Getting started

[Derek]

It's awesome to see the early traction this idea is getting. Since
I'm sort of new to organizing any sort of xCamp, I'm looking to other
to help give our planning structure. Really all I've done so far is
buy the domain, grab the twitter account and setup this group.

I've seen some early discussion on Twitter around lining up
sponsorship, which is great. We even got interest from MPIX which is
the largest photo lab in the country (they're a division of Miller
Imaging out of Pittsburgh) just by mentioning their Name. The one
question I have (Pete) is what sort of budget does it take to put
something like this on?

Venue-wise, I talked to James Carlson after the last Web414 and
Bucketworks is on board for hosting this. The space there is perfect
for setting up breakout sessions for discussion, as well as offering
plenty of space to set up shooting bays for indoor work. Timing-wise,
the initial thought is to do this in July and we're penciled in on the
calendar there. It gives us the ability to have stuff go outside as
well as inside.

I'll probably start another thread around sponsor ideas. For now, I'd
like to at least get a list going of the stuff that needs to happen.

--

In term's of web presence, this group will probably serve us well for
the time being, and I'll leave the domain forwarded to it. I've got a
grid-service account with media temple I can point it back at if we
identify the need to put together a dedicated website for this. I do
know there are enough web designer/photographers out there that we
could get something together that looks good.

[Pete Prodoehl]

On Dec 19, 11:22 am, Derek <de...@hirlpoo.com> wrote:
> I've seen some early discussion on Twitter around lining up
> sponsorship, which is great. We even got interest from MPIX which is
> the largest photo lab in the country (they're a division of Miller
> Imaging out of Pittsburgh) just by mentioning their Name. The one
> question I have (Pete) is what sort of budget does it take to put
> something like this on?

We've got a venue, and as soon as we have a date, we can start
promoting the event, and getting people interested. When you go to
sponsors, it's a good idea to let them know how many people will be
there, and what type of people. If we can say 100 professional and
amateur photographers from around the Milwaukee-area will be
attending, that helps show the potential sponsors the audience they
will be reaching.

Did Bucketworks give a hard cost, or are they somewhat flexible on
what they might expect from this? Besides the venue cost, the main
expense will be food. We've always tried to provide food so people can
stay at the venue and not have to worry about running out somewhere
when they get hungry. If we start at 10AM, we should provide juice,
coffee, bakery, etc. Things like water, soda, etc. are an "always have
around item" and if we do lunch, that's a whole meal. Dinner? If we
want to run past 5 or 6PM, I'd say yes to dinner. Pizza is always a
good choice.

For sponsors, how much do we want to ask for? $100? If we can get 15
sponsors, that's $1500, which should cover food for the day, and
hopefully enough for Bucketworks. At previous Camps there have always
been a few individuals who have kicked in either cash, or brought
food, snacks, water, soda, etc. Anything helps.

What do sponsors get? They get their name in front of people who love
photography, and probably spend a lot of money on it. They get their
logo on the web site, and their logo on the wall at the event. Any
printed material or promotional items will mention them.

So, we should start throwing out potential sponsors. We want local
companies, but also any online companies that have to do with
photography in any way. We also need a way to take in money. If no one
opposed, I'd suggest that Web414 can probably do it, since we've done
it before, and will somehow sponsor this event.

Pete

[Rachel Kenison]

I do think we should go into the night. It would be great to do night shooting and strobist activities.

I would not be opposed to Web414 handling the money, since you have experience with it.

We can get the word out in our Cream City flickr group and get some of the students to spread the word on campuses. Any other ideas?

Off the top of my head sponsor ideas:
Ritz
Art's
Crivello's
Adobe (I'll ask the Lightroom Lab twitter guy about it when we get things in order)
Adorama (I buy lenses from them and print photos)
Calumet

Does anyone have photog Madison connections to spread the word there too?

Rachel Kenison

[Derek Dysart]

James didn't give a cost. I know he's pretty busy this week. If Web414 is
setup to handle money, that sounds good.

