Howdy <--> Disturbing influence <--> Muhahaha
Eli
I mentioned to her that I was very interested in helping out with
planning this years PHP Appalachia and/or doing whatever I might be able
to do to help out in general.
(Both from a personal standpoint, as well as a Zend standpoint, (as far
as they'll let me *grin*)
I see my name has already been taken in vain a couple of times on this
list ;) So lemme dive in an muddle the waters a little more.
I'm coming at this from a pov of someone who is REALLY interested in
attending after hearing the stories from the last couple of years, but
who hasn't attended in the past, because of how the setup was presented.
For backstory of those who haven't heard me rant:
1st year) - It was at a KOA, in KOA cabins. I'm sorry, but KOA && Eli
don't get along well. If you want a real 'resort/lodge/etc'
experience, go get that. If you want a hotel, go get that. If you want
to camp, set up a tent.
Also, it was on a weekend, which meant my work wouldn't consider it
'attending a conference', so it would have been on me to leave my family
on a rare weekend together we might have had, to go to a conference (ie,
work)
fail.
2nd year) - The fact it was 'at a lodge' never got well
presented/promoted until just 2 weeks before the event. The fact that
families (ok, a couple significant others) were coming wasn't known to
me until literally like 3 days ahead of time.
Both of those facts, suddenly increase the 'ME WANNA GO' factor
highly. Especially because my wife has expressed interest in coming to
one of these 'conferences' she hears me talk about all the time.
While it was still the weekend, suddenly turning it into a 'getaway'
with the wife, means that the weekend MAKES SENSE. It all fell
together, and I WISH I had been there. I just didn't know until too late.
So, forward to now.
Given my thoughts there, and seeing that you guys are 'considering' a
different location from 'The Beast', I'd like to suggest a few concepts:
Things that I think 'need' to be there for it to continue to grow and be
a 'cool thing':
* Keep it on the weekend (extended weekend ok)
* Keep it at least 'spouse friendly'
* Keep it 'rural getaway'
* Advertise the fact that it's 'partial conference, partial barcamp,
partial community event, partial get-a-way'
(again, this is all personal POV)
To that end, I know there are large number of various campgrounds that
could do the job, in the REAL Appalachian's (IE, WEST VIRGINIA!) /me
puffs out chest with pride.
And some I had actually looked into at one point, and seemed amazingly
reasonable.
Anyway, happy to look them back up again. The thing that I liked about
one in particular (Keith, do you still have the link I sent you 'so'
long ago about that?)
Was that not only was there a 'big lodge' to be rented, ala the best,
(though a little smaller IIRC) ... but there were also lots of 2-8
people cabins nearby as well, with a big open space between them all to
do outdoor activities on, etc.
Anyway, I do think that there are probably some awesome hidden gems, if
we are willing to find them, and especially move even a little farther
away from the 'big city'
Eli
Shawn Stratton
While I tend to agree with you on a lot of things this is not one of
them (at least partially.) The Gatlinburg area is probably the best
suited for an event like this, the reason being is it is accessible
via Air (Knoxville Airport) to hopefuls who are not quite capable of
driving hours and hours to get to the middle of nowhere. My second
disagreement comes over the fact that while this is a retreat it's
based on technology, which rules out strict campgrounds, we're geeks
which means most of us can only do so much without running power and
at least some form of internet access which again limits us to being
nearer a city (dialup and Satellite internet are not so great for our
purposes.) I do think this needs to be partially family friendly, at
least in the sense of being able to reasonably create sleeping
arrangements and nearby lodging, the fact is though at the end of the
day alcohol is involved so children may not be a welcome addition. I
have a 3 year old who I would most likely find a baby sitter for
during the time here as even though I can bring him and my fiancee I
would not want him subject to seeing a bunch of adults acting like
adults nor would I want to subject the rest of the group to having to
deal with a child. In response to cabins so far I've been interacting
with Jeff (tetraboy) in regards to the list he's working on following
up, the beast has a massive problem as far as internet is concerned,
but then again most cabins will probably have the same access
problem. There are some compromises that have to be made, I've seen
the three cabins that Jeff showed me, one will have great sleeping
capabilities, indoor pool, and awesome gaming (Moose Hollow Lodge)
however another one has a better theater for our purposes (Shangri
Cabin) but has far less sleeping capacity, the Beast also is still on
the list but it's theater is surpassed by both of the others I listed
and it still has the internet problem. My personal preference so far
is leaning towards Moose Hollow Lodge, however, I need to state the
theater has capacity for 20 (to sit etc) if we're still capping at 50
and meet cap that will be difficult, however Shangri seats 28 and has
a table like surface on the seats in the theater. It's a lot to think
about, we may also want to focus more on this being an uncon so having
a decentralized speaking platform (setup tables in a circular shape)
might be nice as well.
