ECHELON MALL
R.J.
Is there anyone out there, that knows much history of, or
photos available of the Echelon Mall. I am now getting into wanting
to know more about older vintage stores, malls of my past. Like the
old Korvettes Stores, Two Guys Stores, Hanscombs Bakery, Jack in the
Box Resteraunts....etc...
Thanks, Ray
st...@temple.edu
The Echelon Mall still exists although it lost a couple of its anchor
stores. Like many large shopping malls, the Echelon Mall is experiencing
some rough financial times. If you Google, you can find lots of info
on the Echelon Mall, but I don't know to what extent that information
is historical.
Jack in the Box is still alive and well on the west coast. You can
certain check out JITB's web site at http://www.jackinthebox.com/index2.php
for plenty of information about this fastfood chain.
R.J.
Here is what I know, as of now about the Echelon Mall.
Several more small stores have now closed. GNC, another clothing
store, etc... The anchors are still sitting. Last Week, I saw some
large Drilling Truck, Boring Holes, rather close to one another,
throughout the entire JC Penney Parking lot. So, I pulled up, and
talked to the guys. They said they were doing Soil Surveys, and that
the JC Penney Building, and the Sears Building are scheduled for
Demolision. I said, WHAT???? I worked on the new Sears Building in
1999, and it wasn't even open 2 years and it closed. Its like Brand
New inside. He said, Yes, they are both going to be Demolished, and
the Owner (PREIT) is putting somewhat of a push on things. He did not
know anything further. I have heard Long Standing Rumors that a Super
Walmart was to be Built on the Pennies Site. I still find it hard to
believe that Sear Building would be demolished. I was told by a
Reliable Sears Employee, that reason for the Sears Closing was, it was
Hurting Deptford Mall more than anything else. Its a shame, because I
loved the Echelon Sears. I really dont care for Deptford Mall at all.
Echelon Mall is still listed as the 2nd Larges Mall in
South Jersey, barely edged out by Cherry Hill. It has much more
Parking Areas than Cherry Hill Does, even if the mall was filled. I
feel its disadvantages are Location, Roadways, etc... and that Rouse
didn't do a thing for it. If you look at all the Vacancies across the
street, there is the Empty IHOP Pancake House, Empty Burger King, Now
the Echelon MRI is closing. Towers Perrin is now lost, and will be
vacated soon.
One other rumor I have heard is that on of the Tire
Centers next to the Mall, was to become a resteraunt. I dont know if
this is true. But, the thing that could also help the mall, would be
to put some Power Store around it. Look at all the other Malls
mentioned. They all have Power Stores nearby. Like Bestbuy, Circuit
City, Olive Gardens, Don Pablo's, Comp USA, etc... You see what I am
saying. Another difficult thing for Sears was, they had their Scratch
and Dent Store right across the street from the Anchor Sears. That
surely didnt help matters. I have been trying my best, to find out
more about this Demolision, and New Contruction, that is in the plans
for Echelon Mall, but I do not have enough connections. I do know
that this is being done though.
There was a guy, I saw on Internet, that had a Sit
Dedicated to the Echelon Mall. Supposedly With Aerial Views of the
Mall, History of the Mall, the Former Amusement Park that was once in
the Mall, etc... It was a Comcast Site, so I assume his carrier of
Internet was Comcast. But his Page is no longer available. I dont
know how to track him down. I would have loved to have seen his site.
Ray
chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> raayy...@aol.com (R.J.) wrote in message news:<d8fcfba4.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> Well, I havent been following it, until lately. But, briefy, Cherry
> Hill Mall opened first in 1961, then Moorestown, then Echelon. Echelon
> mall opened up in 1970. When it opened, it was the largest mall in
> South Jersey. The JCPenney wing of Cherry Hill hadnt been built yet,
> nor had Deptford Mall expanded and refurbished. Hamilton Mall in
> Atlantic City area wasn't built either, so Echelon was the largest and
> premier mall in South Jersey for a while.
>
> The mall hasnt seen any interior redevelopment though since its
> opening. They did remove the water fountains (not the drinking ones,
> but the display ones) within the enclosed parts of the mall long time
> ago. Though, no new flooring or any lighting changes. Meanwhile,
> Cherry Hill Mall, Plymouth Meeting Mall, Deptford Mall, Hamilton Mall
> have all seen significant makeovers since the 1990s.
>
> PREIT, the current owners of Echelon Mall, claim they won't spend a
> dime on the mall appearance itself, until new anchors are found for
> the Sears and JCPenney anchor sites. PREIT plans only to spend on
> advertising for the mall, that former Rouse Company didnt even do.
> PREIT has bought airtime on the local Comcast cable; Comcast customers
> have been seeing advertising to visit Echelon Mall on channels like
> ESPN, etc.
>
> Echelon Mall did open up before PATCO was built. This is something to
> think about. If PATCO had came first, mall development could have
> been done closer to that line.
>
> I dont remember any dates (you'll have to go to newslibrary.com and
> choose Philadelphia Inquirer...)but before Boscov's, there was Sterns.
> Sterns closed down several stores in Philadelphia area, and I recall
> Echelon Mall Sterns was one of the last Philadelphia area stores to
> close. The county library used to be attached to the mall. Later it
> moved across the street from the mall. The old library site was
> taken over by an arcade, then demolished for a new parking pattern.
>
> IMO, JCPenney should have taken the better Sterns site, after Sterns
> had left, instead of letting go vacant, giving the site to a
> competitor, Boscov's.
>
> The Sears store was added to the mall in 2000, and closed 2 years
> later. JCPenney, at the back side of the mall adjacent to Sears,
> closed a year later. Sears felt the Voorhees store was likely just
> taking customers out of their original Moorestown or Deptford stores,
> or there was not enough base to support all three of them. JCPenney
> redirected customers to go to either Deptford or Cherry Hill Mall.
>
> Deptford and Cherry Hill Malls remain top malls in South Jersey, while
> Echelon and Moorestown have been struggling lot more. Yet, Voorhees
> and Moorestown are high income areas that have potential. The mall
> challenges (in more case Echelon) are mainly due to not being off the
> major highways, and more competition. Whereas, Deptford and Cherry
> Hill Malls are located off artery roads, with no immediate
> competition.
>
> The Promenade at Sagemore, Marlton Crossing, Marlton Square and trendy
> Targets and wannabe department stores like Kohl's, have also directly
> impacted the Echelon Mall and Moorestown Mall customer base.
>
> It's perplexing the Echelon Mall vacant anchors hasnt been taken over
> by a new retailers, though.
>
> Voorhees is high income area: the numerous homes and Voorhees
> residents alone could support something over there.
>
> One choice I've strongly felt: Kmart.
> KMart could sell their Marlton store and move into one of the anchor
> sites in the Echelon Mall in Voorhees, preferrably the new & vacant
> Sears building.
>
> Why?
> There is no nearby Kmart for Voorhees residents, that a new one would
> cannibalize an existing one.
> In Marlton, Kmart is directly across a Walmart.
> In normal situations, people choose Walmart over Kmart. See the
> parking lot, or number of visitors. The marlton Kmart is typical of
> all other Kmarts, slummy. Its exterior is very outdated, whereas the
> Sears anchor site in Echelon is practically brand new.
>
> In Voorhees, well, Walmart doesnt have a store in that township.
