MultiWii horizon mode

[peabody124]

I was playing around with porting MultiWii horizon mode to Tau Labs today. It's pretty fun.  Supposedly this is good for FPV to be able to fly attitude and also do flips :)

http://buildandcrash.blogspot.com/2013/11/taulabs-gets-multiwii-horizon-mode.html

https://vimeo.com/78585463

OSX build: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131104-6f25da28-horizon.dmg

Windows build: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131104-6f25da28-horizon.exe

[Reddog]

Never heard of this before, what a great idea! Nice work mate.

[Jörg Rohde]

I have to say I use it - horizon - on a Naze. And when you implement it in TL I must put an Sparky in my mini - 200mm - copter. Telemetrie, Batt., to my Hott:-)

[peabody124]

Tested on a plane today and updated the video. https://vimeo.com/78585463#t=2m43s

[Oso Grande]

Ok, I got it loaded onto my CC3D board last night and got a chance to fly it after work today.

Holy crap it works great!  In your video you noticed something odd doing pitch rolls.  It seems to yaw around 180 degrees once it gets inverted before rolling the rest of the way over.  It's almost like doing auto Split-S maneuvers.  This is the first time I've flown on Tau Labs firmware.  I just copied the same PID's as I was using on the OP firmware and its appears to me to be even more smooth flying on this version.  Forgive the yawing back and forth I do occasionally in this video, I kept getting turned around.  Not enough visual landmarks under the goggles.

I've flipped over left, right, forward and backwards to check to see if there is any bugs.  It seems the same odd rotations occur whether flipping forward or backwards, but not to either side.

Thank you sir, I'm enjoying this quite a bit!

http://vimeo.com/78874506

[peabody124]

Awesome video. Glad you like it!  Yeah we did quite a few improvements to the flight code since the fork so I think it flies better now.

Also I think it showed me what is going on - basically when you pitch flip the roll axis is in attitude mode and when you flip upside down it thinks it needs to roll 180 degrees. I can fix this fairly easily and will upload a new version after testing it.

[Oso Grande]

Very cool.  Thanks for the work and the quick response!  I've never gotten the hang of acro mode so this is right up my alley.  

You keep fiddling with the code, I'll keep crashing and testing!

[pug398]

Been hoping for something like this. Put it on one last night and hope to give it a whirl tomorrow. Think I had maybe better put the cheap props back on first :D

 

 

 

[Oso Grande]

It flies well. Just watch out pitching foreward or backwards. Left and right roll works great.

[pug398]

Oh I am sure it flies well it is my aerobatic skills that worry me LOL

 

What rate are you running? On the old TL a rate of 400 was a slow loop, 500 wasn't bad but got a little tricky and 600 was tough to handle. With expo added in I imagine that took care of the problem of being hard to handle. Guess I will start with 500.

[Oso Grande]

I was using a rate of 300 in the above video.  I'll be trying 500 tomorrow since 300 was a bit slow for my taste.  I'm running 75% expo and that makes for some pretty smooth flying.  

[pug398]

Wow if that is 300 then something has changed so I had better back off some. 

 

 

[peabody124]

So I think these firmwares should fix the weirdness on pitch.

Sparky: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/fw_sparky_horizon.tlfw 

CopterControl: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/fw_coptercontrol_horizon.tlfw

So what this does is bases the blending based on whichever stick has the greatest input (that's what I tried to do in the last version for Oso but had a bug).  Now when you are in high rate for pitch the roll axis will go into rate mode (i.e. if you are neutral it will try and keep the roll stable). 85% stick input goes into full rate (seems like a reasonable value).

Also regarding the max rate, you can try exponential as well (on the FC side) to have higher rates but make it feel more stable in the middle. I know some of the guys on IRC are using up to 600 (make sure you increase your gyro rate).

[Oso Grande]

Thank you sir.  I'll give it a try in the morning.  Thanks for all your work!

[pug398]

Definitely nice. This updated version flew very well and had a good feel to it on my 500 size quad. Decent flip speed at 300 rate if you have a little altitude. All you guys are doing a great job. Glad you are still supporting CC since that is what I tested it on and now to try it on Sparky.

