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Thank you Sajjad bhai for your honest and eloquent contribution. Even at this age, and even though I have some misgivings about the project, I would have gone to Shahbagh to experience the moment (and then try to understand the phenomenon). I am, in many ways, thrilled, but also a bit troubled and a little baffled by it all.
How does one deal with this moral dilemma – can someone opposed to capital punishment as a matter of principle, be supportive of the movement as a matter of political necessity? If someone can help me to navigate through this, I will be immensely grateful.
Ahrar
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নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক, বরিশাল
From: Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com>
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: projonma chattar - ফিরেছে বিস্ফোরণে তুমুল একাত্তর........
Street politics over justice by court: After 40 years we are back to BKSAL CHATONA's fascist anarchy again!
Hasina's golden boy's(Chatro L:eague cadres) in action again. BM Colle ge Principal Shonkor Chondra manhandled
Inboxx
Mohiuddin Anwar Feb 12 (2 days ago)
বিএম কলেজের অধ্যক্ষকে ছাত্রলীগ নেতাদের মারধরবুধবার, ১৩ ফেব্রুয়ারি ২০১৩জিয়া শাহীন, বরিশাল থেকে: বরিশাল সরকারি ব্রজমোহন (বিএম) কলেজের নতুন অধ্যক্ষ প্রফেসর শংকর চন্দ্র দত্তকে মারধর করেছে ছাত্রলীগ নেতাকর্মীরা। ছাত্র সংসদের আদলে গঠিত ছাত্রলীগ সমর্থিত অস্থায়ী ছাত্র কর্মপরিষদের নেতাকর্মীরা এ ঘটনা ঘটায় গতকাল দুপুরের দিকে কলেজ সংলগ্ন পেট্রল পাম্প এলাকায়।প্রত্যক্ষদর্শীরা জানান, অধ্যক্ষ শংকর চন্দ্র দত্ত তার নতুন কর্মস্থল বিএম কলেজে যোগ দিতে আসছেন এমন খবরে সকাল থেকে কলেজের সামনের রাস্তায় বেঞ্চ ফেলে ও টায়ারে অগ্নি সংযোগ করে সড়ক অবরোধ করে রাখে কর্মপরিষদের নেতাকর্মীরা।কর্মস্থলে যোগদানের উদ্দেশে বেলা সাড়ে ১২টার দিকে বিএম কলেজে আসার সময় পেট্রল পাম্প এলাকায় পৌঁছালে কর্মপরিষদের সহ-সভাপতি ও কলেজ শাখা ছাত্রলীগের যুগ্ম আহ্বায়ক মঈন তুষারের নেতৃত্বে কর্মপরিষদের নেতাকর্মীরা অধ্যক্ষের ওপর হামলা চালায়। এসময় কর্মপরিষদের সাধারণ সম্পাদক ও ছাত্রলীগের অপর যুগ্ম আহ্বায়ক নাহিদ সেরনিয়াবাত, কর্মপরিষদের ছাত্র মিলনায়তন সম্পাদক জোবায়ের আলম, সদস্য সাদ্দাম হোসেন শোভন, ছাত্রলীগ ক্যাডার সোহাগ উপস্থিত ছিল। মারধরের পর তারা অধ্যক্ষকে তাড়িয়ে দেয়।এব্যাপারে কর্মপরিষদের সহ-সভাপতি মঈন তুষার বলেন, অধ্যক্ষ শংকর চন্দ্র দত্তের ওপর হামলার খবর শুনেছেন। তবে সে সময় তিনি সেখানে উপস্থিত ছিলেন না। সাধারণ ছাত্ররা এ ঘটনা ঘটিয়েছে।বরিশাল মেট্রোপলিটন পুলিশের কমিশনার মো. শামসুদ্দিন জানান, সকাল থেকে ক্যাম্পাসে পুলিশ মোতায়েন ছিল। এখনও পুলিশ মোতায়েন রয়েছে। অধ্যক্ষ শংকর চন্দ্র দত্ত ক্যাম্পাসের বাইরে হামলার শিকার হয়েছেন।কলেজ সূত্রে জানা গেছে, গত ৩০শে জানুয়ারি শিক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় এক প্রজ্ঞাপনের মাধ্যমে বিএম কলেজের সাবেক অধ্যক্ষ প্রফেসর ড. ননী গোপাল দাসকে খুলনা সরকারি ব্রজলাল (বিএল) কলেজের অর্থনীতি বিভাগের অধ্যাপক পদে বদলি করে। আর বরিশালের চাখার সরকারি ফজলুল হক কলেজের অধ্যক্ষ প্রফেসর শংকর চন্দ্র দত্তকে বিএম কলেজের অধ্যক্ষ পদে বদলি করা হয়।এ খবরে ক্ষুব্ধ হয়ে ওঠে ছাত্রলীগ। ওই দিন সন্ধ্যায় কর্মপরিষদ নেতা মঈন তুষার ও নাহিদ সেরনিয়াবাতের নির্দেশে তাৎক্ষণিক কলেজের সামনের সড়ক অবরোধ করে তারা। তারা টায়ার ও কাঠের বেঞ্চে অগ্নিসংযোগ করে। পরদিন ৩১শে জানুয়ারি বৃহস্পতিবার সকাল থেকে শুরু হয় তাদের তাণ্ডব।ননী গোপাল দাসের বদলি আদেশ প্রত্যাহারের দাবিতে কলেজের প্রধান ফটক, প্রশাসনিক ভবন এবং ২১ বিভাগের প্রধান ফটকে তালা ঝুলিয়ে দেয় তারা। ফলে বন্ধ হয়ে গেছে কলেজের একাডেমিক কার্যক্রম। লাঠি, হকিস্টিক, ধারালো অস্ত্র নিয়ে প্রশাসনিক ভবনের সামনে অবস্থান নিয়েছে কর্মপরিষদের নেতাকর্মীরা।
____________________________________________________________Woman is 53 But Looks 25
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প্রিন্ট করুন | ShareThis | 4 মন্তব্য

কাজল ঘোষ: গত দশদিন বাংলাদেশে এক যুদ্ধ