I know I'm just coming into this discussion (have been playing catch
up) so please disregard anything I've overlooked or incorrectly
assumed.
-Shawn
> < 1KViewDownload
Tetraboy
While I see your point about finding better deals off the beaten path,
I think the Gatlinburg area should remain the host of phpapp. As Shawn
mentioned it is easy to get to (Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, and
Atlanta airports are within 4hr driving distance), it's also close to
I-75 and US 411 and others, so it's within driving range of a lot of
the attendees. We had a lot of people from GA, AL, TN, OH, etc.
There's also the familiarity stand point. As a very popular vacation
destination, many of the attendees are familiar with the town, how to
get there, what to do etc, even more so now that the first and second
were in the same area.
Most of the cabins are in rural-ish areas, but with a close drive to
Gatlinburg. (Which is not really a big city, but it's a total tourist
trap, so there's tons to do/see/eat.) Some of the funnest memories I
had of phpapp were on our daily excursions to Gatlinburg where we'd
eat the best sandwiches in the world, make fun of the kitschy
souvenirs ("You know you wanna go back to NYC with a confederate flag
bikini!"), and enjoy the attractions such as the haunted house ("Terry
Chay!!!") and chair lifts. As far as advertising goes, I think we did
had a pretty good turn out based mostly on word of mouth. I'm just
worried we might grow too big and risk loosing what makes phpapp
special in the first place. Even at the last phpapp, there were people
who I never learned the names of, mostly those who didn't stay at the
cabin.
I'll third Keith and Shawn, and say, I would recommend no kids in the
cabin. One look at any of the fridges or counters of the last phpapp
would explain why it'd probably be a bad idea. Though not everyone
drank, there was still tons of alcohol lying around everywhere. (Also,
pantlessness!) Spouses are certainly welcome though, especially any
who don't find the idea of being trapped in cabin with 20+ geeks
terrifying. :)
-Jeff Jones
Ben Ramsey
> up, the beast has a massive problem as far as internet is concerned,
> but then again most cabins will probably have the same access
> problem. There are some compromises that have to be made, I've seen
I would recommend trying to find a sponsor who can help us contract with
a local ISP to get us a bigger pipe for 3-4 days. I'm not sure what that
would entail or how much it would cost, but it would be nice to get
someone to help us out with that.
It would be nice to set up some planned live-casting of things with the
community at large.
--
Ben Ramsey
http://benramsey.com/
Tetraboy
I've been looking at cabins and have narrowed down what, imho, is the
top three choices:
The Beast: http://www.alpinechaletrentals.com/viewproperty.aspx?PropertyID=18016
Moose Hollow Lodge: http://www.hickorymist.com/Moose_Hollow_Lodge.htm
http://www.moosehollowlodge.com/
Shangri Lodge: http://www.shangrilodge.net/Shangri-Lodge.php
We already know about The Beast, and I've sent emails to the other two
asking for information on internet, address/time to Gatlinburg, etc.