> There is Target off White Horse Road, but its far enough. Target also
> isnt as big a threat to Kmart as Walmart is. The Echelon Mall could
> use a discount retailer as an anchor. Sears and JCPenney were in more
> way, competing directly against Strawbridges and Boscovs. The mall
> itself is not regional anymore, but should be considered local to the
> people of Voorhees, and the surrounding 3 townships. It couldnt
> support 4 of the same retailers.
>
> Another choice:
> A gym. Philadelphia Sports Club.
> Voorhees is high income. The people can support a premium gym. New
> York Sports Club has over 30 locations in North and Central NJ.
>
> Yet, for the Philly Sports Club, they just one location in South
> Jersey. Just another insult to the people of South Jersey.
>
> Another choice would be Planet/Future Fitness.
>
> There are other choices to, such as grocery. The mall itself is
> surrounded by town homes and apartments. A grocery, even upcale
> grocery that is distinctive from Genuardis or Acme, would do very
> well.
>
> A movie theater, a Staples, or another non traditional dept. store
> could do very well in the mall.
>
> Different dept. stores could be:
> Value City,
> National Wholesale Liquidators,
>
> I also suspect JCPenney may choose returning to the mall, if the Sears
> anchor site could be found a new host(thus to bring traffic), and the
> mall would get a significant makeover by the management.
>
> JCPenney left only after the vacant Sears carcass depressed their
> store. JCPenney is also doing financially better now, and PREIT said
> they would do a makeover to the mall, once both anchors were filled.
> Thus, there would be incentive to return to the mall, if the mall
> owners would make the mall attractive.
>
> For people in Voorhees, Marlton and Medford, JCPenney basically
> abandoned them altogether. Deptford and Cherry Hill Mall stores are
> of further distance. Sears, which has the Moorestown store, still is
> within closerby reach to those homes. JCPenney may feel they need
> that location back up again, or else the store has lost those
> customers for good, to competitors like Target and Kohls.
>
> For whatever reason, Rouse Co. didn't see the need to beautify the
> place up, even when the mall had its four anchors filled. I suppose
> they were resting on laurels. As for vintage stores, I dont know much
> about that topic.
st...@temple.edu
> One choice I've strongly felt: Kmart.
> KMart could sell their Marlton store and move into one of the anchor
> sites in the Echelon Mall in Voorhees, preferrably the new & vacant
> Sears building.
> Why?
> There is no nearby Kmart for Voorhees residents, that a new one would
> cannibalize an existing one.
> In Marlton, Kmart is directly across a Walmart.
> In normal situations, people choose Walmart over Kmart. See the
> parking lot, or number of visitors. The marlton Kmart is typical of
> all other Kmarts, slummy. Its exterior is very outdated, whereas the
> Sears anchor site in Echelon is practically brand new.
This is all very interesting. Note; however, that one of KMart's
biggest competitors is Target. Target already operates a store in
Voorhees. Considering how mismanaged KMart still is, I find it
hard to believe that a bottom of the line store such as KMart could
thrive in a wealthy area like Voorhees, esp. with a Target in the area.
> In Voorhees, well, Walmart doesnt have a store in that township.
> There is Target off White Horse Road, but its far enough. Target also
> isnt as big a threat to Kmart as Walmart is. The Echelon Mall could
> use a discount retailer as an anchor. Sears and JCPenney were in more
> way, competing directly against Strawbridges and Boscovs. The mall
> itself is not regional anymore, but should be considered local to the
> people of Voorhees, and the surrounding 3 townships. It couldnt
> support 4 of the same retailers.
> Another choice would be Planet/Future Fitness.
There are already several high end health clubs in the Voorhees area
including a Bally's that's almost adjacent to a Target store. Since
probably 99% of the adult population in Voorhees has a car, and it
is not a walkable township, I doubt that the location of Target would
pose a problem for anyone who lives in that township to go there for
inexpensive shopping instead of to a Kmart in the Echelon Mall.
I think one of the cool aspects of the Echelon Mall is its close
proximity to an excellent public library, but I have no idea how
the mall's management can market that situation.
st...@temple.edu
> One other rumor I have heard is that on of the Tire
> Centers next to the Mall, was to become a resteraunt. I dont know if
> this is true. But, the thing that could also help the mall, would be
> to put some Power Store around it. Look at all the other Malls
> mentioned. They all have Power Stores nearby. Like Bestbuy, Circuit
> City, Olive Gardens, Don Pablo's, Comp USA, etc... You see what I am
> saying. Another difficult thing for Sears was, they had their Scratch
> and Dent Store right across the street from the Anchor Sears. That
> surely didnt help matters. I have been trying my best, to find out
> more about this Demolision, and New Contruction, that is in the plans
> for Echelon Mall, but I do not have enough connections. I do know
> that this is being done though.
What about a Micro Center computer store? CompUSA is okay; there's one
in the East Gate Plaza off of Route 38 and Lenola Road, but that's a
bit of a drive for Voorhees residents. Opening up a CompUSA in Voorhees
might be a good idea, but if I had my druthers, it would be a Micro
Center instead. The closest Micro Center is in Saint Davids which is
a major haul for people like me who live in South Jersey and I consider
Micro Center to be a much better computer retailer than CompUSA.
Art Clemons
> I think one of the cool aspects of the Echelon Mall is its close
> proximity to an excellent public library, but I have no idea how
> the mall's management can market that situation.
What Echelon needs more than anything else is a surplus of customers
looking for items in the stores. You would then find no available
parking in the lots and stores would clamor to be a part of the mall.
Echelon though just doesn't have the passthrough traffic or store to
attract other stores, and probably never will now. It's got several
redeeming factors but it's not close enough to a major road for easy
on/off access, and there are other stores. Of course the decline of
Echelon began in the early mid 80's.
I suspect that trendy stores locating in the mall and keeping people
returning would do more for the mall than anything else, but stores
paying rents in a mall have to make the nut plus a reasonable profit to
remain.
chris
> I think one of the cool aspects of the Echelon Mall is its close
> proximity to an excellent public library, but I have no idea how
> the mall's management can market that situation.
It also has close proximity (walking distance) to the county YMCA.
R.J.
You seem to be up on the Echelon Mall, asmuch, or more so,
than I do. I have contacted a guy from Voorhees, named Ron Richards,
and he seems to know nothing as to what is going on either. He is
sort of in the Political realm. I do know, that these construction
guy, were Boring Holes, all through the Pennies and Sears Parking
Lots. And that they did tell me, the building were being demolished.
That is what I seem to know as fact.
The parts I hear that are rumor, are, that the Resteraunt is
ggoing to open in one of the Tire Centers in the Lot. A super Walmart
is going to be built on the Pennies Site. I was also told, that the
New Kohl's Store, to be built at Cooper Road and rt. 73 had fallen
apart, and that it was now going to head on over to the Echelon Mall,
thus Kohl's being the newest Anchor Store. And construction on the
new Kohl's Site had seemed to come to a screeching halt for months.
So, I was beginning to believe that rumor. However, I noticed that
within the past 2 weeks, that the Kohl's Construction has resumed on
Cooper Road, and they even Puit the new Kohl's Signs up on the
Buildings. So, I really dont know what is to come of Echelon Mall,
and wish I had some Inside Information. Even the Mall Information
Center is Lock Lipped about everything. THey originally told me that
a new Anchor was to open after the New Year in the Sears Building.
And, I saw a lot of Work, and Lights on, in the Sears Building prior
to Christmas, late at Nights. But nothing has happened.