চলছে। সাইবার যুদ্ধ। পক্ষ-বিপক্ষ মুখোমুখি। আর তা হচ্ছে সৃষ্টিশীল কায়দায়।
বুদ্ধিবৃত্তিক। মনস্তাত্ত্বিক। এতে অস্ত্রের ঝনঝনানি নেই। নেই কামানের
গোলা। নেই বর্শা-বল্লমও। এই যুদ্ধে সাঁড়াশি অভিযান চলছে ডিজিটাল ময়দানে।
একদিকে
প্রগতির বিপরীতে প্রতিক্রিয়াশীল। অন্যদিকে বামের উল্টোতে ডান।
বাংলাদেশ সংশ্লিষ্ট সকল কানেক্টিভিটি বা সামাজিক যোগাযোগের সাইটে চোখ
বুলালেই এ লড়াই দেখা যাচ্ছে। বিশ্বায়নের এ সময়ে বিশ্ব অর্থনৈতিক দিক দিয়েই
যুদ্ধে লিপ্ত। বলা হচ্ছে, ইকোনমি সুপার পাওয়ার বা অর্থনীতিতে শক্তিধর
রাষ্ট্রগুলোই নেতৃত্ব দিচ্ছে দুনিয়ার। কিন্তু সমাজ ও রাষ্ট্র নিয়ে যারা
ভাবেন তারা এখন নতুন গবেষণায় লিপ্ত। আর তা হলো এই ডিজিটাল যুদ্ধ। কোন সংবাদ
সম্মেলন, লিফলেট বিলি না করেও কিভাবে ব্লগ আর অনলাইন হতে পারে যুদ্ধের
হাতিয়ার শাহবাগ প্রতিবাদই তা বাতলে দিলো। খোদ যারা এই প্রতিবাদের প্রথম
লাইক দিয়ে ফেসবুকের ওয়ালে পোস্ট দিলেন তারাও ভাবেননি পরিস্থিতি এত দ্রুত
বদলাবে।
তরুণদের নিয়ে নানা নেতিবাচক কথা বলাবলি আছে। ফেসবুকে লাইক,
পড়াশোনা ফেলে চ্যাটিং আর ব্লগে লেখালেখি এইতো...। কিন্তু শাহবাগ স্কয়ারের
ঘটনা সবকিছুকে অতীত করেছে। তারুণ্যকে দিয়েছে নতুন অভিধা। বলা হচ্ছে, এটা
নতুন যুদ্ধ। এ যুদ্ধের নাম অপারেশন ২০১৩। বিয়াল্লিশ বছর আগে হাতিয়ার নিয়ে
মুক্তিসেনারা লড়েছে। ওপারে প্রশিক্ষণ নিয়েছে। কিন্তু এই প্রজন্মের তরুণরা
প্রশিক্ষণ নিয়েছে ল্যাপটপ আর কম্পিউটারে। ই-বুক, ই-মেইল, ফেসবুক, টুইটারে।
প্রতিবাদে, দ্রোহে ফুঁসে উঠছে তারা। এ মেসেজের কারিগরদের নামধাম অনেক সময়ই
ঠিক নেই। ছদ্মনামে লড়ছেন বেশির ভাগ। কিন্তু ঐক্য তাদের বক্তব্যে। একই আওয়াজ
তাদের প্রতিবাদের।
ডেটলাইন ৫ই ফেব্রুয়ারি। মঙ্গলবার। ফাগুনের রোদ তখনও
দেখা দেয়নি। অল্পক্ষণ আগে রায় হয়েছে কাদের মোল্লার। বিচারক যাবজ্জীবন
ঘোষণা করেছেন। অনলাইনে, ব্লগে একটি বার্তা ছড়িয়ে পড়লো। রায় মানি না।
ডিজিটাল ওয়ালে পোস্ট, ‘হয় মান না হয় প্রাণ, রাজাকারের ফাঁসি চাই, ফাঁসি
ছাড়া পথ নাই।’ তিন মাস আগে জাতীয় স্বার্থে এক হয়েছিল নিয়মিত ব্লগারদের একটি
অংশ। ব্লগার অ্যান্ড অনলাইন অ্যাক্টিভিস্ট নেটওয়ার্ক। প্রচলিত কোন সংগঠনের
ধাঁচে নয়। একেবারেই খাপছাড়া। ঢাল বলতে ব্লগিং। মেসেজ শেয়ার। লাইক দেয়া।
এভাবেই শুরু। গত দশদিন মিডিয়ার প্রধান শিরোনাম শাহবাগের উত্থান। গণজোয়ারের
নানা দিক। এর উচ্ছ্বাস ছড়িয়েছে সীমানার বাইরেও। শাহবাগে প্রজন্ম চত্বরের
পাশেই ব্লগ সেনারা দলবেঁধে বসে একের পর এক পোস্ট দিচ্ছে, বিপক্ষের গ্রুপকে
জবাব দিচ্ছে। শাহবাগ চত্বর থেকে দাবি তোলা হয়েছে বিভিন্ন সাইট বর্জনেরও।
যুদ্ধের
ময়দানে সোচ্ছার ব্লগের একটি সামহয়্যার ইন ব্লগ। শুরুতেই লেখা, আমরা
ব্লগার, শেষ রক্তবিন্দু পর্যন্ত যুদ্ধাপরাধীদের ফাঁসির জন্য লড়ে যাবো। এই
ব্লগেরই নোটিশ বোর্ডে লেখা, রাজাকারের ফাঁসির দাবিতে গর্জে উঠেছে বাংলাদেশ:
চল চল শাহবাগ চল। ঠিক তার পরেই আছে একটি ছবি। যাতে আন্দোলন স্থল শাহবাগে
আন্দোলনকারীরা নামাজ আদায় করছেন। ছবির নিচেই লেখা, এই জাগরণ বলে শুধু
নাস্তিকদের জায়গা? আজকের সন্ধ্যায় নামাজ পড়ছেন প্রতিবাদকারী মানুষজন। এটি
বিপরীত গ্রুপের প্রচারণার জবাব এটা সহজেই অনুমেয়। প্রথম আলো ব্লগের ওয়ালে
শুরুতেই লেখা শাহবাগ এখন বাংলাদেশের হৃদয়। আমাকে নতুন জন্ম দিয়েছে প্রজন্ম
চত্বর। তোমরা যারা শিবির করো, একটি ত্যানা ভার্সন। যে বাগানে ফুল চাষ করবে
কাদের মোল্লা। সেই গাছে কোন ফুল হবে না। এটাই বসন্তের দাবি। আমেরিকা
বানিয়েছে ফোর্ড কার, ভারত টাটা কার, কোরিয়া হুন্দাই, জাপান টয়োটা কার আর
পাকিস্তান বানিয়েছে রাজাকার। আন্দোলন চলছে জেলা উপজেলায়, দেশে ও পরবাসে,
অনলাইনে ও অফলাইনে, সীমানা চিনি না আছি শাহবাগে। এমন নানান বক্তব্য ব্লগে
ব্লগে। সাইবার যুদ্ধে শাহবাগ শিরোনামে প্রতি মুহূর্তেই নতুন নতুন মেসেজ
আপলোড করা হচ্ছে বিভিন্ন সাইটে।
ফেসবুকের প্রতিটি পাতা যেন স্থান করে
নিয়েছে শাহবাগ আন্দোলন। যেখানে জন্মদিন, আড্ডা আর দেশ-বিদেশের বন্ধুদের
নানা শুভেচ্ছা ও খোঁজখবরে ঠাসা থাকতো- সেখানে ডিজিটাল এলাকায় যদ্দূর চোখ
যায় কেবলই এ আন্দোলনের ছবি ও অনুভূতি। আকুতি আর আহ্বান।
ফেসবুকে কবি
সাংবাদিক লেখক শিক্ষকরাও আন্দোলন নিয়ে সরব ভূমিকায়। লেখক মইনুল আহসান সাবের
লিখেছেন, শাহবাগের তরুণদের কাছে বিএনপি দাবি পেশ করেছে। তরুণদের নাকি এই
দাবিতেও সোচ্চার হতে হবে। এমন একটা ঘটনা তরুণরা ঘটিয়ে ফেলবে, আওয়ামী
লীগ-বিএনপি কেউ বুঝতে পারেনি। কিন্তু লীগ বুদ্ধিমান। সঙ্গে সঙ্গে তারা