[wikignome]

On Dec 19, 11:51 am, Pete Prodoehl <p...@rasterweb.net> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 11:22 am, Derek <de...@hirlpoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I've seen some early discussion on Twitter around lining up
> > sponsorship, which is great. We even got interest from MPIX which is
> > the largest photo lab in the country (they're a division of Miller
> > Imaging out of Pittsburgh) just by mentioning their Name. The one
> > question I have (Pete) is what sort of budget does it take to put
> > something like this on?
>
> We've got a venue, and as soon as we have a date, we can start
> promoting the event, and getting people interested. When you go to
> sponsors, it's a good idea to let them know how many people will be
> there, and what type of people. If we can say 100 professional and
> amateur photographers from around the Milwaukee-area will be
> attending, that helps show the potential sponsors the audience they
> will be reaching.

><snip>

>
> For sponsors, how much do we want to ask for? $100? If we can get 15
> sponsors, that's $1500, which should cover food for the day, and
> hopefully enough for Bucketworks. At previous Camps there have always
> been a few individuals who have kicked in either cash, or brought
> food, snacks, water, soda, etc. Anything helps.

Once we have a taste of how eager potential sponsors are to get
involved, and how readily the message gets itself out there, we may
want to decide if we should cap the number of attendees. I have a
feeling this could turn out to be 'way more popular than we first
expect, and instead of "say 100 professional and amateur
photographers", we could be looking at 800 or something. It's the
kind of problem we *do* want, but if we're not prepared for it, it
could be a problem none-the-less.

[Derek Dysart]

That's a thought I've had as well. Photography is a much bigger hobby that
hacking on computers. We're drawing from a MUCH larger pool of potential
attendees then for things like BarCamp.

-----Original Message-----
From: photoc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:photoc...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of wikignome
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 12:14 PM
To: PhotoCampMKE
Subject: [photoCampMKE] Re: Getting started

[Pete Prodoehl]

On Dec 19, 2008, at 12:14 PM, wikignome wrote:
>
> Once we have a taste of how eager potential sponsors are to get
> involved, and how readily the message gets itself out there, we may
> want to decide if we should cap the number of attendees. I have a
> feeling this could turn out to be 'way more popular than we first
> expect, and instead of "say 100 professional and amateur
> photographers", we could be looking at 800 or something. It's the
> kind of problem we *do* want, but if we're not prepared for it, it
> could be a problem none-the-less.

As much as I love Milwaukee, I don't think we'll see crazy numbers.
For one thing, it's in Summer, and we will have competition from,
nice weather, vacations, other events in the city, etc. plus the old
"crap! I have something I can't get out of!" situations.... plus, if
we have more people, so what? We just can't provide food for them
all, and people have to get their own. All that does is show the
interest in the topic, and well... that's a good thing. Our only
limit on people should be what Bucketwork's capacity is.

Pete

[Brennan Stehling]

Scheduling should be worked around the bigger festivals that happen in
Milwaukee. I am sure it would be best not to this during Summerfest.
Since it is Milwaukee there will be a different festival each weekend,
so it may make sense to ensure that people can pop in for a couple of
hours and make the most of it before heading out to whatever other
activities they have planned.

When I went to PDC last month there were presentations starting every
hour which lasted for 45 minutes. Then throughout the day there was
the expo area where the vendors and Microsoft has booths set up where
you could talk to experts on various topics. If Canon, Adobe and other
were on hand to have booths running all day where people could just
come chat with them about their camera, photoshop, etc it would
enhance the event. At BarCamp3 I found that it was hard to plan out my
day because I did not know if the session I was waiting all day to see
was actually going to happen. I actually waited all day for 2 sessions
which never happened.I would like to know there will be "anchor"
sessions that are guaranteed to happen. That good boost attendance. If
these "anchor" sessions happened at 10am, 1pm, and 3pm it would help
keep people at the event and give people the opportunity to be sure to
be at Bucketworks when these sessions happen.

Also, to promote the event I would do photowalks at the festivals in
the weeks before the event and make sure people have business sized
cards to give people about PhotoCampMKE.

