জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

[Raza Mia]

ভিডিও >> জুমআর খুতবা নিয়ে কথা বললেন শ্যামল দত্ত

জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা।জুমার খুতবায় নাকি ভয়ংকর কথা বলা হয়।তিনি আরো বলেন জুমার খুতবা সরকারি ভাবে ঠিক করে দেওয়া উচিৎ।

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvolWgpQUpU

[fatima ashrafi]

The Shymal Dutta's should be stopped from talking rubbish. Mutual respect of religious sentiments is essential.

 

Dr Fatima Ashrafi 

---

From: 'Raza Mia' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2015, 1:05
Subject: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

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[Ali Shaheen]

Not a good idea to interfere with free speech - that is what leads people to kill bloggers and cartoonists.  It is much wiser to ignore trash or provide counter arguments.  There are bigots in every faith and culture including our own.

Sent from my iPhone

[Farida Majid]

You have not heard the kind of khutbas Shyamal Dutta is talking about, 

Dr Fatima Ashrafi  , because, if you did, you would cringe with shame as a Muslima.  

The viciousness of the misogynist lies in the name of Allah should surely cause

some sense of resentment in you about the ignorance of the molla!  

Then there are outright falsehoods spoken as if they come straight from the Qur'an.

No one is literate enough in Arabic to catch the hoax.

Many of the falsely concocted Hadith and Qur'an deal with spreading communal hatred.

We have launched a campaign to urge respected and highly educated Moulanas 

to come forward and take an active role in preventing this sinful act

of spreading communal hatred and misogyny among the faithful through khutbas.

We are getting some positive responses.

---

From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'fatima ashrafi' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 11:18 AM
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

 

The Shymal Dutta's should be stopped from talking rubbish. Mutual respect of religious sentiments is essential.

 

Dr Fatima Ashrafi 

---

From: 'Raza Mia' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2015, 1:05
Subject: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

ভিডিও >> জুমআর খুতবা নিয়ে কথা বললেন শ্যামল দত্ত

জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা।জুমার খুতবায় নাকি ভয়ংকর কথা বলা হয়।তিনি আরো বলেন জুমার খুতবা সরকারি ভাবে ঠিক করে দেওয়া উচিৎ।

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvolWgpQUpU

জুমআর খুতবা নিয়ে ভয়ঙ্কর কথা বললেন শ্যামল দত্ত - YouTube www.youtube.com

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[Razzak Syed]

Personnel like Samol Dutta are biggest terrorist. They purposely heats the people's emotional n religious feelings to divide the people and implants hatraits.

Miscreants takes advantage of it.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed

Sent from my iPhone 

[Abid Bahar]

IS THE FUNDAMENTALIST SHAMOL MITRO PLAYING WITH FIRE?

According to the recently lost and now found Joy Bangla cheer leader Farida Majid, Shamol Mitra is knowledgeable enough in Arabic to say how dangerous khutbah messages are in rural Bangladesh to the Awami BKSALI progressive path toward building a healthy secular society. 

I wonder,  if  he is so anti Bangladeshi, why doesn't he join the BJP in India close to his home to kill Muslims eating beef?

 We know Shamol Mitro is a RAW Calcutta traveler. If he hates Islam so much and recommends to keep the  Islamic khutbah messages in check in rural Bangladesh, to most Bangladeshis, it means the enemy is close to chocking us to death. 

[rashed Anam]

We all know that These were the BAKALI anti-Islamic minds like that of Shamal Dutta and most of AwamiLeaguers who DECLARED the  Islam-attacking, Allah-Rasul-Koran-Galagali-kari  bloggers like Rajeeb as  liberation war martyrs.  People who declares and supports Islam-attacking, Islam-denigrating bloggers as national martyrs are expected to keep the campaign against Islam. 

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Farida Majid <farida...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Rezaul Karim]

This is not exercising free speech. This is deliberate incitement by RAW and supported by the Islamophobes to enrage the Godfearing people. The enemies of Islam are dying to discredit ISLAM & MUSLIMS in whatever way they. But Allah help those who seek help from him only.

[javed helali]

Mitro???? 