ক্যাশ করতে নেমে পড়েছে। আর বিএনপিতো বিএনপি। আবদারের দোকান খুলে বসেছে।
যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের
ইলিনয় ইউনিভার্সিটির প্রফেসর আলী রিয়াজ লিখেছেন, বাংলাদেশের যে
রাজনীতিবিদরা গত এক দেড় দশকে তরুণদের স্বপ্ন ধারণের মতো রাজনৈতিক কাঠামো
তৈরি করতে পারেননি তারা এখন এই সমাবেশে এসে নতুন কি বলতে পারেন? তাদের এই
বক্তব্য কি প্রতিদিন এই তরুণেরা শোনেননি? তাদের প্রতি সবিনয়ে অনুরোধ, দয়া
করে আপনারা এই আন্দোলনের পথে বাধা হবেন না। আপনাদের সমর্থনের জন্য
উপস্থিতির প্রয়োজন নেই, আপনারা চাইলে এর চেয়েও বেশি ভূমিকা রাখতে পারেন
আপনাদের নিজস্ব অবস্থান থেকে। এর চেয়ে বড় সমর্থন ও ইতিবাচক ভূমিকা আর কিছুই
হবে না।
সিনিয়র সাংবাদিক সানাউল্লাহ লাবলু লিখেছেন, গতকাল থেকে নাজিম
হিকমতের ‘জেলখানার চিঠি’ কবিতাটি আমাকে তাড়া করছে! প্রজন্ম চত্বরকে নিয়ে
এমন একটি কবিতা বা গান কবে হবে? কোথায় কবি? এ লিখেই তিনি তুলে দিয়েছেন
কবিতার লাইন।
সাইবার যোদ্ধারা পক্ষ-বিপক্ষ দল বেঁধে অনলাইন, ফেসবুক আর
ব্লগে প্রতি মুহূর্তের খবারখবর পোস্ট করছেন। ছবি ও ক্যারিকেচার দিয়ে নানা
বিদ্রূপ দৃশ্য পাঠানো হচ্ছে বিভিন্ন লিঙ্কে। এমন হাজারো ছবি, কার্টুন আর
ক্যারিকেচার থেকে নির্বাচিত কিছু অংশ পাঠকদের জন্য উল্লেখ করা হলো- শাহবাগ
আন্দোলনের পক্ষে লেখা হয়েছে, পবিত্র কোরানের অপমান করে শাহবাগের যোদ্ধাদের
ওপর দায় চাপানোর চেষ্টা চলছে। সচেতন থাকুন রুখে দিন। শাহবাগের অর্জন,
জামায়াতের ব্যবসা বর্জন লিখে জামায়াত সমর্থিত প্রতিষ্ঠানের নাম উল্লেখ করা
হয়েছে। বর্ণমালার আদ্যাক্ষরে যুদ্ধাপরাধীর ফাঁসির দাবিতে স্লোগান- ক তে
কাদের মোল্লা, তুই রাজাকার, তুই রাজাকার। ক তো কামারুজ্জামান, তুই রাজাকার,
তুই রাজাকার। কুকুরের গলায় প্ল্যাকার্ড ঝুলিয়ে দেয়া হয়েছে, জামায়াত-শিবির
রাজাকার, এই মুহূর্তে বাংলা ছাড়। শাহবাগ আন্দোলনের পক্ষে কথা বলে ভনিতা
বোঝাচ্ছে। বুঝবেন এরা রাজাকার। শহীদ জননী জাহানারা ইমামের ছবি দিয়ে লেখা
পোস্ট করা হয়েছে প্রজন্মের পক্ষে, তুমি শুরু করেছিলে, আমরা শেষ করবো।
প্রবাসীরা পোস্ট করেছেন প্ল্যাকার্ড দিয়ে, সিডনি থেকে শাহবাগ, এক দাবি এক
ডাক। বিএনপি-জামায়াত জোটের ছবি দিয়ে লেখা হয়েছে, রাজাকার পোষে যারা
স্বাধীনতার শত্রু তারা, জামায়াত-শিবির রাজাকার ধর্মের নামে ভণ্ডামি ছাড়।
সাঈদীর কার্র্টুন দিয়ে লেখা হয়েছে, দেল্লা রাজাকারের ফাঁসি আগে চাই।
অন্যদিকে
শাহবাগ আন্দোলনের বিরোধিতা করে লেখা হয়েছে, বিয়াই রাজাকারের ফাঁসির দাবিতে
আওয়ামী লীগের শাহবাগে আগমন। শাহবাগের আন্দোলনকারীরা সাবধান। শাহবাগের
আন্দোলনকারীরা হলো আওয়ামী লীগ+ছাত্রলীগ+বামদল প্রজন্ম। শহীদ নূর হোসেনের
ছবি দিয়ে জামায়াত সমর্থক একটি ব্লগে পোস্ট করা হয়েছে, ইসলাম ও ইসলামী
নেতৃবৃন্দের রক্ষায় লাখো নূর হোসেন প্রস্তুত। শাহবাগের দাবি প্রকৃত
যুদ্ধাপরাধীর ফাঁসি চাই। ইসলাম ধ্বংসের চক্রান্তের বিরুদ্ধে আলেম ওলামারা
মাঠে নামছে।
শাহবাগ নিয়ে ফেসবুকে ২০ পেইজ
স্লোগান-মিছিলের পাশাপাশি
শাহবাগের প্রজন্ম চত্বরকে নিয়ে অনলাইনে চলছে সাইবার যুদ্ধ। আন্দোলন জোরালো
করতে ফেসবুকের ২০টি পেজে ছবি, গান, স্লোগান, নানান কর্মসূচি জানিয়ে দেয়া
হচ্ছে। তরুণ প্রজন্মের সাইবার যোদ্ধাদের আহ্বান জানানো হয়েছে এগুলোতে লাইক
দিয়ে সরব থাকতে।
Blogger and Online Activist
Network-BOAN/www.facebook.com/boan.bd/ www.facebook.com/PrajanmoChattar/
www.facebook.com/massuprisebd2013/ www.facebook.com/ProjonmoChottor71/
www.facebook.com/Shahbagh32/ www.facebook.com/prajanmachattarpage/
www.facebook.com/shahbag13/ www.facebook.com/sahbagsquare/
www.facebook.com/ShahbagProtibad/ www.facebook.com/projonmo.cottor/
www.facebook.com/shahbag2013/ www.facebook.com/PrajanmaCatbara/
www.facebook.com/ProjonmoChottor2013/ www.facebook.com/chottor.projonmo/
www.facebook.com/ShahbaqSquare/ www.facebook.com/ShahbagSquare
Your question raises the further issue Shaheen, how can one reconcile one’s commitment to the rule of law, and one’s support of a movement that so openly and vehemently rejects it? If the Awami League government blesses the movement does it not mean that it is flouting the legal institutions and procedures it created to bring about justice? As you can see, I am a bit confused.
