SEPTA Deserted/Unsafe Stations...
Nicholas Cheung
Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but that
station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that one
wins hands down).
Nick
james
I have no statistics to back this up, but the Ridge Avenue spur seems to
be the least used part of the subway-elevated system.
As far as safety is concerned, any part of SEPTA's system (or any other
system) could have occurrences like the recent one at 30th Street
Station. This act was committed by someone suffering from mental
illness, and he could have traveled to any part of the city to find a
victim. For whatever reason, he was at 30th Street.
69th Street Terminal is a very busy place during the day. People move
into and out of the Terminal quickly, and although there are a few
stores inside (very few!), it doesn't seem to be the place to linger. I
wouldn't put 69th Street on the most dangerous list, but I'm going by my
own feelings, not stats. There seems to be a fair share of police
presence to deter crime.
George Robbins
>I've heard the the Ridge Spur is pretty much a no man's land line, with
>Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
>these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
>
>I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but that
>station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
>
>Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
69th street is fine, due to the amount of traffic. The main waiting
room tends to be a bit of homeless/nowhereelsetogo hangout and the
main Market Street bus stop can get a little wierd after midnight,
along with the Market Street owl busses.
Some of the Frankford end El Stations (like Berks) win marks for
desolation, the Market end ones are usually pretty well populated.
The station rennovation will certainly help things look better and
improving lighting, but the neighborhood demographics aren't likely
to change.
>What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
>unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that one
>wins hands down).
North Philly (the Pennsy one) is actually not bad since it's been
rennovated and the new shopping center. There are usually people
around. I've found North Broad (Reading) is ok, though I could see
how it could be scary being out of sight on the street and not knowing
who might be coming down the stairs. Wayne Junction I think wins some
prizes for looking down on it's heels and desolate.
A lot of this really depends on your perception of what's scary or
threatening - muggers, rapists, rowdy groups, drunks, mentally-ill
or weird acting people, beggars, vs the probability that there will
be enough normal people on hand to lend a sense of security. This
isn't really specific to SEPTA stations, it's a part of being in
Philly and the obstacle course between A & B.
--
George Robbins - now working for work: g...@netaxs.com
Net Access - seemed like the best uucp: ...!uunet!netaxs.com!grr
way to help improve service... play: g...@tharsis.com
m scutti
Center is a little shady, even during the day! I don't know. Norristown
has been going through a lot of transition - hasn't every section of the
city? - but even at noon, when I had to walk from the NTC to the Police
Station, it was kind of creepy!
Also, I would have to say the R5 Overbrook Station is getting a little
undesirable. I've been also noticing that parts of the R7 have been looking
a bit creepy. The stations are in the boondocks and if your ride is not
already there to pick you up, forget about waiting somewhere safe. Most of
the stops on the regional lines do not have waiting areas. They are usually
open during morning rush-hour only.
Heck, if you looked at every station with a critical eye, each of us would
find some little thing with each station weird or shady! As a frequent user
of SEPTA since I am sans car, I find, overall, the system quite good.
Instead of using the Ridge Spur line, how about using buses? I work in the
University City area and when it gets dark and there are no students or
commuters walking to the 34th Street El Station, I'll take the 42 bus to 2nd
Street and walk through Old City to the 2nd Street El Station. Lots of
restaurants and outdoor cafes give the area a safe feeling.
----------
In article <399DE6C2...@fastdial.net>, Nicholas Cheung
<gold...@fastdial.net> wrote:
> I've heard the the Ridge Spur is pretty much a no man's land line, with
> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
>
> I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but that
> station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
>
> Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
>
> What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
> unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that one
> wins hands down).
>
> Nick
GeneJYao
It is decently clean, well attended, and the design is open and transparent
enough to lend a sense of security. The rest of the stations are kind of hairy.
5th Street is decent by day but desolate at nigh (they might as well shut it
down at night). I think 5th street's smallness makes it feel safe since you
don't feel like people can sneak up on you. 15th Street is probably also among
the best simply because it is often crowded. However, it does have more than
its fair share of "weirdness".
Much of the problem with the Market line is that it is several blocks north
from where it should be. It should run down Walnut, which has basically taken
over as the central E-W spine through Center City and West Philly. Sure the
office blocks are still on Market, but many of the office commuters come in via
the train.
