Boards available: quanton flight control rev. 1

[Lilvinz]

I am proud to have the opportunity to announce hardware availability of a new target for TauLabs.

quanton flight control rev. 1

Details can be found at the webshop:

http://www.quantec-networks.de/quanton/

[peabody124]

It's worth commenting that this board is currently the record holder for lowest sensor noise out of freedom, revo and quanton.  *grumble grumble*

[Lilvinz]

Some videos of the flying quanton (in historical order):

OpenPilot firmware on pre release hardware:
https://vimeo.com/51772080
https://vimeo.com/51776478

TauLabs firmware on final hardware:
https://vimeo.com/58572704
https://vimeo.com/58536514
https://vimeo.com/58536515
https://vimeo.com/58668541

[AlPackin]

nice!

What are the mounting dimensions?  Can I replace an OP board directly or do I have to make an adapter?

[Lilvinz]

I will add that information to the page shortly.
The hole spacing is 45mm and the board edge length is 50mm. (Standard MK style)

[Kenn Sebesta]

The underside of the quanton is completely bare. You can just use some flat double-sided tape to get it to hold onto any horizontal surface. I placed a piece of card stock on top of my existing 36mm standoffs, and then stuck the Quanton to that board. Worked like a charm.

[AlPackin]

That's good, all my copters have the 45mm mounting pattern as well as the smaller OP pattern.  I will just have to remove the OP adapter.

[Olivier Damiron]

Lilvinz, that looks great. As it is, can this board do stabilize, alt-hold and position hold with a GPS?  Essentialy, is the software ready for that? Obviously the PIDs need adjusting for each frame but is the code ready to the point where we can test this?

I am asking because I am building two quads and I am desperately looking for a flight controller other than the DJI Naza (too expensive and too limited) or APM2.5 (too unstable at the moment with all the code changes) that can do basic stabilization and Alt-Hold or Position Hold. 

Will purchase one very shortly, I like where this is going!

Thanks,

[Lilvinz]

Hi Oliver,
it should be capable of doing Altitude hold as well as GPS position hold.
I am about to test those two features and make some videos of it.
Cheers,

Lilvinz

[Olivier Damiron]

Wonderful Lilvinz, Great work. Will pick one up shortly to play with it too. Looking forward to seeing your videos.

Regards,

[Doensi]

Hello

I need your powerful device for an onboard datalogging experiment. Is it possible to log all sensor data (maybe plus additional external sensors)
Is there a onboard facility to log data? (SD-Card or another memory)
Is it possible to write a code for that purpose?
Is it possible to transfer the data via serial interface (like RS232 or similar) to another MC asa graphical user interface (like a meter)?
What update rate would be possible?

Thanks

Kai

[Doensi]

Hello

are you from Germany?

Kai

[Lilvinz]

Hi Kai,

data can be logged using our GCS. I suggest you to take a look at it.
Quanton flight control does have a 32MBit SPI flash but there is currently no firmware support to log onto that chip.
As far as i know on board logging should be possible using the freedom board which james currently develops.
All Tau Labs flight controls can send data out via a UAV telemetry link and i think it has just been added
support for sending data out in mavlink protocol as well.
Regarding the update rates it mainly depends on the respective sensor and of course the
speed of the link you are using.

Vinz

[Lilvinz]

Ah i forgot to mention that we even have a small VM to access any I2C devices.
That should make it easy to add external sensors as well.

[Carsten Böhme]

Is there an explanation on how to use the battery connector? I guess this is a voltage sensor for use with the battery module and FlightBatterySettings?

My progress so far: short indoor hover flight, OP GPS and XBee connected and working, six point calibration (took a few attempts before I strictly followed the movement of the paper plane)

[Kenn Sebesta]

Right, that's right. You'd have to look at the schematic to see what the absolute limit is for the input voltage.

I want to work on instructions for the six-point, and am open to suggestions for describing the following, without overloading the user:

1) The six-point is not strictly necessary for multi-rotor flight, but it is for fixed-wing.

2) The six-point only needs to be done once. You only have to repeat it if you erase all the flash.