| pls take me out from the list --- On Thu, 14/2/13, Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com> wrote: |
| « আগের সংবাদ | পরের সংবাদ» |


| « আগের সংবাদ | পরের সংবাদ» |

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By Bhaskar Roy
| « আগের সংবাদ |

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=268923
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Mohammad sirajum Munir
২০১৩.০২.০৭ ১৩:৩২![]()
Nobel
২০১৩.০২.০৭ ১৪:৪৯AKTER MAMUN
২০১৩.০২.০৭ ১৫:২১Md. Fokhrul Alam
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নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক, বরিশাল
ফিরেছে বিস্ফোরণে তুমুল একাত্তর........হাসান মাহমুদ - ০৯ ফেব্রুয়ারী ২০১৩ওই শোনো ভৈরব গর্জন জনতার,প্রবল বন্যা-স্রোতে,আসে দশ দিক হতে,এ দারুণ সময়ে সে আহ্বান শোনো তার ।।"জয় বাংলা" !! ফিরে এলো ঝড়ো গতিতে,বিকৃত ইতিহাস ছুঁড়ে দিল অতিতে,সে মহামন্ত্রে কাঁপে প্রজন্ম চত্বরফিরেছে বিস্ফোরণে তুমুল একাত্তরতিরিশ লক্ষ লাল রেখা তুমি গোনো তার,ওই শোনো ভৈরব গর্জন জনতার !!নতজানু বিচারের রায় নয় সুবিচারধর্ষিতা নিহতের প্রতি ঘোর অবিচার।।চল্লিশ বছরের জঞ্জাল সরিয়ে,নষ্ট রাজনীতির ভিৎ দিল নড়িয়েএ ফেরার পথ ছিল দু:সহ,দুর্গমতাকে পায়ে দলে এলো প্রজন্ম দুর্দমজয় আছে,ভয়-লয়-ক্ষয় নেই কোনো তার,ওই শোনো ভৈরব গর্জন জনতার !!*********************************
| dear ahrar, i understand and respect your dilemma but cannot really help you out on this. i guess one has to sort it out on his own. on one hand you have the principled stand against capital punishment and on the other you are also convinced of the heinous crimes of the war criminals which you feel deserve the harshest punishment. i, however, have no such problem. as a matter of fact i am a little more blood thirsty. i would like to add the rapists, pedophiles also in the list of people deserving the capital punishment. sorry if i have disappointed you. sajjad H --- On Thu, 2/14/13, Ahmad, Ahrar <Ahrar...@bhsu.edu> wrote: |
From: "mahbu...@ieee.org ," <mahbub...@hotmail.com>
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; dark...@yahoo.com; l...@spryservices.com; sajjad.h...@yahoo.com; bark...@yahoo.com; cola...@yahoo.com; nac...@inbox.com; has...@msn.com; hasana...@yahoo.co.uk; kalac...@msn.com; mon...@asbbs.org; sh...@ccri.edu; est...@hotmail.com; sr.o...@ulster.ac.uk; cs...@yahoo.com; sahm...@gmail.com; kamal...@gmail.com; "mahbu...@ieee.org" <mahbu...@ieee.org>; ashra...@hotmail.com; ahrar...@bhsu.edu; min...@yahoo.com; pagur...@gmail.com; jhela...@yahoo.com; enamu...@yahoo.com; waseh...@yahoo.com; sahm...@hotmail.com; imran.a...@gmail.com; gowher...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: projonma chattar
Dear Farida Apa, I am addressing you as Apa, because Hashmi is addressing you as Apa, and I am assuming that you are senior to Hashmi, and as such you are senior to some of us. I have seen your various postings in other forums on-and-off during the last long two decades, and I am glad to see that you are now in this PFC-Friends group. I saw the following sentence in your posting below: Research has shown that death penalty does not deter crime.