[James Cotton]

Great! Awesome it is working now. Video always welcome ;)

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[pug398]

Oso can confirm since he is the one that picked up on it but all the flip combinations seemed good to me. Need to come up with a different cap mount for my camera before getting any video :)

[peabody124]

Here is me testing it with my Aggressor.  Definitely some of the cleanest looking flips I've ever done.

https://vimeo.com/79046689

[Oso Grande]

Looks like it's working pretty well.  I got out to the field and found I had a motor wire come unsoldered so I've yet to test it.  Possibly later today or definitely tomorrow.

That last flip didn't look like the landing went off as planned.  

[peabody124]

I just like testing that the stress points break as planned :)  big props to QuadAddict designing that frame well.

[pug398]

Nice. That is what I like about it the flips break pretty clean even when the rates are cranked up. The 2000 degree gyro setting always worked well for me using Mike Barton's custom firmware and the D20 gyro. This eliminates breaking out the flip at the worst time and slamming into the ground under power.

[Oso Grande]

We have a winner! It flies great. I'll have video up later this evening.

[AlPackin]

heh heh ... great job peabody124 !

[Oso Grande]

https://vimeo.com/79061286

Looking forward to pushing it further.

[peabody124]

Nice demo! It's crazy how tightly and level those flips stop, especially seeing it from FPV perspective. I've added to the videos page http://taulabs.org/videos.html

[Oso Grande]

Thanks.  I'm going to be having some fun with this flying mode. 

[Jörg Rohde]

Tested just now. It´s realy funny. Normaly I am flipping arround with copter´s from half the weight and less then today - but it works.
Gyrorange to 2000 and rate to 500 on roll and pitch works fine.
Thanks James for this feature in TL.
 

[pug398]

I know what you mean. I wish now I had not disassembled the 2 meter quad as it would be awesome to see it flipping about with this running on it.

[Oso Grande]

It's no 2 meter quad but this one is about 4 feet across + 16" props.  I was doing some acro with it with a NAZA on manual.  It sounds like a prop cargo place circling overhead.

http://vimeo.com/77422744

[Jörg Rohde]

Oso, 14mm tubes and Turnigy Talon Motorholders?

[Oso Grande]

Yup, Turnigy Talon V2 frame with the extended arms. 25 minutes hovering on 5ah 3s.

[Oso Grande]

Ok, so 500 deg/s is a little fast for the sensors it appears.  I wanted a faster roll than 300 was giving me but it appears 500 throws off the sensors as to what level is.

Damage includes a bunch of nylon bolts and one cf arm & leg.  Oh well, I have spare parts....

http://vimeo.com/79153408

[James Cotton]

Aww man. Sorry to hear that. Whenever you use rates greater than 400 deg/s you need to make sure the gyro rate is higher. I used 2000 deg/s on sparky in my last video.

Can you make a bug report and I'll add a check to gcs to prevent easily entering this configuration. Or maybe I should even add the check to the flight firmware and prevent arming...

--

[Oso Grande]

I feel like I'm answering a newbie question, but how to I make set the gyro rate higher?

[James Cotton]

Thanks for making the issue.

That should show up in the config gadget on the main page for the board. However now I think about it that night not be exposed in the GUI for CC.

You should be able to get to it through the browser in HwCopterControl->gyro range. Will post later when at computer if you can't find it.

[Oso Grande]

I got to it through the browser and got it switched up to 2000.  That said, I lowered the rotation down to 350 deg/s and I'll more slowly step it.  500 was rolling it over faster than needed anyway.  I just want to be able to flip and roll without losing too much altitude.

[James Cotton]

Also be cautious. I've had ESC failures with crazy stick changes.  Normally my ESC though :)

[Jörg Rohde]

SimonK ESC´s?
On one quad when I arm, give 10% throttle to stabilize and than move the throttle very fast to 100%, two of the BL´s desynchronize and the Quad flips 180° on SimonK´s.

On a Quad with SiLabs/BLHeli I haven´t seen this. The SparkyQuad with the Horizon Mode has SiLabs there I have no Problem with 500°/sec Rate and 2000°/sec Gyrorange

[Reddog]

Supposedly the MultiWii ESC code is more stable for some ESCs than SimonK.

[Oso Grande]

Hobby king blue series flashed with SimonK.

Glad to hear 500 does work with the gyro set to 2000.

[pug398]

I find the more narrow the stator the more chance the motor will unsync with simonk. With 12mm and wider stator I have not had a problem so far.

[Oso Grande]

That would make sense given that some folks have had problems running simonk firmware with pancake motors.

