Pittsburgh food SUCKS
Jay L Gordon
How many agree with the above? Maybe I'm spoiled, and maybe I'm
pretending to be worldly or something, but growing up in the D.C. area,
going to school near Boston & having friends in New York has definitely
left me with a bad case of East Coast snobbism. There are really NO
restaurants in this town worth the price. I.e., either they are lousy
or too expensive even if they're good. I mean, even with a little
healthy competition blooming among the Indian restaurants (there are
like 5 now), the LUNCH "specials" hover around SEVEN bucks -- more than
20% more than what I've paid for DINNERS in New York.
Pizza? FORGET IT. I'll take Mineo's white pizza, MAYBE.
Chinese? New Dumpling House BARELY qualifies as acceptable.
"American"? Ooops, I forgot everyone in the U.S. lives for beef steaks
and burgers & thinks vegetables are those little funny colorful things
you shove to the perimeter of your plate. Are there ANY decent
vegetarian places? Or even places with more than pasta and/or cheese
chunks that can pass as vegetarian?
I'm sorry if this is becoming a 'whine-fest' but I had to vent my spleen
on this issue somewhere & it seemed the place to do it.
One thing that does not help matters are these ridiculous 'Best Ofs' and
reviews in In Pittsburgh which don't come right out and say, SORRY
FOLKS, for a good meal, you'll have to drive at least 4 hours!
One thing that WOULD help is if there were more competition, and I admit
that's asking a lot -- restauranteurs aren't going to suddenly swarm in
overnight.
Maybe somehow the mayor and whoever else is in charge of Pittsburgh's
"P.R." with the rest of the country should advertise some kind of
'talent search' for good restaurants, chefs, whatver. I realize that
investment in this down is down, but the recent mushrooming of little
cafes suggest to me that the character of the city IS getting a little
more cosmopolitan & MAYBE the time is ripe for a wave of "real"
restaurants.
Any comments welcome!
- Jay
Esther Filderman
Ahem. I apologize in advance to anyone offended by the tone of my reply,
but I'm tired of yet -another- juvenile ranting, and feel some kind of
perverse need to lower myself.
Now, then:
Excerpts from pgh.food: 4-Aug-94 Pittsburgh food SUCKS Jay L
Gor...@andrew.cmu. (1994)
> How many agree with the above?
Not I.
> Maybe I'm spoiled, and maybe I'm
> pretending to be worldly or something, but growing up in the D.C. area,
> going to school near Boston & having friends in New York has definitely
> left me with a bad case of East Coast snobbism.
Perhaps you should do yourself a favor and go back east, then. I've
eaten in some of the best restaurants in NYC and Boston, and I, and
others, feel there are some excellent places here. I somehow doubt
you're even giving places a chance if you're going to go in with the
assumption that "pittsburgh food sucks." Take your stuck up nose out of
your behind and attempt to have an open mind.
> There are really NO
> restaurants in this town worth the price.
Nonsense. Have you actually tried some of the places that have been
recommended here? Not only that, but you are going to have to make some
allowances for the locale. For example, you cannot compare the price of,
say, a lobster dinner in Pittsburgh with the price of a lobster dinner
in Boston. Or any other seafood, as (in case you haven't noticed) we're
inland. However, I've never found produce as fresh in NY as it is here
(except, when I was very young, and LI had big farms of fresh, sweet
corn...).
Pittsburgh, just like any other city, has it's share of bad, not so
good, and so-so restaurants, but there are very good places. However,
you must remember that Pittsburgh is not a huge city the size of Boston
and NYC.
Places I suggest trying:
The Rodi Grille House (in Penn Hills). Their fish is on the expensive
side, but very fresh and well done, as is everytyhing that comes with
the meal. Worth the price.
Miniutello's (which is undoubtedly misspelled, but in Shadyside) used
to have wonderful pizza and italian food. Can someone say if it still
does?
Sushi Kim (in the Strip) has great sushi and Korean food. I think
it's the best Sushi in town, but others will have their own opinions.
Sunday brunch at the Grand Concourse is an experience. It's between
$15-$20/person with tables and tables of delicacies and wonderful food,
including pancakes and omlets made by request.
Mediterranean Grill (in Squill) has fairly cheap and very good
middle-eastern food, quite a bit of it vegetarian.
Silk Pagoda (in Greenfield), I feel, is even better for Chinese food
than Dumpling House (which I like as well).