Capital punishment is a dilema for me also, just like Ahrar, yourself, and others. However, we hear that capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, following the religious guidelines and procedures, has significant effect in reducing crimes there. Can you please comment on how your above statement stands in case of Saudi Arabia? Dear Hashmi, You have made a very nice analysis below on Religious and secular aspects of Bangladesh, Shahbag Square and its impact on current-and-future Judiciary systems of Bangladesh, etc. However, you have also made the following statement: the Holy Prophet ran not a theocracy but a secular state in Medina. This is a very heavy statement, and quite contrary to the general perception. It will be an interesting article to write on "Secularist Prophet Muhammad". Can you please make some additional comments to defend your authoritative statement? Dear Sajjad H, Thanks for sharing your experience of visiting the Projonma Chattar, which generated quite a followup discussion here in this forum, and about 20-30 postings by one single member of the group yesterday. Regards, Mahbub Khan California, USA 408-859-3566-cell mahbu...@ieee.org
From: taj_h...@hotmail.comTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; dark...@yahoo.com; l...@spryservices.com; sajjad.h...@yahoo.com; bark...@yahoo.com; cola...@yahoo.com; nac...@inbox.com; has...@msn.com; hasana...@yahoo.co.uk; kalac...@msn.com; mon...@asbbs.org; sh...@ccri.edu; est...@hotmail.com; sr.o...@ulster.ac.uk; cs...@yahoo.com; sahm...@gmail.com; kamal...@gmail.com; mahbu...@ieee.org; ashra...@hotmail.com; ahrar...@bhsu.edu; min...@yahoo.com; pagur...@gmail.com; jhela...@yahoo.com; enamu...@yahoo.com; waseh...@yahoo.com; sahm...@hotmail.com; imran.a...@gmail.com; gowher...@gmail.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarDate: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:27:44 -0500
Dear Sajjad/Ahrar/Farida Apa:Had I been in Dhaka I would have gone at the Shahbagh Square just to have first hand experience of what was going on. However, from my side, it's not all about death penalty. Since Bangladesh, among most Third World countries, has not prohibited death penalty for certain crimes (several US states have retained death penalty), it would be possibly too early to demand for its abolition, especially while millions of Bangladeshis are demanding that warcriminals be brought to the gallows. My points are about the short-term and far-reaching consequences of this rally, which is tantamount to influencing the judiciary by people having very little to no knowledge about law, judiciary and justice. Again, they don't have access to legal documents -- evidence, testimony of witnesses, defence counsellors' arguments -- etc. Last but not least, in the wake of the Skype Scandal (which revealed that Justice Nizamul Huq and Public Prosecutor Ziad al-Malum were together and another person (Dr Ziauddin) from Brussels was going to write the judgement on behalf of the said judge), I am not sure if other tribunals are functioning with full neutrality. There is still another problem -- one Hindu gentleman who came to testify in defence of Delwar Hussain Saidi, is said to have been abducted by the police. I saw her wife (in tears) telling this to the media. She asked for the return of her husband (in one piece -- not dead) and promised that he would never go to the Tribunal to give evidence in favour or against anybody.So, my two paisa is about how this rally has harmed our judiciary. Will any judge dare dispensing anything but death penalty for the rest of the prisoners charged with war crime. I don't know if all, some of none of the accused were involved in killing, raping, looting in 1971. By the way, I have no sympathy for the Jamaat and its leaders. I specially dislike Saidi, Mujahid and Nizami intensely. I consider the Jamaat (and its founder, Maududi) fascists. Nizami issued two fatwas against me, once in 1980 and then again in 2004/5 for my alleged anti-Islamic (actually anti-Jamaat) statements and public speech (made at Battala, DU, in August 1980). I got another fatwa from the late Mufti Fazlul Haq Amini in October 2008 (it came out in all leading dailies) for my interview with Prothom Alo, where I simply suggested that religion and politics are two different things, and the Holy Prophet ran not a theocracy but a secular state in Medina.Now, what will happen to our judiciary, is the question. Ain O Shalish Kendra's Advocate Sultana kamal and several jurists have already raised this question.By the way, proscribing the Jamaat and all Islamic parties would be counterproductive, especially when Islam is Bangladesh's Rashtro Dharma (State Religion) -- what a shame -- and Bangladeshi Muslims are "more Muslim" than any thing else (not even human being first). Imposing a ban would send Jamaat cadres underground to resort to terrorism, which Bangladesh cannot afford to face. It could lead to a civil war. Awami League should also realise that a proscribed Jamaat and Islamic parties would benefit the BNP (most).Take care!Taj Hashmi
From: farida...@hotmail.comTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarDate: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 05:25:27 -0500
I dealt with that dilemma. I've been an activist AGAINST death penalty and capital punishment in the USA. Someday I hope we can get rid of 'fanshi' here in Bangladesh. Research has shown that death penalty does not deter crime. You cannot 'kill' an idea with a hangman's noose or a gun shot. Remember, Khudiram's fanshi made him an inspiration, a martyr. Similarly, killing Osama bin Laden or other Al Quaida leaders have not deterred Jehadist terrorism in the world.
So, here, I decided to use the enthusiasm for demanding justice and an end to 420yr impunity, and deflect it to other issues such as Islami Banking -- an issue that could not have got a focused action without this 'hujug'. It gives me an opportunity to trike at other Jamaati lies about religion. My motto is to do a kind of satyagraha -- bring TRUTH to power.
Farida Majid
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 01:34:43 -0800From: sajjad.h...@yahoo.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
dear ahrar,
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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Tazooooooo:
I don’t usually follow these chats. However the sentence below in bold somehow caught my eye. I have a simple question: are you just being provocative or you have at least some rationalistic evidence or explanation of stating that the Holy Prophet (PBH) “ran a secular state.”
Well, I hope you find a few takers of your statement, Tazoooooooooo. I am definitely not one of them.
When my book, The Islamic Challenge and the Great Powers, comes out you will read where I stand on the issue in the last chapter. In fact, I am having a dialogue for the past several weeks with a retired Turkish colonel, who was the former Director of that country’s “Center of Excellence/Defense against terrorism (COEDAT).
R,
Ehsan
No Tazoooooooooooo! On these matters, one cannot be dismissive by stating pasand apni….etc. I don’t know your or Bangladeshi version of the meaning of the “s” world, but here is one from Encylopedia Britannica:
“secularism, any movement in society directed away from otherworldliness to life on earth. In the European Middle Ages there was a strong tendency for religious persons to despise human affairs and to meditate on God and the afterlife. As a reaction to this medieval tendency, secularism, at the time of the Renaissance, exhibited itself in the development of humanism, when people began to show more interest in human cultural achievements and the possibilities of their fulfillment in this world. The movement toward secularism has been in progress during the entire course of modern history and has often been viewed as ...”
If you accept it, then your position on secularism is not at all valid!
Ok, enough of the tomfoolery, I need to get serious about some work, Tazooooooooo.

What are you talking about? How is movement toward otherworldliness is compatible to Islam?
Yes, please, I would like to see the definition you referred to in your note.
Tazooooo, I think your friend Mahbub was very kind to you regarding your views mentioned on this issue to him. I will not respond to your note on the circumstances under which the Prophet of Islam would stop being RA. I would only ask you to read, read, read, and think, think, and think on the subject. It is much too complex and heavy, and cannot be dismissed by Pollyannaish slogan: eat, drink, etc.
“secularism, any movement in society directed away from otherworldliness to life on earth. In the European Middle Ages there was a strong tendency for religious persons to despise human affairs and to meditate on God and the afterlife. As a reaction to this medieval tendency, secularism, at the time of the Renaissance, exhibited itself in the development of humanism, when people began to show more interest in human cultural achievements and the possibilities of their fulfillment in this world. The movement toward secularism has been in progress during the entire course of modern history and has often been viewed as ..
If I may be so bold as to respond to Hasan bhai’s query regarding the efficacy of capital punishment as a deterrent to crime. I do not mean to preempt Farida Apa, I am sure she will respond on her own.
