Who am I?What did I do?When did I do it?

[Snuff]

Hugh De Paynes?

[Sir.Mike]

Hugues de Payen (1070-1136) born in Chateau Payens France, was co-
founder of the Knights Templar and was the first Grand Master (20
years) - Knight of the first Crusade (Total 8 Crusades in history).
Side note: down the family tree of this Sir Knight, we find Thomas
Paine (1780-1840).

-He organized the original nine monk-knights to defend pilgrims to the
Holy Land in response to the call to action of Pope Urban II.
Eight knights - two were brothers and all of whom were his
relatives by either blood or marriage, in order to form the first of
the Knights Templar.
The other knights were Godfrey de Saint-Omer, Payen de
Montdidier, Archambaud de St. Agnan, Andre de Montbard, Geoffrey
Bison, and two men recorded only by the names of Rossal and Gondamer.
The ninth knight remains unknown, although some have speculated
that it was Count Hugh of Champagne himself.

-As Grand Master, he led the Order for almost twenty years until his
death, helping to establish the Order's foundations as an important
and influential international military and financial institution.

-On his visit to England and Scotland in 1128, he raised men and money
for the Order, and also founded their first House in London and
another near Edinburgh at Balantrodoch, now known as Temple,
Midlothian.

-He died in Palestine in 1136 and was succeeded as Grand Master by
Robert de Craon.

"1130. Hugh de Payens, having now laid in Europe the foundations of
the great monastic and military institution of the Temple, which was
destined shortly to spread its ramifications to the remotest quarters
of Christendom, returned to Palestine at the head of a valiant band of
newly-elected Templars, drawn principally from France and England. On
their arrival at Jerusalem they were received with great distinction
by the king, the clergy, and the barons of the Latin kingdom.

Then the days of Hugh de Payens drew to a close. After governing the
Order for twenty-one years, and seeing it rise and hold the highest
position among the warrior bands of Palestine under his care, and the
continued patronage of St. Bernard, who never failed, while writing to
the East, to mention it with honor, and to recommend it to the notice
of kings and nobles, this gallant soldier of the Cross died in 1139.
Everything that is estimable in man is to be discovered in the
character of de Payens; no word of calumny has been breathed by the
noble and the just upon this truly great man; and though some later
writers have attempted to blacken his fair fame. There can be little
doubt that no dishonorable action sullied his life, and that he
descended to the tomb, as he had lived, without reproach."

- Charles Addison - Knights Templars

On Aug 5, 5:35 pm, Snuff <btg...@charter.net> wrote:
> Hugh De Paynes?

[btg...@charter.net]

Mike you are great when it come to this type stuff, yet I have another one for you. I am sure you will get it, but here it goes anyway.

Before they where called the Knights Templar, they where called what? Before that they where called something else. What was that?

What was the name of the order which all the KT originated?

[Sir.Mike]

The Templars were organized as a monastic order, similar to Bernard's
Cistercian Order, which was considered the first effective
international organization in Europe and the Near East. 1119 Hugues de
Payens and his relative Godfrey de Saint-Omer proposed the creation of
a monastic order for the protection of the pilgrims. The names of the
Templars were The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of
Solomon and Order of the Temple.

[Sir.Mike]

There are different theories that tie the historical Templars to
Masonry, but nothing concrete is found that shows the Orders being
linked and I believe that is what makes it difficult for historians to
come to a definite conclusion.

But I believe that the possibility is great considering that there is
nothing showing the exact date of when Freemasonry started or was
founded, evidence showing that it existed many years before Solomon's
Temple. There's nothing that says the Order could not have came across
certain Operative Masons during the time of the Crusades. And even
after the death of DeMolay, there is even a greater chance that
surviving Knights may have became Operative and also Speculative
Masons and their descendants throughout history. I.E. we see that
Thomas Paine was a Freemason and it was his ancestor who co-founded
the Templars.

There's a tie somewhere in time that links the two Orders... But when
exactly did the two historical Orders meet and where? Scotland,
perhaps? Somewhere in France before the French revolution and after
the death of DeMolay?

[btg...@charter.net]

yes but Hugh and St. Omer where members of a society before they formed the group we now call the Templar's, who started off with the original name of the Patriarchs Patrol and later changed it to the Poor Soldiers of Jesus Christ. Hughs God Father raised him in this order, to what we call the Sublime Degree, his father and Grandfather sponsored him or taught him his lessons for advancement. I wonder if you could give me the name of that order? Had they not formed the Templars, some twenty years after taking the Holy City, then they would have all been members of this order, which we would have never heard of, instead the name transferred the original Brothers of_ _ _
into the other group which became finally known to be Knights Templar. Hugh De Payne's was 18 years of age, the minimum you could be, when sought out by his father to join the original order. He was in his late thirties or early forties when the Templars asked to become Warrior Monks and it was granted by the Archbishop and King and not until after they had saved the Queens life did the idea to do so come to them. The purpose for such an idea we will leave for discussion between ourselves when we can talk in person.

--
Pulsanti Operietur/
Christi crux est mea lux.

Brother Buddy Ganus
WM Pleasant Grove #909
"Audi,Vide,Tace Si Vis Vivere in Pace"

[Sir.Mike]

I'm at a loss on this one... I can't find anything pre-Templars about
another order....

[btg...@charter.net]

Some call it the Order of Rebirth of Sion.