3) It is far more important that you hold the vehicle still than that you hold it perfectly at 90 degree angles

4) It's not important to follow the up-left-down... sequence in order. You get identical results as long as you generally point in these 6 directions.

[Menno]

I think that point 4 raises more questions than that it gives clarity.

Also I believe that users need to click the save button at the bottom of the module otherwise the calibration will not automatically be saved?

[Carsten Böhme]

1) The six-point is not strictly necessary for multi-rotor flight, but it is for fixed-wing.

2) The six-point only needs to be done once. You only have to repeat it if you erase all the flash.

3) It is far more important that you hold the vehicle still than that you hold it perfectly at 90 degree angles

4) It's not important to follow the up-left-down... sequence in order. You get identical results as long as you generally point in these 6 directions.

 Your instructions are pretty clear, so a mouseover text with the above should be perfect.
+ should the motor(s) be running?
+ are results which are accepted by the calibration process sure to be good, or is there a way for the user to assess the quality of the calibration?

[Doensi]

Sorry,

but what is GCS ?

Thanks

[Kenn Sebesta]

Ground Control Station. It's the software that allows you to dialog with the flight controller board.

[Kenn Sebesta]

Yes, but that's true for all the settings. I'm not sure, but perhaps we need to update the widget so it asks you if you're sure you want to leave when you have unsaved calibration changes.

You're right about #4, which is why I don't explain it often.

[Kenn Sebesta]

1) For magnetic sensor calibration, yes, the motors should be running.

2) I'm not currently aware of an easy way for the user to assess the calibration. In theory, it's enough to put the board into a known angle and compare the sensor readings with the expected values. For instance, the accels should show a magnitude acceleration of -9.805 m/s^2 on average, but who to explain to users coordinate axes and rotations? Ugh... Not going to happen in any constructive way.

[Menno]

That reminds me; I don't know if this is a bug in general, but the GCS asks me whether I want to save changes when I leave the output module even when nothing is changed. If I remember correctly it doesn't ask me to save changes when leaving the INS module after performing the six-point calibration. 

[Kenn Sebesta]

That would be a UI bug, yes. Can you file an issue on github?

[Lilvinz]

Hi Carsten,
nice to see you here. Regarding the battery connector, it is ok up to 36V so for normal flight batteries there is not really a limit. I have yet the add the support for the adc
on the quanton target. Maybe i will find time to add that tomorrow.

Cheers,
Vinz

[Felkk]

Would I be able to create a breakout board for the MP3V5004G and connect it up to an ADC on the Quanton using this VM?

[Lilvinz]

Currently this is not prepared in the port for Quanton but i don't see why we couldn't add ADC functionality for some of the UART RX/TX pins. I will have a look at the datasheet.

[Kenn Sebesta]

The ADC routing module should be able to route an ADC signal from a port to a destination. So for instance, you could connect the airspeed sensor to the battery ADC. You'd lose some in resolution, unfortunately, because of the resistor bridge.

It would be awesome to have additional ADCs, though!

[peabody124]

There's also some work in review that allows adding an I2C ADC chip and using that for additional channels too.  So yeah, should be possible.

[AlPackin]

I just ordered one.  Does it come with headers?

[Lilvinz]

Usually it comes naked. But if you don't have some at hand i can put some in there for you. Do you prefer straight or 90° angled ones?

[AlPackin]

thanks Vinz I can't wait to fly it 

Ed

[mnuapel]

Hello Livinz,

Don't you have 1 or 2 bare pcb available to sell for self assembly? If possible I would also buy sensors, especially MPU6000 is hardly accesible for me.

Thanks

[Lilvinz]

When we start the next batch (should be next week) i can take aside some boards for you.
I would really advise against trying to self assemble but anyway.
As for sensors i can take apart some as well.
Just drop me a note what you need and i can tell you the pricing.

[eklo]

Hi Lilvinz,

I'm just getting my board set up and had a few questions.

Which branch has the most up to date code?  I am currently working on next.

Also, can you confirm that the BAT connector is for voltage sense only, and does not power the board?

