Do's and Don'ts
Maximum Woman
Greetings, folks. In some correspondence recently I was trying to give a
man some tips on how to be a good date. Anyone care to add in? Here are
some of the things I think are important--didn't change the gendered
language, but they are tips for everyone regardless of sex:
* If you go out to eat, be sure to be polite to the waitstaff. If the
person is female, don't use terms like "sweetie" towards them--use their
name, or "Miss" or "Ma'am." Also TIP FAIRLY. I cannot stress this
enough. Lots of people are turned off by bad tippers. This excludes, of
course, low tipping in response to bad service.
* If you have to wait in line, or there is some other inconvenience, don't
rant and rave and complain forever about it. An occasional "Wow, I can't
believe this line!" is okay, but don't make a running litany of it. In
the end, since there isn't much you can do about it besides leave, you
waste valuable time talking about it.
* Dress well, even if it's a "casual" date. You don't have to wear a
suit, but make sure your clothes match, and are well-kept and clean. It's
sort of like a job interview that way. Better to be overdressed than
underdressed.
* Be sure you're well-groomed. Nails should be clean and trimmed. Pop an
Altoid if you're not sure your breath is fresh. Make sure you don't have
things caught in your teeth.
* Arrive with a definite idea of at least one or two things you want to
discuss with the person. If they have an interesting job or hobby, for
example, keep it in mind as a conversation topic for when the conversaton
stagnates. For such situations you can also have a CLEAN joke ready to
tell, or you can just admit you're feeling awkward and share an
embarrassed laugh.
* Listen interactively. Nodding and "uh-huh"ing are basics. Bonus
points, in my book, go to men who also have something to say back, or who
ask questions. If you look away for whatever reason, make sure to let the
person know you are still listening.
* Be careful with the bill. This is a VERY delicate area where just about
anything can get you into trouble with some woman or other. Most women
will not be offended if you offer to pay, or will at least demur politely.
Ask her "Are you sure?" if you like, but if she says "Yes, really, I
prefer to pay my own way," LET HER. Nothing turned me off more in my
militant-dutch-treat days than a man who acted as though his very life
depended on his paying my way. However, I am NOT saying that you SHOULD
pay for the date if you think for whatever reason that you shouldn't--if
I was a man I would have a hard time understanding why I was expected to
pay for everything. Just know that if you don't, there are some women
who, regardless of anything else, will not see you again.
* WRT any other expenditures, be low-key. If you have to park in a
garage, for example, to meet the person, don't bitch about the cost of the
garage. It makes you look cheap. And it would make me want to say "What,
was I not worth the seven bucks?"
* If you're answering a personal ad, make sure you read it closely. If
you don't fit into the stated criteria, don't make the date and then
assume you can charm her. If you feel compelled to write, do so and say
"I know I don't fit all your criteria but I thought you sounded
interesting so I thought I would write and let you make the call." Then
let her make the moves. And don't get offended if she doesn't respond. I
have very specific criteria in my ads, and I invariably get men responding
to them who absolutely don't fit. I don't even respond to them.
* Be thoughtful. I know that sounds like obvious advice, but I'm being
quite serious. If the woman never uses swearwords in her correspondence
to that point, that might mean she finds them offensive, so use them
sparingly if at all. If she has a web page, READ IT THOROUGHLY and use
the information--I personally dream of going on a first date with a man
who brings me gummy bears because I mention on my page that gummies are
one of my favorite foods.
* Accept rejection gracefully. There is nothing more pathetic than
someone who gets defensive and pissy because you're not interested. If
the rejection is given politely, there is absolutely no reason not to
accept it that way. Better to leave her with memories of how polite and
clueful you were--who knows, she might at some point decide she wants to
get together again. But if you get bitchy when she turns you down, you
have ruined all chances. And if you have an instinctive, truly
unstoppable reaction, like you burst into tears (I've done this!), make
sure they know you aren't trying to manipulate them or guilt them. (If
you ARE trying to do so, you are scum.)