Hasan bhai, while the Saudi case is indeed true, it is also a bit of an anomaly. The relationship between beheadings and lower violent crime is probably spurious (after all it is one of the richest countries in the world, it has a firm and intrusive system of police and intelligence, the monarchy has been able to “buy off” the loyalty of the subjects in terms of maintaining stability, it has engaged in very ambitious plans for economic modernization, it is home to Islam’s holiest sites which carries some moral influence, and so on). It may be better to test the hypothesis in the context of the industrialized, prosperous, democratic countries of the world (i.e., comparing apples to apples). The US is the ONLY country in that group to allow capital punishment, yet it has the HIGHEST rate of homicide among all of them. We can also look at the States in the US that allow capital punishment and the 13 that do not. Homicide in the latter is significantly lower than the former. For example, Texas is the execution capital of the US, but violent crime is much higher there than in Wisconsin which does not have the death penalty.
Apart from the statistical argument there are also some moral issues – how can we say that killing someone is wrong, and then kill someone to make the point? How can we be sure of the guilt of the person being convicted (in Illinois, Gov. Ryan stopped all executions after there was irrefutable proof that almost half the people in death row could not possibly have committed the crimes for which they had been convicted)? How can we guard against this being disproportionately used against the poor, minorities, and the more vulnerable (again, the evidence in this regard is fairly compelling)?
I am fully aware that some of these conditions do not apply to the situation in BD. I am also absolutely convinced that many of those accused of crimes against humanity are brutal and remorseless criminals. If I had met any of them while I had a gun on my shoulders during the war, (even up to March of 1972 when I surrendered my weapons), I would have had no hesitations in wiping out this entire shabby bunch. BUT, I could not do it today, because as a matter of principle I have embraced a position that is opposed to capital punishment. And, since to me it is a commitment based on principle, I cannot pick and choose in terms of the crime, the criminal or the context.
Sajjad bhai, you are not blood-thirsty (you are one of the sweetest people I have known), nor are the people assembled in Shahbagh immoral, uncivilized or necessarily wrong. I feel inspired by their spontaneity, their creativity, their dedication. I just do not agree with this demand.
I am VERY sorry for this long post. And, if I have offended anybody, please forgive me (and please do not leave the group on account of my rambling).
Ahrar
From: Hasan Mahmud [mailto:ha...@HasanMahmud.com]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 11:46 AM
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com;
dark...@yahoo.com;
l...@spryservices.com; sajjad.h...@yahoo.com;
bark...@yahoo.com;
cola...@yahoo.com; nac...@inbox.com;
has...@msn.com;
hasana...@yahoo.co.uk; kalac...@msn.com;
mon...@asbbs.org;
sh...@ccri.edu; est...@hotmail.com;
sr.o...@ulster.ac.uk; cs...@yahoo.com;
sahm...@gmail.com;
kamal...@gmail.com; mahbu...@ieee.org;
ashra...@hotmail.com; Ahmad, Ahrar;
min...@yahoo.com;
pagur...@gmail.com; jhela...@yahoo.com;
enamu...@yahoo.com;
waseh...@yahoo.com; sahm...@hotmail.com;
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Subject: জনসমক্ষে
শিরচ্ছেদের
শারিয়া
আইন :
পক্ষে-বিপক্ষে
- - - -
জনসমক্ষে শিরচ্ছেদের শারিয়া আইন : পক্ষে-বিপক্ষে
Hasan Mahmud.
From: "mahbu...@ieee.org ," <mahbub...@hotmail.com>
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; dark...@yahoo.com; l...@spryservices.com; sajjad.h...@yahoo.com; bark...@yahoo.com; cola...@yahoo.com; nac...@inbox.com; has...@msn.com; hasana...@yahoo.co.uk; kalac...@msn.com; mon...@asbbs.org; sh...@ccri.edu; est...@hotmail.com; sr.o...@ulster.ac.uk; cs...@yahoo.com; sahm...@gmail.com; kamal...@gmail.com; "mahbu...@ieee.org" <mahbu...@ieee.org>; ashra...@hotmail.com; ahrar...@bhsu.edu; min...@yahoo.com; pagur...@gmail.com; jhela...@yahoo.com; enamu...@yahoo.com; waseh...@yahoo.com; sahm...@hotmail.com; imran.a...@gmail.com; gowher...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: projonma chattar
Dear Farida Apa, I am addressing you as Apa, because Hashmi is addressing you as Apa, and I am assuming that you are senior to Hashmi, and as such you are senior to some of us. I have seen your various postings in other forums on-and-off during the last long two decades, and I am glad to see that you are now in this PFC-Friends group. I saw the following sentence in your posting below: Research has shown that death penalty does not deter crime.
Capital punishment is a dilema for me also, just like Ahrar, yourself, and others. However, we hear that capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, following the religious guidelines and procedures, has significant effect in reducing crimes there. Can you please comment on how your above statement stands in case of Saudi Arabia? Dear Hashmi, You have made a very nice analysis below on Religious and secular aspects of Bangladesh, Shahbag Square and its impact on current-and-future Judiciary systems of Bangladesh, etc. However, you have also made the following statement: the Holy Prophet ran not a theocracy but a secular state in Medina. This is a very heavy statement, and quite contrary to the general perception. It will be an interesting article to write on "Secularist Prophet Muhammad". Can you please make some additional comments to defend your authoritative statement? Dear Sajjad H, Thanks for sharing your experience of visiting the Projonma Chattar, which generated quite a followup discussion here in this forum, and about 20-30 postings by one single member of the group yesterday. Regards, Mahbub Khan California, USA 408-859-3566-cell mahbu...@ieee.org
From: taj_h...@hotmail.comTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; dark...@yahoo.com; l...@spryservices.com; sajjad.h...@yahoo.com; bark...@yahoo.com; cola...@yahoo.com; nac...@inbox.com; has...@msn.com; hasana...@yahoo.co.uk; kalac...@msn.com; mon...@asbbs.org; sh...@ccri.edu; est...@hotmail.com; sr.o...@ulster.ac.uk; cs...@yahoo.com; sahm...@gmail.com; kamal...@gmail.com; mahbu...@ieee.org; ashra...@hotmail.com; ahrar...@bhsu.edu; min...@yahoo.com; pagur...@gmail.com; jhela...@yahoo.com; enamu...@yahoo.com; waseh...@yahoo.com; sahm...@hotmail.com; imran.a...@gmail.com; gowher...@gmail.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarDate: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:27:44 -0500
Dear Sajjad/Ahrar/Farida Apa:
Had I been in Dhaka I would have gone at the Shahbagh Square just to have first hand experience of what was going on. However, from my side, it's not all about death penalty. Since Bangladesh, among most Third World countries, has not prohibited death penalty for certain crimes (several US states have retained death penalty), it would be possibly too early to demand for its abolition, especially while millions of Bangladeshis are demanding that warcriminals be brought to the gallows. My points are about the short-term and far-reaching consequences of this rally, which is tantamount to influencing the judiciary by people having very little to no knowledge about law, judiciary and justice. Again, they don't have access to legal documents -- evidence, testimony of witnesses, defence counsellors' arguments -- etc. Last but not least, in the wake of the Skype Scandal (which revealed that Justice Nizamul Huq and Public Prosecutor Ziad al-Malum were together and another person (Dr Ziauddin) from Brussels was going to write the judgement on behalf of the said judge), I am not sure if other tribunals are functioning with full neutrality. There is still another problem -- one Hindu gentleman who came to testify in defence of Delwar Hussain Saidi, is said to have been abducted by the police. I saw her wife (in tears) telling this to the media. She asked for the return of her husband (in one piece -- not dead) and promised that he would never go to the Tribunal to give evidence in favour or against anybody.
