What is PHP Fundamentals?

[Rob Allen]

Hi all,


PHP Fundamentals comes from this twitter conversation on 25/May/2010 :

skoop says: RT @techPortal: New blog post: Code and Release Management http://bit.ly/bv05ha

stuherbert says: @skoop it scares me that in 2010 we're still having to educate developers on that topic :(

akrabat says: @stuherbert We still have to educate developers on the benefits of version control systems... /cc @skoop

stuherbert says: @akrabat maybe we should setup an online PHP skool of fundamentals?

akrabat says: @stuherbert Funnily enough, @phpcodemonkey was talking about something similar yesterday

stuherbert says: @akrabat I have plans to work on this anyway over the summer, but if anyone wants to combine efforts, I'm very interested /cc @phpcodemonkey

akrabat says: @stuherbert I'm in! www.phpfundamentals.org acquired. No time til mid-June though.

stuherbert says: @akrabat cool. we need a mailing list or a facebook group or something to discuss & agree curriculum :)


This happened to come a day after a discussion on #phpnw with Jeremy Coates (phpcodemonkey) and others about something similar. On the grounds that nothing happens unless someone facilitates it, this is my attempt to kick something off.



I've made the assumption that we'll deliver via a website.

My main criteria is that the information provided should be up to date and not be allowed to go stale. i.e. if we end up with content that is out of date/incorrect and no one steps up to fix it, then the content will be removed. This leads me to the idea that a wiki may be a good, even though I dislike them! Thoughts?

In terms of content, my initial thoughts were to focus on processes that all PHP developers should understand:

* Version control systems
* Using issue trackers
* Code management
* Deployment processes
* Project management
* Customer communications

No idea if these are articles, slideshows, videos or podcasts. I would like to see an "other resources" section where we provide links to other people's work out there on the Internet.

Let the discussion commence!


(Then some people need to step up and make it happen :) - I'm busy til mid-June at the earliest!)


Regards,

Rob...

[Stefan Koopmanschap]

Hi,

A website seems the most logical, either a weblog-type website which
has a schedule of contents with new article on a regular basis (we'll
need a roster of authors in that case. authors that will also deliver
on time), or a wiki. Both websites should be relatively easy to set up
with existing open source tools (Wordpress, MediaWiki come to mind).
Advantage of wiki is that it should be more clear to find specific
topics and create a "path" through the content. Downside is that it
takes more effort to keep the information up-to-date. In the case of a
weblog, articles are dated so there is no real need for updating an
old article (a new article on the same topic is usually a better
approach). In the case of a wiki obviously we'd still need to have
"editors" that would ensure specific parts of the contents keep up to
date.

Just some ideas I had

Stefan

On May 25, 12:55 pm, Rob Allen <r...@akrabat.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> PHP Fundamentals comes from this twitter conversation on 25/May/2010 :
>

> skoop says: RT @techPortal: New blog post: Code and Release Managementhttp://bit.ly/bv05ha

>
> stuherbert says: @skoop it scares me that in 2010 we're still having to educate developers on that topic :(
>
> akrabat says: @stuherbert We still have to educate developers on the benefits of version control systems... /cc @skoop
>
> stuherbert says: @akrabat maybe we should setup an online PHP skool of fundamentals?
>
> akrabat says: @stuherbert Funnily enough, @phpcodemonkey was talking about something similar yesterday
>
> stuherbert says: @akrabat I have plans to work on this anyway over the summer, but if anyone wants to combine efforts, I'm very interested /cc @phpcodemonkey
>

> akrabat says: @stuherbert I'm in!www.phpfundamentals.orgacquired. No time til mid-June though.

>
> stuherbert says: @akrabat cool. we need a mailing list or a facebook group or something to discuss & agree curriculum :)
>
> This happened to come a day after a discussion on #phpnw with Jeremy Coates (phpcodemonkey) and others about something similar. On the grounds that nothing happens unless someone facilitates it, this is my attempt to kick something off.
>
> I've made the assumption that we'll deliver via a website.
>
> My main criteria is that the information provided should be up to date and not be allowed to go stale. i.e. if we end up with content that is out of date/incorrect and no one steps up to fix it, then the content will be removed. This leads me to the idea that a wiki may be a good, even though I dislike them! Thoughts?
>
> In terms of content, my initial thoughts were to focus on processes that all PHP developers should understand:
>
> * Version control systems
> * Using issue trackers
> * Code management
> * Deployment processes
> * Project management
> * Customer communications
>
> No idea if these are articles, slideshows, videos or podcasts. I would like to see an "other resources" section where we provide links to other people's work out there on the Internet.
>
> Let the discussion commence!
>
> (Then some people need to step up and make it happen :) - I'm busy til mid-June at the earliest!)
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob...