Good things,
Maximum Woman
"Now we're cooking with evil gas!"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dig my page, baby: http://www.op.net/~maxwoman is waiting for you
sls
Max,
I have to agree with the suggestions in your post. I thought the details of
one of my worst dates might help. So here goes:
I met this guy on-line and wasn't completely smitten, but thought I had
nothing to lose so...He gave me the choice of the Olive Garden or
Chi-Chi's. Not great first date spots, but I didn't say anything. I chose
Olive Garden. He picked me up. When we went to get in the car, he did not
open the door for me. I don't always think this is a requirement, however,
I could not get the door open. It was one of those push, lift, pull, shake,
turn yourself around to open doors! I think he should have opened the door.
His entire lunch remains for the last week were still on the floor of the
car!! Hint: Clean your vehicle!!
When we got to the restaurant, he was given a pager for our wait. The pager
signaled almost immediately. He asked to hostess to page him again because
he had not had a chance to put the pager in his pocket yet!! Hint: Don't
make sexual jokes in the first 10 minutes of the date!!
When ordering, he ordered off the menu-"Can the chef prepare for me.....???
Hint: If you are trying to impress a date with your culinary
expertise-don't choose Olive Garden to start with!!
When we left the restaurant, he had no idea what he wanted to do. I had
made several suggestions before the date, but he had obviously shot those
down without my knowledge! He ended up driving me 30 minutes to show me
where he shops for his kids clothes! Hint: Have a clue as to what you and
your date will be doing.
When he left my house, he promised to call to get together again. Of course
he didn't. MAJOR HINT: Don't say you are going to call if you have no
intention of doing it!
The most humorous thing about this date: I laugh every time I think that he
didn't call me back, so I must have been the bad date!!
I think the most important thing about any date should be HONESTY.
Hope my mortifying experience helps someone, anyone have one better date!
Sharon
NicestAlan
Dear Max,
Part of my ritual in preparing for a date is to bring flowers. I do it because
I personally love flowers, not because anyone suggested it to me. I'd be
interested in hearing what others have to say about this practice.
Bringing flowers has do's and don'ts of its own, to wit:
- Don't bring the cheap sale bouquet from the supermarket. Get something
decent. On the other hand, don't show up with a dozen long-stemmed roses on a
casual first date, either. It makes it look like you're trying to buy
something.
- Also avoid orchids, redolent of senior proms, suggestive of genitalia. Avoid
gladiolas or anything that requires an enormous vase, unless you know she has
one.
- Some things I've felt were tasteful: A single perfect red rose well-dressed
with greens and baby's breath or similar accents, and a ribbon; a
better-quality seasonal bouquet with perhaps a rose or two in it; freesias in
season.
- I look for what's in season and is absolutely, absolutely fresh and in
perfect condition. A good florist will respect you if you are picky about
quality. (A single guy who buys flowers is an annuity to them!) Consider your
drive time, and get water tubes if needed to keep the flowers fresh. Never put
flowers in the trunk. Ask your florist how to keep them fresh, and ask them to
steer you away from anything that won't survive the trip.
- The flower purchase is a good time to think about the person that you're
about to see. What do you know about her? Is she a dramatic, romantic,
red-rose type? An earthy, wildflower person? The sensual, perfumed freesia
type? What are her favorite colors? It kind of "psyches me up" for a
date--and keeps me busy so I don't have a chance to be nervous!
- When you give someone flowers, it's a romantic gesture. It gets the date off
to a good start. You've got a task to do together: finding a vase, cutting the
stems, putting them in fresh water. Just that little joint activity tells you
a lot about each other. Offer to help. Does she let you? Does she boss you
around? Does she own a vase? Is it Waterford crystal or a cut-down Coke
bottle? You get a quick look around the house or apartment, which can help
conversation flow later.
