What is Deism?

[Karen Wingoof]

Yeah... so... what is Deism?

[Aardwizz]

So you may have heard elsewhere that theism/atheism is about 'belief', while gnosticism/agnosticism is about 'knowledge'  If you combine the two concepts, you get a 4-quadrant grid.

In one quadrant, one can be atheistic + agnostic:  "Not only do I not believe in a god; I know that one does not/can not exist."

In another quadrant, one can be atheistic + gnostic:  "I don't believe in a god, but I cannot honestly say that there isn't one.  I just haven't seen any proof - yet."

In yet another quadrant, one can be theistic + gnostic: "God is knowable, and I believe in Him."

In the last quadrant is theistic + agnostic:  "I don't know anything about God, but I believe in Him just the same."

That last quadrant pretty much sums up 'deism'.  Some deists think that God started the whole ball rolling, but then took off, or is still on his 7th day break, or even died in childbirth.  Or that he simply doesn't care about / interfere with the day-to-day goings-on of the inhabitants of a small planet in a backwater corner of just another galaxy. He may watch, but he doesn't touch, ever.

From what I can tell, 'deism' still tends to personify "God", give Him some sort of human-like traits.. But he's an absent landlord.  A view that when God made the Universe, thee only building material He had was Himself, and so everything in the Universe, including us, is of God, is God, would not be strictly "deist" IMO.

If I had to choose, and wasn't allowed to pick that point where all 4 quadrants intersect, I'd put myself down for deism.  Perhaps it's just my cultural indoctrination or wish-fulfilment, or just my own ego talking, but it feels like there is SOMETHING "out there".  I just don't know what.

Yet.

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On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:25:17 AM UTC-5, Karen Wingoof wrote:

Yeah... so... what is Deism?

[Brendan McBride]

I'm not sold on "agnostic" and "gnostic" being opposites.  Here's a nice article by Robert M. Price that comes to mind:

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/websermons/agnosticgnostic.htm

 The distinction between "agnostic" and "gnostic" can be misleading and confusing because of the many connotations.  For me, it works better to say that wisdom is the opposite of knowledge.   The fundamental distinction is thus between "Objectivist/Perspectivist."  In that sense, LeVayan Satanists and Fundamentalist Chistians and Muslims have a great deal more in common epistemologically and psychologically among themselves than any of them have with mystics and scientists.

Uncertainty is Love. Not Knowing is God.

[Aardwizz]

Linguistically, 'gnostic' and 'agnostic' are opposites, since the 'a-' prefix means "not".  But I'm not one t to hold by strict dictionary definitions, as dictionaries often fail to list connotations, only denotations.  Even allowing that "gnostic" means "knowing", it doesn't say WHAT one knows.  Does one know that God is knowable, or that God is known.  The difference is important.

Some people prefer a system where instead of a grid, you have a spectrum with "theist" on one side, "atheist" on the other, and "agnostic" dead center between them.  The "Gnostics" (capital 'G') were an early/pre- Christian sect that lost the culture wars of their time.

"Wisdom is the opposite of knowledge" ??  I'm used to thinking that knowledge leads to wisdom, that wisdom is deep knowledge, not just facts but application of facts and the consequences of various applications.  That's why the wizened have wisdom (same root) -- they've been around long enough to get the experience needed to correctly apply knowledge instead of merely gathering it.

Do agree with the commonality between seemingly divergent groups (scientists and mystics in particular) and the lack of commonality between more similar seeming groups.  

Not sure what to make of "Uncertainty is Love. Not Knowing is God".  Knee-jerk reaction is "Orwellian Double-Speak".  But something hints at some wisdom there that requires much reflection.

õ¿õ¬

[Brendan McBride]

Grrrrrrr.  Wrote a careful response to your question and the forum swallowed it.

[Karen Wingoof]

Brendan and Aardwizzzz, you have given me a lot to think about here... I feel my brain getting new wrinkles... it kind of tickles. I'm going to process a little bit and then come back... I want to think about that quadrant idea - and try to imagine what lies at the place where all the lines intersect... want to think a bit about the connection between "wizened" and "wise" - that's kinda cool!... 

[Karen Wingoof]

[Karen Wingoof]

So... I've been thinking about this... I think I fit in the theistic gnostic quadrant... maybe...? 

[Karen Wingoof]