Me
"Nicholas Cheung" <gold...@fastdial.net> wrote in message
news:399DE6C2...@fastdial.net...
> I've heard the the Ridge Spur is pretty much a no man's land line, with
> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
I have been riding the subway to/from work for the past two weeks.
I usually travel on the subway during rush hour and I usually see
some people disembark or board the train at the Fairmount station.
Just this morning, I took the Ridge Spur from 8th & Market Sts.
Considering that it was a weekend morning, there were quite a few
people on the train. I was reading a magazine so I didn't notice who
got off the train where.
George Robbins
>I would have to say, from personal experience, the Norristown Transportation
>Center is a little shady, even during the day! I don't know. Norristown
>has been going through a lot of transition - hasn't every section of the
>city? - but even at noon, when I had to walk from the NTC to the Police
>Station, it was kind of creepy!
Norristown is worst in cold/rainy weather. The local "homeless" hang
out at the top of the elevator waiting area, because they know that
cops cruising by or even checking out the main waiting area aren't
going to see them, and most of the time no passing SEPTA employee is
going to roust them, plus there's a public rest-room. The general
bus-station, the rail-station and the general area aren't that bad.
Are you in a "bad" neighborhood? When I've walked around, it's more
bleak/depressed and a block or two down from the main streets, than bad.
The late-night return to Norristown R100 can also be about as rowdy
as the owl-busses. At least on the El or regional rail, you can move
away from rowdy/offensive people.
>Also, I would have to say the R5 Overbrook Station is getting a little
>undesirable. I've been also noticing that parts of the R7 have been looking
>a bit creepy. The stations are in the boondocks and if your ride is not
>already there to pick you up, forget about waiting somewhere safe. Most of
>the stops on the regional lines do not have waiting areas. They are usually
>open during morning rush-hour only.
>
>Heck, if you looked at every station with a critical eye, each of us would
>find some little thing with each station weird or shady!
Any of the stations are risk points, either for assault or just having
to put up with scary/offensive behavior, especially for the single
person who doesn't have a ride waiting or willing to hang around till
the train comes. If you're on the platform waiting for a train and
some threatening/offensive individual wanders by, where are you supposed
to go?
OTOH, how far can you expect SEPTA to go? Open/staffed waiting rooms
at every station, for the entire time that the system is running are
unlikely. Reasonable steps would be increased video monitoring of
major stops, add panic/attention buttons and emgergency phones, and
increase cooperation with city/local police and making it clear that
SEPTA employees need to call for police action when someone is setting
up camp at their station or causing a ruckus on the bus/train.
> As a frequent user
>of SEPTA since I am sans car, I find, overall, the system quite good.
>Instead of using the Ridge Spur line, how about using buses? I work in the
>University City area and when it gets dark and there are no students or
>commuters walking to the 34th Street El Station, I'll take the 42 bus to 2nd
>Street and walk through Old City to the 2nd Street El Station. Lots of
>restaurants and outdoor cafes give the area a safe feeling.
>
>----------
>In article <399DE6C2...@fastdial.net>, Nicholas Cheung
><gold...@fastdial.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I've heard the the Ridge Spur is pretty much a no man's land line, with
>> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
>> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
>>
>> I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but that
>> station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
>>
>> Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
>>
>> What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
>> unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that one
>> wins hands down).
>>
>> Nick
Karen Byrd
gene...@aol.com (GeneJYao) wrote:
While I grew up and lived in the Phila. 'burbs for years I still ended up
interacting with the city a lot(having worked in it for 25+ years) during
that time and I have ridden pub trans
most of my life. I simply do not feel any of this "weirdness" or sense
any feelings of insecurity being in stations at night. I have done so
many, many times. Late at night. Very early in the morning before
6am, etc.
As far as the Market Line being "blocks away". It's two block from Walnut.
A 5 minute walk. The fact that CC is so compact makes just about everything
walkable in CC.
--
Karen Byrd
Exile on Market Street
> OTOH, how far can you expect SEPTA to go? Open/staffed waiting rooms
> at every station, for the entire time that the system is running are
> unlikely. Reasonable steps would be increased video monitoring of
> major stops, add panic/attention buttons and emgergency phones, and
> increase cooperation with city/local police and making it clear that
> SEPTA employees need to call for police action when someone is setting
> up camp at their station or causing a ruckus on the bus/train.