Brennan

--
Brennan Stehling
http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
http://www.smallsharptools.com/

[mainfr4me]

Are you thinking cap the number of attendees? If we do that, then how
do we figure who gets in (lottery, first come first serve, aptitude
test)?

[Pete Prodoehl]

Capacity should not exceed what Bucketworks can hold, due to city
regulations, but my guess is that it's probably 1000 or something,
and I really don't think we'll see more than that.

Pete

[Simon McConico]

One of the bad things about having this in the summer is that if you
have pro photogs they are going to be really busy. In June, July,
that is the prime wedding/senior time and I know that all of my
weekends are going to be booked. Unless this was on a week day, it
would be hard to pull bigger photogs in. Just my 2cents.

[Derek Dysart]

Simon -

I did have that thought that a summer Saturday of any sorts might limit any
wedding shooters. We don't have a date in stone. It is literally just on a
white board at Bucketworks if there is a strong enough feeling to move it.

That said, I think we'll get the most attendance on a weekend. The idea
with summer was to allow for some outdoor shooting.

-----Original Message-----
From: photoc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:photoc...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Simon McConico
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:40 PM
To: PhotoCampMKE
Subject: [photoCampMKE] Re: Getting started

[Brennan Stehling]

I think if you give enough lead time we can still get several pros to
attend the event. Many would welcome a weekend off from the wedding
scene to just hang out in a relaxed environment.

I also know many pro photographers will not do weddings and they would
be able to attend. I guess weddings are very demanding even if they do
pay well.

Brennan

[Simon McConico]

Yeah... I probably wouldn't mind a weekend off. A Sunday or Friday
might be a lot more attractive though than a Saturday. I already have
every Saturday in September booked and June and July are filling up
fast. Ive only been shooting for a few years, the old pros would
probably be really booked. Sundays and Fridays are much better
though...

March or April might work though as well. We can shoot outside and
there really arent a ton of weddings around that time of the year.

[Rachel Kenison]

And the nice thing about these type of camps, you can come for how ever long you want to come whenever you want to come. Feel like doing a workshop? Throw it up on the board.

For those not familiar with BarCamp, is there a link to point them to that explains what the format is like?

Rachel Kenison

[Brennan Stehling]

A nice feature of Bucketworks is the different areas. We could set up
a low light area to work on night and dusk photography.

Brennan

[Pete Prodoehl]

Friday is probably a deal breaker for most of us working normal jobs...

Saturday is my preferred day, though Sunday is a possibility...

Pete

> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

[Douglas Whitfield]

On Dec 19, 12:19 pm, "Derek Dysart" <de...@hirlpoo.com> wrote:
> That's a thought I've had as well.  Photography is a much bigger hobby that
> hacking on computers.  We're drawing from a MUCH larger pool of potential
> attendees then for things like BarCamp.

I never thought of BarCamps as to being about hacking. Is this how
other people view them? I mean BarCamps I've been to have discussed
fuel efficiency, robotics and dating. I'd say PhotoCamp is a much
more specialized event, though it doesn't matter what the reality of
the situation is for promotion, it matters how people perceive it.

BTW, being from Madison (Verona, actually) I will totally agree that a
weekday is absolutely out of the question for me.

[KeVroN]

Great Conversation, sorry I am joining it late.
Here is how I am seeing the camp, just an idea. Riff away:

I like the idea of it being a dawn to midnight type of event. Any less
would be unbarcamp and more meetup+. This way you can do some amazing
daybreak shots, have plenty of coffee time and general organizing,
then great sessions all day, dusk shoots, outdoor nighttime shooting,
strobist, and then a late night editing and uploading party!
On the subject of venue. Bucketworks wants to host it and it wont' be
free. We spent 6 hours tonight working out and finalizing 2009 and
beyonds pricing. More info to follow soon. . .
On the same tip we need to start a CreamCityPhoto get together that is
not just the photowalk. It would be a perfect augment and addition to
the walk because everyone would have time to process and share their
work and then talk about the results in-person 2 weeks later!
This would also breed a superarmy of photocamp Priors that would
preach the word of photocamp.
So say we all.

-KeVroN

[Gabriel Wollenburg]

Would a Friday Saturday split be doable?