Employees of Boscov's have said that the Boscov's Store
was planning on Closing, and leaving the Mall as well. I dont know if
this is true. This is what I mean about Rumors Flying. I was not
aware that Gertrude Hawks Closed in Echelon Mall. I was there around
Easter Time, and they said nothing about closing. Everything is so
Secretive around there. Its amazing.
I was to Deptford and Cherry Hill Malls recently, and they
have plenty of Vacancies of their own. Same as Moorestown. But
Deptfor is such a amall mall, even though its two floors, your from
one end to the other in a matter of minutes. Echelon is much larger.
I dont see any of our Local Malls, all included, being overly
sucessful. If you want to see what Sucess is,take a ride to Freehold
Raceway Mall. They have Upscale Anchors, and Upscale Smaller stores
all within this Huge Mall, and there is also Plenty of Power Stores
Surrounding it, on Rt. 9, yet the Mall is Unhurt by any of them. Its
always Crowded, and full of Tenants. Its even a Better Looking Class
of People walking around the Mall itself. Not the Riff Raff Garbage I
have been seeing in our Malls. I have High Hopes for Echelon Mall,
and am hoping someone , somewhere, can find out some inside info on
whats happening.
Ray
chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> >
chris
Boscov's was advertising on Comcast cable, the opening up of a
Harrisburg store. I never hear about their company in papers. But,
they are opening a store, which would be an indicator of possible
success. It seemed to be a misplaced ad though, because unlike Kohl's
ads which are more like: "celebrate the savings at all stores", the
Boscov's ad, which I dont remember verbatim or anything, just seemed
to be really meant for the Harrisburg market, not here.
The Boscov's seems busy in Voorhees and Moorestown too. Given the
heavy advertising within the Philadelphia market, the loss of JCPenney
and Sears which would more shift customers to Boscov's at Echelon, I
dont see them closing their Echelon store. They also only have 2
stores (one Echelon, the other Moorestown) really serving the South
West part of New Jersey, unlike Strawbridge's which is in all 6 local
malls (Burlington Center, Cherry Hill, Deptford, Moorestown, Echelon,
and Gallery), which for May Co. is adequately covering the area, maybe
even too many stores for the area.
>
> I was to Deptford and Cherry Hill Malls recently, and they
> have plenty of Vacancies of their own. Same as Moorestown. But
> Deptfor is such a amall mall, even though its two floors, your from
> one end to the other in a matter of minutes. Echelon is much larger.
> I dont see any of our Local Malls, all included, being overly
> sucessful. If you want to see what Sucess is,take a ride to Freehold
> Raceway Mall. They have Upscale Anchors, and Upscale Smaller stores
> all within this Huge Mall, and there is also Plenty of Power Stores
> Surrounding it, on Rt. 9, yet the Mall is Unhurt by any of them. Its
> always Crowded, and full of Tenants. Its even a Better Looking Class
> of People walking around the Mall itself. Not the Riff Raff Garbage I
> have been seeing in our Malls. I have High Hopes for Echelon Mall,
> and am hoping someone , somewhere, can find out some inside info on
> whats happening.
I dont think there really is an unsuccessful mall in Central New
Jersey. That area is the burgeoning suburbs of NY, the melting pot of
the country. Menlo Park Mall, Woodbridge Mall, dont remember the
others, but they are all great and successful.
The only real successful centers of South Jersey probably is Deptford
Mall, though, and outdoor shopping centers like Promenade, and East
Gate.
Deptford Mall is smaller, but it's vacancies are filled up quickly.
Shortly after Barnes&Noble decided to shut down their B.Dalton store
in the second floor (what I originally thought a not-so-stellar site
in the mall), Express took over the lease and plans to open its store.
Cherry Hill Mall is doing alright, but there is truth that it isn't
hugely successful as other centers. Nothing really new happened
there, just the broken record of how they were the first enclosed mall
in the country. The Woolworth building went unoccupied for over 5
years, before just a Bertucci's filled it. JCPenney has lately been
teetering around, and closing their poorly performing stores (like
Gallery II, and Echelon), and I have doubts whether their Cherry Hill
store will last.
Not to be dissing Pennies but:
My impression is that the JCPenney wing is pretty much the ghetto wing
of Cherry Hill mall too. Not only did Penney's have the relatively
worst anchor site in Echelon Mall (compared to Strawbridge's and
Boscov's), they are also positioned with the relatively worst anchor
site in Cherry Hill(compared to Strawbridge's and Macy's), by not
facing Route 38. Not facing 38, is well, not targeting commuters who
drive 38 and really support the mall.
The JCPenney wing is mostly cluttered with mall fillers like Radio
Shack, and junky accessory stores, not big clothing apparel or shoe
chains (like Foot Locker, etc.) Modell's is there, which is okay, but
it isnt that desireable for newer retailers to come there, except the
local or regional local chains.
The western portion of Cherry Hill and Haddonfield Road, is pretty far
from the high income areas of Cherry Hill, and given the heavy dosage
of retail competition in Cherry Hill suburbs, JCPenney doesnt seem as
strong in that mall either. Target and Kohl's opened up on
Burlington-Mt.Holly Road, also presenting some danger for the
Burlington Center Mall JCPenney's.
Driving around the Cherry Hill Mall parking lot is a nightmare, and so
is walking from the Penney's end to Macy's. Echelon was always the
more sensible mall, as terms of walking and parking, only its location
was bad.
Cherry Hill still has H&M and few other clothing stores, not found in
other South Jersey malls. It is preferred in my family, though we
like Boscov's too. Inside Echelon,it's nothing much to offer anymore.
Cherry Hill gets its vacancies filled, especially between Macy's and
the Food Court. Retailers choose that mall first, within that
areforementioned zone, before even considering Moorestown or Echelon.
As for Echelon-I actually hope they dont raze the Sears and JCPenney
anchors. for one thing, although they sit vacant, they are not
falling apart, and are not eyesores. Route 130 in Burlington County
has eyesore shopping centers (of dead Caldors, etc.) that would be in
more need, to be razed.
The Sears thing is so new.
Razing the Pennies, throwing up a one story Walmart (with only one
customer entrance to the parking lot, and no entrance to the mall--
because Walmart finds any other format inefficient in the long run),
wouldn't be the best plan for recovering the mall; it would just be
outright wrong also to see the existing buildings torn down, for a
lesser building, a blue-white ugly Walmart structure.
I would think Walmart might find Lions Head Plaza in Somerdale, more
suitable for cornering in on the Voorhees population. They could buy
out the half dead shopping center for a Walmart supercenter, buying
out the slummy movie theater and closing it. Though lacking a very
close one to them, Voorhees residents are near to the Berlin Walmart
and Marlton Walmart.
The Promenade at Sagemore which is more accomodating to people in
Marlton, Voorhees, and Cherry Hill East area, has likely made a dent
in all of PREIT's 3 malls. Half the Cherry Hill residents that living
in the East side of the township, find Echelon and Moorestown/EastGate
and MarltonSquare/Sagemore shopping center closer to them.
st...@temple.edu
> The western portion of Cherry Hill and Haddonfield Road, is pretty far
> from the high income areas of Cherry Hill, and given the heavy dosage
> of retail competition in Cherry Hill suburbs, JCPenney doesnt seem as
> strong in that mall either. Target and Kohl's opened up on
> Burlington-Mt.Holly Road, also presenting some danger for the
> Burlington Center Mall JCPenney's.