At this time, I lean torwards Moose Hollow Lodge, as it has the most
sleeping capacity and decent ameneties, especially a nice game room
and indoor pool. Shangri is smaller, but with a nice presentation room
and it's on Ski Mountain in Gatlinburg. The Beast of course has
perhaps the biggest common areas of any out there, but it has less
beds, longer time to Gatlinburg, and known bad internet. I'll keep
everyone updated with my research and maybe we can come to a group
decision as to which is best for us.
-Jeff Jones
Ben Ramsey
> Moose Hollow Lodge: http://www.hickorymist.com/Moose_Hollow_Lodge.htm
> http://www.moosehollowlodge.com/
That looks awesome!
Elizabeth Naramore
Hi Eli,
While I see your point about finding better deals off the beaten path,
I think the Gatlinburg area should remain the host of phpapp. As Shawn
mentioned it is easy to get to (Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, and
Atlanta airports are within 4hr driving distance), it's also close to
I-75 and US 411 and others, so it's within driving range of a lot of
the attendees. We had a lot of people from GA, AL, TN, OH, etc.
There's also the familiarity stand point. As a very popular vacation
destination, many of the attendees are familiar with the town, how to
get there, what to do etc, even more so now that the first and second
were in the same area.
And let's not forget the almighty reuben! :)
I'll third Keith and Shawn, and say, I would recommend no kids in the
cabin. One look at any of the fridges or counters of the last phpapp
would explain why it'd probably be a bad idea. Though not everyone
drank, there was still tons of alcohol lying around everywhere. (Also,
pantlessness!) Spouses are certainly welcome though, especially any
who don't find the idea of being trapped in cabin with 20+ geeks
terrifying. :)
Agreed, and I mentioned the same thing to Aaron Wormus. If you wanted to bring the whole family, I think that would be fine if you preferred to stay in your own separate cabin or hotel or whatever. But it would be like having kids in the backroom :)
E
Elizabeth Naramore
Hi all,
I've been looking at cabins and have narrowed down what, imho, is the
top three choices:
The Beast: http://www.alpinechaletrentals.com/viewproperty.aspx?PropertyID=18016
Last year this was $1000 per night for September, $1400 per night for October. There are also additional fees such as booking fees ($145), cleaning fees (I can' remember how much) and tax. Our total last year was $4770.
There are 12 bedrooms, so we just divvied up the total cost per bedroom. This equated to about $300 per room (was based on the cheaper rate). If we were to book it again for the same time, it would be more like $400 per room.
Moose Hollow Lodge: http://www.hickorymist.com/Moose_Hollow_Lodge.htm
This one does look awesome indeed, but it's also a lot more expensive. $1320 / night cheapest (September weekdays) and $1840 / night for October. There is an additional cleaning fee of $350 plus a $35 booking fee. There are only 9 bedrooms, so we would divide all that up by 9. Assuming 3 nights, it would be $4345 + tax for September and $5905 plus tax for October. Without tax it would then be $482/room - September and $656/room - October.
Shangri Lodge: http://www.shangrilodge.net/Shangri-Lodge.php
This one's a little more reasonable at $890 / night and $1300 night for September & October respectively (not including any additional fees they will charge).
It would be nice to have the common areas, granted, but I'd also like to keep the cost reasonable ... especially for those who already have to fork out a ton for airfare and/or car rental.
E.
Jeff Jones
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Tetraboy <tetr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Moose Hollow Lodge: http://www.hickorymist.com/Moose_Hollow_Lodge.htm
This one does look awesome indeed, but it's also a lot more expensive. $1320 / night cheapest (September weekdays) and $1840 / night for October. There is an additional cleaning fee of $350 plus a $35 booking fee. There are only 9 bedrooms, so we would divide all that up by 9. Assuming 3 nights, it would be $4345 + tax for September and $5905 plus tax for October. Without tax it would then be $482/room - September and $656/room - October.