JH 512-669-5248

---

From: Rezaul Karim <rezaulk...@gmail.com>
To: Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com>
Cc: Zoglul Husain <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>; Ranu Chowdhury <ran...@hotmail.com>; notun Bangladesh <notun_ba...@yahoogroups.com>; "la-dis...@googlegroups.com" <la-dis...@googlegroups.com>; Zainul Abedin <ZAIN...@yahoo.com>; "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>; Jalal Khan <juk...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 5:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvolWgpQUpU

http://www.youtube.com/

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[Ali Shaheen]

Is this exercising free speech?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwizrZuVppHKAhWI2B4KHVkXCmwQFggaMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newstoday.com.bd%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Ddetails%26news_id%3D2357165%26date%3D2013-09-22&usg=AFQjCNF7ZtWKoH4eRaOQWsdtk-q406hAcg&sig2=5EbOifgS1II3sR9225w6Rg

Sent from my iPhone

[Ali Shaheen]

And here is a more scholarly work by someone who is a member of PFC

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwizrZuVppHKAhWI2B4KHVkXCmwQFggKMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmukto-mona.com%2FArticles%2Ftaj_hashmi%2FPopular_Islam_and_Misogyn1.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFVqh1IeFgZkfssOdCXB8-Z4JUe5A&sig2=qHdt8wJUFXPmLvUrrSoxzg

Sent from my iPhone

[Abid Bahar]

‎Apu Akond‎ to Story of Awami League

“লন্ডন ফেরত বেগম সাহেব দিলটা তবু পাকি
মুক্তিযুদ্ধ হয়নি আদৌ বলতে কেবল বাকি।
পাকি প্রেমে বিভোর হয়ে বলছে পাকি বুলি
‘পেয়ার কিয়া তো ডরনা কিয়া’ ধরছে গানের কলি।”

খালেদা জিয়াকে নিয়ে মন্ত্রিসভায় ব্যঙ্গাত্মক কবিতা

মন্ত্রিসভার নিয়মিত বৈঠকে আজ বিএনপির চেয়ারপারসন খালেদা জিয়াকে নিয়ে নিজের লেখা ব্যঙ্গাত্মক কবিতা পড়ে শুনিয়েছেন বিজ্ঞান ও প্রযুক্তিমন্ত্রী ইয়াফেস ওসমান। আবৃত্তি শেষে অন্য…

amarbangladesh-online.com

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Farida Majid <farida...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mitro???? 

JH 512-669-5248

 

That's just a flicker of 'garamya politics', the extent of their mischief-making sick mind, Javed Helali.  "Village politics" here does not refer to any real village, but to a dangerously limited mental sphere, deliberately kept in the dark for the purpose manipulation.

* * * * *

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost
A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global anti-extremism campaign.

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost www.huffingtonpost.com World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global anti-extremism campaign.

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost

A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global…

huffingtonpost.com|By Krithika Varagur

 

---

From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'javed helali' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:16 AM
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; Abid Bahar
Cc: Zoglul Husain; Ranu Chowdhury; notun Bangladesh; la-dis...@googlegroups.com; Zainul Abedin; Jalal Khan

[Abid Bahar]

ISLAM IS THE ONLY OBSTACLE FOR INDIA TO CONTROL/ COLONIZE BANGLADESH

Shamol Babu is not a Muslim asking for a reform from within. Surely, Shamol Mitro's shameless criticism of Islam in rural Bengal is to promote Indian agenda in Bangladesh.

 If Shamol Mitro is so worried about Islamic influence in rural Bengal, it got to be his Indian dada's and Hasina's concern to interiorize Muslim and Islam in Bangladesh. It is because Islam serves as the greatest obstacle for India to control Bangladesh.

Remember after Mujib's return from Pakistan, he was motivated to accept the four principles, not justice, fairness and democracy for which he fought against Pakistan. One of the four Indian pillars was the so-called secularism" of Indra which in effect was to fight against Islam. This is Mujib/ Hasina's Dharmo hinota not the true secularism of Dhormo nirophikhota.

 What we are worried about Shamol Mitro's assertion is the degree of the RAW hand extended even up to our very rural Bengal. We must remember, there were not too many betrayers needed for the East India company to win Bengal then India, it was only one Mirjafor. Now in Bangladesh only Hasina as if like the Ghosheti Begum is betraying with Bangladeshi people. Hasina didn't know Ghati Begum drowned right here in the Buriganga River.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:38 PM, zainul abedin <zain...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Salam,

I did not want to participate in this discussion. But now, there are a few points I like to mention.