[James Cotton]

Glad it isn't just my firmware that loses sync

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[peabody124]

So if others want to test it, here are updated builds:

Linux 32 bit: http://jenkins.taulabs.org/artifacts/taulabs_horizon_20131113_152330_73f8749573_linux_i686.tar.xz

Linux 64 bit: http://jenkins.taulabs.org/artifacts/taulabs_horizon_20131113_152330_73f8749573_linux_amd64.tar.xz

OSX: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131113-73f87495-horizon.dmg

Windows: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131113-73f87495-horizon.exe

This should work on Quanton, Sparky, CC3D and RevoMini as far as I know. Please post with any problems or results :).

[pug398]

James, any reason to use the included updated win version over the previous one?

 

Out of curiosity would it be a coding nightmare to have dual stick rates and dual gyro range? Auto switch between the two depending on mode? The reason asked is I think I see "wandering" coming back in atti mode as gyro range and stick rate go up. Happy with what I got but thought I would ask :)

[peabody124]

No they are the same, just rebased onto next so it changed the hash.

Dual gyro range (i.e. 500 deg/s versus 2000 deg/s) is practically impossible because you have to stop the gyro data to change the rate. But generally I haven't noticed a drop in performance with 2000. Why would you want to change that on the fly?

Regarding dual stick rates, I'm not clear what you mean. Like a different max rate in regular rate mode versus horizon mode on the stick extremes? I think I'm missing something.

[Jörg Rohde]

James, you make an build for windows. I have seen that other builds (next) on Jenkins are also only for windows. Are there no more builds for windows in future?

[peabody124]

I think jenkins is in a bad mood but when lilvinz is around and can kick it then it should make them again.

[pug398]

Thanks, I thought about it later and realized the digital sensor would be a problem. Not sure there would be any problem with analog but since they are being phased out it doesn't matter. Without a range change the stick rate doesn't matter but yes I was thinking a different max rate for attitude and rate mode that horizon switches between.

 

If you haven't noticed any difference in hover between 500 with low max stick rate set and 2000 with high max stick rate set then it is probably just my setup

[peabody124]

"If you haven't noticed any difference in hover between 500 with low max stick rate set and 2000 with high max stick rate set then it is probably just my setup"

Well say you stay in 2000 deg/s and then use low max rate versus high max rate. Then there will definitely be a difference in how it feels. However, I doubt if you compare low max stick rate at 500 deg/s versus low max stick rate with 2000 deg/s you will see much difference. If you think you do let me know and I will try and replicate it.

[pug398]

Actually others can try and see if they notice a difference. Just hover in a small room and see if you have to touch the sticks more in one gyro range than the other. Kind of curious now :)

[pug398]

After flying the micro sparky set for 500 and 2000 d/s with 200 stick rate I can't really tell much of a difference. The 500mm CC on the other hand seemed like more stable hover on the 500 gyro range setting. Didn't try it on the 620mm with quanton as it is flying very well as is with the camera stuff. Love the horizon mode and tried out the 600 stick rate setting this morning.  

[pug398]

First let me say once again horizon mode is great. Want to make sure I say that first :) Now having said that is there something limiting stick rate other than gyro range and max stick rate? Something that would limit roll/pitch flip (2 arms in x mode) but not arm to arm (single arm diagonal flip in x mode or like x/y flip in + mode)? Asking because I am at 1000 max rate and the speed diagonal is close to my speed using my other aerobatic firmware but the roll/pitch flip (in x mode) is a lot slower. Usually two motors powering it over in x mode is faster. I haven't tried + mode yet.

[peabody124]

I don't have the intuition to go through the geometry in my head, but I'm pretty sure to make the sensors in each axis go at 500 deg/s (for example) requires going faster across the diagonal and will result in a faster flip. It's sort of like if you were going 10 m/s east and 10 m/s north your ground speed would be close to 14 m/s.  At least I think that is what it is.

Keep in mind it probably _could_ go faster in X for a flip but it's not flipping at the fastest possible rate, it's flipping at the rate you request.

[pug398]

You may be right it may have an additive effect. My endpoints are at max on both setups so can't tell it to go any faster that way. Not a big deal. Going to get a few more acro only boards from dorkbotix and assemble them to have something to play with. My last one flew away into the sunset never to be seen again when it lost signal :(

[peabody124]

Our hardware flew away or another? Ours should be really robust to transmitter signal loss and reliably fall. I've gone over that code a lot. You do have to have your failsafe configured correctly for some trasmitters that can default to sillyness like full throttle on failsafe.