Speaking of emergency phones:
There is already an emergency phone system in place on the rapid-transit
lines and in the trolley subway, with call boxes on the platforms (one per
platform). There are no phones in the mezzanines of the unstaffed trolley
subway stations, but since people only pass through these rather than wait
for trains there, their lack is probably not serious. (Aside: I notice a
couple of homeless people have been sleeping in the 36th St mezzanine of
late.)
However, about a year ago now, new emergency phones were installed on all
the station platforms, but these have never been put into service. What up
wit' dat? Did they get the call boxes but not the control center? Run out
of money mid-project? Supplier go belly up? I haven't heard word one
about this.
--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Managing Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
"I have friends who live in Denver...They gnash their teeth when I tell
them that Denver is Wichita with mountains..."
-------"Captain Billy" in the _Salon_ "Table Talk" thread on Kansas City--
Exile on Market Street
> I've heard the the Ridge Spur is pretty much a no man's land line, with
> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
Probably. The Ridge Spur is lightly used to begin with, and the only
station on the spur alone, Chinatown, is not near any real traffic
generators (reaching the heart of Chinatown is about as easy from 8th and
Market as it is from 8th (Ridge) and Race/9th (Ridge) and Vine). Perhaps
if Mayor Street actually succeeds in getting that ballpark built at the
site he wants, there might be an excuse to reopen the closed Spring Garden
station on the spur someday, but that would probably not be until/unless
the area along that stretch of Spring Garden redevelops more after (if)
it's built.
Someone posted that it might work out better to use the bus to reach Ridge
Spur points if safety is a concern. So: does the 61 operate frequently at
off hours? (And come to think of it, I don't think the 61 runs along Ridge
east of Broad, as the Vine Expressway and Ridge Ave cross at 9th St, the
point where the highway is at grade.)
Broad and Fairmount is kind of shabby, but I wouldn't characterize the area
as a no man's land.
dguru...@my-deja.com
Was the Broad-Ridge spur designed to go further?
Looking at a map it appeart to terminate at 8th. street in a akward
manner. Did it use to continue down the tunnels now used by PATCO?
>
> --
> Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 /
smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
> Managing Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_
cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
> Penn Web Team -- Web Editor
webm...@isc.upenn.edu
> I speak for myself here, not Penn
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
>
> "I have friends who live in Denver...They gnash their teeth when I
tell
> them that Denver is Wichita with mountains..."
> -------"Captain Billy" in the _Salon_ "Table Talk" thread on Kansas
City--
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris
Locust, and then west under Locust to 18th. When plans for a southwest
Philly subway fell through, the tunnel was left without use. After the
Bridge Line (now PATCO) openned in '36, they later extended operations
through that Locust tunnel west to 15/16 in '53.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Christopher Muller
RailServe Network
Web: http://www.railserve.com
E-mail: webm...@railserve.com
Exile on Market Street
[somebody else already answered your question]
Dharm, is that you?
Where are you working these days?
Isaacshome
> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
As a *daily* rider on the Broad Ridge Spur during its most crowded hours, I
would say that riding through from the main line to 8th and Market is very
safe. If you ride at my times (before school and after school) the train may
get very noisy, and you may not get a seat, but it will not be unsafe. As for
other times, the train may often be empty, but I have never felt unsafe on the
Ridge Spur during the daytime. I would feel safe at Chinatown, (mostly due to
its architecture, since it is small), but Fairmount would be scary, if not
unsafe. It is very deserted there, but is actually the most well lit station
on the line.
> I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but that
> station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
Some Frankford el stations can get a little scary during the off hours,
especially those unrenovated, but still should be fine. Their being elevated
makes things less scary in general when its light out (I feel)
> Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
When I go there (daytime) yes. Its a fine place to make a transfer.
> What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
> unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that one
> wins hands down).