So, my two paisa is about how this rally has harmed our judiciary. Will any judge dare dispensing anything but death penalty for the rest of the prisoners charged with war crime. I don't know if all, some of none of the accused were involved in killing, raping, looting in 1971. By the way, I have no sympathy for the Jamaat and its leaders. I specially dislike Saidi, Mujahid and Nizami intensely. I consider the Jamaat (and its founder, Maududi) fascists. Nizami issued two fatwas against me, once in 1980 and then again in 2004/5 for my alleged anti-Islamic (actually anti-Jamaat) statements and public speech (made at Battala, DU, in August 1980). I got another fatwa from the late Mufti Fazlul Haq Amini in October 2008 (it came out in all leading dailies) for my interview with Prothom Alo, where I simply suggested that religion and politics are two different things, and the Holy Prophet ran not a theocracy but a secular state in Medina.
Now, what will happen to our judiciary, is the question. Ain O Shalish Kendra's Advocate Sultana kamal and several jurists have already raised this question.
By the way, proscribing the Jamaat and all Islamic parties would be counterproductive, especially when Islam is Bangladesh's Rashtro Dharma (State Religion) -- what a shame -- and Bangladeshi Muslims are "more Muslim" than any thing else (not even human being first). Imposing a ban would send Jamaat cadres underground to resort to terrorism, which Bangladesh cannot afford to face. It could lead to a civil war. Awami League should also realise that a proscribed Jamaat and Islamic parties would benefit the BNP (most).
Take care!
Taj Hashmi
From: farida...@hotmail.comTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarDate: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 05:25:27 -0500
I dealt with that dilemma. I've been an activist AGAINST death penalty and capital punishment in the USA. Someday I hope we can get rid of 'fanshi' here in Bangladesh. Research has shown that death penalty does not deter crime. You cannot 'kill' an idea with a hangman's noose or a gun shot. Remember, Khudiram's fanshi made him an inspiration, a martyr. Similarly, killing Osama bin Laden or other Al Quaida leaders have not deterred Jehadist terrorism in the world.
So, here, I decided to use the enthusiasm for demanding justice and an end to 420yr impunity, and deflect it to other issues such as Islami Banking -- an issue that could not have got a focused action without this 'hujug'. It gives me an opportunity to trike at other Jamaati lies about religion. My motto is to do a kind of satyagraha -- bring TRUTH to power.
Farida Majid
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 01:34:43 -0800From: sajjad.h...@yahoo.comSubject: RE: projonma chattarTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
dear ahrar,
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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| Central & South Asia |
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Bangladesh war crimes protest turn deadly |
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At least four people are killed as opposition activists clash with police during protests over a war crimes trial.
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ছাত্রলীগের হামলায় আহত অগ্নিকন্যা লাকি...
আন্দোলনের অগ্নিকন্যাখ্যাত লাকির ওপর হামলা চালানো হয়েছে। জানা যায়, লাকির আপোষহীন স্লোগান আর কথাই এ হামলার মূল কারণ। রাতে আন্দোলনে সংহতি জানাতে এসে আওয়ামী লীগের উপদেষ্টা মণ্ডলি সদস্য তোফায়েল আহমেদ ও জাসদের কারযকরি সদস্য মাঈনুদ্দিন খান বাদলের বক্তব্যে বাধা দেন লাকি। কোন রাজনৈতিক বক্তব্য এখানে চলবে না, মাইকে এমন ঘোষণা দিতেই পেছন থেকে তার মাথায় ভারী বস্তু আঘাত করা হয়। তাৎক্ষণিক অসুস্থ লাকি আহত হয়ে মাটিতে পড়ে যান। গুরুতর অবস্থায় তাকে চিকিৎসার জন্য বারডেমের জরুরি বিভাগে নিয়ে যাওয়া হয়।
সুত্র- বাংলামেইল।

| dear ahrar, |
The comments below will follow the line of arguments made by a village elder who told two villagers (in the absence of each other) who were fighting over some totally opposing viewpoints, and also his wife who protested his judgment that they were all absolutely right. I will refrain from using the word “absolute” because that word is devoid of any realistic use.
To address Siddiq’s question, one could point out Hashmi’s comment that the Prophet ran the state with the Quranic principles which actually gives credence to the statement that the STATE was NOT a secular one. I agree with Hashmi that the Prophet and the Khalifas did run the state on the same principles of religion but it also raise the predicament of calling it secular.
If you look into the source and development of the concept of secularism emanating from ideas and concepts from Renaissance, Reformation, Humanism and Enlightenment in Europe there is little room to disagree with the statement or rather the quotation by Dr. Ehrari. I did study some of topics stated above and I was asked to teach some of it at DU after the independence of BD. That, of course, does not make me an authority on this subject but I may point out that the accepted view or definition of secularism precludes any religious guidance in governing a state.
One might argue that the modern concept of secularism should not be applied to the time of the Prophet or one might opt for a different definition of secularism but, I’m afraid that would be a novation in the political/intellectual parlance.
Ahrar Ahmad and Shah Jahan may be able to add some more substance to this discussion with some authority. In my discussions with Shah Jahan last December I found him very knowledgeable on a wide range of subjects and Ahrar Ahmad always writes very well on political/historical topics with some research data.
This subject is quite sensitive and I would request to keep the discussion on an intellectual level and not take it personally. Also, I read only four emails and I apologize to others who may have already contributed valuable insights on the subject I have not noticed.
Take care.
Matin
As you folks are busy defining the term—and I only did it the other day because Tazoooooo was so imprecise about it that I wanted to paraphrase an old adage: if secularism is everything, then it is nothing!!!—I wish to point out that secularism in reality is aimed at constraining the government about any religion and religious matters. Perhaps that is the Euro-American explanation regarding the essence of it. The fear was that by showing any favor to any religion or religious services, it might wrongly creating an impression of favoring it.