> Driving around the Cherry Hill Mall parking lot is a nightmare, and so
> is walking from the Penney's end to Macy's. Echelon was always the
> more sensible mall, as terms of walking and parking, only its location
> was bad.
Really? I live about a five minute drive from the Cherry Hill Mall and I
have never found driving around the mall's parking lot to be a nightmare.
One of the reasons, I think, the CHM continues to attract large crowds of
shoppers is its close proximity to the cinemaplex across Route 38. I also
don't find it any problem at all to walk between the Penny's and the
Macy's in the CHM in any way.
The JC Penny's is in a quieter area of the Cherry Hill Mall, but it
obviously must be making a profit; otherwise, it too would have been on
the chopping block during the phase when numerous JC Penneys stores were
being shuttered. Hell, I even bought my livingroom furniture at that JC
Penny's.
R.J.
Id have to disagree with you on these Cherry Hill points.
First, I think it is the most overrated mall I know of. The type
people walking around in it seem like the bottom of the barrel, whcih
is enough to want to keep me away from it. Second, The parking Lot
Absolutely STinks. They built out off the mall and used up much of
their Parking Lot. So its really maxed out, with not enough parking.
ANd Lastly, Id agree with Chris, the Pennies Wing is like the Ghetto
of the Mall. All the garbage stores. And, to go into the Pennies
area of the mall from the Strawbridge area, if you are Handicapped, or
have CHildrens Strollers, you have to deal with those Stupid
Elevators, or Escalators. Really STupid in the Plans there.
Being only very Slightly Edging out the Echelon Mall, in Mall
space, Cherry Hill is layed out very poorly. Echelon Mall even from
the entire look of it, is far Nicer Looking, I mean the Parking Lot,
Overhead View, and Landscape surrounding the Mall Blows the Snotty
Cherry Hill Mall away. Thats why I wish something would be done to
revive what Rouse has destroyed. There is much Potential witht he
Echelon mall. Cherry Hill is just living off of its Old Name. Really
a Sad Pit of a Mall to me. And not Upscale at all. In Fact Deptford
has recently surpassed it in Sales, by quite a bit.
Ray
st...@temple.edu wrote in message news:<c8ab70$687$1...@cronkite.temple.edu>...
chris
The Penny's is probably doing fine, but it is to my observation, they
are with lot more competition, in the Cherry Hill surroundings, within
the last 5 years. And unlike competitors, they closed a store in
Voorhees, which affected several townships as the distance to getting
to a Penney's is greater now.
The Gallery II and Echelon stores closed, that they have likely
absorbed some of the customer base from those stores, that their
Cherry Hill store is likely getting enough visitors.
But, the Route 38 commuters have Target/Kohls on one side,
Strawbridge's/Macys from the mall on the opposing side, with Penney's
not directly off Route 38. It is just a weakness, that they are in
the relatively worst spot in the mall compared to its competitors,
even though the mall as a whole is successful. The Penney's off
Haddonfield Road is still a better spot, than what they were at
Echelon.
The Echelon Mall's location was always a weakness, but JCPenney's was
operating fine for years, until the addition of more retail
competition, was taking too much of their potential customer base,
that the Echelon store became underperforming.
I agree the Loews Cineplex has helped the CHM, and so will the
redevelopment of the apartment complex. CHM is still the premier mall
of South Jersey, hands down, and will likely hold that title.
Echelon Mall is declining and just chosen over the others, if
convenient by location (really only applies to people in Voorhees,
Somerdale, and eastern side of Cherry Hill, who are within 5 minutes
of the mall, who know the backroads to get to the mall). To this
basis, it is the reason why really only a discount retailer targeted
for the people living in the nearby apartments or homes could really
work filling the JCPenney/Sears buildings (or some other mixed use),
and not a Macy's or Nordstrom or other full fledged dept. store which
need better locations.
Moorestown has always been too small, and in shadow of other shopping
centers.
Burlington Mall Center seems to be happy stuck in their 1970's look.
Deptford, like Burlington, are far enough from Cherry Hill, that they
dont really compete with CHM.
The outdoor shopping centers (Promenade, Marlton Square, Marlton
Crossing) target a smaller select customer base, without the breadth
of retail that CHM has. But, they have made a dent into PREIT's 3
malls here.
Stein Mart http://www.steinmart.com will be opening up in the
Ellisburg Circle, Ross's former location.
R.J.
If you were to do a google search, I think youd find a recent
article, I believe from the Courier Post. It was within recent
months. ANd it shows the figures and all, whereby Deptford Mall has
not only surpassed Cherry Hill Mall in all areas, but has done so in a
very convincing fashion. Actually clobbering CHerry Hill mall. I
dont like either of the 2 malls. Cheery Hill Mall is far from a
Prestigious Mall to me. So much Trash in there. If you go there on a
Weekend Night, it Looks as if a Riot Could break out at any time.
Most people are Hanging Out, and Not Shopping at all. I know this can
be said of other malls, but CHerry Hill has Really Declined in its
Clientel. I was only going there for one reason. I have the Soda
Club System, and would go to Cherry Hill to exchange my Tanks. But
they are since gone from Cherry Hill, so I no longer have reason to
go. They also just Pulled out of Deptford Mall, so I no Longer have a
reason to go there. Soda Club will now be moving into the China
Gourmet Garage on Rt. 73 in Marlton on May 22, Saturday. So, for me
that is much better than either CHerry Hill or Deptford.
If I wanted to Shop, Id prefer Moorestown over any of
those mentioned. But If I really want to Shop, I drive to Freehole
Mall, or Oxford Valley Mall. I prefer these malls over all the South
Jersey Malls, and over the King of Prussia Malls as well.
Ray
chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04051...@posting.google.com>...
st...@temple.edu
> Chris,
> If you were to do a google search, I think youd find a recent
> article, I believe from the Courier Post. It was within recent
> months. ANd it shows the figures and all, whereby Deptford Mall has
> not only surpassed Cherry Hill Mall in all areas, but has done so in a
> very convincing fashion. Actually clobbering CHerry Hill mall. I
> dont like either of the 2 malls. Cheery Hill Mall is far from a
> Prestigious Mall to me. So much Trash in there. If you go there on a
> Weekend Night, it Looks as if a Riot Could break out at any time.
> Most people are Hanging Out, and Not Shopping at all. I know this can
> be said of other malls, but CHerry Hill has Really Declined in its
> Clientel. I was only going there for one reason. I have the Soda
> Club System, and would go to Cherry Hill to exchange my Tanks. But
> they are since gone from Cherry Hill, so I no longer have reason to
> go. They also just Pulled out of Deptford Mall, so I no Longer have a
> reason to go there. Soda Club will now be moving into the China
> Gourmet Garage on Rt. 73 in Marlton on May 22, Saturday. So, for me
> that is much better than either CHerry Hill or Deptford.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the Cherry Hill Mall, or any big shopping
mall for that matter, but there is no doubt that the CHM is doing well. Vacancies
there seem minimal. The mall's parking lot is probably undersized for the CHM's
capacity. My problem with most shopping malls, including CHM, King of Prussia,
and the Morrestown Mall is that they offer very little for me there.
For example, I just bought a brand new suit at Men's Warehouse on Lenola
Road, just opposite the Moorestown Mall and I could not have had any better
service there and the suit looks great. For regular clothes, I find most of
what I need at Target for much lower prices than anything I could ever buy
at one of those big malls. If JC Penney's and Macy's went out of business
tomorrow, I would not miss them; same with Strawbridges. JC Penney's is a
bit of an exception, but the other department stores such as Macy's have
nothing in them that I want to buy.