North Philadelphia on the R7 (PRR) is supposedly pretty fine. North
Philadelphia station on the Broad Street subway (as do some other places on the
Broad Street subway) makes Philadelphia look like a ghost town. The platform
can hold 10 cars, but only half of that is used on the local tracks, and 1/5 of
that is used on the express tracks, where only ridge spur trains (2 car) stop
there. (In case you care, which you probably don't, on the express tracks, the
2 car ridge trains, with the exception of Olney station, have their stopping
boards somewhat further back in the station than the 5 car Walnut expresses.
While this is true at North Philadephia, southbound ridge trains will not stop
at the stopping board labled "2", but rather as far up in the station as
possible) If you are there, you probably should wait no more than 135 feet (2
cars legnth) from the Lehigh Avenue stairs, and as close to the stairs as
possible, in case you need to run. I have changed trains on the southbound
platform a few times when I felt brave, and when there were people there.
For the most part, I say that SEPTA platforms, though they can get deserted and
scary, should be for the most part safe during midday hours.
Isaac Shomer
Isaacshome
> of SEPTA since I am sans car, I find, overall, the system quite good.
> Instead of using the Ridge Spur line, how about using buses?
Most ridge spur trips (since they go to 8th and Market anyway) would be
replaced by a subway ride to City Hall station, served by local and express
trains, and a free transfer there to the Market Frankford Line, which one would
ride to 8th. As for Fairmount, one should probably wait for the local (which
stops on a regular platform) even if the spur comes first, because the time it
takes to get up the steps from the lower (spur) platform may equal the time it
takes for the extra wait for the local. As for Chinatown, it would be foolish
to get off at Fairmount and wait for the southbound 61 because
A: It would take a lot of extra time
B: It would probably be more unsafe to wait on the street on Broad and Ridge
than to take the spur.
As for going northbound, if luck is with you, take the 61, but the northbound
stop is not that close to Chinatown.
Isaac Shomer
Isaacshome
> from where it should be. It should run down Walnut, which has basically taken
> over as the central E-W spine through Center City and West Philly.
While Walnut Street west of Broad can be more high class than Market, the
bigger buildings are generally closer to Market than Walnut. As for east of
city hall, the gallery area around 11th Street station provides a lot of
traffic, much more than would be provided if it went down Walnut (what is on
Walnut, well, hospitals. They would not generate nearly as much traffic as the
gallery, and would probably recieve very few more people if the el was under
Walnut).
As for west Phila, well, there are many bus transfers, and Walnut is only 2
blocks away. It would not matter much.
Isaac Shomer
Isaacshome
> Fairmount being no man's land and Chinatown very infrequently used. Are
> these two stations the least used on the entire SEPTA system?
As for the least used rapid transit station, I would guess funky little
Millbourne. But they are up there.
Isaac Shomer
Isaacshome
> Locust, and then west under Locust to 18th. When plans for a southwest
> Philly subway fell through, the tunnel was left without use. After the
> Bridge Line (now PATCO) openned in '36, they later extended operations
> through that Locust tunnel west to 15/16 in '53.
My take on the story was that the first days of the Ridge spur were not as a
spur but rather as part of the Bridge Line. I thought that the Ridge spur was
cut back to a spur in 1953 when the Locust Street tunnel opened, and bridge
trains (later PATCO) terminated there. That data was from the PATCO book by
Mr. William Vigrass.
Isaac Shomer
lwin
> spur but rather as part of the Bridge Line. I thought that the Ridge spur was
> cut back to a spur in 1953 when the Locust Street tunnel opened, and bridge
> trains (later PATCO) terminated there. That data was from the PATCO book by
> Mr. William Vigrass.
Over the years, various combinations of trains were operated between
Ridge Ave, Locust St, and the Bridge; it also varied on time of day.
George Robbins
GeneJYao
>The platform can hold 10 cars, but only half of that >is used on the local
tracks, and 1/5 of that is used >on the express tracks>>
Did SEPTA ever run 10-car trains?
lwin
The platforms are 8 cars long, not 10.
SEPTA never did. If PTC did, it was many years ago, perhaps during
WW II. During the war, PTC modified the "North Broad" (older set)
cars to have fewer seats and more standing room, that's why some
seats had weird leg room against the adjacent seat. Originally
they had more seated space.
Isaacshome
> > tracks, and 1/5 of that is used on the express tracks
> Did SEPTA ever run 10-car trains?