1. I like to request all not to go vulgar, please.

2. I am delighted that our sister, Ms Farida, got to understand the matter of "vulgarism" for which some of us sometimes drew her attention about the terms and phrases she used in the past which  tantamount vulgar.

3. Our "Imams" virtually overstate some issues and or understate or do not touch at all some issues which are very important involving our day to day life by politics, economics, even foreign policy etc. (government policies). All Prophets, especially, Rasulullah (SM) did that to keep the followers (Muslims) informed for immediate and future actions. That was hijacked by the dynasties started from Umayya and continued to these days' so-called modernists/secular. So, what Imams are left with? That's the "Hurs," "Murs" etc. If Imams talk about transparency of our society, they will be termed "FUNDAMENTALISTS!"

4. Imams also do not understand timing of talking, mostly because "Khutbas' are framed by the dictation of all the tyrant/secular rulers of all times after 30 years of "Khulafa-e Rashedin."

5. In Iran, almost all issues of  day to day life including foreign policies are generally discussed in the Friday Congregations for making an informed citizenry.

6. Those who view that our "Deen (Islam) has been hijacked by some radicals, and misinterpreted, I agree with that a little bit. Why has that been happening? It's because we deviated ourselves from the real exercise of Islam. If exercise of real Islam (by Quran and Hadis, and also proper Ijma, Qias) has been allowed, some issues what we think "radical" would not seem like that, because that is the reality. Virtually, Islam has been slowly hijacked/misinterpreted by some so-called Imam who followed the dictations of the tyrant rulers.

7. Please see that, all Imams from Abu Hanifa (RA) to Ibne Taimia were either tortured or killed by the tyrant (so-called) Muslim rulers.

8. So, we need to take back our Islam/Deen (its not the way people of other faiths understand religions) followed by all Prophets of all the times. That is the Direction of Allah/God. Allah rebuked the humans: Would you follow some parts of Deen, and disobey other parts (means partially).

9. Those who talk about so-called "free speech" try to understand no freedom is allowed that touches other's nose. There are restrictions, responsibility, and balance in exercising freedom.

10. Yes, there are differences of opinions we need to honor, but excesses of things need to be protested, no doubt.

11. I am worried about Mr. Samal Datta. Has he become a proponent of real Islam, or the agent of attackers of Islam (the first position maybe not)? He should understand being just an agent of the present BD government, is not journalism!

Best regards,

Zainul Abedin


--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 1/5/16, Farida Majid <farida...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

 To: "Abid Bahar" <abid....@gmail.com>, "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
 Cc: "Zoglul Husain" <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>, "Ranu Chowdhury" <ran...@hotmail.com>, "notun Bangladesh" <notun_ba...@yahoogroups.com>, "la-dis...@googlegroups.com" <la-dis...@googlegroups.com>, "Zainul Abedin" <ZAIN...@yahoo.com>, "Jalal Khan" <juk...@gmail.com>, "mukto...@yahoogroups.com" <mukto...@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2016, 3:18 PM

 #yiv1181790646 #yiv1181790646 -- P
 {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv1181790646


 That just goes on to show that these evil propandists
 have no taste or any liking for TRUTH.


 Vulgarity is a staple element in any communication Abd
 Bahar has with anyone who asks for logic, adherence to some
 historical fact, and ethics. 






 <<  In gross
 distortion of true Islamic teaching, half educated mullahs
 in our society rampantly carries out their vile campaign in
 subjugating and maligning our women folk, often misquoting
 from religious text with wrong interpretation.
  Recently the conscious of the nation has been terribly
 jolted with great shock and awe by a vulgar and misogynistyc
 sermon from a well reputed huzur (venerated men) who
 portrayed woman as tamarind good for men's salivating
 with lust and sexual frenzy, and
  suggested women to stay at home under veils. Huzur's
 sermon may find some relevance to bio-chemistry of human
 anatomy blended with the trait of animosity and rationality,
 but it obviously falls in the category of vulgarity and
 misogyny in a blatant attempt
  of maligning woman.  >>.



 http://www.newstoday.com.bd/index.php?option=details&news_id=2357165&date=2013-09-22

 From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
 <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'javed
 helali' via PFC-Friends
 <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:16 AM

 To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; Abid Bahar

 Cc: Zoglul Husain; Ranu Chowdhury; notun Bangladesh;
 la-dis...@googlegroups.com; Zainul Abedin; Jalal Khan

 Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার
 খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
 কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
 দত্তের সমালোচনা
  





 Mitro???? 