I'm sure others will suggest other places as well.
John R Groch
>
>How many agree with the above? Maybe I'm spoiled, and maybe I'm
>pretending to be worldly or something, but growing up in the D.C. area,
>going to school near Boston & having friends in New York has definitely
>left me with a bad case of East Coast snobbism.
Yes, you are spoiled -- not in the "irreversably-elevated-expectations"
sense but in the "whining-little-pissant" sense. I don't know what you're
a graduate student in, but I sure as hell hope it isn't history,
sociology, or economics, because I would expect anyone earning a degree in
one of those fields to notice that Pittsburgh is decidedly (1) smaller and
(2) more working-class than any of the food Meccas for which you
whine/pine. To the surprise of no one except you, this town boasts a
different food culture than (1) the largest city in the US and the
financial center of the Western world; (2) the city that is home to our
permanent and permanently-bloated governing class; and (3) a city with
more than 40 colleges in its metropolitan area. It is not, and probably
never will be, one of America's great eating cities. As we used to say in
the 5th grade: Duh.
Pittsburgh is what it is, and those of us who come here from other places
(I'm a native Chicagoan and erstwhile New Englander and New Yorker myself)
do well to remember that. And when we participate in this group, it is
toward the end of inquiring or suggesting what might and might not be a
good dining experience for us in the here and now. Lurk here a while and
you may notice that no one is claiming that Cafe Azure could give Lutece a
run for its money or that Mad Mex is a bit of LA in the 'burgh.
Incidently, it's telling to me that the only two restaurants you mention
by name are in the same East End neighborhood, probably the one in which
you live; Washingtonians, along with New Yorkers, have always seemed to me
the most provincial of urbanites. Try exploring the environs before you
trash them.
Oh, annd by the way: if your idea of what a mayor does in the post-Reagan
age of more poor people and less municiple money is to lure better
restaurants to a city, I hope to God your future plans don't include
public service. Just a guess: you grew up in the suburbs, right?
>Any comments welcome!
>
>- Jay
You got 'em, bucko.
JRG
Jay L Gordon
newsgroup. for repeating the obvious, i'm sorry. but why just snap
back & not take my more substantive (i thought) suggestion in mind &
respond to that instead? i'm trying to see the whole issue in realistic
terms. east coast towns are MUCH denser and diverse that pittsburgh.
that's not a 'critique' but a fact, as far as i know. and i never said
there's no good food, or if i did, i meant there are no good DEALS. and
of course my subject header was designed to attract attention. call it
flame bait, if you want, but i tried to follow up on my spasm with a
'real' point.
as for those who want to 'defend' this town, i don't know what to say.
maybe that's my problem here -- i was just venting. and maybe i thought
i'd see to what degree people here have deluded themselves into thinking
what they've got is good. every town has it's ups and downs -- i LOVE a
lot of aspects of pittsburgh. but the food, well, forget it. i don't
care how many individual restaurants you point to, every one of them
together won't add up to more than 20 i bet, and among those you'll find
a lot of mixed reviews.
as for the surmise that i haven't sampled the local fare. HA! i've
been to damn near every restaurant in town, or so it feels. i have that
'entertainment' coupon book & have used it a lot. i've also tried as
much as possible to scope out the good meals, with little luck.
sure, i could find some tasty food, but my point was that in general,
this town needs a little more to satisfy. it's not a point of mine to
be snobby -- to the contrary, as i said i like pittsburgh & want to
support it. lack of interest in the convention center, for instance,
means lack of business for the town and fewer prospects for investment.
that stuff does interest me.
i'm not a native, but i've been here 3 years -- in that time it seems
like almost half a dozen little cafe's popped up. good! i don't hang
out at them, but when i want a cup of espresso or whatever, it's right
there. would you have said 3 years that i was some juvenile whiner if i
complained of a lack of cafe's?
i don't know -- a city isn't much fun without a lot of good restaurants
& good deals. it's part of what makes a city a city & not a 'big small
town' as i heard people call pittsburgh once.
well, enough apologizing.
by the way, i eat out probably 6 to 8 times a week, if you include
lunches. so it's not like i'm sitting at home eating patio burritos &
bitching my heart out just to amuse myself.
- jay
Peter Su
> Silk Pagoda (in Greenfield), I feel, is even better for Chinese food
>than Dumpling House (which I like as well).
