those memories are of coming through previous lessons/suffering/pain/fear and coming through just fine, thank you very much. Maybe a little worse for wear, but that's where wisdom comes from. Right? Am I just telling you what you know? I'm not sure how I became aware of it (certain is too strong, but aware) that I've already been through a good number of lessons, many of them soul-crushing, and what I know is that I'm plenty strong and resourceful and befriended enough to get through whatever's still coming.
So have you, Nance. To know you is to know that about you. You have what Blake calls experience. This is not altogether a bad thing.
Pleasure...Keats: I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination. Pleasure: Italy....I must love the Italian people because they do so love pleasure and joy. I will never forget the transformation in my children a decade ago going from France to Italy...I had the idea that the French were devoted to pleasure...but I did not find that to be true...maybe devoted to beauty...but not pleasure. I wonder if you N was right ...maybe you have to have something of the irrational to experience pleasure at all. I know that you can cross that line into hedonism pretty easily...or actually I know that is the fear with most of us, but we live in a society filled with addictions...of all kinds...and in some way aren't they all a stay against an armoring against pleasure...really against life?
Creation, creativity, imagination, Italy. We're shifting registers here. This is a sketch of your ideal. And yes, I think those addictions/hedonisms are armor against life. I think we're convinced that we can't take it -- the full on of life. And I Know that's a societal/cultural training thing because there are people who break out of that who don't go mad and don't implode. (There are some who do... and they are held up as examples for not opening up to life.) I think the French are devoted to beauty, and to refinement. Their pleasure, generally speaking, is more on the refined side. Both allow themselves pleasurable things: fresh flowers bought on the way home from work, a nice sit in a park at lunch, time to stroll, but the French don't go about singing in the street. ;-) Neither one lives in a festival to total happiness all the time, but many of them are much better at pleasing themselves and being pleasing than we are. We are a culture of work. They work, but that's not the center of life and the proof of one's value. From N's point of view, you could say we are German (though that's not really fair to the Germans... heehheh). Yes, that's against life. Or at least it's against the fullness of it.
But, life includes hardness too. Italy, just one political example, only admitted that a woman could be sexually assaulted while wearing blue jeans in like 1992 or something. Before that, the ruling was that a rapist could not get the jeans off of the woman without her consent. An rather odd definition of consent. Every place and people has their shadow.
I think the thing is that until we're sure on our feet that we can work with the hardness, opening up to the full goodness of life is very hard. Because that full goodness is unfamiliar -- it seems scary and hard too.
<snip>
I think that in the face of uncertainty I expect the tragic....and while I continue to work to undo this old belief system in my being...I also know it is there...often the voice of ego...the rational voice warning me to 'stay away from something' that the world is dangerous and I could get hurt...and all that is true...AND...it is know way to really be alive.
Sure. We all have that expectation. I mean, things can always go wrong. But, they can always go right too. And we are one of the factors in that math. One of them, sometimes not the determining one, but one of them. And we do, because we are relatively healthy, stable, privileged people, get use our abilities to mitigate the bad when that's the only things will go.
I don't know how to feel the unfamiliar and the uncertain as always friendly or happy or pleasurable. I do know, after the living I've done so far, that I can take it, that I can work with it, that I can call for help when I need it. You know, the second most famous thing that N said was, "that which does not kill me makes me stronger." One way to read that is that all the suffering that's come before Can Mean that you are more ready than ever for what's to come, whether suffering or pleasure. Half the trickN also said that the most important word was "yes." Yes to pleasure, yes to suffering, yes to being fully. Now, taken too far, out of balance, that Yes can get pretty self-destructive, but one needn't do that. Sure, you can get hurt, again. But, has that ever completely broken you? No. If it had, you and I wouldn't be in this conversation trying to imagine and live toward how to accept pleasure and our own powers of creativity.
I'm going to have to stop here for today. I'm sorry I took so long to get back. More soon.