Shawn Stratton
really is that there are limited rooms that are shareable. Just a
thought.
Eli
I didn't realize that everyone was "SO" set on Gatlinburg as the
location. I thought that it would have been at least worthwhile to
explore other options to see what exists. Afterall, it's moved
locations each year now anyway. But obviously exploring other locations
is not in the cards.
And for the record ... I NEVER assumed or meant to imply that there
would be children staying in the 'main lodge'. Just that keeping it
'spouse friendly' is, IMO, a very good thing, and that the possibility
of expanding it to 'family friendly' (through careful choice of locales
to find additional near-by family cabins for people that might want
them) could be a good thing and perhaps a draw.
I also assumed from chatting with a few folks that this year's PHPapp
was going to try to re-focus itself a little bit more on being a
conference+community event ... and not a Toxic Hot Tub with Police and
Emergency room visit wild party.
Afterall, there was a fair bit of negative press and rumor going around
about how it just degraded into that, and wasn't really a
'conference'/'community' thing.
Eli -- Zipping it now.
Ben Ramsey
> Afterall, it's moved
> locations each year now anyway.
Technically, it's in the same location. It just moved over the mountains.
;-)
Ben Ramsey
> was going to try to re-focus itself a little bit more on being a
> conference+community event ... and not a Toxic Hot Tub with Police and
> Emergency room visit wild party.
FWIW, the original idea of PHP Appalachia that we came up with in #phpc
(originally, I think it was me and lightcap that came up with the idea)
was just for a group of people to get together and hang out for the sake
of hanging out.
See here:
http://benramsey.com/archives/php-appalachia-announced/
"PHP Appalachia is an informal gathering of PHP enthusiasts who just
want an excuse to get together and enjoy exchanging information in a
relaxed, beautiful setting. There is no set agenda, no formal speakers.
Just 3 days of camping and sharing PHP ideas and experiences with people
just like you."
It was supposed to be like a "hall session" at a conference. Just people
hanging out and sharing ideas.
I'm not sure how much we have diverged from this vision, but I wouldn't
like to see us go too far from the original intent.
> Afterall, there was a fair bit of negative press and rumor going around
> about how it just degraded into that, and wasn't really a
> 'conference'/'community' thing.
Links? I never heard any negative press, but maybe I didn't see the
news/posts that negatively reviewed the event.
Eli
> want an excuse to get together and enjoy exchanging information in a
> relaxed, beautiful setting. There is no set agenda, no formal speakers.
> Just 3 days of camping and sharing PHP ideas and experiences with people
> just like you."
>
> It was supposed to be like a "hall session" at a conference. Just people
> hanging out and sharing ideas.
>
> I'm not sure how much we have diverged from this vision, but I wouldn't
> like to see us go too far from the original intent.
Said intent is a fine one, it all depends on what you want the event to
be. However:
>> Afterall, there was a fair bit of negative press and rumor going around
>> about how it just degraded into that, and wasn't really a
>> 'conference'/'community' thing.
>
> Links? I never heard any negative press, but maybe I didn't see the
> news/posts that negatively reviewed the event.
I can't think of any specific 'news' stories that talk negatively about
it. It's more a general feeling from talking with lots of folks since
the last one, at conferences, in IM's, etc ... whenever it would get
brought up.
There is a group of people (The PHP 'clique', and the partiers), who
think it was AWESOME.
Then there are a number of folks, who think it was a drunken orgy (sans
orgy).
If you think about it (though since you were there, you weren't seeing
the 'outside' POV) ... every piece of information that came out of
PHPapp was:
"Woo, pushing back and cancelling talks, too hung over"
"woo, #toxichottub"
"woo, pantless reinheimer"
"Woo, firetrucks & police here"
"Woo, Cal going to emergency room"
"woo, Ben Ramsey is giving his presentation while drunk"
"woo"
That was it. There was no knowledge coming out (or if it did, it was
buried under the 'drunk' and 'hottub' statements), about it being great
to be together with the community, about any furthering of PHP due to
it. About any of the presentations being any good. (Instead the
indication was given that some of them were handled in jest instead)
etc.
