View this page "Rolling Out the New Season"

[The Staff!]

Click on http://groups.google.com/group/pghdarters/web/rolling-out-the-new-season
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[Sean]

I applaud the changes made to the format and everyone's attempts to
streamline our dart matches but it would be better to accommodate the
teams and people already in the league (by getting out season
schedules, I don't know....the week before the start date of the
league, rather than the day before). If there are teams that really
want to play, we can add them next half of the season. Have a hard
money in by date and so be it. If people are not motivated enough to
square themselves away then WTF, why not? There are 4 teams on Monday
nights and have been for awhile. We aren't getting plaques for any
place finishes for our bar. They have sponsored us and treat us (and
the teams that come to our bar) pretty decent. I guess the question I
would have now is why the dart association? We know the bars we play
with, the teams and fellows we throw against, why the dart ass? The
league is not expanding and we have gotten nothing for the money we've
put into the league over the past 5 years.

I understand there is new management and whatever deplorable finical
situation the league is in has to be dealt with in a realistic fashion
by the new management but where are the benefits of membership?

[David Haudrich]

Just a few things about me before I start in on your questions. I have played in two very strong leagues before moving to Pittsburgh. Both Richmond VA, and St Louis MO., the thing that both of them had in common was that they had years of tradition, and players ranked in the nation. Both of these are important for a league because you had structure and a goal. Everyone want to win, that is why you play the game, alot of people play to get out of the house, meet with friends and you could go on and on with that. As far as the ranked players, they need the league to keep up their points and membership with the ADO. So these are a few reasons to have a association.
 As far as the money you put into it, the league could do a few things, as it is today, the first place team, and my understanding the second place team gets money, (is that right?) or you could lower the dues and have no payout and play for pride and a plaque for the bar, (I really don't need a plaque for my house). As one of my teammates said, "there is my two cents, or 1.2cents"
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:45:24 -0800
> Subject: Discussion on rolling-out-the-new-season
> From: scrb...@gmail.com
> To: pghda...@googlegroups.com

[crag...@comcast.net]

This past season we had two sets of dues.  One to play for pride paid,  to the pda.  One for money, paid for the top two teams.  The previous year was just one fee.  This is on top of the bar fees that are collected per season.  As far as the plaques I definitley want those awarded to my establishment if my teams win. ( My softball team has given me 2 plaques for Championships)  I pay bi-yearly dues on two teams and buy a round  of drinks for every home match.  I believe Pats I has placed first or second a few times.  No plaque has been awarded but I have seen some at other establishments.

As far as my competition level.  I play to win but also to have fun.  Money does not have to be involved to motivate me. Personal pride and my compettive spirit are more than enough.  Plus unlike others I truly have no time availiable to spend throwing darts more than on our league nights.

So the question is?  we pay bar fees, dues and cash prizes for the league to pay out.  Are teams getting paid and what happens with the dues and bar fees?  Do the  establishments get Plaques to hang?

 

thanks shawn

[nofug...@optonline.net]

        W T F is goin on out there people,while i am an outsider,i hate to see people bitchin bout darts,so just hadta chime in....every 1 has their own reasons for wanting to play,but i can only assume the MAIN REASONS ARE.....FUN-NITE OUT-HANGIN WIT FRIENDS-AND SOME COMPETITION AS WELL.competitiveness is usually only at the top divisions and thats fine and how it shud be.if u can can find a gud mix of competition and fun at top levels WELL THATS EVEN BETTER.........but people if u think its so easy to run a league u shud try yaself sometime!! NOT EASY TO DO,specially tryin to make every 1 happy all the time... IMPOSSIBLE AT ANY LEVEL.....CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG????

 

yours truly,

PHIL "MAD HATTER" FRIED

brooklyn,new york

[Chris McLaughlin]

Although it is nice playing for a couple dollars, I think the concensus would be the commradery makes it the most fun....and the booze always helps.  Are people complaining because it is too much money to pay for what the return is?  I agree, running a league is not easy, but I see no reason to start re-inventing the wheel here.  If the winning team wants a plaque or what not, they can buy one out of their winnings.  If the league wants to offer one, figure it into the fee, pre-season.  It can't be too much more per team to pay for a plaque.   My only thoughts are to keep the 401 DI/DO game, and maybe try and change the start time to 7:30pm.  --- On Wed, 3/4/09, nofug...@optonline.net <nofug...@optonline.net> wrote:

[pghda...@gmail.com]

OK folks, it looks like several points are raised that we (the Staff!)
should address, in addition to rolling out the league. Won't get to
them all here, but will sit down wiht the grand pooba and discuss.

1. Purpose of PDA. I find this a good point. Any organization should
be clear about its purpose and goals so that it can stay relevant.
The PDA needs to do that as much as anyone. And, we will in the
coming months. In the meantime, we've been trying to update a few
things, like this board, and (for myself) learn on the fly about the
PDA, and as you on Monday night should know ... oh so well... how to
schedule properly.