- Very rarely, I'll show up with flowers for someone who's allergic.
Obviously, you don't bring flowers if you know this ahead of time. But if it
happens, accept this gracefully. Even if she's allergic, she's not going to
call her friends up on the phone tomorrow and say, "You know what that jerk
did, he brought me flowers!"
- Only bring flowers on a first date if you're a "flower person" who's going to
show up with flowers again on other occasions. You don't want her singing,
"You Don't Bring Me Flowers Any More".
Disclaimer: 1) I'm not a florist (though I grow mini-roses on my apartment
balcony). 2) Obviously, if I really knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't
still be single.
Alan
Wilmington, DE
http://members.aol.com/NicestAlan/
Maximum Woman
On 6 Jul 1998, sls wrote:
> I have to agree with the suggestions in your post. I thought the details of
> one of my worst dates might help. So here goes:
Oh boy, a story!
> I met this guy on-line and wasn't completely smitten, but thought I had
> nothing to lose so...He gave me the choice of the Olive Garden or
> Chi-Chi's. Not great first date spots, but I didn't say anything.
I would be perfectly okay with going to either of those for a first date
(except I'm not a big pasta person). AAMOF, I usually on first dates, go
to a cheaper place, like a diner--and I'm the one who suggests it. I'm
curious, what are good date spots to you? What is wrong with the places
you mentioned?
> I chose Olive Garden. He picked me up. When we went to get in the car,
> he did not open the door for me. I don't always think this is a
> requirement
No, but definitely shows a bit of class. I generally open the door myself
before the guy even gets to it, but if he got there first and opened it I
would be impressed.
>, however, I could not get the door open. It was one of those
> push, lift, pull, shake, turn yourself around to open doors! I think he
> should have opened the door.
Definitely!! Did he even assist you when he saw you were having trouble?
Like you, I'm not huge on door opening as a necessity, but if you know
that a device is troublesome in some way, you should let the person know.
> His entire lunch remains for the last week
> were still on the floor of the car!! Hint: Clean your vehicle!!
Oh god YES!! That is truly disgusting. I don't know what it is about my
friends, but they all have really messy vehicles. I had one friend, you
had to clear a space to put your feet down! Not attractive. It's a good
thing I already liked them.
Another bit of car etiquette: Music should be low enough not to interfere
at all with conversation. I personally don't like music at all when I'm
trying to talk to someone, because I find it so distracting.
> When we got to the restaurant, he was given a pager for our wait. The pager
> signaled almost immediately. He asked to hostess to page him again because
> he had not had a chance to put the pager in his pocket yet!! Hint: Don't
> make sexual jokes in the first 10 minutes of the date!!
TACKY!!!! And I wouldn't even mind a sexual joke if it was any good--but
that is the oldest joke. I wonder how many times the hostess had heard
it.
> When ordering, he ordered off the menu-"Can the chef prepare for me.....???
> Hint: If you are trying to impress a date with your culinary
> expertise-don't choose Olive Garden to start with!!
Again, I'm curious as to why you feel that way.
> When we left the restaurant, he had no idea what he wanted to do. I had
> made several suggestions before the date, but he had obviously shot
> those down without my knowledge! He ended up driving me 30 minutes to
> show me where he shops for his kids clothes! Hint: Have a clue as to
> what you and your date will be doing.
Yeah. Talk about it, make a decision...the fact that he didn't even
acknowledge your suggestions is especially galling.
> When he left my house, he promised to call to get together again. Of course
> he didn't. MAJOR HINT: Don't say you are going to call if you have no
> intention of doing it!
ROTFL I agree in theory, but in practice that IS an awkward situation.
Though I know it's not the best thing to do, I can totally understand why
someone would do it.
> The most humorous thing about this date: I laugh every time I think that he
> didn't call me back, so I must have been the bad date!!