What is the peak current consumption on the 5V line from the board?  I am bridging the output +5V pins to power servos, but planning on using the 5V bus for telemetry (1.1A peak), GPS (0.1A), and RC Rx (0.1A).  Should I add a jumper wire to send servo power to the telemetry radio's serial port?

Thanks.

[Lilvinz]

next is the branch to use.
BAT definitely is for measuring battery voltage only.
Most of your questions should be answered here: http://www.quantec-networks.de/quanton/data/Manual%20(en).pdf

[Kenn Sebesta]

@eklo

Next has the most up-to-date code. Quanton is a fully supported target, so all code in next is always the latest.

The BAT connector is for vsense only. However, I do not believe that the driver is ready for this. I'll let lilvinz comment.

I'll let lilvinz give the definitive answer, but 1A sounds like a lot if the traces are small.

[AlPackin]

I just wrote a 23 page .doc with screen shots of every step required to download Next, updating the firmware on quanton and going through every config page in GCS.  I only have one question.  Is it necessary to cycle power on quanton after changing the HW settings like on a CC board?  Reset button maybe?

[metRo_]

wow sounds like a great job.

Do you know latex? It is not to hard to learn and it is a easier way to others contribute :)

[Lilvinz]

Excellent! The reset button is exactly for that purpose. No need to power cycle.

[AlPackin]

ok good, I'll add that.  I just have to solder on the headers so I can connect a RX and actually run the Input Wizard.  I want to add a page or two about running that then I'll be ready for someone to proof read it.  Right now it's written in Word as a .docx file and all the screenshots are .png.

[Kenn Sebesta]

Wow, that's a really contribution! Looking forward to seeing it. And if you need any help, don't hesisitate to ask.

[@mundsen]

Hi!

I have a quanton Board, and try to Connect an Ublox NEO 6M module (from rctimer.com)
Is there a config file I can use to gonfigure the module, or some recomended settings?

[Kenn Sebesta]

This one should work: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/phoenixpilot/mfwikNUZ5-I/dwBOfu3398cJ

[Lilvinz]

Basically what you want to do is use the u-center to completely disable all messages and then just enable what is required:
https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/blob/next/flight/Modules/GPS/UBX.c#L310

UBX_ID_POSLLH
UBX_ID_DOP
UBX_ID_SOL
UBX_ID_VELNED
UBX_ID_TIMEUTC
UBX_ID_SVINFO
Finally you can set the speed to 5Hz or even 10Hz

[AlPackin]

I soldered the headers. The last time I did soldering like that my eyes were 25 years younger but it came out well.  I think I'll mention the 5V enable bridges required in here too. I used a PPM RX, ran the Wiz and got some good shots.  I have to take my wife out for dinner now or she will kill me so I'll finish in the morning :)

[@mundsen]

Hi!

Have configured the GPS module like this:
Enabeled:

UBX_ID_POSLLH

UBX_ID_DOP

UBX_ID_SOL

UBX_ID_VELNED

UBX_ID_TIMEUTC

UBX_ID_SVINFO

 

Speed= 5Hz
BaudRate = 57600

 

In u-center, I get 3D fix and all works fine (UBX)

 

But when i connect to quanton, the GPS in the Flight Data window is still grey, and no GPS info
It is connected to UART5, UART5 (is +5V enabled).
I power the board from external 5V (connected to OUT 1 - that is +5V enabled) - the green LED on the GPS module is on

 

Any hint on why I do not get any GPS info?

[@mundsen]

Great work. Is it possible to get a copy? I´m trying to configure mine (learn to use the GCS..)

[AlPackin]

@mundsen I will finish my tutorial today and make it available somehow.  Maybe I can just zip it and email it to you.  We will see later.

[AlPackin]

let me see if I can just attach the .doc file here

[AlPackin]

that seemed to work ok.  If someone could look at for me I would appreciate it.

[Menno]

sounds like you didn't enable the GPS module in the UAVObjectbrowser?

The UAVObjectbrowser is on the right side in the configuration tab. Look at setting->modulesettings->state. Set GPS to enabled and write to Quantun with the red arrow at the top of the browser.