2. Payin/payout. Any member of a league is entitled to a know the
purpose of fees. I'll talk to the "money" side of the league about
explaining what the dues actually buy you. We will also try to track
down the promises of the past regarding prizes.

3. Scheduling. We are posting schedules as fast as we can. However,
if we were the strictest SOB's that we could be about demanding
payment and rosters, we would have one team on Monday, and two on
Tuesday. We have to be somewhat flexible. We have also taken an
approach to award and subtract team points for good pay/poor pay.
This approach is already seeing dividends.

That's all I've got for now.

Anto

[crag...@comcast.net]

If anyone thought I was bitching, I apologize. I have more experience running not for profit organizations than I care to elaborate on.  I have played rugby and held various offices, in college at PSU,  at mens club with the Pittsburgh RFC, I now coach at Robert Morris University. I this I have done for the love of competition and to promote the game. This is also why I throw darts. Competition and Promoting Patricks

As the owner of patricks i just wanted to know what was going on wtih the administration.  If you have seen my place anyone would realize a plaque won buy a patricks team would fit in great!   I am committed to fielding teams out of my establishment and look forward to adding a third.

 

shawn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris McLaughlin" <cmme...@yahoo.com>
To: pghda...@googlegroups.com

[Sean S]

First off, I was only trying to explain, in my obtuse way, the importance of getting hard schedules out there. Last season was a poor example of how to square stuff away. You can't accommodate everyone, that is the point. If you have 3 teams at the cut off date, you schedule those three teams and add teams the next seasoned time. We had our start date pushed back 2 or 3 weeks last season, because we were waiting for teams to get squared away. The Monday night division has 3 solid teams (not in terms of playing ability, though you can argue if you wish :) but in terms of showing up and playing. No forfeits, early or on time to play, we like each other. There is a good core of teams that, hell yes, could use an influx of new teams to expand our season and mix it up, but I also don't think we'd have a problem getting together and throwing against just ourselves for the next 5 years either. My main point was just get the schedule out. We can work on adding teams in the off time but we need a hard date, "a have your money in or you can't play till next season" date.

Yes, we could get plaques on our own and will for our bar. I just like explanations and reasons for why what was said or being done is not anymore. "Guys, the money situation is different than we thought. The people in charge in the past dropped the ball and we need to hold off and get squared away before we decide how to progress." That is fine. But not nothing.

And finally...Who is this dude from NY with the loud mouth? We can discuss our league and what is going on here without pennies from the peanut gallery being thrown around. All the lower case u's and poor expression of thought, I think wee can get alung on R own there  Ny dip steek. Thenks anyhew.

[darts...@gmail.com]

Obtuse might be an understatement, I don't know.
I don't know you or anything you stand for, but I feel that until and
unless you have dealt with the majority of people from this area, in
regard to this dart league, you have no conception of the word
"PROCRASTINATE". I have never in my life seen more people take their
time handing in dues.
By the way, one of several major expenses for the league is the FREE
BANQUET, which features a forum for players, members, officers and
other concerned people to state their suggestions for the advancement
of the league. It also features free food, beer of several types, free
mixers and several Tournaments of the "Luck of the Draw" type. I'll
even bet some of you don't know what "Luck of the Draw" means. I
didn't, until I was first invited to play, years ago.
The Luck of the Draw format is as follows: Everyone pitches in a small
amount of money, for an opportunity to put your name in a hat and have
your name drawn out with another random person, who will be your
partner for the duration of the tournament. This person could be your
best friend or the best or worst player you have ever seen, which is
where the challenge comes in to play.
You play best of three matches, mostly double elimination, until there
is a bonafide winner, 2nd place, 3rd place, etc. Each of the top teams
are rewarded with the winnings, commensurate with their performance;
i.e; 50% for first place, 25% for 2nd, etc.
I also forgot to mention that the social atmosphere is great,
including a possibility of a Texas Hold-em poker tourmanent, as well.
I am always disappointed when people don't show up, as this may be the
only time I get to play against the Monday Night Division. There have
been years...hell, decades, when some team doesn't even send one
representative to the Banquet, then all of a sudden they start having
concerns with changes of venue and rules that they want to hash out in
emails.
I submit the following: If you want to change rules, policies, payouts
or procedures, please, please, please, come to the banquet and bring
as many people who believe with you, and call for a vote.
I also submit, to the officers in the league: It may be time to re-
institute the Treasurer's State of the Funds Address or whatever you
want to call it. I just remember it was informative, detailing
incoming and outgoing funds.
As to your characterization of Phil (The MadHatter) Fried, I take
exception. I have not met a nicer, more approachable guy in all my
years of playing darts. He only looked in on our forum at the request
of Mike Anto, to see if he could help our league stabilize and grow,
as he is a very good, highly regarded dart player and has been
involved in many leagues and darts organizations. He may even be
thought of as an expert on this subject.
Childish name-calling and nit-picking have no place on this board. It
is comprised of adults, and how a guy chooses to express himself is up
to him. If Phil chose a non-yuppie, hipper version of expression than
you are comfortable with, I don't think that's his fault. I think his
points are well made and he tried to keep them light-hearted.
You are correct in your request for more stability, but the schedules
are dependent upon the number of teams that sign up, and the team
captains SHOULD have started putting together a team at the end of the
last season, but it seems as if many people can't decide if they want
to play or not.
I don't think you should blame the league, et al, but the players and
their captains for the delays.
<steps down from the soapbox>
Thanks for listening,