I guess, the deciding factor should be what kind of professional
photographer particpation we're looking to garner. I think that there
is some value in angling for the pros, but I think there is a bigger
value in shooting for an attendance of passionate hobbyists.

I mean, if we really wanted to talk about who brings the most "wuffie"
to barcamp, it's always the passionate hobbiists, in my book.

It has to be a saturday or sunday. It just does in my opinion.

--
----------------------------------
Your E-Pal, Gabe

[Pete Prodoehl]

I don't care if you are a professional or amateur, I just care how
much you love photography, and want to turn that love into making
things happen.

So "passionate hobbiists" defintely!

Pete

[Douglas Whitfield]

On Dec 21, 11:04 pm, "Gabriel Wollenburg" <gwollenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Would a Friday Saturday split be doable?

Well, if it started Friday night, that would be possible for me. I
think the dawn to midnight version sounds good, though the idea of
getting up before dawn does not appeal to me at all.

[Pete Prodoehl]

I like to aim high, but I think we'd be better served with a 1 day
event. I can see the dawn to midnight thing happening, but I'm sure
it'll be a much smaller group who shows up that early. (And NO party the
night before!)

Running longer does mean that if we want to provide food for attendees
from 5AM to midnight, we will need more of everything.

July sunrise in Milwaukee is between 5:15 and 5:45 AM. I can see doing a
meetup/photowalk early for people, but those folks might be hurting if
they try to stay until midnight.

Here's an idea:

5AM "Unofficial" PhotoWalk
9AM "Official" opening ceremonies
10AM Meet & Greet
11AM - 12:30PM Lunch
1PM - 5PM Sessions/Shoots/Etc. (20+ sessions can happen)
5PM - 6:30PM Dinner
7PM - ???? Sessions/Shoots/Etc. (20+ sessions can happen)

Pete

--
RasterWeb!
http://rasterweb.net/raster/

[Rachel Kenison]

I like Kevin/Pete's dawn to ??? timeframe. As I frequently have to get up that early for work, I have no problem being there that early, but will require nap time at some point ;-)

I was thinking about sponsors this morning. It would be good to come up with a vendor/sponsor level list. You know, what kind of perks they get at what price. Will we allow vendors to setup displays? If so, those levels would be much higher than someone who just wants their name mentioned/printed.

Once we know exactly how much BW is charging, we can more accurately make up a budget and know how much $$$ we need. I really want to set a date so we can start lining up sponsors and getting the word out. The sooner the better.


Rachel Kenison

[mainfr4me]

Timeframe looks good to me as well. Saturdays are hard in the June/
July/August time frame (last summer I was booked every weekend and
sometimes Friday and Saturday). Late April might be a really good
option. I think last year things were greening up pretty well, temps
were fairly moderate too (jeans and long sleeve walkaround type).

On Dec 22, 12:30 pm, "Rachel Kenison" <rachel.keni...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I like Kevin/Pete's dawn to ??? timeframe. As I frequently have to get up
> that early for work, I have no problem being there that early, but will
> require nap time at some point ;-)
>
> I was thinking about sponsors this morning. It would be good to come up with
> a vendor/sponsor level list. You know, what kind of perks they get at what
> price. Will we allow vendors to setup displays? If so, those levels would be
> much higher than someone who just wants their name mentioned/printed.
>
> Once we know exactly how much BW is charging, we can more accurately make up
> a budget and know how much $$$ we need. I really want to set a date so we
> can start lining up sponsors and getting the word out. The sooner the
> better.
>
> Rachel Kenison
>

[Simon McConico]

I agree... as much as I would like to take a saturday off in June-
August, that is the cash money time for weddings and I dont know that
it would be possible to take one off. April or May would be great
months though to shoot for. I dont have many weddings booked and dont
plan on having that many booked.

I think it kinda has to happen on a Saturday. Another question is
models. I have quite a few connections with models, but many of them
want to shoot TFCD or a little cash money specally if there are going
to be a ton of people shooting them. With that many people, and
amatures, shooting them they dont know what they are getting and it is
hard to know who shot who and get photos to them. I would suggest
paying 4-6 models for the day so that they dont really expect photos
and are being compensated for their time. Just a thought.