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[Gargoyle]

I think this is a great idea!

Like Rob, I am pretty tied up for the next few weeks, but would like
to help if I can. Although I am probably an example of a bad developer
in this topic, having only just started to use git for my own projects
(Although I did use CruiseControl in a previous company). :-)






On May 25, 12:09 pm, Stefan Koopmanschap

[philipnorton42]

Hi All,

I can see the merits of both the blog and wiki but I think a wiki
would fit in better with the model of a curriculum. My only issue with
using a wiki is that they always seem difficult to find content on and
I've never really got to grips with the special wiki syntax. Blogs are
good at displaying content, but they quickly push information off of
the front page.

The other path to take would be a page hierarchy structure in much the
way that the Drupal documentation is created eg. http://drupal.org/node/778954.
Not a perfect solution but it's available as a core module within
Drupal (called Book) and in my opinion is a decent alternative to
using a wiki. We could more easily split the site into sections and
manage the pages in those sections. Perhaps I'm just in Drupal mode at
the moment :)

In terms of free time I don't have much on in terms of projects
outside of work at the moment so I can get involved in whatever is
decided upon.

Phil,

[Stuart Herbert]

Hi everyone,

On May 25, 11:55 am, Rob Allen <r...@akrabat.com> wrote:
> I've made the assumption that we'll deliver via a website.

Can I suggest moodle?

> My main criteria is that the information provided should be up to date and not be allowed to go stale. i.e. if we end up with content that is out of date/incorrect and no one steps up to fix it, then the content will be removed. This leads me to the idea that a wiki may be a good, even though I dislike them! Thoughts?

I'm very interested in this group offering a structured curriculum. I
think that is something that will set this effort apart from all of
the other PHP websites that exist.

> In terms of content, my initial thoughts were to focus on processes that all PHP developers should understand:
>
> * Version control systems
> * Using issue trackers
> * Code management
> * Deployment processes
> * Project management
> * Customer communications

Can I suggest we also add some fundamental programming topics too?
You'd be amazed (well, maybe you wouldn't ;) ) at how many people I
come across who can't do basic steps like setup a working development
environment, troubleshoot code, use xdebug fully, create code that
will work on the target environment (rather than just their
desktop) ... :)

> (Then some people need to step up and make it happen :) - I'm busy til mid-June at the earliest!)

I can help here :)

Best regards,
Stu
--

[Stuart Herbert]

Oh, would also like to add 'the PHP execution model' to the list of fundamentals, as well as HTTP :)

Best regards,

Stu

--

--
--
Stuart Herbert

e: stu...@stuartherbert.com
t: +44 7966 284577
w: http://www.stuartherbert.com/
b: http://blog.stuartherbert.com/

[Phil Moorhouse]

There's no reason it can't be both a blog and a wiki - use the Wiki
for the article storage and have a front page blog that highlights new
wiki articles, with a comment from and some background on the original
author.

To the list of things to cover, I'd add:
A section for frameworks - an overview article on the pros/cons of
using a framework in general, and then an article on each framework
written by an advocate (avoiding any disparaging remarks about other
frameworks, we want to keep this unbiased).
A section on testing (unit testing, function testing, continuous
integration).
An overview on setting up a good development environment, covering all
the stuff mentioned above, that links to specific wiki pages for each
development tool.

Thinking about it, maybe the overview articles fit the blog post
format, and the specific articles fit the wiki :)

On May 25, 1:21 pm, philipnorton42 <philipnorto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I can see the merits of both the blog and wiki but I think a wiki
> would fit in better with the model of a curriculum. My only issue with
> using a wiki is that they always seem difficult to find content on and
> I've never really got to grips with the special wiki syntax. Blogs are
> good at displaying content, but they quickly push information off of
> the front page.
>
> The other path to take would be a page hierarchy structure in much the

> way that the Drupal documentation is created eg.http://drupal.org/node/778954.