I generally detest shopping anyway, so I am not the best person to
critique shopping malls. To me, a visit to my dentist is a more pleasurable
experience than shopping for clothes, esp. in one of those huge, overpriced
malls.
chris
> If you were to do a google search, I think youd find a recent
> article, I believe from the Courier Post. It was within recent
> months. ANd it shows the figures and all, whereby Deptford Mall has
> not only surpassed Cherry Hill Mall in all areas, but has done so in a
> very convincing fashion. Actually clobbering CHerry Hill mall. I
> dont like either of the 2 malls. Cheery Hill Mall is far from a
> Prestigious Mall to me. So much Trash in there. If you go there on a
> Weekend Night, it Looks as if a Riot Could break out at any time.
> Most people are Hanging Out, and Not Shopping at all. I know this can
> be said of other malls, but CHerry Hill has Really Declined in its
> Clientel. I was only going there for one reason. I have the Soda
> Club System, and would go to Cherry Hill to exchange my Tanks. But
> they are since gone from Cherry Hill, so I no longer have reason to
> go. They also just Pulled out of Deptford Mall, so I no Longer have a
> reason to go there. Soda Club will now be moving into the China
> Gourmet Garage on Rt. 73 in Marlton on May 22, Saturday. So, for me
> that is much better than either CHerry Hill or Deptford.
>
>
> If I wanted to Shop, Id prefer Moorestown over any of
> those mentioned. But If I really want to Shop, I drive to Freehole
> Mall, or Oxford Valley Mall. I prefer these malls over all the South
> Jersey Malls, and over the King of Prussia Malls as well.
> Ray
>
>
Have you checked Marlton's Promenade? It has high clientele, and
being an outdoor lifestyle plaza with stores catering to a different
market, you wont find Camden gangs or high schoolers hanging out
there.
BTW, Echelon Mall used to be infested with that weekend teenager
crowd, until their movie theater and Exhilarama!(arcade center with
bumper cars+ rollercoaster) shut down, and the mall itself was no
longer a "cool" place for teens. The area teens, now a new
generation, are all over the slummy Lions Head Plaza (Cinemark Movies)
on a weekend night now.
Deptford Mall does have 4 anchors now, so does Moorestown, and
Echelon (granted 2 are vacant).
Back when Rouse owned the 3 malls (CHM, Echelon, Moorestown), I wonder
should Rouse Co. have solidified their top area mall- Cherry Hill Mall
to add another anchor, instead of trying to develop Echelon and
Moorestown? The CHM parking lot is shaped L-like and the structure is
bizarre, that I dont know where a fourth anchor could go, though. I
am not sure I would consider Target and Kohls, across the street, as
additions to the area, when they are not really attached to the mall.
Yet, the two have better clothing than discount retailer predecessors
Bradlees(closed its Cherry Hill store) & KMart(closed its Pennsauken
store), that Target and Kohl's are making more of a dent to the mall
dept. stores.
I'm sure if CHM had the additional power of the 4th anchor(supposing
Boscov's left Echelon or Moorestown in favor of building a CHM site),
CHM would not have slipped to Deptford. I read the Philadelphia
Inquirer article, and Deptford surpassed CHM, but I didnt read they
are clobbering them.
Really Deptford Mall is also holding up well because of its not too
big (it's small that demand exceeds supply), the new JCPenney add-in
and makeover within the mall, plus the mall has no immediate
competition. It is also a destination place for Gloucester,
Cumberland and Salem County NJ residents. Some Camden Co. residents,
and likely some Atlantic Co. residents maybe closer to that mall than
another one
Blackhorse Shopping Center is dead, and Echelon (which is still 15
minutes away I guess), its only really competition, only has Boscov's
that Deptford lacks.
For Camden Co. and Burlington Co., CHM, Echelon and Moorestown are
more cannibalizing each other with such close proximity, along with
direct competition of the Marlton shopping plazas now. I've noticed
Old Navy is content not being in any of the malls with shopping plazas
abundant, and other stores like Joyce Leslie chose an outdoor shopping
center in Cherry Hill over being within CHM, even though they are in
malls elsewhere. The outdoor shopping centers are more attractive to
these businesses.
Stan is right though, that CHM's vacancies arent too much a factor. I
recently saw the place, and although there were vacancies, there were
lot of "coming soon's" too. Even the ghetto JCPenney end is very
occupied. New businesses (maybe not the most attractive) are opening
there.
As for the non-garbage stores, CHM has several stores Deptford lacks
including trendy H&M, Banana Republic, French Connection, Bebe. Eddie
Baeur did last in Deptford, but underperformed in CHM. So, although
Deptford has out beaten CHM, I wonder if its mostly from the addition
of the 4th anchor and success within the mainstream stores (like Foot
Locker, Aeropostale, Wet Seal etc.) than Deptford having a higher
clientele than CHM. The rest of the stores are pretty much the same.
Vacancies at both places are taken, unlike Moorestown and Echelon,
that have been depressed with vacancies, with little interest by
businesses, in joining the enclosed portions of the mall.
I'd say the only way Echelon could thrive (or Moorestown thrive), is
if one of the two dissapeared out of the competition. It was said
IKEA was looking for a place within South Jersey awhile back; They
considered both the racetrack and Echelon Mall sites. Echelon Mall
anchor sites were just bad location.
But, maybe the entire enclosed part of Moorestown Mall (which happens
to be one level anyways) could be gutted for IKEA or something
different though big, with still leaving the 4 Moorestown Mall anchors
in tact.
Moorestown Mall lost big time, when Promenade opened up. When Rouse
had announced the new Lord&Taylor and Strawbridge's, the intent was
also to distinguish the Moorestown Mall as the upscale place of the
three. Guess opened up, but was the really only upscale thing within
the enclosed part of the mall. Nothing else upscale opened and it
didn't happen, as the upscale businesses chose the outdoor choices in
Marlton.
Given the close proximity of the townships, it is not likely that a
store like Banana Republic or J.Crew would consider both places. Its
either one or the other.
>
>
> chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> > st...@temple.edu wrote in message news:<c8ab70$687$1...@cronkite.temple.edu>...
> > > chris <chris...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The western portion of Cherry Hill and Haddonfield Road, is pretty far
> > > > from the high income areas of Cherry Hill, and given the heavy dosage
> > > > of retail competition in Cherry Hill suburbs, JCPenney doesnt seem as
> > > > strong in that mall either. Target and Kohl's opened up on
> > > > Burlington-Mt.Holly Road, also presenting some danger for the
> > > > Burlington Center Mall JCPenney's.
>
> > > > Driving around the Cherry Hill Mall parking lot is a nightmare, and so
> > > > is walking from the Penney's end to Macy's. Echelon was always the
> > > > more sensible mall, as terms of walking and parking, only its location
> > > > was bad.
> > >
> > > Really? I live about a five minute drive from the Cherry Hill Mall and I
> > > have never found driving around the mall's parking lot to be a nightmare.
> > > One of the reasons, I think, the CHM continues to attract large crowds of
> > > shoppers is its close proximity to the cinemaplex across Route 38. I also
> > > don't find it any problem at all to walk between the Penny's and the
> > > Macy's in the CHM in any way.7
st...@temple.edu
Ray; today's South Jersey Courier Post has two interesting articles
about the Echelon Mall. They are front page articles. You can read these
articles online at http://www.courierpostonline.com/ for now.