Also in settings->modulesettings there are options for changing the GPS protocol and baudrate.

[AlPackin]

so that worked out great! The MW2 configed GPS board that witespy sells works great with quanton. Same form factor, just change the baud to 115,200 and the protocol to NEMA instead of UBX

[AlPackin]

oops that NMEA :)

[peabody124]

Just as a side note, at the point you start using it for autonomous flight I would highly recommend switching to UBX.  Enabling the NEDVEL message is pretty important as it gives a much better 3D velocity estimate than NMEA.

[peabody124]

Oh shit, I should have said on a main note awesome work Al!

[@mundsen]

Any info on status?
Hi, after some delays, I'm almost ready to start testing the Quanton controller Live.

- Is there any info on what modes is safe to use, and what modes that is only recommended for test purposes?

- Can S-Bus be used?

Have a great weekend :-)

[AlPackin]

A user over on RCG setup successfully with S-Bus and another was successful with altitude hold.  I have only had one day of reasonable weather but I had bad batteries so I haven't done any useful testing yet myself

[@mundsen]

Great.

Allmost ready to mount my new FPV frame that i plan to use with my Quanton controller.

Have modified this one: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/arducopter-tbs-discovery-style?xg_source=activity&id=705844:BlogPost:1089985&page=1#comments

I have modified the CP so I can use 16mm carbon tubes and CP + Motor mounts from flyduino
http://flyduino.net/FCP-HL-16mm-shells-for-Centerplate
http://flyduino.net/FCP-HL-16mm-shells-Motor-side
http://flyduino.net/FCP-HL-Motormount-Black-matt-v20

Mount Quanton + GPS between CP (there is hole for the GPS antenna)

To reduce noise I plan to mount ESC´s away from the controller, on the sides of the motor mounts. To protect the ESC´s from spikes, I´m going to replace the capacitors on the ESC`s with 2 x 470uF 35V low ESR
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952523

I plan to test 3DR 433Mhz radios for telemetry
This GPS module - http://witespyquad.gostorego.com/flight-controllers/ublox-6m-gps-w-mounting-backplane.html
200mW 5.8 Ghz video TX
FrSky futaba RX module that supports S-BUS
FPV Camera: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/600TVL-SONY-SUPER-HAD-CCD-D%252dWDR-Color-Board-Camera-with-OSD-Menu-DNR.html
GoPro 3 White (filming + photo)

iPower 970Kw motors
10x4.7 props

Futaba T10 radio

This image is only to test layout, the arms used in the image is 33cm - plan to shortem them to 25cm

Have shared my modified dxf file if anyone els want to test it.

I hope this is going to be a great plattform for testing the controller

Is there a way to connect LED strips to the controller, and use them to indicate different modes, like Armed, Un Armed, flight modes, Low battery..??

[@mundsen]

The dxf file I have modified - have not test mounted the controller and GPS 

[@mundsen]

My Quanton FPV Quad after cutting the arms at 25cm:
I´ll stop posting in this thread, and may start a new when it is finished, where I write about my results/experiences  using the Quanton controller, GPS, telemetry.. (if anyone is interested?)

[@mundsen]

Any news on this? I have connected Bat to my 3cell LiPo and activated it in setup, but I do not get any battey info in the GCS

Is the buz connector in use? 5V or 12V?

[Reddog]

I bit the bullet and bought one of these. Going to be fun for sure.

[pug398]

Everytime I tried enabling battery monitoring I got errors writing to board so I left it disabled. Have all other modules running but still get event error on RTH. Alitude Hold is functional as well as Position Hold but just realized I need to reprogram my GPS for ubx.

 

 

 

[AlPackin]

Pug, did you see my doc that shows the GPS settings that you have to make (AFAIK) ? ahhh here it is ,,,

[AlPackin]

and Pug, very nice to see you here, welcome :)

[peabody124]

Yep welcome Pug.

As far as I know, the battery code isn't ready on Quanton yet, so that's probably why the battery module doesn't do good things.