 JH
 512-669-5248

 From:

 pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
 on behalf of 'fatima ashrafi' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

 Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 11:18 AM

 To:
 pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

 Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার
 খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
 কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
 দত্তের সমালোচনা
  



 The Shymal Dutta's should be stopped from talking
 rubbish. Mutual respect of religious sentiments is
 essential.

  

 Dr Fatima Ashrafi 

 From:
 'Raza Mia' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

 To:

 Sent: Monday,
 28 December 2015, 1:05

 Subject:
 {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে
 দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের
 সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের
 সমালোচনা







 ভিডিও >>
 জুমআর খুতবা নিয়ে কথা
 বললেন শ্যামল দত্ত

 জুমার
 খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
 কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
 দত্তের
 সমালোচনা।জুমার
 খুতবায় নাকি ভয়ংকর কথা
 বলা হয়।তিনি আরো বলেন
 জুমার খুতবা সরকারি
 ভাবে ঠিক করে দেওয়া
 উচিৎ।



 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvolWgpQUpU

[Ali Shaheen]

Perhaps we need to look at what is being said, rather than giving knee jerk reactions just because the person saying it is Hindu or BAL or BNP or whoever we happen to hate. Such intolerance is not what Islam is about.  Do only Muslims have the right to be critical of Bangladesh and exercise freedom of speech?  Do we Muslims not have the right to criticize India?  Sorry that is not my idea of freedom of speech.  Those who want to live in the Arabia of the 7th. century should also realize that the Prophet put up with all kinds of persecution by the Quraysh without retaliating.  So I am not sure which Hadith they follow and Quran they follow.

The Quran of course accepts diversity and says we are not to impose our views on others.  Consider Surah 10, verse 99 "And had your Lord willed, all of those on earth would have believed altogether.  So would you compel humanity against their will until they become ones who believe?"  If this doesn't emphasize freedom of religion and expression then I don't know what does.  Muslims need to take a deep breath and live our message of peace instead of looking for a fight at every opportunity.  This is the kind of mentality that leads to the killing of cartoonists and bloggers and takes us to the Jahilya of the 7th. century instead of the religion of peace and compassion.

Sent from my iPhone

[Farida Majid]

That just goes on to show that these evil propandists have no taste or any liking for TRUTH.

Vulgarity is a staple element in any communication Abd Bahar has with anyone who asks for logic, adherence to some historical fact, and ethics. 

<<  In gross distortion of true Islamic teaching, half educated mullahs in our society rampantly carries out their vile campaign in subjugating and maligning our women folk, often misquoting from religious text with wrong interpretation. Recently the conscious of the nation has been terribly jolted with great shock and awe by a vulgar and misogynistyc sermon from a well reputed huzur (venerated men) who portrayed woman as tamarind good for men's salivating with lust and sexual frenzy, and suggested women to stay at home under veils. Huzur's sermon may find some relevance to bio-chemistry of human anatomy blended with the trait of animosity and rationality, but it obviously falls in the category of vulgarity and misogyny in a blatant attempt of maligning woman.  >>.

http://www.newstoday.com.bd/index.php?option=details&news_id=2357165&date=2013-09-22

---

From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'javed helali' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:16 AM
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; Abid Bahar
Cc: Zoglul Husain; Ranu Chowdhury; notun Bangladesh; la-dis...@googlegroups.com; Zainul Abedin; Jalal Khan

[Shahadat Hussaini]

শেখ সাহেব, বাংলাদেশের জনগনকে বহু বচন হাঁকি 

বসলেন গিয়ে পাকিদের  কোলে, দিতে যুদ্ধে ফাঁকি।

বেগম মুজিব হাসিনা সহ নিলেন পাকিরাজদের সেবা 

এটাই সত্য, ওসমান সাহেবরা যতই করুন ক্যাবা।

(তাঁর টি হয়নি কাব্য, হয়েছে ক্যেবলাকান্তের ক্যাবা)

Shahadat Suhrawardy

---

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 00:55:22 -0500

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

From: abid....@gmail.com
To: farida...@hotmail.com
CC: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; zog...@hotmail.co.uk; ran...@hotmail.com; notun_ba...@yahoogroups.com; ZAIN...@yahoo.com; juk...@gmail.com; alishah...@gmail.com; shahd...@gmail.com

[zainul abedin]

Salam,

I did not want to participate in this discussion. But now, there are a few points I like to mention.