There is reportedly a plan in the works to demolish the JC Penney store at
the Echelon Mall to make room for a large big box store. The mall's owners
have also just received a heavy reduction in real estate taxes due to the
consider loss of value of that property and the impending destruction of
the JC Penny space.
The article does not give any specifics as to what kind of store is going
in there. There is also a bit of historical information about the Echelon
Mall in this edition of the Courier Post.
R.J.
thanks for the Heads Up with the Echelon Mall information.
I am about to read it now. Please, always keep me posted if you hear
anything. I am taking my kids there, this coming Tuesday for a 3 Ring
Circus in the Mall Parking Lot near Boscovs. They are really trying
to do little things, to bring people to the mall when they can. I am
so confused as to what happened with Rouse and the Mall. I worked on
the new Seras Building, a few years ago, building it. Each day, at
Lunch Time, Id walk through the mall, eat lunch and all, and all the
stores were filled, and the place was pretty much hopping. As soon as
Sears closed a couple years later, everything seems to have fallen
apart. Most business owners in the mall, like Coffee Beanery and
others, actually despised Rouse, for their non support, or help of the
businesses.
Ray
st...@temple.edu wrote in message news:<c8o771$3i6$1...@cronkite.temple.edu>...
chris
> Hi Stan,
>
> thanks for the Heads Up with the Echelon Mall information.
> I am about to read it now. Please, always keep me posted if you hear
> anything. I am taking my kids there, this coming Tuesday for a 3 Ring
> Circus in the Mall Parking Lot near Boscovs. They are really trying
> to do little things, to bring people to the mall when they can. I am
> so confused as to what happened with Rouse and the Mall. I worked on
> the new Seras Building, a few years ago, building it. Each day, at
> Lunch Time, Id walk through the mall, eat lunch and all, and all the
> stores were filled, and the place was pretty much hopping. As soon as
> Sears closed a couple years later, everything seems to have fallen
> apart. Most business owners in the mall, like Coffee Beanery and
> others, actually despised Rouse, for their non support, or help of the
> businesses.
>
> Ray
>
I think you are wrong. The mall has had better times, but was never
totally filled. I can only go back to the early 90s, but Exhilarama!
shut down (early 1990s), the whole strip of plaza later just sat
vacant for years. It was only until Sears was built, they demolished
the Exhilarama, to make a path from the Boscov's to the traffic light.
The abandoned movie theater, for some reason, was not torn down. I
wonder if it will be pegged for demolition, in part of the
revitalizing the mall.
Banana Republic, Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie and other higher clientel
retailers were avoiding this place in the late 90s/2000--It was an
indicator, the inner part of the mall wasnt getting a full range of
stores, what other Rouse malls, or 4 anchor supported malls with
capacity for 150+ stores, were getting.
I can't understand why the flooring was never replaced in the mall,
either. It left the mall looking like shit inside. Seriously, why
would Banana Republic want to invest in an expensive store front, when
the mall itself looks like crap.
In stark constrast, a more managed mall-Hamilton Mall/Atlantic County,
which opened up much after Echelon in the 80s, has recently had new
flooring put throughout the mall.
Rouse Co. prevented Moorestown Mall from expanding and experiencing
true growth of itself, to protect Cherry Hill Mall. In 1997, the
prior owner Heitman Retail Properties announced plans to surpass
Cherry Hill, by adding a new Strawbridges, Lord&Taylor and Nordstrom,
second floor and a parking garage. Nordstrom would have been the 5th
anchor. For whatever reason, Nordstrom declined, but finding a 5th
anchor would not have been difficult (even Kohl's or Target would have
taken up on that location), given that Moorestown Mall site is off a
highway and is great location.
Only a Lord&Taylor and Strawbridge's came, on the site where
Wanamaker's-Hecht's came, no 5th anchor came, and no expansion to host
more enclosed inner stores.
Rouse bought the Moorestown mall, prevented the effort, to protect the
Cherry Hill Mall. In a way, they also were protecting CHM from
Echelon. I suppose the rationale was since they owned all three
malls, they could monopolize the situation and put as little effort in
all three, as they can to make them attractive. Keep one of them
strong, and not worry about the others.
"We look at the Rouse purchase of the Moorestown Mall as an absolute
strategic, defensive move for Cherry Hill"
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/1998/01/12/focus1.html"
Competing Promenade wasnt built, Deptford Mall was not renovated or
expanded(nor had JCPenney moved there), and discount retailers and big
boxes (like Target) were not as big a threat back then.
R.J.
Id love to know more about the Exhillarama, and its exact
location in the mall. Also, if there had been any fountains, or large
statues in the mall before? I can tell you, that i spent days for
weeks, and weekends, working on the construction of the Sears building
in the Echelon Mall, and believe me, it was hopping, weekdays, and
weekends, and weekend nights. I know for a fact, that nearly every
store in there was filled. On both Floors. I spent alot of time in
the Echelon Mall from 1998, till now, and from 1998 to about 2000 or
2001, the Mall was very Occupied with Tennants. And People walking
and shopping in it. I agree it could use a floor. Etc... But I spent
so much time in there with my Family, tha I got to know alot of the
retailers, and they were all Angry woith Rouse, due to his Neglect of
their Needs. Rouse pretty much dished the mall to where it is,
Highways, or no Highways, it had a very good amount of retailers and
Tennants. I was in there several times a week during these periods,
whcih is why I became so confused, when things began closing. I spoke
to many tennants about it, and all were very angry with Rouse.
Besides that, Id appreciate any history, locations, etc...
about earlier stages of the Echelon Mall. I know there was a guy not
too long ago, witha Website, dedicated to the Echelon Mall, with
Pictures and all, but I never got to see it, and it was a Comcast
Internet Address. I wish I could find the guy now.
Ray
chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04052...@posting.google.com>...
chris
>
> Id love to know more about the Exhillarama, and its exact
> location in the mall.
It was the old leased Camden County Library building, which used to be
considered part of the Echelon Mall (although no entrance, as with an
anchor store might have). After the library moved to the other side
of Laurel Road
http://ww1.camden.lib.nj.us/about/history.htm
the building and a strip of outdoor plazas was leased for businesses.
I dont know how many businesses actually opened up there, but I know
Exhilarama opened sometime post-Boscov taking the Stern's anchor. The
site, what would be considered a prime location (between the library
and food court), was not ever filled, after Exhilarama went out
business shortly.
There is still a vestige of the place. The big arch, with light
bulbs, across the library, used to have the Exhilarama sign. I am
surprised the big arch is not being used for other use, such as a
simple Echelon Mall sign or something.
Fast forward into the late 90s, when Sears was built, they decided to
demolish the Exhilaram building and outdoor tenants. I suppose to
accomodate greater parking by the food court, since much parking would
be lost on the other side where Sears construction was going on.
The grand opening of Sears may have caused some uptick in activity in
the mall, to a healthy level. Remember though, Moorestown Mall was
operating with just 2 anchors (Sears, and Boscov's)...as Strawbridge's
construction was going on, and was significantly weaker place.
However, prior to Sears, the JCPenney wing had significant vacancies.
A Woolworth store (which has closed so long ago) was boarded up and
not filled. It was of course, later demolished, in the process for
the Sears end. Some other vacancies, mostly smaller ones, have
always been here and there, especially around Boscovs.