Yeah! It just goes to show you, men are GENERALLY a lot less demanding of
themselves than women are. "A woman will spend hours on her hair,
choosing the right outfit, switching shoes, applying makeup. A man will
put on a clean t-shirt. Sometimes."
> I think the most important thing about any date should be HONESTY.
Tactful honesty. There is no value in being honest to the point of insult
and hurt.
> Hope my mortifying experience helps someone, anyone have one better date!
Thanks for sharing. I knew you'd fit in around here! :)
sls
Alan,
I have not received flowers from a man since Valentine's Day 1995. The fact
that my then-husband gave an identical bouquet to his girlfriend was not
supposed to upset me! I think that most men feel that flowers are too
romantic (and most women believe that there is no such thing as too
romantic)!
Sharon
NicestAlan <nices...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807061410...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
sls
Maximum Woman <maxw...@op.net> wrote in article
<Pine.SUN.3.96.98070...@monet.op.net>...
>
> On 6 Jul 1998, sls wrote:
>
> > I have to agree with the suggestions in your post. I thought the
details of
> > one of my worst dates might help. So here goes:
>
> Oh boy, a story!
>
> > I met this guy on-line and wasn't completely smitten, but thought I had
> > nothing to lose so...He gave me the choice of the Olive Garden or
> > Chi-Chi's. Not great first date spots, but I didn't say anything.
>
> I would be perfectly okay with going to either of those for a first date
> (except I'm not a big pasta person). AAMOF, I usually on first dates, go
> to a cheaper place, like a diner--and I'm the one who suggests it. I'm
> curious, what are good date spots to you? What is wrong with the places
> you mentioned?
Not that there is really anything wrong with either choice. Just sort of
the way it was done. Really no discussion....just pick one.
I sort of feel like Olive Garden is an Italian fast food place. They really
don't go off the menu much. I would prefer one of those quiet and usually
cheap strip mall Italian places if you want something special.
I would certainly never knowingly hurt someone's feelings. But I feel that
not being honest can hurt as much as if not more that honesty. (Trying to
refrain from ex bitterness here!!)
NicestAlan
Dear Sharon,
Ouch! You have my sympathy. (Too bad one can't send a sympathy bouquet via
E-mail :-)
Flowers make a statement, and from the fact that you're reading phl.singles, it
looks like you got the message!
(BTW I NEVER use flowers to apologize. I don't want someone to think, "What's
he feeling guilty for?" any time I show up with a bunch of daisies.)
I like the romantic aspect of it all. Must be my feminine side. Yin/yang, and
all that.
Alan
NicestAlan
Culinary issues aside, Chi-Chi's and the Olive Garden are generic and uniform.
Such a choice suggests little effort went into choosing just the right place
for the individual. This in turn implies that dates themselves are not
individuals, but rather are generic commodities, to be scooped in bulk from a
bin like nails in an old-fashioned hardware store.
It amazes me to see the lines outside the Olive Garden on Saturday night, when
adorable little diners, holes in the wall, and ethnic restaurants are pleasant,
delicious, economical, and uncrowded. One of my favorite places was an
authentic Mexican restaurant frequented by immigrant Mexican mushroom workers
from nearby Kennett Square. The food was great, it was inexpensive, and the
colorful characters in the place stimulated lively conversation.
sls
NicestAlan <nices...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807061800...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Dear Sharon,
>
> Ouch! You have my sympathy. (Too bad one can't send a sympathy bouquet
via
> E-mail :-)
Oh, but you can! I personally use www.omnicity.com to send flowers, teddy
bears, etc. to men I find an interest in!
>
> Flowers make a statement, and from the fact that you're reading
phl.singles, it
> looks like you got the message!
>
It was more than flowers, trust me!