BTW email me if you'd like a Sparky instead :)

[pug398]

No this was my rate mode only board that uses L3GD20 gyro. Old school thru hole board LOL. Lack of failsafe is why it flew away. Sparky is way more advanced and failsafe works well. Kind of miss the agility of the acro board though so think I will throw one together to have something to play with.  Cost less than used kk2 board I just sold so actually will make money. That rarely happens.

[Nando]

Is is this code good to go on the old CC?

-Nando

Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

[pug398]

I'm flying "old" CC as well as Sparky version and both working great. I would try it on CC3D but that has a bad output port and only rises to 3.8v and my esc don't like it.

[Nando]

Got it, thanks.

Load it will be.

-Nando

Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

[Nando]

The UI is crashing for me in OSX 10.9.

Anyone else been able to run it on this OSX version?

-Nando

Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

[peabody124]

Can you post the crash report? This was tested by someone else on 10.9

[Nando]

I'll post the stack trace later on.

I ended up loading the GUI in a windows machine and was able to somewhere update/configure the board.

I still had a couple of crashes.

Question, I had before the latest version from OpenPilot that required the loading of the new bootloader (v4).
Will the mix of this code and that bootloader cause any problems?

-Nando

Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

[Nando]

Crash dump.

-Nando

Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

[Jörg Rohde]

James, would it be possible that you make an update with Hott Telemetrie included?

[peabody124]

here you go https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131201-4f76298f-horizon-install.exe

[pug398]

Built a couple more of the gyro only boards based on the D20 and they flip faster on diagonal just like Sparky in horizon mode so the effect must be additive and I just couldn't remember that being the case. After flying the gyro only fc a bit I began to appreciate sparky in horizon mode all over again :)

[flye]

Hi,I am a new user of TauLab and I want to use horizon mode on my old cc I have last master and read wiki but not found  bootloader to use with your GCS...

Le lundi 4 novembre 2013 20:03:03 UTC-5, peabody124 a écrit :

I was playing around with porting MultiWii horizon mode to Tau Labs today. It's pretty fun.  Supposedly this is good for FPV to be able to fly attitude and also do flips :)

http://buildandcrash.blogspot.com/2013/11/taulabs-gets-multiwii-horizon-mode.html

https://vimeo.com/78585463

OSX build: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131104-6f25da28-horizon.dmg

Windows build: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6645063/TauLabs-20131104-6f25da28-horizon.exe

[pug398]

Hi flye. My old CC board had the OP bootloader v1 on it and wouldn't talk to any newer GCS including OP. I had to use stm32 flash loader to burn later release bootloader to it and then it would work with newer GCS including TL. Not sure if you have same problem or not. Bootloader I flashed was off OP site.

[pug398]

These steps to get a compatible bootloader on the board if it won't talk to GCS

 

http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/BUILDS/Firmware+Recovery+on+Windows

 

Unless someone has an easier solution :)

[flye]

Hi pug 398,I have v3 now on my cc but for last OPGCS I need v4  but the last TL master look like OP GCS 12.10.2 so I am good with v3 but if it's like OP GCS 13.06.02 & above I need v4

My cc talk to TL GCS but which version did you load for latest TL GCS?

This link is for a brick cc mine is ok I can load bootloader with GCS halt etc.... 

Thanks

[pug398]

ok then I am not clear on what you were looking for. If you can connect to the current master GCS then you have a working bootloader. Perhaps you are asking where the current flight firmware is located which would be flight\coptercontrol\fw_coptercontrol.tlfw. I have never run the BL updater since so I still have v3 on the old board. Bootloader and flight firmware are the only two things I can think of.

[flye]

Ok will try it like this but my question was that with latest OPGCS release we need BL v4 so with TL master do we need v3 or v4?

Thanks

[Reddog]

I have one of the first CopterControls made and I have never changed the bootloader on it. Actually I have never changed a bootloader (that I am aware of) on any of the 10 or so boards I have. Just because Tau Labs and OP GCS looks the same doesn't mean they operate the same.

In short I am saying just try it and see if it works.

[peabody124]

Agreed. I don't think any of us have a clue what they have changed in the bootloader since hte fork but I'd expect v3 to probably work. Also we have our own bootloader that is a complete rewrite (backwards compatible) if you really need to update.

[flye]

Thanks everybody for help I will try it when I will receive missing parts