Overall, what people saw, was a drunken party with a handful of PHP
folks, who attempted to justify it with giving a few presentations.
Heck, first thing that I had to do when I started at Zend (literally),
was to defend PHPapp as a valid 'conference'/'community' thing that I
should go to. Because everyone there thought it was just a drunken party.
Now, I'm the first to say, that there is nothing wrong with a drunken
party ;) But having a drunken party, and advertising it as "PHP
enthusiasts getting together to talk PHP", and getting sponsors to pay
for it ... doesn't seem kosher.
I had assumed (but perhaps I'm mixing up conversations I'd had with
various people over the last 6 months) ... That there was going to be an
attempt to do a better PR job on PHPapp this year, to make people see it
as a great exciting and useful community event.
Eli
D. Keith Casey Jr.
> I didn't realize that everyone was "SO" set on Gatlinburg as the
> location. I thought that it would have been at least worthwhile to
I'm not committed to Gatlinburg, but it is pretty centrally located. We
had a number of people who flew in - Brett, Sara, Maggie, Paul, Chris
- so moving away from hubs would make it more difficult.
> And for the record ... I NEVER assumed or meant to imply that there
> would be children staying in the 'main lodge'. Just that keeping it
> 'spouse friendly' is, IMO, a very good thing, and that the possibility
I understood and agreed 1000% that under 18 in the cabin is a *bad*
idea. I'd normally say "under 21 is bad" but since Elizabeth behaved
herself (mostly), we can waive that for her again this year.
Spouse friendly definitely doesn't hurt. Let's face it, most of our
spouses probably hear about various members of this crew all year.
Actually being able to put a face/voice with them once in a while
doesn't hurt. As long as it doesn't become a "couples weekend", I have
no problem with that.
> Afterall, there was a fair bit of negative press and rumor going around
> about how it just degraded into that, and wasn't really a
> 'conference'/'community' thing.
I got one call on this one... apparently one attendee - let's call him
"Sandon Bravage" - was sharing a bit too much of the story via Twitter.
Regardless, I learned a lot, gGot a chance to hang with lots of good
people, and am definitely looking forward to it this year.
If this thing is going to grow a bit, we need to figure out how we're
going to handle it:
* I like the idea of a cabin that sleeps ~50 with a secondary
cabin/hotel nearby for overflow;
* We need to have common spaces, living/dining/game space is good, the
theater space is even better;
* If some people are hoping to get employers to pay some portion and/or
we want some sponsorships, we need to have some structure with some real
sessions;
* If we want employers/sponsors to give us money, we need to make sure
to spend it on non-alcohol purchases *first*;
In one way or another, we're each in charge of or recruit for the
communities, companies, or projects that we work with. If this looks
like some sort of clique-ish get together, I think we're going to harm
our other efforts throughout the community.
My 0.02,
keith
Eli
> had a number of people who flew in - Brett, Sara, Maggie, Paul, Chris
> - so moving away from hubs would make it more difficult.
There are plenty of airports ya know. I wrote code to catalog them
recently, it's amazing how many there are. And given the attendees who
came, not counting the TN ones, were from OH, DC, NY, GA ... There are
locations that can be more central to that core group.
Anyway, was just saying that other options can/do exist.
> Spouse friendly definitely doesn't hurt. Let's face it, most of our
> spouses probably hear about various members of this crew all year.
> Actually being able to put a face/voice with them once in a while
> doesn't hurt. As long as it doesn't become a "couples weekend", I have
> no problem with that.
To me, that's one of the great perks of this concept. To have the
ability, once a year, to bring my wife to something where she can meet
some of the faces behind those 'weird names' that I keep saying all the
time to her. In a more social setting (versus a conference).