Evgueni Damaskine
Maximum Woman <maxw...@op.net> wrote:
: Greetings, folks. In some correspondence recently I was trying to give a
: man some tips on how to be a good date. Anyone care to add in? Here are
: some of the things I think are important--didn't change the gendered
: language, but they are tips for everyone regardless of sex:
<snip>
I can't disagree with your points, but I would argue about how to call the
entire list. It should be "how to be a good person" not just a date. If you
don't tip fairly (or open door, etc.) in your everyday life, doing it just
to impress a date seems wrong, IMHO.
Yev.
P.S. To another poster: I had pretty good luck with orchids (the big ones)
in spite of their appearance. You are watching "The Wall" too much ;-)
Maximum Woman
On 6 Jul 1998, NicestAlan wrote:
> Culinary issues aside, Chi-Chi's and the Olive Garden are generic and
> uniform. Such a choice suggests little effort went into choosing just
> the right place for the individual. This in turn implies that dates
> themselves are not individuals, but rather are generic commodities, to
> be scooped in bulk from a bin like nails in an old-fashioned hardware
> store.
Different strokes, I guess. I happen to like places like Chi-Chi's, and
wouldn't feel degraded by someone wanting to go there--hell, maybe that's
where THEY like to eat and that's why they're suggesting it. Also, I
think it's their generic nature that makes them a good safe choice. While
you should definitely discuss and decide together where to eat, Chi-Chi's,
Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Friday's, etc. are all good basic choices--it's
not hard to find something good at any of them. I don't find someone
suggesting them offensive--what would offend me is if the guy didn't
discuss the matter with me, but just presented two choices, like that guy
we read about.
> It amazes me to see the lines outside the Olive Garden on Saturday
> night, when adorable little diners, holes in the wall, and ethnic
> restaurants are pleasant, delicious, economical, and uncrowded. One of
> my favorite places was an authentic Mexican restaurant frequented by
> immigrant Mexican mushroom workers from nearby Kennett Square. The food
> was great, it was inexpensive, and the colorful characters in the place
> stimulated lively conversation.
Again, different strokes. On a First Date I would far prefer to go
somewhere I'd been before and was familiar with. Comfort food. Given the
choice on a date, I generally take people to the South Street Diner,
because it's easy to get to, easy to find, I've been there a zillion times
before, I feel comfortable there, and most importantly, I like the food.
I personally wouldn't read anything into the restuarant selection, unless
I'd said "I'm allergic to shellfish" and he took me to Red Lobster.
Places like Chi-Chi's are the Spice Girls of the culinary world--it's
common, and in some circles fashionable, to look down on them because
they're so very "pedestrian," which I think leaves out the masses of
people who sincerely like that sort of food. I admit, when I read your
post my immediate thought was "Food snob!!" But truly, I would rather go
to one of those "generic" places you mention and know I'm going to have a
good meal than go to an unfamiliar place and spend money on food I might
not enjoy. Maybe you are now thinking "Food plebeian!"
I guess that is your two sides of the story. Some people think it's
insulting to have a place like Chi-Chi's suggested to them. Whereas if
someone presented to me an argument like the one above, I would be put
off.
Maximum Woman
On 6 Jul 1998, NicestAlan wrote:
> Part of my ritual in preparing for a date is to bring flowers. I do it
> because I personally love flowers, not because anyone suggested it to
> me. I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say about this
> practice.
Hm. I am not a big fan of flowers, because basically you put 'em in
water, they die, they stink, you throw them away. Seems a waste of money
to me. I have told men in the past (not that they ever believe me) that
they'd do better to bring me french fries (though that is more a
once-you-have-an-understanding thing).
Bringing a little something is a nice thing to do, though. It shows a
sort of old-fashioned chivalry that you don't see much of these days. You
could bring flowers, or a pretty blank book, or something else that you
think they'd like (this is where being observant comes in!)
I have noticed one problem with flowers, though: You have to be at the
person's house to give them to them, but I won't give anyone my home
address until I've met them in person a couple times. I usually set up
dates to meet at a central location. Is this a generational thing?