The mall may have been 90% occupied when it was perceived healthy.
They did not demolish the movie theater (which had closed down
couple months earlier) for some reason, I suppose they thought the
site could get quickly filled.
Boscov's and the Camden County Library benefited from the demolition
of the Exhilarama plaza, and creation of road and parking from
Boscov's to the traffic light. Boscov's got a traffic light entrance
to their store, and the library got additional parking space.
However, the mall lost lot of youth and parents taking their youth,
with the closing of both the movie theater and Exhilarama attraction
and no replacement.
There may have been other peaks, but I would say the mall held really
strong (with high occupancy) before Sears was even there. Probably
when the movie theater had first run stuff, and attracted lot of
adults from around the region(before the building of Cinemark
Somerdale, Loews Cherry Hill, Ritz12(now16) Voorhees).
With more competition (big boxes effecting FYE, B.Dalton, etc.),
competition from other malls, the Echelon Mall could not hold up,
because it's fundamental weakness (bad location) could not counter the
loss of customers.
I really wish somebody does have snapshots of the place, from back in
the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Maybe the library itself has preserved
some stuff on it.
>Also, if there had been any fountains, or large
> statues in the mall before?
I know there were fountains but they were for some reason removed. I
think they are a waste of money anyways.
Carousels were short lived too. I remember the Boscov's end I believe
once had a carousel for children.
Although they may look nice, the Moorestown Mall food court has some
bad smell given off by the water fountain.
The Echelon food court is probably one of the most healthiest part of
the mall, today, and still is better than Moorestown's. The Echelon
owners did put quality tables and chairs there within the last couple
years too.
R.J.
Great information from you, as usual. I wanted to ask you
though. Was the Exhilarama a free standing Bldg that lead all the way
to the Mall? Was it sitting right where the Light Bulb Structure is
now? What kind of Plaza Stores were attached to it, and how were
they running? Was Laurel Oak Road not there, in front of Towers
Perrin at the time? I just did a Google Search on Exhilarama Echelon
Mall, and I found a guys Website, dedicated to Rollercoasters, with
some Photos of the Exhilarama, inside, rides, Skeeballs, etc.. and One
Outside Shot of it, looks like a Nightime Shot. However, his shots
are so Dark, its hard to make much out, looks like he needed a Better
Flash or something. But I am real curious as to where it sat in
relation to the Movies, and the McDonalds area of the Food Court, and
if the Plaza Stores ran off of it, towards the McDonalds?
As for the Movie Theatre, I went there with my Wife, in
about Thanksgiving of 1999, and we saw the movie, The Story of Us,
with Bruce Willis, we were the only 2 in the whole Theatre, and they
ran the movie just for us, it was kind of neat. Then it closed. I
think it may have been the last movie they showed there, not sure.
Also, I was curious as to where the Woolworths was? If the
Sears Bldg was Brand New, and Didnt exist prior, then where was the
Woolworths in relation to Sears? There is a Cubby Hole of store
there, that were occupied on both the upper and Lower Levels, when I
worked on Sears there. One was a Pretzel Snack shop, the other was
the Italian Treasures, now moved towards Boscov's.
The GAP just closed this past week also. There is a big
article in yesterdays Philadelphia Inquirer, with words from Voorhees
Mayor, Harry Platt, and all, about the Demolishing of the Penney's
Bldg. And how they intend to put 1 and even maybe 2 Big Box Stores on
the SIte. They are really wanting to get the Mall Moving again he
says, and the plans are in the works, however, he will not tell what
the Big Box Stores are, that they are looking to put there. Just that
they willbe brand new, and able to Custom Build them for the Big Box
stores needs. It was a pretty decent article. Thanks for your info.
chris
>
> Great information from you, as usual. I wanted to ask you
> though. Was the Exhilarama a free standing Bldg that lead all the way
> to the Mall?
Freestanding with separate entrance, though connected to the movie
theater. Movie theater connected to the mall. A strip plaza was in
front of part of the movie theater and building.
Was it sitting right where the Light Bulb Structure is
> now? What kind of Plaza Stores were attached to it, and how were
> they running?
I think a bank used to be there for awhile. If I recall right, there
wasnt much business on that strip. The strip looked like garbage, and
really detracted from the mall aesthetics, from the exterior. I don't
know what the Echelon Mall developers were thinking of using
lightbulbs as decor. The whole plaza was like that. Add most of the
foodcourt. Maybe it was a 70s thing. Although Boscov's seemed to
adopt it too, but it doesnt look so bad within Boscovs or the food
court. I was glad to see the plaza demolished, but did not understand
why they didnt go all the way, and demolish the old movie theater
also, which was closed when demolition of Exhilarama happened. It is
not as if AMC or United Artists (or some big chain) was going to
decide to move into an old theater.
I remember in the 90s, the foodcourt of the mall had Taco Bell, and
Boardwalk Fries, and Mr.Bulky's. Oh, there was so many other
businesses, but these are the ones I remember. The KFC on White Horse
Road became a KFC/TacoBell, and for whatever reason (maybe not enough
sales in Echelon), Taco Bell left Echelon. Boardwalk Fries (most the
food there isn't healthy anyways), didnt last long there too. I knew
the mall was okay, but was losing business. But, one cant really look
too much into that, because even the most successful places have
national businesses come and go. I always felt Moorestown, or even
CHM(although significantly doing better) are not that great either,
and are not doing as well as the Central NJ or D.C. area malls. Maybe
my expectation was high.
Was Laurel Oak Road not there, in front of Towers
> Perrin at the time? I just did a Google Search on Exhilarama Echelon
> Mall, and I found a guys Website, dedicated to Rollercoasters, with
> some Photos of the Exhilarama, inside, rides, Skeeballs, etc.. and One
> Outside Shot of it, looks like a Nightime Shot. However, his shots
> are so Dark, its hard to make much out, looks like he needed a Better
> Flash or something. But I am real curious as to where it sat in
> relation to the Movies, and the McDonalds area of the Food Court, and
> if the Plaza Stores ran off of it, towards the McDonalds?
>
It faced the Echelon Mall foodcourt parking lot.
> As for the Movie Theatre, I went there with my Wife, in
> about Thanksgiving of 1999, and we saw the movie, The Story of Us,
> with Bruce Willis, we were the only 2 in the whole Theatre, and they
> ran the movie just for us, it was kind of neat. Then it closed. I
> think it may have been the last movie they showed there, not sure.
They used to accomodate for Hindi movies at the theater too, on
certain occasions, after losing their regular audience. The theater
floor, I remember was kinda dirty when I went the last couple times.
I dont know what PREIT plans to do for that site. I would think it is
still a valuable site. I would think a pharmacy like a Walgreens
would do well on that site. There is senior citizen buildings, and
other housing, so close to the mall, and those people would go to a
closer pharmacy. The CVS, like other CVS stores in the mall, itself
does not have a pharmacy.
>
> Also, I was curious as to where the Woolworths was? If the
> Sears Bldg was Brand New, and Didnt exist prior, then where was the
> Woolworths in relation to Sears? There is a Cubby Hole of store
> there, that were occupied on both the upper and Lower Levels, when I
> worked on Sears there. One was a Pretzel Snack shop, the other was
> the Italian Treasures, now moved towards Boscov's.