For Chinese in PGH, I haven't had better than Zaw's. Forget the fried
rice, their dishes, while not fancy, do taste like real food instead
of over-salted greaseballs in one of 2 sauces.
What I've had at Dumpling House is, well, "eh...".
For other fun stuff, the vietnamese noodle joint in the strip is
good. Only for noodles though. The other food i've had there is pretty
lousy.
You think the food is bad in the city, try the North Hills. Gads.
Pete, who would be happy if just one place in PGH could make chinese
dumplings like his mom. ;-)
George H Pike
>on this issue somewhere & it seemed the place to do it.
>
>
OK, Jay, here goes. I usually have a rule that I don't respond to
gratuitous statements that scream to start a flame-war, simply because I
don't want to indulge the petty ego of the instigator, but in your case I
will.
I've lived in Pgh for a whole 2 months now and have enjoyed pgh.food more
than any other newsgroup I've ever subscribed to. My wife and I enjoy
going out and it is very helpful to get "real eaters" - as opposed to
professional reviewers - reviews of restaurants. We have followed several
of the recommendations without complaint or diagreement, and I've been
compiling a list for future reference.
What I don't read this group for is whiney overgeneralizations and
comparisons such as yours. It is that kind of attitude that creates an
environment where all police are crooked, all lawyers are sharks, all
black teens are gangsters, etc. etc. Clearly an oversimplistic and
dangerous attitude that the first amendment guarentees you, but really
kinda stinks.
As for your culinary observations, suffice it to say, I disagree. I've
eaten in Boston, New York, D.C. on various travel excursions, as well as
San Francisco, Seattle, Kansas City, Portland, OR, New Orlean's and
others. Each place had meals and prices that were good, and were those
that were poor. (A great meal at a great price in NYC ended up giving me
a great case of the runs, so there for New York.) Pgh is just the same, I
have gotten good meals at good prices (couldn't belive the size and
quality of yesterdays fish sandwich special at The Decade in Oakland), and
some haven't been as good.
The point is, I don't try to generalize a city by a few. Most folks of
some education and insight don't.
Why don't you try to open up your narrow mind, or at least leave it where
it belongs.
Now that I've broken my own rule about responding to flame-wars, I
encourage others to minimize responses so pgh.food can get back to its
true purpose.
Thanks.
George H. Pike
Pitt Law Library
ho...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
gro...@pitt.edu (John R Groch) writes:>
[rant about lack of "sophisticated East Coast snob food" deleted]
>>Any comments welcome!
>>
>>- Jay
[Mr. Groch sets Jay straight - snipped]
>You got 'em, bucko.
>
>JRG
>
You tell 'em dude! Oh, and save my place at Eat'n'Park!
Al
Mark A Stephens
August 5, 1994
Dear Mr. Jay L. Gordan,
After reading your first dozen posts, I sat myself down and
prepared a list of unique and exquistite dining experiences that even
the most discerning New Yorker would enjoy here in Pittsburgh. I felt
challanged by what I preceived to be an experienced and prehaps jaded
palate. However, after reading your list of "approved" restraurants I
would suggest that you move to Schenectady, NY.
" de gustibus non disputandum "
Sincerely,
Mark A. Stephens
Peter Berger
George H Pike <gpi...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>Pgh is just the same, I
>have gotten good meals at good prices (couldn't belive the size and
>quality of yesterdays fish sandwich special at The Decade in Oakland), and
>some haven't been as good.
This reminds me. Is the Decade Oakland's best kept secret, or what? I
discovered this place while in law school. I had always assumes they were
just a rock club, but it turns out they have a very inexpensive and
*wonderful* lunch menu. Check it out sometime.
--
........................................................................
Peter G. Berger, Esq. Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh
Internet: pet...@telerama.lm.com Phone: 412/481-3505 Fax: 412/481-8568
http://www.lm.com/ gopher://gopher.lm.com/ ftp://ftp.lm.com/
Gretchen Miller
A Stephens@andrew.c (761)
> After reading your first dozen posts, I sat myself down and
> prepared a list of unique and exquistite dining experiences that even
> the most discerning New Yorker would enjoy here in Pittsburgh. I felt
> challanged by what I preceived to be an experienced and prehaps jaded
> palate.
Aww, come-on....Don't leave the rest of us "seeking the perfect dining
experience in Pittsburgh" folk in suspense...... Frankly, while I've had
some excellent experiences, I haven't had the "perfect" experience since
A. Sarah handed the Iron and Glass Garden to her grandson, and B. The
Hyatt replaced their old resturant (whose name I can't remember).
toodles, gretchen
Bill Thomas
Gor...@andrew.cmu.