Another thing: Flowers, to me, convey romance, as in "You are swell and I
want to make you like me." The dates I go on, though, are more the "We're
interested in getting to know more, maybe we'll decide to date more, maybe
we'll be friends, or maybe we'll never see eachother again." Again, maybe
it's generational.
> Bringing flowers has do's and don'ts of its own, to wit:
>
> - Don't bring the cheap sale bouquet from the supermarket. Get
> something decent. On the other hand, don't show up with a dozen
> long-stemmed roses on a casual first date, either. It makes it look
> like you're trying to buy something.
Agreed. Put some thought into it.
> - The flower purchase is a good time to think about the person that you're
> about to see. What do you know about her? Is she a dramatic, romantic,
> red-rose type? An earthy, wildflower person? The sensual, perfumed freesia
> type? What are her favorite colors? It kind of "psyches me up" for a
> date--and keeps me busy so I don't have a chance to be nervous!
That is an excellent point. Someone who brought me tiger lilies because
orange is my favorite color would get mega bonus points. I have also
always loved more exotic color flowers, like dyed daisies or carnations.
The only time I ever bought flowers for myself, they were bright blue
daisies--so don't limit yourself to traditional choices.
You're right also in the metamessage here: If you're going to just buy
flowers, and you buy the same kind for every woman without thinking, don't
even bother. Put some thought into it. Personalize it.
> - When you give someone flowers, it's a romantic gesture. It gets the
> date off to a good start. You've got a task to do together: finding a
> vase, cutting the stems, putting them in fresh water. Just that little
> joint activity tells you a lot about each other. Offer to help. Does
> she let you? Does she boss you around? Does she own a vase? Is it
> Waterford crystal or a cut-down Coke bottle? You get a quick look
> around the house or apartment, which can help conversation flow later.
You are GOOD!! I just hope you consider the cut-down Coke bottle a
difference rather than a Bad Thing. I own one vase proper (packed away
'cause I never get or buy flowers), but I also have some more "funky"
vase-type things.
> - Very rarely, I'll show up with flowers for someone who's allergic.
> Obviously, you don't bring flowers if you know this ahead of time. But
> if it happens, accept this gracefully. Even if she's allergic, she's
> not going to call her friends up on the phone tomorrow and say, "You
> know what that jerk did, he brought me flowers!"
Well, some women would, but you don't have to care about them. They suck.
> - Only bring flowers on a first date if you're a "flower person" who's
> going to show up with flowers again on other occasions. You don't want
> her singing, "You Don't Bring Me Flowers Any More".
<hearty round of applause> So true! While you should try to impress on
the first dates, don't do things that are really not you. Flowers are
just one example.
This brings up one very important thing to remember in all this
discussion. BE YOURSELF. You can be interested in what impresses dates,
but in the end are you really prepared to do a whole bunch of things that
aren't natural to you, with the expectation that you will continue to be
this way? Think long and hard about it. As I said to the man with whom I
started this correspondence, if you think women aren't dating you because
you're fat, are you going to diet or get surgery? If women think you're
ugly, are you going to get a nosejob? If women think you're politically
unpalatable, are you going to lie about your preferences, or change
parties? If women find your language a turnoff, are you going to stop
swearing for the whole time you're with her? Serious questions. There
are little things you can do to help your chances, but I think what most
people want in the end is to know YOU, as you really are. I have often
said that even when the truth hurts or offends, I would rather have truth
because then I can figure out what to do with it. I can't make decisions
based on lies. So if you normally refer to women as "broads," don't stop
doing it just because youre on a date--I'm totally serious here. I would
rather know upfront that you had that terribly unappealing quality.
> Disclaimer: 1) I'm not a florist (though I grow mini-roses on my
> apartment balcony). 2) Obviously, if I really knew what I was talking
> about, I wouldn't still be single.