The Woolworths used to be on the lower level, right next to the
JCPenney, not on the LensCrafters site. There was a pretzel snack
shop- I wasnt sure of my memory. Wow, this is so long ago! These
stores must have closed down sometime between 1987-1990. I was hardly
10 years old. Among the three Woolworths (CHM, Moorestown, Echelon),
it was the first one to close. I believe it closed 2 years before the
Woolworth chain dissapeared.
Unlike the CHM Woolworth, Echelon Woolworth did not have an outside
entrance.
As for sit down restaurants, there used to be a sit-down Chinese
restaurant (Mandarin Inn) opened much later (probably 1995). It was
across the vacuum repair store.
McDonalds once long ago had a sit down restaurant within the enclosed
part, near clothing stores, but moved to the foodcourt (also with a
separate but smaller sit down section) when Mr. Bulky's (a candy
store) closed down. Mr. Bulky's can be found in Moorestown Mall, now.
Mandarin Inn, the old Woolworth, was destroyed when Sears was built.
But, before Sears came, I noticed that these sites werent being taken
after they were closed. Maybe the 4th anchor planning (if it really
was planned out back then) put the sites as not available for other
businesses.
I think a big (recent) mistake overall was the 4th anchor add-in to
the Echelon Mall. It overmalled a mall that should not have been
overmalled.
For sake of example, if Boscov's, Strawbridges and JCPenney were
getting say (24%, 24%, 14% of traffic or sales) prior to Sears, then
the fourth anchor may have just taken sales away from the first three
, making a change respectively: Boscov's, Strawbridge's, JCPenney,
Sears (22%, 22%, 11%, 7%). Sears realized it couldn't operate with
such low sales (7% in my example), and closed. However, JCPenney
already lost some customerbase and sales when the Sears opened, making
it teetering on life. Being near an adjacent shell of an abandoned
store didnt help the situation, nor respectively poor end of the mall,
which is in a bad location as a whole. The Penney's was
underperforming and the chain closed it. When 2 anchors leave, it
gets the inner stores worried and looking for places out.
I would have thought adding the 5th anchor to Moorestown, as once
proposed, would have made more viable instead. The location is much
better.
>
> The GAP just closed this past week also. There is a big
> article in yesterdays Philadelphia Inquirer, with words from Voorhees
> Mayor, Harry Platt, and all, about the Demolishing of the Penney's
> Bldg. And how they intend to put 1 and even maybe 2 Big Box Stores on
> the SIte. They are really wanting to get the Mall Moving again he
> says, and the plans are in the works, however, he will not tell what
> the Big Box Stores are, that they are looking to put there. Just that
> they willbe brand new, and able to Custom Build them for the Big Box
> stores needs. It was a pretty decent article. Thanks for your info.
>
> Ray
>
Wow, I didnt expect GAP to leave. That is going to be a big drawback
for the teenagers or young adults. The loss of Penneys, Sears,
Gertrude & Hawk, and accessory stores was rather out of the picture
for this crowd.
I bet GAP is satisfied with their new Marlton GAP, an outdoor one in
Marlton Square where they probably pay much less rent, that they could
even close their Moorestown Mall one down too.
GAP has closed down stores even in malls, even not dying malls, where
the anchors are all occupied:
Westmoreland Mall, a mall in a suburb of Pittsburgh, lost a GAP
http://www.westmorelandmall.com/mall/westmoreland/west.nsf/alphalist?openform
(I read it on tenant-search. The mall has an Old Navy though).
As for big box or anything new at Echelon, I hope its not either of
the three: Home Depot, Lowe's or Walmart, I dont think it will help
the mall. Maybe a Walmart would not be bad as residents in Voorhees
would welcome it (as I mentioned Walgreens earlier), but either case,
it wont do wonders for the mall itself. Maybe PREIT has low
expectation so will take any offer that comes first, and just wants
some revitalization over there.
R.J.
have seen, including Central NJ, and PA and other areas. I think
Echelon Mall has the most beautiful site, character, and layout, along
with the Landscaping. Its really one of a lind, its huge, and still
has a Gigantic Parking lot, and all the Grass, Trees, Flowers, Hills,
etc...around it. Its not like some Giam Asphalt and Concrete
Structure. Its actually a peacefull alternative to the typical Mall.
I wish it all the sucess.
Ray
chris
> was planning on Closing, and leaving the Mall as well. I dont know if
> this is true. This is what I mean about Rumors Flying.
Something that just adds to that rumor is the following:
If you look at PREIT's leasing pages:
http://www.preitleasing.com/mall.asp?id=80
http://www.preitleasing.com/aerialpic.asp?id=80
It lists Strawbridge's as the only anchor.
Further worse,
http://www.preitleasing.com/factsheet.asp?id=80
It has Vacant 173,333 SQ. FT.
If you look back at Rouse Company's old website (in archive), the
Boscov's tenant site is 173,333 SQ.FT.
Are they implying that building is to be vacated? Quite sneaky of
them (PREIT) if they are going to do that, by not telling us directly.
The Boscov's seems to be busy when I go there, so it doesn't really
make sense to me. Boscov's does not have a Deptford store, and
although the Moorestown store is not far away, I dont see it making
sense for them to leave. Unlike Strawbridges which has clustered the
area, Boscov's just has 2 south western new jersey stores. Boscov's
actually has prime locations within both malls, and with closing of
Sears and Penney's, they should have captured some local market share.
Boscov's (the company as a whole) doesnt seem to be in distress and
they have added new stores elsewhere.
R.J.
I told you something was rumoring about Boscovs. There is
one other one though, at the Shore Mall, its kind of crappy compared
to these. I have found PREIT to be trying to do more family oriented
things, to draw attention to the mall, but nothing so far as actual
improvements. I have emailed PREIT direct, and also some members of
Voorhees Politics, and they are all Lock Lipped about everything. It
is very sneaky stuff going on, especially to loyal, and caring
customers such as my family. If you can find anything out, please let
me know. If it hadn't been for the constructions guys, drilling
around Penney's I would not know a thing, other than the whirlwind of
rumors.
But as I told you, directly across the street, where IHOP
Pancakes used to be, all those businesses are now vacated, except the
Car repair place, and the Hairdresser. Its as if there is a Disese
around the place lately, eating it alive.
Also, I wanted to ask you, right near the Ashland Train
Station, there is a bunch of Low Rise Looking Housing. Not the
apartments across from the mall, I mean up Burnt Mill Road, are these
Projects? Low Income Housing? That one stip center on Burnt Mill,
with TJ's Pizza is a real Shady Looking Center. I dont care for that
very much.
Ray
chris...@yahoo.com (chris) wrote in message news:<c154992d.04053...@posting.google.com>...
Mike Mc
echelon mall and your responses to my post on the
black horse pike shopping center. I stopped at the
echelon mall yesterday - I hope they do something with
it to save it - it is very nice - but not much in the
selection of stores. Also, I have been living less
than 10 minutes away from this place for over a year
- I would have never known it was there.
I tried to take some pic of the black horse center -
but there was actually a security guy in a truck eyeing
me up - although I did stop at blockbuster to rent a
movie. That place is truly dead except for
Blockbuster and the outlying acme, pep boys, etc. In
the inside corridor of the plaza there appears to be a
dance store open and a clothing store (Avenue) which
is having a going out of business sale. On the outer
side is a post office, rent a center and Chinese food
place. Even the blockbuster has the old style
blockbuster sign. The place is a haven for birds -
there are nests all over the place and tons of bird
crap. This place is going to be blown up at some
point. I will try to get back and snap some pics
another time.