> pretending to be worldly or something, but growing up in the D.C. area,
> going to school near Boston & having friends in New York has definitely
> left me with a bad case of East Coast snobbism.
Where's that guy with the pizza cutter. As I recall he was keeping it
sharp for just such an occasion.
Paul Heckbert
greek: I haven't found a good Greek restaurant in Pgh yet.
Suzie's is ok, Ali Baba is ok (goes to show you how much "best middle
eastern food in Pittsburgh" means!), and the yearly Greek festival near
Forbes & Craig is really quite disappointing for food quality!
american food: the restaurant at the Holiday Inn in Oakland has surprisingly
good food (but I last ate there over a year ago). check it out.
If Jay was looking for food that is both cheap and excellent, then my list
may not be for him. I've listed some places (e.g. Cafe Allegro, Davio's)
that are moderately expensive. My primary criterion is food quality,
not price.
Paul Heckbert
Jay L Gordon <jg...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Pittsburgh food SUCKS
>
> How many agree with the above?
I do, for the most part.
As a rule, Pittsburgh food sucks, but there are exceptions, thank god.
Why does the food suck here so bad, you might ask? Here's my theory:
Pittsburgh, though it was a very vibrant city early in the century,
had a massive economic slump for the past 30 years or so, and so a
lot of the younger customers and entrepreneurial restauranteurs have
probably packed up and moved elsewhere. This leaves Pittsburgh with an
older, less adventurous clientele than most cities its size. Decades
ago it must have been a very exciting melting-pot of European
immigrants, with good restaurants, I would imagine, but now it is
quite sleepy. Pittsburgh has more natives, and less worldly natives,
than many American cities, so many of its residents aren't discriminating
restaurant-goers. In short, a large fraction of Pittsburghers don't
know good foreign food because they've never had it! Take such people
to Chi-Chi's and they'll think it's good Mexican food! If the city had
had more discriminating customers, then we'd probably still have
Laforet, which was one of Pittsburgh's best restaurants, and Paradise
on Craig, one of its few semi-vegetarian restaurants (both closed
within the past year or so). I would expect things to improve over the
next few decades, though, as the cheap housing and rent attracts young
immigrants from other parts of the US or from foreign countries, more
gentrification takes place, a few more upscale restaurants open, and
the food business becomes more competetive.
[there, that should divert some of the invective, Jay!]
I've lived in Pittsburgh for two years, and I don't go out frequently,
now that I have a kid, but I've done a fair amount of restaurant sampling
around town. Prior to moving here, I lived in San Jose CA, Boston, Long
Island, San Rafael CA, Berkeley, and the Netherlands.
(The food here is better than in most of the Netherlands, if that's any
consolation. But you go to almost ANY Mexican, Chinese, Thai, or Vegetarian
restaurant in the San Francisco area, and you'll have better food than some
of "the best" of Pittsburgh's restaurants.)
Jay, to make the most of what Pittsburgh's got, here are my recommendations:
nouvelle/california cuisine: Cafe Allegro on the South side -- probably the
best restaurant in Pittsburgh
chinese: none are NY or SF-class, but China Palace in Shadyside is quite good.
thai: Siamese Kitchen on Forbes in Squirrel Hill is quite good.
try green curried chicken
indian: Pittsburgh has surprisingly good Indian food!
Taste of India on Penn Ave and India Garden on Atwood are very good.
Darbar is pretty good too.
italian: Davio's on Broadway in Oceanview (South Hills) is quite good (but busy)
mexican: Big disappointment. No great mexican food in Pittsburgh.
Try Mad Mex on Attwood in Oakland, however, for pseudo-nouvelle?mexican.
vegetarian: zip! grow and cook your own, I guess!
pizza: none are great. Vincent's in Forest Hills is ok.
And stay away from: Jimmy Tsang's and Chi-Chi's!
Another good thing for us all to do is keep pgh.food alive, tell our friends
about good & bad restaurants, so that our "good taste" [ :-) ] will propagate,
call up Ann Haigh's restaurant talk show with Phil Musik (sp?) on WTAE
(AM 1250) Monday evenings (9pm?) and voice our opinions. I'd love to
hear somebody call up that show (Jay?) and say "Pittsburgh Restaurants Suck!".