Now now, Alan, don't be so hard on yourself. :) As I keep trying to
remember myself, someone turning you down doesn't mean you are bad or they
are bad, it just means that you are bad TOGETHER.
genesis
> Again, different strokes. On a First Date I would far prefer to go
> somewhere I'd been before and was familiar with. Comfort food. Given the
> choice on a date, I generally take people to the South Street Diner,
-------
other good places for first meetings:
First Meetings:
Crescent Moon- coffee shop place, 20th and Sansom
-good music, nice atmosphere, very ethnic.
a good friend took me there (another story in and of itself), where the
coffee is excellent (just get there early if there is a live band playing
or on a friday night because the seating there is limited to about 20 or
less people).
the service is excellent, the waitstaff is all about no-pressure too! :D
on a tuesday nite its absolutely excellent for conversation too ;)
i completely agree about going to a small empty diner than a "popular"
spot (it's really hard to get to know someone better when "your fill in
the blank friend" shows up!!)
most of the spots on sansom, walnut and spruce streets are good as well. I
am only talking about where i *personally* have gone.
First dates:
Magnolia cafe (RIP) aka Bisou wine bar 17th and locust (i think)
-excellent Cajun / New Orleans cuisine (guys: make sure you bring 200$
with you just in case ;) they got me with those white wines :D)
the food/service is great, there are paintings/posters on the walls from
mardi gras/other french events, etc.
atmosphere- 9 out of 10-
(just make sure you ask for a table in the back nearest bisou's side)
Imperial Gourmet- chinese food
51st city line avenue (i think) i could give directions to anyone
interested, but i don't have the exact address.
its a real out of the way place, but i think the interior is very nice.
it's always empty (empty restaurants=better conversations imho)
anyone have any ideas on fine italian places for second dates by chance?
best,
me
--
"überhaupt nichts" (altogether not really)
-- overheard in a german pub
NicestAlan
for the comfort of my date. No, I'm not thinking "food plebian". I'm not a
"food snob" in the sense of "gourmet", but if you accused me of being an
"overly adventurous eater for a first date", I'd probably have to plead guilty.
Thanks--I'll reconsider.
NicestAlan
I thought about the house thing. You're right. I wouldn't bring flowers on a
first date with someone I met on line f'rinstance, which would ALWAYS be in a
public place. But if it was a friend of a friend, or an acquaintence, I might.
An exception would be someone I met on-line who I KNEW loved flowers. Then
I'd check with my friendly florist for a hardy species that can stand being
carried around. There are some, but I forget the names.
And yes, the cut-down Coke bottle vase can show resourcefulness, which can be
more important in my book than the ability to shell out for Waterford crystal.
:)
Alan
Mike Given
>Greetings, folks. In some correspondence recently I was trying to give a
>man some tips on how to be a good date.
"how to be a *good* date"? "Barely-adequate", IMHO or at least how
not be a complete cretin, anyway. I liked the stuff, rilly, truly, and
through all the obvious/incidental/anecdotal caveats I thought I could
offer, the only one I rilly felt any need to redress (..and understand,
fully in devil's advocate fashion) is:
>* Be careful with the bill.
In-*deed*.
>This is a VERY delicate area where just about anything can get
>you into trouble with some woman or other. Most women will not
>be offended if you offer to pay, or will at least demur politely.
Key word that, "politely". Polite behavior varies from society to
society. It's one of the reasons most establishments still have
separate men's and lady's toilet facilities.
ObClueBrick: I'm talking about the seat-up-seat-down thing. That is
unless your really *did* mean that "regardless of sex" thing.
>Ask her "Are you sure?" if you like, but if she says "Yes, really, I
>prefer to pay my own way," LET HER.
If he's being "gallant" and not lecherous and pleads nicely to let him
pay, LET HIM.