[Michael Heap]

Afternoon! :)
Cracking idea - It's exactly the kind of thing I needed when I was
starting out.

RE: Blog vs Wiki, I'd suggest using Wordpress (or some other blogging
package). While content does get pushed off the front page as Philip
mentioned, I think that if we use a decent set of categories and tags,
it'll be much easier to navigate than a wiki. Maybe a wiki for
collaboration on articles, and a blog to publish the finished thing?

I can contribute a fairly substantial amount of time to the site over
the summer, and am more than happy to provide content/proofreading/
anything you can throw at me.

M

On May 25, 1:21 pm, philipnorton42 <philipnorto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I can see the merits of both the blog and wiki but I think a wiki
> would fit in better with the model of a curriculum. My only issue with
> using a wiki is that they always seem difficult to find content on and
> I've never really got to grips with the special wiki syntax. Blogs are
> good at displaying content, but they quickly push information off of
> the front page.
>
> The other path to take would be a page hierarchy structure in much the

> way that the Drupal documentation is created eg.http://drupal.org/node/778954.

[Michael Heap]

Apologies for posting the same thing twice, there was a huge delay
posting through the site vs posting via email.

M

[Jeremy Coates]

Hi Rob, All,

Thanks for kicking this off! It's a definitely needed topic / group.

To echo the responses of others, then yes a website seems most logical.
Wiki's are fine, however they need a good amount of discipline and
structure imposing over time otherwise they can get scrappy quite
quickly. WordPress, Drupal, Moodle? etc offerings are equally good as
they tend to provide structure easily where required. So my proposal,
let's have both, Wiki for thoughts / ideas generation (beyond the
mailing list which is where any idea may start life), WordPress (or
other publishing tool) for the publishing of public consumption stuff,
once we've brought collective thinking into a 'position'? The Wiki could
then be used to review the published pieces for applicability over time
- e.g. a peer review tool.

Comments?

To add to Rob's initial list of 'topics', I'd throw these into the mix:

* Work-flows: looking at IDEs, linking with debuggers, profiling,
VCS's etc.
* Security (basic): e.g. cleaning up input data, sessions etc.
* Frameworks: Why you'd use them rather than X is better than Y
* Code:
* Windows vs *nix environments - using the abstracted elements
like PATH_SEPARATOR etc
* Abstraction: Configuration, Display, Business Logic, Storage,
Portability
* Environments: Dev vs Staging vs Live (and working out which is
which within code!)
* OOP!
* Coding Standards: Why, what do they look like, and how to
check / enforce (VCS).
* PHP in context: Relationships between PHP, Web Server (both box
and software, module v.s, CGI), Databases, Sockets, CLI etc.

And I think that's enough of a brain dump for now, apart from to say,
I'd be glad to see some form of accreditation or other recognition to be
a goal in the fullness of time - give people a reason to go through and
learn stuff and also give something useful to employers.

I'm also going to throw in something I've been toying with for PHPNW
(but I think this may be a better home), is that of a mentoring scheme -
buddy up with a more senior professional for support / guidance -
PHPWomen run one so that may be a model to 'repeat' (beg, steal, borrow
;) ).

As to availability, none of us are ever 'available' we've all got jobs
or other activities to be busy with. For me, all I say is, I'm prepared
to go beyond that where and when I can.

Cheers,
Jeremy

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[Paul Court]

Do you all have Google Wave accounts? Just thought that this type of brainstorming might actually be the first genuine use of my Wave account! :-)

Jeremy,

I like where you are going with both the mentoring and some kind of accreditation ideas. I would have really liked something like that 10 years ago.... In fact, I would still like it - even with experience, there are always new things to learn (ZF, PHP5 SPL, etc)

Paul

[Stuart Herbert]

Hi,

I co-wrote the PHP 4 Certification Study Guide; quite happy to offer that experience towards developing an accreditation scheme for this group's results.

Best regards,

Stu

--

--
--
Stuart Herbert

e: stu...@stuartherbert.com
t: +44 7966 284577
w: http://www.stuartherbert.com/
b: http://blog.stuartherbert.com/

[Stuart Herbert]

Hi,

I have put the ideas from this thread so far into the wiki.  They're just blank pages right now, so please grab an idea and expand it as and when you can :)

Best regards,

Stu

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