Especially if enough other folks started to bring SO's as well, so that
it wasn't just 2 of 'em sitting around bored, but a pack of them that
could be going off and having fun and doing stuff and bonding
themselves, while we all sit in a presentation.
> If this thing is going to grow a bit, we need to figure out how we're
> going to handle it:
>
> * I like the idea of a cabin that sleeps ~50 with a secondary
> cabin/hotel nearby for overflow;
I personally liked the idea of not just the 'central cabin' for hanging
out and such, but also if it was a 'cluster' of cabins where people
could be spread out into more of them, to allow for greater expansion,
while keeping everyone in a 'group' setting.
At that point, one could almost even ignore having people 'live' in the
main cabin, depending upon the setup.
> * If some people are hoping to get employers to pay some portion and/or
> we want some sponsorships, we need to have some structure with some real
> sessions;
>
> * If we want employers/sponsors to give us money, we need to make sure
> to spend it on non-alcohol purchases *first*;
*nod*, I'll also add that the PR will need to be very clear about what
it is, and isn't. Both before, during, and after.
> In one way or another, we're each in charge of or recruit for the
> communities, companies, or projects that we work with. If this looks
> like some sort of clique-ish get together, I think we're going to harm
> our other efforts throughout the community.
Agreed.
Eli
Shawn Stratton
I hope you didn't misunderstand what I said, my argument was mainly on
the grounds that going further out would make this inaccessible for
several members, it was not meant as an attempt to chastise or
otherwise be critical of you.
In regards to the discussion so far:
I think one thing we should do this year to prove that this isn't some
sort of clique event that's meant as a couples retreat or a "drunken
orgy" would be to make the entire session available via streaming
video (w/ sound) (the theatre at the least) which means we need to
look into internet options. I've not heard anything negative about
phpapp, however, I did notice some cliquish behaviour at works between
the phpapp attendees from last year (not pointing a finger merely
stating an observation.) I'm chancing to say that this is partially
where the issue came about with negative pr. I also think that there
should be a wiki listing all oss projects coming out of things
discussed at phpapp, I'm sure there will be at least one project
started (thinking rest implementation from |works @elazar @tbga
@calevans) and I think we should also keep from outlining talks but
committing ourselves to spending x amount of time sharing our
knowledge, perhaps a pledge of time might be in order to help or
otherwise share knowledge. Last I think that there should be an
article in PHP|Arch in regards to lessons learned and knowledge shared
at PHP App. that would make sure that anyone who is curious what was
going on or who didn't know about php app previously learns about the
event. I'll be broadcasting php app to my ug members (the few there
are) heavily, considering this is our regional area. I think that the
original idea Ben portrayed earlier is a valid and strong reason to
get together, it's just how the events of last year were portrayed
publicly differed from the idea. I meant to go and couldn't due to
financial reasons, the entire weekend I sat at home and saw tweets in
regards to Reubens, Cal's foot, the evil Chris Shiflett lunging at Ben
with a broken beer bottle, etc etc, and yes that did alter my
perception of PHP Appalachia significantly until I started thinking
about it again.
I hope that nobody takes what I say on here as offensive or otherwise
critical, I'm offering my opinion and nothing else and my opinions are
usually very ego centric so there.
Shawn
On Feb 9, 3:46 pm, "D. Keith Casey Jr." <ke...@caseysoftware.com>
wrote:
Ben Ramsey
> Overall, what people saw, was a drunken party with a handful of PHP
> folks, who attempted to justify it with giving a few presentations.
Fair enough.
> Now, I'm the first to say, that there is nothing wrong with a drunken
> party ;) But having a drunken party, and advertising it as "PHP
> enthusiasts getting together to talk PHP", and getting sponsors to pay
> for it ... doesn't seem kosher.