As to the issue of whether the Holy Prophet (PBH) headed a secular state, I have never read such a claim, and I am fully aware of the modalities of the treaty of Hudaibiyya, and even the reaction of the Rashidun about it.
I am sorry, but I could not resist adding a bit of intensity to your already interesting debate!!!
No, Shamim, the description that I provided below insists on a strictly neutral role for the government. That also means—and this is an important point—that a person has a perfect right not to believe in any religion. That’s what makes the notion of secularism such an interesting concept in the West (or more precisely in the US, since I know nothing about Canada), especially on the public display of nativity.
Notwithstanding that comment about the Prophet (PBH) heading a secular state, my lament still remains very much unanswered. I want to see it (that claimed) developed into a scholarly article, with adequate footnotes, which could be analyzed and assessed by Islamic scholars residing in the West.
This is a major issue, and cannot be adequately discussed in a stream of claims and counterclaims (including my own) on a forum like ours. If you read Ziauddin Sardar, his assertions are along the same lines, except that he spends a lot of his time in attempting to secularize the notion of the Shariah.
I don’t enough knowledge on the subject to refute his arguments. (BTW, and as an aside, I am currently reading Khashaf al-Mahjub, which is considered a seminal work on the modalities of tasawwuf). My specialty is heavily focused on Islam as a political force, which has sustained its challenge of the great powers of the colonial area and, more to the point, which continues to challenge the lone superpower, China, and Russia.
As a young graduate student, I read a lot of work by Binder, Fazlur rahman, David Apter, Ernest Gellerner and a lot others on the subject, on the vagaries of modernization and how it has exacerbated the conflict related to secularism. However, I remain persuaded that on this issue, there remains a powerful and a yawning chasm, not only about what it is, but more significantly, whether a Muslim polity can function effectively as a secular one.
People jump to their feet and give the example of the country of Turkey—which they invariably do during my lectures on civil and military fora in the US, ME, South Asia, and even in Indonesia—to refute me. My immediate question to them is that, if that is true, then please try distributing copies of the Holy Bible in any major cities (the emphasis here is on urban and supposedly forward-thinking areas) of that country and see how long you will remain free. A former colleague of mine, a retired Major General of the USAF, used to tell horrible stories about how many young American airmen were thrown in jail in Turkey just for doing that.
A retired colonel of the Turkish Army, who is also a dear friend, informed me only today that the Turkish airline has not only banned the service of alcohol during the domestic flights, but is plans to do the same during the international flights. On the contrary, the Qatar airline and the Emirate airline serve alcohol, but neither of them claim to be originating from a so-called secular state.
Bottom line: the issue of secularism remains as one of the major schisms (a la the Sunni-Shia schism) of the Muslim Ummah. It has to be resolved through constant debates, but such debates should also involve public officials. This is an important precondition. That is one reason why I am watching the developments in Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, and—most significantly—Egypt with rapt attention.
As I stated in my last note to our friend, Shamim, I will await someone—especially Tazoooooo—to systematically develop this argument in an essay. Even if I were to remain unconvinced (which is not really important), it will be read with a lot of interest, especially by those of us who are desperately coming to grip with the answer to the question: what went wrong.
This question has been bothering me for a long time. In fact, I sat down and wrote an essay, The Muslim Despair and the End of History, right after reading Fukuyama’s crappy argument about the victory of liberal democracy meant that history has no more fronts to conquer (I am only paraphrasing him). I never attempted to have it published. However, that issue might become the topic of my major writing project in the future.
If I may be so bold as to respond to Hasan bhai’s query regarding the efficacy of capital punishment as a deterrent to crime. I do not mean to preempt Farida Apa, I am sure she will respond on her own.
Hasan bhai, while the Saudi case is indeed true, it is also a bit of an anomaly. The relationship between beheadings and lower violent crime is probably spurious (after all it is one of the richest countries in the world, it has a firm and intrusive system of police and intelligence, the monarchy has been able to “buy off” the loyalty of the subjects in terms of maintaining stability, it has engaged in very ambitious plans for economic modernization, it is home to Islam’s holiest sites which carries some moral influence, and so on). It may be better to test the hypothesis in the context of the industrialized, prosperous, democratic countries of the world (i.e., comparing apples to apples). The US is the ONLY country in that group to allow capital punishment, yet it has the HIGHEST rate of homicide among all of them. We can also look at the States in the US that allow capital punishment and the 13 that do not. Homicide in the latter is significantly lower than the former. For example, Texas is the execution capital of the US, but violent crime is much higher there than in Wisconsin which does not have the death penalty.
Apart from the statistical argument there are also some moral issues – how can we say that killing someone is wrong, and then kill someone to make the point? How can we be sure of the guilt of the person being convicted (in Illinois, Gov. Ryan stopped all executions after there was irrefutable proof that almost half the people in death row could not possibly have committed the crimes for which they had been convicted)? How can we guard against this being disproportionately used against the poor, minorities, and the more vulnerable (again, the evidence in this regard is fairly compelling)?
I am fully aware that some of these conditions do not apply to the situation in BD. I am also absolutely convinced that many of those accused of crimes against humanity are brutal and remorseless criminals. If I had met any of them while I had a gun on my shoulders during the war, (even up to March of 1972 when I surrendered my weapons), I would have had no hesitations in wiping out this entire shabby bunch. BUT, I could not do it today, because as a matter of principle I have embraced a position that is opposed to capital punishment. And, since to me it is a commitment based on principle, I cannot pick and choose in terms of the crime, the criminal or the context.
Sajjad bhai, you are not blood-thirsty (you are one of the sweetest people I have known), nor are the people assembled in Shahbagh immoral, uncivilized or necessarily wrong. I feel inspired by their spontaneity, their creativity, their dedication. I just do not agree with this demand.
I am VERY sorry for this long post. And, if I have offended anybody, please forgive me (and please do not leave the group on account of my rambling).
Ahrar
From: Hasan Mahmud [mailto:ha...@HasanMahmud.com]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 11:46 AM
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Subject: জনসমক্ষে শিরচ্ছেদের শারিয়া আইন : পক্ষে-বিপক্ষে - - - -
জনসমক্ষে শিরচ্ছেদের শারিয়া আইন : পক্ষে-বিপক্ষে
Why do you sound surprised?
Any idea that claims to be provocative needs to be developed so that others may review it and make up their own mind. Otherwise, to state that the Prophet of Islam (SAW) headed a secular state remains nothing but a bizarre statement.
Cheers,