I don't pretend to speak for the entirety of man when I say that; I
know I certainly don't speak for sock.men who whine that feminists
should pay their own way even while they fire female secretaries who
can't fetch coffee properly, I'm yakking for the (probably dwindling)
segment that have a bit of romance in 'em, thoroughly sexist and could
give a shit less if paying for a meal leaves 'em pretty much broke 'till
payday 6-days-away 'cuz its worth it. It's just one of those things we
was brought up with. Don't den't my fwagile ego, pweez.
This is doubly true if I'm the one that offered the invitation.
>Nothing turned me off more in my militant-dutch-treat days than a man
>who acted as though his very life depended on his paying my way.
Okay, that's an extreme. I would not go ape-shit if a woman insisted,
but I would feel a bit put out and I don't think I'd be much ashamed to
let it show a bit.
>However, I am NOT saying that you SHOULD pay for the date if you
>think for whatever reason that you shouldn't--if I was a man I would
>have a hard time understanding why I was expected to pay for
>everything.
I generally go by who asked who. I tend to try'n nab the check if I'm
havin' a good time even if I'm the one who got asked, but I don't balk
if she insists (though I may propose that I pay for the *next* date),
and well, ok, if I'm having a shitful time (which is a rarity) I'll even
ackshully..."hesitate" at picking up the tab if it was me that was
asked.
But it's *not* "everything". I won't be paying your rent, or your
phone bill, or your ISP fees - itsa meal, mebbe a few drinks, and if
things go well, a coupla movie tickets, and if things go *really* well,
a few more drinks, and if things go really, *really* well...well, you
know what "they" say, dontchya?
Brick2: The best things in life truly *are* free. Unless you're gonna
quibble over who pays for condoms. Whole evening can be done quite
nicely for under $100, less if a place like Friday's or Bennigan's or
any of the other yuppie-burgermats-with-a-bar is to mutual tastes.
>Just know that if you don't, there are some women who, regardless
>of anything else, will not see you again.
Yer tellin' *me*.
[...]
>Anyone care to add in?
Well, I shouldn't. Well, okay, but this ain't rilly advice, per se,
so much as an observation and my own personal anal-retentivness about
first-dates.
Have alternate plans available. Movies sell out, restaraunts get
packed and have waiting lines (even *with* reservations) and ya just
never know when they're gonna be out of your size in bowling shoes. I
over-plan first dates. It's kinda horrible I guess, but there've been
more than a few occasions where that kind of planning is just downright
resourceful; perspective buyers have also been appreciative of such
skill and foresight. Its one of those things where the place you
planned to go was on fire, you take a u-bie and backtrack a half-a-dozen
blocks or so to a roughly-equivalent alternate, sit back, have a beer,
and mutter quietly to yourself "damn, I'm good". Sets a tone for the
evening.
Mikey (..and 'yup', that actually happened to me & date once..)
--
URL http://linux.onix.com/~wowbaggr
ICQ # 4965610
Cheezits
> I have to agree with the suggestions in your post.
Me too. But since I hardly ever date anymore, I don't really have
anything to add. (But I'm glad I cleaned out my car last weekend. :-)
> I met this guy on-line and wasn't completely smitten, but thought I had
> nothing to lose so...He gave me the choice of the Olive Garden or
> Chi-Chi's. Not great first date spots, but I didn't say anything.
I just have to put in a good word for Chi Chi's here. I had one of my
best first dates there.
[bad date deleted]
> The most humorous thing about this date: I laugh every time I think that he
> didn't call me back, so I must have been the bad date!!
I wouldn't look at it that way - it doesn't make much sense to me to blame
one person or the other if a date doesn't go well. If you had really
liked each other, you would have gotten together again regardless, I would
think. And if you didn't, then it wouldn't matter much how well-planned
the whole thing was.
Sue
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long...@windsor.igs.net is recently looking for a single female penpal for
long distant companionship. He is thirty something and never been married
or has any children. This relationship may lead to romantic, love and
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Good Luck with your hunt for Mr. Right. Perhaps, he is under your eyes.
Warm regard,