As far as I know, we have never asked a sponsor to pay for alcohol, nor
have we ever used sponsor money for alcohol. I can't speak to how the
money was spent last year, but I know we simply used the sponsor money
(the very little that we received) to subsidize the cost of WiFi (when
it worked) and t-shirts for the first year. It would be nice to see how
the money was spent for last year's event, though.
> I had assumed (but perhaps I'm mixing up conversations I'd had with
> various people over the last 6 months) ... That there was going to be an
> attempt to do a better PR job on PHPapp this year, to make people see it
> as a great exciting and useful community event.
I guess I've been left out of those conversations, but I would welcome a
bit more organization. Still, to be honest, I wouldn't want to see it
get too big or too formally organized.
(If you guys are having these conversations without me, I'd like to put
my name back in the hat to be included back in the "club." Last year,
when I said I didn't have much time to devote to calling places and
planning locations, I didn't mean that I didn't want to help organize
the event anymore. ;-) )
And for the record, I have *never* given a presentation drunk before. I
have never even had any alcohol to drink before giving a presentation,
at PHP Appalachia or otherwise.
Eli
Any conversations I refer to would have been side conversations I had
with folks. Not officially 'PHPapp planning' convos. My apologies if I
led otherwise. But hence why I brought it up to everyone here now.
> Still, to be honest, I wouldn't want to see it
> get too big or too formally organized.
You can be 'organized', without being organized. If you know what I
mean. You can plan topics that will be discussed, open source that
will be hack-a-thon'd, etc kinds of stuff ... that are great to put out
there and say will be done.
Without ever planning a conference track. Or doing similar things.
Also, I think 'size' is a self limiting thing anyway. At some point, it
limits itself. And at some point, it naturally splits into a couple of
groups because the group is too big.
Artifically limiting it however, runs the risk of driving home the
clique aspect more.
> And for the record, I have *never* given a presentation drunk before. I
> have never even had any alcohol to drink before giving a presentation,
> at PHP Appalachia or otherwise.
*grin* I think the original quote was about you having to sit down
during a talk, because you were hung over and/or still drunk from the
night before.
Which as the game of 'telephone' goes ... becomes "Ramsey giving a talk
Drunk" ... you know how that works.
Eli -- Who honestly thinks that conferences should give out beer with
lunch :)
Ben Ramsey
> I think one thing we should do this year to prove that this isn't some
> sort of clique event that's meant as a couples retreat or a "drunken
> orgy" would be to make the entire session available via streaming
> video (w/ sound) (the theatre at the least) which means we need to
> look into internet options.
I tried to do this last year with Yahoo! Live, but the Internet pipe at
the cabin was so bad it was impossible. Yes, I would love to do
something like this.
> I've not heard anything negative about
> phpapp, however, I did notice some cliquish behaviour at works between
> the phpapp attendees from last year (not pointing a finger merely
> stating an observation.)
I don't think the "cliquish behavior" was a result of PHP Appalachia.
From a personal perspective, I have friends that I hang out with at
every conference I go to, and I only see them at conferences, so I like
to spend time with them.
A clique is really not a bad thing. It's natural behavior, and I don't
think of myself or any of us as being particularly exclusive in who we
let hang out with us. I personally try to extend invitations to
newcomers to let them know it's okay for them to hang out with us (and I
know others do the same), but there are those whose personalities tend
to make them shy away from a group who has already formed friendships
and has a history together, making it difficult for them to find their
own place within the group. I'm not sure how to involve these people any
more than we already do. If you have suggestions, I'm welcome to hearing
them. :-)
> the entire weekend I sat at home and saw tweets in
> regards to Reubens, Cal's foot, the evil Chris Shiflett lunging at Ben
> with a broken beer bottle, etc etc, and yes that did alter my
> perception of PHP Appalachia significantly until I started thinking
> about it again.
