Carl, Douglas, and Kurt walk into a bar...
Karen Wingoof
Gary Harper
“If anybody possesses all the qualifications necessary for a fully ordained Expert in America today, Carl Sagan certainly has that dizzying eminence. Through frequent appearances on TV and in Parade (a news magazine circulated through hundreds of newspapers in their jumbo Sunday editions), Dr. Sagan has issued Expert verdicts on every possible controversial issue in science, and in politics, and even in theology, for three decades now. And, like the Experts who authenticated hundreds-to-thousands of Elmyrs, he has never once admitted he ever made a mistake.
You may wonder how a man who only has qualifications in astronomy can also function as an Expert on everything in general. Well, I think it requires Sagan to have a lot of raw courage, in the first place, and a strong, well-founded confidence that those who don’t believe his dogmas have much less access to the media than he does; if they answer him back, however effective their arguments, very few of his large, gullible audience will ever hear about it.”
Karen Wingoof
Karen Wingoof
On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:45:05 AM UTC-7, Gary Harper wrote:
Karen Wingoof
If you describe yourself as “Atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘Agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god— in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It’s easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously. - Douglas Adams
But our early man has a moment to reflect and he thinks to himself, “Well, this is an interesting world that I find myself in,” and then he asks himself a very treacherous question, a question that is totally meaningless and fallacious, but only comes about because of the nature of the sort of person he is, the sort of person he has evolved into, and the sort of person who has thrived because he thinks this particular way. Man the maker looks at his world and says, “So who made this, then?” Who made this?—you can see why it’s a treacherous question. Early man thinks, “Well, because there’s only one sort of being I know about who makes things, whoever made all this must therefore be a much bigger, much more powerful and necessarily invisible, one of me, and because I tend to be the strong one who does all the stuff, he’s probably male.” And so we have the idea of a God. - Douglas Adams
(If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would choose not to worship him anyway.) - Douglas Adams
When I read quotes like this, I find I totally agree with them... I do not want to worship a god who would send his creation to eternal damnation, either. And the idea of an anthropomorphic thunderbolt-throwing god makes no sense to me at all. And so I guess I am an atheist when it comes to that kind of a god. But... yeah... there's a "but"... :) I feel there's a SOMEthing, you know? A presence. A consciousness. I feel it. I had a conversation with an atheist (he called himself an anti-theist) doctor in New Orleans, Andrey Pavlov - really smart, really articulate - and when I told him I felt a presence of Love, and I call that presence "God" he said:
"This is interesting to me. I believe you, I really do. I absolutely believe that you have these experiences and feel the things you do as you say them. And I do not think these are evidence of any sort of psychiatric illness, cognitive dysfunction, or anything someone may call “abnormal.” I don’t really know (nobody does) but there is plenty of evidence to lead us to think that this is simply one of the many fluid ways in which an individual processes the universe around them. It is, IMO, important to realize that everything a person sees, feels,experiences in any way is highly processed by the software and hardware of our brains. We (mostly) all agree that an object which reflects electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 650nM looks “red.” But how do I know that what you actually experience as “red” is actually what I experience as “red”? I can’t know and you can’t know. That is what philosophers refer to as the “qualia” of life – that purely internal subjective processing and experience of life and the universe through the consciousness we have. "
That idea of "qualia" - I found that really interesting. And I've been wondering if my sense of a presence of Love is a sort of qualia...?
Buck "Buck" Buckaw, whether or not you see yourself as "brilliant" - you need to know that I've always enjoyed my conversations with you - your posts have often made me look at something in a new way - and they have also often made me laugh out loud - which is something I very much value.
On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:45:05 AM UTC-7, Gary Harper wrote:
Karen Wingoof
Saying the same things over and over, repeating the same old hobby horses, riding them into the ground and then giving them a sound thrashing for their trouble.
So here's the horse that I rode into the ground. I'm sure you will recognise it but I'll post it anyway so that you can share it on that notice board thingy of yours.
We were speaking of belief
Beliefs and conditioning
All belief possibly could be said to be the result of some conditioning
Thus, the study of history is simply the study of one system of beliefs deposing another
And so on, and so on, and so on
A psychologically tested belief of our time is the central nervous system
Which feeds its impulses directly to the brain, the conscious and subconscious
Is unable to discern between the real, and the vividly imagined experience
If there is a difference, and most of us believe there is
Am I being clear?
For to examine these concepts requires tremendous energy and discipline
To experience the now without preconception of belief
To allow the unknown to occur and to occur requires clarity
For where there is clarity there is no choice
And where there is choice, there is misery
But then why should anyone listen to me?
Why should i speak? Since i know nothing!
Swami Plus Strings
The Monkees
Head