I remember hearing from somewhere, but don't quote me on this, that PTC used to
run 8 car trains in the Broad Street Subway. Now, the marking boards only go
up to 6, and 5 is the usual on local and express, 2 the usual on ridge spur.
Fern Rock cannot quite hold 6 cars, but has a "6" stopping board. The Ridge
spur is limited to 2 cars because of Fairmount Station. As for other
combinations, I've heard stories about 4 car locals on weekends, but am not
sure. I know nothing about 3 car trains.
Isaac Shomer
Chris
built for the Bridge Line as explained in my prior post. That is also supported by
the Philadelphia transit book by Gerry Williams. I do have that PATCO book as
well, and so from what you say it seems there is a conflict there. The difference
may be in what served particular locations rather than use and completion dates of
specific tunnels.
~ Chris
dickwyll
before 1959 there was no express track or service. The line had to handle
all the traffic on two tracks. I grew up using North Phila in the 50's and
60's. Trains were set to always stop closest to the Lehigh Ave. side, but I
do remember the tail of SB trains coming almost to the PRR station stairway
during rush hour. At that stairway, there was a newstand on the platform
right up against where the express track would later go in. There must have
been a tremendous amount of traffic coming off the PRR into the subway.
Almost all trains to and from the west stopped only at North Phila, not 30th
St.
Ridge Ave platforms could hold 6 cars at rush hour, and in the 50's and
60's, four car trains were used during non rush. I think the 6 car trains,
if they were ever used, were only on through (from Olney) rush hour trains
that started operating after the express track was put in. I don't think
there was ever any through service before that, though I could be wrong. I
also remember, though I am not sure, that rush hour Ridge trains sometimes
went through to 16th St. Look behind the partition at Fairmount and you'll
see that the platform was a lot longer.
Isaacshome wrote in message
<20000825211109...@ng-cn1.aol.com>...
Isaacshome
originally
> built for the Bridge Line as explained in my prior post.
True. I learned it was built for a loop subway around Center City that was
never finished, and was never used until 1953 when incorperated with the bridge
line, which would later be PATCO.
Also, supposedly the seperate levels of stations at 8th and Market was not
built until the Locust Street tunnel came into use, and the Ridge Spur stopped
being the Bridge Spur (all ridge trains terminated at 8th and Market, none went
to Camden).
Isaac Shomer
dickwyll
physical separation was needed between PATCO and the Ridge Ave line. By
that time, ridership was already down on the Ridge Ave. line and there was
no further need for it to go past 8th & Market.
Isaacshome wrote in message
<20000826200419...@ng-fh1.aol.com>...
lwin
> built until the Locust Street tunnel came into use, and the Ridge Spur stopped
> being the Bridge Spur (all ridge trains terminated at 8th and Market, none went
> to Camden).
Some corrections:
1) The double level at 8th & Market was built in 1968 to accomodate
the new PATCO line--which was totally separate from the PTC system.
Before that, all trains ended on the 'lower' level. The construction
also forced the 'suspension' of streetcar route 47, which never returned.
2) Over the years before PATCO, there were various combinations of
service between Locust Street, the Bridge Line, and the Ridge Spur.
Indeed, service varied depending on the time of day--at times
the Locust St subway was closed during off peak hours, and trains
from Ridge would go back out to Camden. It is inaccurate to
describe any one service pattern because so many were offered.
Creighton Rabs
isaac...@aol.com (Isaacshome) wrote:
> > I've seen that Berks was a safety hazard before the renovation, but
that
> > station still spooks me out even with the renovation going on.
>
> Some Frankford el stations can get a little scary during the off
hours,
> especially those unrenovated, but still should be fine. Their being
elevated
> makes things less scary in general when its light out (I feel)
I have to agree about Berks. Even in the daytime, I won't get off there
under any circumstances.
> > Is 69th St Terminal OK in terms of safety?
>
> When I go there (daytime) yes. Its a fine place to make a transfer.
Safe, that's questionable at best. There are a lot of undesirables who
hang out there during the day. I would call police presense minimal, at
best (the same could really be said systemwide) compared to, say, New
York City, NJ Transit, and Baltimore.
Away from 69th St, I don't feel to comfortable in that area after dark.