I'd like to state that I was in no way involved in the creation or
propagation of that made-up story about Chris Shiflett attacking me. I
don't know who originated it, nor do I care. Every time someone mentions
it, I have made it a point to downplay it without sounding like a total
dick and ruining someone's fun for making a joke. That said, I think
it's a pretty childish story, and if that's the kind of story that
people hear coming out of PHP Appalachia, then I completely understand
why they might not want to attend.
The stories coming out of the event should be about how we had good
community-building in the "hallways" and how we discussed X and decided
it was a good approach to software development or how Y would be a good
feature of the PHP language, etc. Childish stories that make PHP
Appalachia sound more like a mid-1980s frat party movie aren't the kind
of press we want for any conference.
Eli
civilization and away from airports.
In a couple of private messages today I kept getting the impression that
people were really concerned about moving away from Gatlinburg because
"We can't move farther away from an airport"
I never meant to suggest such a thing. My suggestion was just under the
assumption that people were up for looking at alternative sights. At
which point, even while keeping in the Appalachias, you get Kentucky,
Virginia & West Virginia added to the possible locations list.
That, and I had stumbled onto an example campsite, which seemed rather a
good 'idea' of what an awesome site would be. A central cabin for ~50,
that had a 'courtyard' that was surrounded by smaller 4-12 person
cabins. The exact site wouldn't work most likely, as it's a 3hr drive
from the closest airport. But was just an example.
(And for the record, West Virginia has 3 airports that numerous major
airlines fly into, and a number of smaller ones)
Anyway, at this point I'm zipping my lips about anything regarding a
non-gatlin site.
Eli
Ben Ramsey
> I never meant to suggest such a thing. My suggestion was just under the
> assumption that people were up for looking at alternative sights. At
> which point, even while keeping in the Appalachias, you get Kentucky,
> Virginia & West Virginia added to the possible locations list.
By the way, I'm not opposed to looking at alternative places.
I know this has been a "heated" topic on this list, and Gatlinburg seems
to be a favorite place, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm sort of liking how this has become an event that a single
person/company isn't making decisions on but that people from the
community are having input into it and making it their own thing.
:-)
Eli
> "Sandon Bravage" - was sharing a bit too much of the story via Twitter.
> Regardless, I learned a lot, gGot a chance to hang with lots of good
> people, and am definitely looking forward to it this year.
Keith, I don't think it's fair to pin this on Brandon (sorry, Sandon).
I'm not even sure I was following him on twitter at the time. I was
however seeing all sorts of tweets along those topics by all/most
attendees of PHPapp, including yourself.
There was a 'general vibe' coming off the 'gathering'.
No one person 'shared too much'. It was a semi-honest accounting of
what went on, and everyone's story mostly matches up :)
Eli
Ben Ramsey
So, yeah. We've talked about this enough, and I've heard one person say
that the PHP Appalachia mailing list is starting to sound like the
php-internals list. So, let's give this topic a rest.
:-)
Moving forward, we should talk about how to create positive PR for the
event, rather than focusing on any negative publicity from last year.
Shawn Stratton
-Shawn Stratton
-----Original Message-----
From: Eli <e...@eliw.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:54:14
To: <php-app...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Chastised ... was: Re: Howdy <--> Disturbing influence <--> Muhahaha
Jeff Jones
Some of us may have gotten carried away with telling the "tall tales" (wildly exaggerated versions of relatively mundane events) of phpappalachia so much that the reason we actually enjoyed attending was missed. I really enjoyed the friendship and exchange of information. With the casual atmosphere, talks were less of a "formal presentation" and more of an "idea sharing session" where people were free to discuss the subject at hand without fear of needing to stick to a schedule etc.
PHPApp was my first time meeting anyone from the PHP community in person. I felt welcomed with open arms, and part of the group from the first day. So if there is a PHP clique, it's an open inviting clique that welcomes new members. We should definitely focus on the community and exchange of knowledge. Tis why I think whatever Cabin we choose, a good theater/presentation room is key.
Jeff Jones