Simone
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Terror is only the beginning of beauty,
Simone
ti anam cara
sisa...@gmail.com
http://kalidharmashaktidharma.blogspot.com
"Somewhere in the world there is a treasure that has no value to anyone but you, and a secret that is meaningless to everyone except you, and a frontier that possesses a revelation only you know how to exploit. Go in search of those things. Somewhere in the world there is a person who could ask you the precise question you need to hear in order to catalyze the next phase of your evolution. Do what's necessary to run into that person." ---- Rob Breszny
Nancy Wonders Dearing
Apr 1, 2007, 10:20:37 AM4/1/07
to ph...@googlegroups.com
Dear Simone and Martha,
I have read, valued and appreciated all that you offered here....I am on the road and in the middle of college visits, and trying to get caught up with reports...at best it will be next weekend before I can respond to this...and since I am also getting ready to visit my daughter in London and do a bit of traveling it may be that I won’t really be back in this conversation until my return, after April 23rd.
That said, I wanted you Simone, to know that the green font did not come thru...what showed up on my screen was the blue and black...since I can follow the conversation...because it was just your voice and mine...that wasn’t a problem for me but could be confusing to others if it showed up the same way for them. Also, I have a really dear friend who is a spiritual coach, that I wanted to invite into this conversation as well...I am sending a link to where you can read about him and see what you all think...
I do hope I don’t have to wait weeks to be back in this...it is indeed a rich conversation...
For Vid: This http://isc.integralinstitute.org/Public/static/vidyuddeva.htm is
also a compact bio for me... and it is in my relationship as a
integral spiritual teacher for the integral spiritual center.
nance
I have read, valued and appreciated all that you offered here....I am on the road and in the middle of college visits, and trying to get caught up with reports...at best it will be next weekend before I can respond to this...and since I am also getting ready to visit my daughter in London and do a bit of traveling it may be that I won’t really be back in this conversation until my return, after April 23rd.
That said, I wanted you Simone, to know that the green font did not come thru...what showed up on my screen was the blue and black...since I can follow the conversation...because it was just your voice and mine...that wasn’t a problem for me but could be confusing to others if it showed up the same way for them. Also, I have a really dear friend who is a spiritual coach, that I wanted to invite into this conversation as well...I am sending a link to where you can read about him and see what you all think...
I do hope I don’t have to wait weeks to be back in this...it is indeed a rich conversation...
For Vid: This http://isc.integralinstitute.org/Public/static/vidyuddeva.htm is
also a compact bio for me... and it is in my relationship as a
integral spiritual teacher for the integral spiritual center.
nance
Nancy Wonders Dearing
Courageous Change Consultancy
Phone: 214-564-6226 Fax: 214-946-4181
Email: Na...@courageouschange.com
“What the imagination seizes as beauty must be truth.” John Keats
Courageous Change Consultancy
Phone: 214-564-6226 Fax: 214-946-4181
Email: Na...@courageouschange.com
“What the imagination seizes as beauty must be truth.” John Keats
Simone Roberts
Apr 1, 2007, 11:06:42 AM4/1/07
to ph...@googlegroups.com
On 4/1/07, Nancy Wonders Dearing <na...@courageouschange.com> wrote:
Dear Simone and Martha,
I have read, valued and appreciated all that you offered here....I am on the road and in the middle of college visits, and trying to get caught up with reports...at best it will be next weekend before I can respond to this...and since I am also getting ready to visit my daughter in London and do a bit of traveling it may be that I won't really be back in this conversation until my return, after April 23rd.
Happy Travels! London, spring time, sweet!
That said, I wanted you Simone, to know that the green font did not come thru...what showed up on my screen was the blue and black...since I can follow the conversation...because it was just your voice and mine...that wasn't a problem for me but could be confusing to others if it showed up the same way for them.
Gads. Thanks for the heads up. I'll not do that again.
Also, I have a really dear friend who is a spiritual coach, that I wanted to invite into this conversation as well...I am sending a link to where you can read about him and see what you all think...
I do hope I don't have to wait weeks to be back in this...it is indeed a rich conversation...
For Vid: This http://isc.integralinstitute.org/Public/static/vidyuddeva.htm is
also a compact bio for me... and it is in my relationship as a
integral spiritual teacher for the integral spiritual center.
nance
YES for me.
Tell London I'm coming one day.
More soon.
Si
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