[Rachel Kenison]

Here's the question Simon: could you spend and hour there? You don't need to come for the whole day.

As far as models go...maybe if we overshoot our budget goals we can include that. However, the day isn't structured and I'd hate to have models with nothing to do for chunks of the day. I have friends we can use too.

Rachel Kenison

[Pete Prodoehl]

I sort of prefer earlier as well, April/May instead of June/July.
There's just too much going on in Summer, and by July, we'll be planning
BarCampMilwaukee4. (And yes, definitely a Saturday!)

I would not be in favor of paying models, as there will probably be many
people who have no interest in shooting models, and it's an extra
expense. That said, with people there, we can certainly "find" models
among the participants. (I know this doesn't fly as much for
professional work, but for this sort of event, I think it's fine.)

Remember, we are after the passionate people, the ones who love
photography, and don't just see it as their profession or a job.


Pete

--
RasterWeb!
http://rasterweb.net/raster/

[Derek Dysart]

The idea for July came out of literally three minutes of discussion that went along the lines of "we should do it when it is warm out." "Yeah, definitely." "We've got July open?" "Done"

About two days later I had the realization that Simon has pointed out, namely just about every wedding photographer will probably be booked for the day. That said, spring can be hit or miss, but the later the better - meaning probably May. The one thing from the April Cream City photowalk I remember was the fact that Doctor's Park was so devoid of color. If we want to do this at Bucketworks, we'll definitely need to check on availability (James? Kevin?)

RE: Models, I wouldn't be opposed to having models, but I think paying them might be outside of the mindset of the BarCamp philosophy. That philosophy centers around the free exchange of knowledge - think "real life Wikipedia". TF* might be more inline. Building on Pete's comment, if we could get models that are passionate about photography even better. I'd also expect them to participate in the camp as much as anyone else - give a session on how not to work with a model or something along those lines.

The overall goal of the camp wouldn't be to round out anyone's portfolio. It might be worth setting the expectations beforehand regarding the licensing of any material created at the camp. At BarCamp, everything created there is considered CC licensed.

--
derek dysart | mobile: (262) 758-2456 | blog: http://hirlpoo.com

-----Original Message-----
From: photoc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:photoc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Prodoehl
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:09 PM
To: photoc...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [photoCampMKE] Re: Getting started

[Pete Prodoehl]

Derek, since I consider you the main organizer, you get to pick the
date. :) (Well, as long as it works for Bucketworks.)

As you said, PhotoCamp is based on BarCamp, and for the free exchange of
ideas... for teaching and learning. I hate to say this, but if a paying
gig is more important, and you can't skip one Saturday, then make that
decision and miss PhotoCamp. Someone will always have a conflict.
Personally, if no wedding photographers show up, I think I can still
learn a lot. (Maybe not as much, but still a lot. Mind you, I have no
interest in shooting weddings. YMMV.)

Models... I think a good photographer could do well in teaching your
average attendee some of the tricks of modeling. That would be worth
learning.

Derek, you mentioned the licensing... Yes, as *Camp events are typically
about sharing and teaching, and being open, we have always requested
that any media created at these be made available under a Creative
Commons license. I can already guess this could be a huge issue when
dealing with photographers, especially ones new to the *Camp idea.

But busting open the "All rights reserved" nut and seeing it grow into a
"Creative Commons" tree is a goal I'm willing to undertake.

Pete

--
RasterWeb!
http://rasterweb.net/raster/

[Derek Dysart]

I figured the licensing thing might be a bone of contention, why I think it might be worth bringing up early in our messaging. I'd hate to be blind-siding anyone.

There is probably a bit more discussion to be had with Bucketworks both in terms of cost and timing. That won't probably take place until after the first of the year given everyone's schedule.

--
derek dysart | mobile: (262) 758-2456 | blog: http://hirlpoo.com

-----Original Message-----
From: photoc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:photoc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Prodoehl
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:43 PM
To: photoc...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [photoCampMKE] Re: Getting started