Dale W. Logue
darts...@hotmail.com

[Sean Salamey]

I stated what I stood for in my first and subsquent massages. Get the schedule out before the first day of the season. It was not personal. I did not attack anyone but the cheerleader after his first sis-boom-bah message.

I (or my team) has paid it's dues every season. I also went to the free banquets when I could. Up until the last two throwing seasons, the schedule was out in a timely manner regardless of how many teams we had playing. As I stated before, with the schedule only slated to come out the day before the start of the season, it looked as if we were headed in the same direction as last fall (which was a disgrace). I voiced my opinion that schedules should come out before the the season starts (which for what ever reason happened, thanks PDA League schedule dude).

I have participated in many LOD's. I also never said anything but good things about rules (which have changed substantially) or venues (which haven't changed that much at all). I only cared about getting the schedule out in a timely manner BEFORE THE START OF THE SEASON. Period.

I don't care if people who pay dues want to voice an opinion, paying those dues is a de facto permission to voice whatever opinion they want. But just having people join in the discussion from east jabib, either as the voice of reason or the voice of change is stupid, that is what personal emails are for. Example:" Hey Mike, Wow you guys are having a hard time getting squared away, well keep plugging along and you'll get where you need to go. Good luck your buddy from east jabib"

That you have a love affair with whomever and are bosom buddies and pinky swear friends for life does not mean that they have an insight or understanding into what has happened over the last two seasons (with scheduling) or any pertinent advice other than "X" is a great guy and he will do a good job...which I never questioned in the first place. I never made it personal (to the person running the scheduling) only expressed my displeasure that the schedule was coming out the day before the season starts. This has been fixed. I was personal to the dude from NY and don't apologize for that at all. All he did was cheerlead. He did not fix the schedule, or have suggestions for how that could be accomplished, or anything pertitent other than saying Mike is a great guys and rah-rah-sis-boom-bah. Mike is a great guy to me when he gets the schedule out before the first day the league starts (which he did so RAH RAH from my end) but don't ask me to thank someone for just puttting their two cents in, just becasue they wanted to put their two cents in.

[nofug...@optonline.net]

                            OK FINE,THEN ALL IS FORGIVEN AND FORGOTTEN,ONCE AGAIN, LETS JUST PLAY DARTS AND HAVE A SUCCESSFUL,FUN,COMPETITIVE SEASON... GUY FROM WEST BUMBLEF**K PA!

[darts...@gmail.com]

So, fine...

Mr. Antonetti did the legwork and got the teams, rosters, and promises
together and scheduled and reformatted our league.

How was your first night?

I got to play in a Double Cricket (loss), Double 401 (loss), Single
Chicago (win), and 701 (win$$).

The Match was well put-together and well-organized and over in plenty
of time to make it home before the 11o'clock news. I had great fun,
but, we always do when Bubba and the boys from Nico's are around.

As the evening wore on, I got more comfortable and played better. I
actually think that comfort and confidence carried over to Wednesday
night's Singles League, where I was able to score my first Ton 80, in
a League-sanctioned match (Yay, me!)

I vote that Mike Antonetti can keep his life. (For this week, anyway,
contingent on subsequent Ton 80's I throw, week-to-week, of course.)

[nofug...@optonline.net]

                        well the monday league www.nycdarts.com  (team name-b66-eagles)we r in our 4th or 5th week,tuesdays www.gothamcitydarts.com (team name-what the f**k) we r only in 2nd week,but...that league i was only subbin to pass the time,and ill b starting my REAL TUESDAY LEAGUE www.nydo.com (team name-slaughterhouse).wednesday nites (team name-ANTHONY'S ARROWS)(not sure of league website sorry) we r in our 5th week and im happy to say last nite was my 1st time ever i was PART OF A SHUT OUT! yup my team shut out the other one   21-0 felt great,and i hit 660 allstars(100s,r5(marks in cricket) and such..glad i dont have thursday darts its my only nite to relax durin a season in full swing :) :) :)....im glad ur able to relax yaself enuff to play well buddy....keep up the gud work and practice and maybe someday ull even beat me,or,hell,if its ok wit u maybe we can play mens doubles next year at youngstown tourney????? IT WUD B MY GREAT PLEASURE!!! anyways gud darts n talk to ya soon dale...

 

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