My real complaint at 69th St is the horrible conditions of the lone
working restrooms at the terminal. The restrooms near the El cashier
booth have been out of order for what seems like 2 years, while the
restrooms near the trolley/bus loop are in such horrible condition, I
wouldn't even recomend a dog use it. It's just that horrible.
> > What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
> > unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that
one
> > wins hands down).
Millbourne is a horrible place to wait at night and on weekends, since
the station is at grade and there's nobody there during evening and
weekend hours. I won't even set foot in Millbourne at all.
--
----- Creighton Rabs - West Chester, Pa. -----
"My partner has an overactive imagination."
-- Richard Belzer as Det. John Munch on "Law & Order: SVU"
Isaacshome
> > > unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that
one
> > > wins hands down).
> Millbourne is a horrible place to wait at night and on weekends, since
> the station is at grade and there's nobody there during evening and
> weekend hours. I won't even set foot in Millbourne at all.
Funny, I've used that station a lot to get off, but never to get on. A lot of
times transfering one way is much safer than transfering another. For
example, I'd be a little scared to transfer from the el to the 52 bus, even in
broad daylight, but I would not be scared to do it the other way, since I would
not have to wait on the street as much. Same with 69th. I found it safe
because I used it much more to transfer to the el than from the el.
Isaac Shomer
Karen Byrd
isaac...@aol.com (Isaacshome) wrote:
> > > > What stations do you place on your blacklist in terms of deserted or
> > > > unsafe (don't remind about North Philadelphia, because I know that
> one
> > > > wins hands down).
>
> > Millbourne is a horrible place to wait at night and on weekends, since
> > the station is at grade and there's nobody there during evening and
> > weekend hours. I won't even set foot in Millbourne at all.
>
> Funny, I've used that station a lot to get off, but never to get on.
He's in West Chester. What in blazes does he know about Millbourne anyhow?
I go through Millbourne almost daily. I've never see anything going on
that's off-putting. This is based on years and years of observation.
He probably wouldn't set foot in any of West Phila. either because it's
oh so terrifying.
> A lot of
> times transfering one way is much safer than transfering another. For
> example, I'd be a little scared to transfer from the el to the 52 bus, even in
> broad daylight, but I would not be scared to do it the other way, since
I would
> not have to wait on the street as much. Same with 69th. I found it safe
> because I used it much more to transfer to the el than from the el.
I agree about the restrooms being a mess in 69th St Terminal. They always
have been. At least all of my lifetime. But the Terminal itself I have
never had a problem being a lone single woman. I've been there early
morning, late at night. No problems at all.
--
Karen Byrd
CouchOnRoof
>> > > > unsafe
deserted is safe...it when its gets crowded that you get your pocket picked or
harassed by the psycho homeless guy. Not to mention the tuberculosis riddled
air in one of those market frankford el cars....
do the safe thing in the city...steal a car.
George Robbins
>In article <20000920220248...@ng-fx1.aol.com>,
>isaac...@aol.com (Isaacshome) wrote:
>
>> one
>> > > > wins hands down).
>>
>> > Millbourne is a horrible place to wait at night and on weekends, since
>> > the station is at grade and there's nobody there during evening and
>> > weekend hours. I won't even set foot in Millbourne at all.
>>
>> Funny, I've used that station a lot to get off, but never to get on.
>
>He's in West Chester. What in blazes does he know about Millbourne anyhow?
>I go through Millbourne almost daily. I've never see anything going on
>that's off-putting. This is based on years and years of observation.
>
>He probably wouldn't set foot in any of West Phila. either because it's
>oh so terrifying.
This all goes back to perceptions about what's safe and what isn't.
What's "safe" for one person in terms of actual risks is different
from another (sex/size/race/whatever), what's perceived as safe based
on experiences, reading & old-wives tales is also different.
One person may look at Millbourne and see mostly isolated, no loitering
suspects, ok community and say "safe", another one may see isolation,
nobody in a million miles, but right next to the "under the el" bit of
in West Philly and go "danger, danger!".
The same two people may have the opposite perceptions about the relatively
bustling 69th street terminal. Both of them may be radically wrong based
on actual crime statistics, or confounded by the fickle finger of fate.
>I agree about the restrooms being a mess in 69th St Terminal. They always
>have been. At least all of my lifetime. ...
Who could argue!