Please don't try RTH or any navigation stuff yet.  I'm very actively working on it (already done three flights today) but there are still lots of edge cases that I want covered before end users try it.

[pug398]

Thanks guys. Ed I went right to your ubx setup guide first thing. Gave me a little trouble but finally got it talking ubx. Ended up using ubx only instead of both and set baud at 57600. Had to write my original config file back a couple of times before I got it right. Speaking of config file winXP saves it no problem where win7 hangs.  

 

You know I had to give the different flight modes a try but you are right best wait :)

 

 

 

[AlPackin]

I'll have to bring my XP laptop home from work to see if I can save a config file with it.  It is Win 7 I'm having the problem with, thanks Pug.

[pug398]

Well got a chance to try out the altitude hold today using TL3_19 on the Quanton. Don't know if improvements were made or if it was the fact I changed type of foam over the barometer but ALH did real well. Seem to hold altitude fairly close even when flying around slowly. No throttle issues activating ALH or POH either. Only briefly tried POH to check the throttle. There is more to getting that to work because evertime I activate it the quad wants to go off on some mission of its own and I would just assume that it stay put :)

 

[Olivier Damiron]

Hi Lilvinz, just received the Quanton today, congrats on the design and quality, gorgeous little board.

I downloaded the latest next taulabs .exe from http://jenkins.taulabs.org/artifacts/

I found the GCS in the bin directory and started it and the board is detected no problem.

I get a message the following message:

GCS and firmware versions of the UAV objects set do not match which can cause configuration problems. GCS version: 20130323 15:29 (b87d5f89-fd6c72e1) Firmware version: 20130204 12:56 (69efbc27-b38c3d82)

I went to the Firmware tab in GCS backed up the board.

Then I attempted to load the latest firmware from the taulabs flight directory but there are several .bin files there. fw_quanton, ef_quanton and bl_quanton, I am assuming it is the fw_quanton file so I select it, I get a new message that states:

WARNING: The loaded firmware wa not packaged with Tau Labs format. Do not update unless you know what you are doing.

Since I wasn`t sure, I didn`t go through with it. 

Pardon the complete noobie question here but I thought I would ask before I proceed to brick the board or something!

Thanks!

[Olivier Damiron]

Ok, disregard my last post, I figured out that the file that needs to be used to load the last firmware matching the gcs is the one called fw_quanton.tlfw

If flashed successfully.

Cheers,

[AlPackin]

you have to load the firmware in the download to quanton ... what you want is fw_quanton,tlfw

[Olivier Damiron]

Thanks Al, that`s the one I just used and it worked. One thing that puzzles me is that I have no altitude reported on the HUD and the Temp-baro light is not green on the board status display.

Do i have to activate it in system?

[pug398]

I activated altitude and altitude hold setting until someone says otherwise. Need to turn them on in system before putting it on the mode switch otherwise you get warning. Module settings>AdminState

[msev]

In which software is quanton's schematic/board drawn?

[cncbasher]

Eagle .. 

www.cadsoft.de

[pug398]

Anybody else testing position hold? Functional and holding when activated just not taking my finger off the switch yet :) Makes a move after 20 seconds and wondering what behavior others see.

 

[Stefan Cenkov]

Yes, today I made the first test, look In this reply:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/phoenixpilot/mfwikNUZ5-I[101-125-false]

[peabody124]

I've been testing it pretty frequently and have a branch getting to where I'm relatively happy.  There are still a few reasons I would recommend people avoid it and known situation that can trigger a fly away - but if people are going to be testing it anyway I might push my results and post a thread to start discussing it.

[Stefan Cenkov]

@peabody124 the idea is phenomenal.
For example today I burned 7 batteries until I get values ​​that allow more or less Position Hold mode without much drift. En last test quad has lost about 2 meters high.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUspA9zYTI0&feature=youtu.be

[peabody124]

Actually I'm still a bit hesitant to start a thread and encourage people to test this, given the known limitations.  However, people that are dead set on it can email me and we can start a discussion.  Also it's much better if you have telemetry and can log your flights (this can be done automatically from android) so if things don't go well we get things out of it.