-Paul
PS: The fish and produce at Pittsburgh grocery stores SUCKS too,
for the most part. Would Pittsburghers know a ripe peach, a good avocado,
or a good trout if it smacked them in the face?
Paul Fritschle
>For Chinese in PGH, I haven't had better than Zaw's. Forget the fried
>rice, their dishes, while not fancy, do taste like real food instead
>of over-salted greaseballs in one of 2 sauces.
*sigh* I just moved back out to California, after having lived in
Squirrel Hill for 3 years, and would *kill* for a pint of their
hot'n'sour soup. 8-(
--
Paul Fritschle si...@netcom.com
Puritanism--The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.
-H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
Christian Lebiere
> had more discriminating customers, then we'd probably still have
> Laforet, which was one of Pittsburgh's best restaurants, and Paradise
> on Craig, one of its few semi-vegetarian restaurants (both closed
> within the past year or so). I would expect things to improve over the
As an at least occasional patron of both restaurants and vaguely
familiar with the situation, I would say that they were both reasonably
(though not wildly) successful and that the reasons for closing had
little to do with economics. I generally agree with your analysis
though. One possible additional variable in the evolution of the
Pittsburgh restaurant scene is the introduction of legalized gambling.
Some claim that gambling will draw money from other sources of
entertainment, including dining expenditures. I personally think that
professional sports teams will be much harder hit though, which would be
at least one good side effect.
bj...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
old. Could it be possible that I had a great New York strip steak or
have I become less discriminating? We've lived in Pgh for 3 years, moved
from NJ, and I really have missed the 'metro area's' great
restaurants. Last weekend I had some Omaha steaks, though, and I must
admit the steak at Friday's was almost as good. Maybe they tenderize
them somehow? It had a good texture as well as good flavor and it
didn't seem 'doctored' (the way the horrible beef is at Hoss's).
Anyone else have an opinion on Friday's? Usually I avoid chain
restaurants, but the kids love them. Our favorite restaurant in
Pittsburgh so far (I'm a great optimist) is Davio's. My husband & I went
there on our anniversary and my only regret is drinking too much wine.
The food was wonderful! Plus we got a personal tour of the new place
next door (is it open yet?) by the chef. Who, by the way, started out
working for David (Davio) making pizza. David taught him everything he
knows and I must say, the kid has a talent.
Another favorite of ours is Kleiner Deutschmann. The chef there visits
the tables, also. I really like that touch. Their German food is great.
Thanks, by the way, for those who recommended Davio's. Keep up the
reviews, I love this group!!!
Christina Schulman
>The food here is better than in most of the Netherlands, if that's any
>consolation.
Hey. Some of us *like* chocolate sprinkle sandwiches and eggrolls the size
of my forearm. And I'd kill for a good local source of cumijnekaas and
boerkaas.
But it's great to live in a city where there is absolutely zero chance of
being approached by a street vendor with a cart of pickled herring and
eels.
Ob. Pittsburgh food:
>mexican: Big disappointment. No great mexican food in Pittsburgh.
> Try Mad Mex on Attwood in Oakland, however, for pseudo-nouvelle?mexican.
I don't have much experience of great Mexican food, but I'm quite fond of
the Fajita Grill in Pleasant Hills. (Then again, I like chocolate sprinkle
sandwiches, so my judgement is suspect.)
--
Christina Schulman schu...@pitt.edu schu...@michael.nmr.upmc.edu
bulle...@gmail.com
Pittsburgh never survived the steel industry collapse! I went there a few months ago and thought I moved to the 1960s.
The 'haute cuisine' is generally in a diner (one of the burgh's 'best' features a
sandwich with Texas toast/bread, your choice of meat, cole slaw, I think, and a stack
of really bad french fries! With this fry obsession, you think they could make good
fries, but they don't. I gagged badly; it's like a mash potato sandwich), archaic state
stores, cigarettes everywhere, bitter blue collar white men, blaming everyone else
for their misery, horns are, apparently, the most useful part of the car and screaming
out the window is optional. You can't park a car without a ticket or a tow. Streets so bad
that google maps has given up. And yes, the sports deities (Steelers, Pens and Pirates)
are way over the top.
That is all they have out here. I still have nightmares.
Recently, I saw Sevens in Boston referred to as a 'dive bar'. This Beacon Hill pub would be a four star attraction in Pittsburgh.