[pug398]

Not a problem waiting for it to get straight. I just test each release as it gets pushed out and in the latest release position hold seem to be working. I just tweak a little and look at revo settings that have already been posted. Not much I can do when it starts moving other than disengage, fly it back and engage it again. Things seem to be progressing right along.

[JamesL]

I'm willing to risk and try.. but, won't the onboard 32m flash chip do the logging?

[peabody124]

It could do logging but currently does not.

[JamesL]

i dont mean to be pushy... but shouldnt such important feature has higher priority... so everyone who uses this board can log without needing find a datalink and phone/laptop?

:)

[peabody124]

To be honest that's never really been a planned feature.  We've always used telemetry for logging.

[JamesL]

not meant to be rude... but if onboard data logging is not going to be a feature...why the heck we are having the flash/ sdcard everywhere? 

[peabody124]

The flash chip is used for storing settings, and in the future for storing flight plans.  The only thing with SD are some of the FlyingF3 shields which it _would_ be cool if logging were implemented for.

Don't get me wrong - it would be a useful feature and there is some infrastructure in place for it (e.g. each UAVO already has a logging field in it's meta-data).  Just telemetry provides essentially equally useful data so it's not a priority.  I haven't even looked into the details about how feasible it would be to _always_ log to the flash chip - because the last thing you want to do is run out of writes there and not be able to update your settings.

[JamesL]

it could be also my misunderstanding... I made the assumption that the flash from f407 is sufficient for saving all code and flight plan. and the additional flash is for data logging (like apm) .. i might be wrong about it.... 

[peabody124]

It's certainly feasible - we use the internal flash on F3 for settings.  There are some things that are awkward about doing that though (for example you have to stop code execution while modifying those settings).

[Redfox74]

Hi Guys on VRBRAIN is possible to store the log on SPI data flash , normally we use it on arducopter for store the log during fly is possible to activate also the raw data from sensor during fly without problem.

So is possible because the dataflash that we use have the double buffer approach , normally store the data fast on dataflash ram , then  with a simple command it transfer to flash the data in ram and you can continue to upgrade the date on second ram block during transfer.

Use internal flash of micro is insane and can produce a lot of instability to the hardware and firmware ... in the early version of arducopter32 i used the internal flash for store the parameter but i lost a lot of time and normally for strange reason happen that we lost our data .. so i prefer put an external eeprom on VRBRAIN for store also the parameter. 

Best

Roberto

[peabody124]

Yeah as I said it's certainly possible, just not something implemented in our existing code and not a huge priority right now (at least for me - if someone implements it then awesome).

[Reddog]

I received one of these lovely boards today, great workmanship and I love the standard headers!

Is there currently a working firmware and GCS for these boards? I am only going to be using it on fixed wing.

[Olivier Damiron]

Hi Reddog.

Pick up the latest win32.exe file from here:

http://jenkins.taulabs.org/artifacts/

decompress the exe somewhere on your pc.

To launch the GCS, you need to naviguate to the taulabs_next etc.... directory, gcs directory then bin directory. Launch the GCS by doubleclicking taulabsgcs.exe

You will need to update the FW on the board once connected via USB. You need to go to the Firmware tab, press HALT, (puts the board in bootloader mode), wait until you see your quanton listed

Select the open button

Naviguate to the where you extracted all the taulabs files, look for the flight directory, quanton directory thenlocate the fw_quanton.tlfw file

Hit the FLASH button.

Once complete, hit the BOOT button and you`re good to go.

Enjoy.

[Reddog]

Thanks Olivier. I use Mac and it doesn't seem like we have a Mac build available. Do I need to compile Mac myself?

[Olivier Damiron]

Oops. Wish I could help you there. So far only win 32 and linux code I think.

I am sure Mac builds will show up soon though, you are not the only one with a Mac out there! I have one too and it would be nice to have Mac builds as well.

regards,

[peabody124]

Try this https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20130406-09fd8d9e.dmg (should be uploaded in 8 minutes)

[Reddog]

Thanks mate!