1. I like to request all not to go vulgar, please.

2. I am delighted that our sister, Ms Farida, got to understand the matter of "vulgarism" for which some of us sometimes drew her attention about the terms and phrases she used in the past which tantamount vulgar.

3. Our "Imams" virtually overstate some issues and or understate or do not touch at all some issues which are very important involving our day to day life by politics, economics, even foreign policy etc. (government policies). All Prophets, especially, Rasulullah (SM) did that to keep the followers (Muslims) informed for immediate and future actions. That was hijacked by the dynasties started from Umayya and continued to these days' so-called modernists/secular. So, what Imams are left with? That's the "Hurs," "Murs" etc. If Imams talk about transparency of our society, they will be termed "FUNDAMENTALISTS!"

4. Imams also do not understand timing of talking, mostly because "Khutbas' are framed by the dictation of all the tyrant/secular rulers of all times after 30 years of "Khulafa-e Rashedin."

5. In Iran, almost all issues of day to day life including foreign policies are generally discussed in the Friday Congregations for making an informed citizenry.

6. Those who view that our "Deen (Islam) has been hijacked by some radicals, and misinterpreted, I agree with that a little bit. Why has that been happening? It's because we deviated ourselves from the real exercise of Islam. If exercise of real Islam (by Quran and Hadis, and also proper Ijma, Qias) has been allowed, some issues what we think "radical" would not seem like that, because that is the reality. Virtually, Islam has been slowly hijacked/misinterpreted by some so-called Imam who followed the dictations of the tyrant rulers.

7. Please see that, all Imams from Abu Hanifa (RA) to Ibne Taimia were either tortured or killed by the tyrant (so-called) Muslim rulers.

8. So, we need to take back our Islam/Deen (its not the way people of other faiths understand religions) followed by all Prophets of all the times. That is the Direction of Allah/God. Allah rebuked the humans: Would you follow some parts of Deen, and disobey other parts (means partially).

9. Those who talk about so-called "free speech" try to understand no freedom is allowed that touches other's nose. There are restrictions, responsibility, and balance in exercising freedom.

10. Yes, there are differences of opinions we need to honor, but excesses of things need to be protested, no doubt.

11. I am worried about Mr. Samal Datta. Has he become a proponent of real Islam, or the agent of attackers of Islam (the first position maybe not)? He should understand being just an agent of the present BD government, is not journalism!

Best regards,

Zainul Abedin


--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/5/16, Farida Majid <farida...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

To: "Abid Bahar" <abid....@gmail.com>, "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Zoglul Husain" <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>, "Ranu Chowdhury" <ran...@hotmail.com>, "notun Bangladesh" <notun_ba...@yahoogroups.com>, "la-dis...@googlegroups.com" <la-dis...@googlegroups.com>, "Zainul Abedin" <ZAIN...@yahoo.com>, "Jalal Khan" <juk...@gmail.com>, "mukto...@yahoogroups.com" <mukto...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2016, 3:18 PM

#yiv1181790646 #yiv1181790646 -- P
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv1181790646

That just goes on to show that these evil propandists
have no taste or any liking for TRUTH.


Vulgarity is a staple element in any communication Abd
Bahar has with anyone who asks for logic, adherence to some
historical fact, and ethics. 






<<  In gross
distortion of true Islamic teaching, half educated mullahs
in our society rampantly carries out their vile campaign in
subjugating and maligning our women folk, often misquoting
from religious text with wrong interpretation.
Recently the conscious of the nation has been terribly
jolted with great shock and awe by a vulgar and misogynistyc
sermon from a well reputed huzur (venerated men) who
portrayed woman as tamarind good for men's salivating
with lust and sexual frenzy, and
suggested women to stay at home under veils. Huzur's
sermon may find some relevance to bio-chemistry of human
anatomy blended with the trait of animosity and rationality,
but it obviously falls in the category of vulgarity and
misogyny in a blatant attempt
of maligning woman.  >>.



http://www.newstoday.com.bd/index.php?option=details&news_id=2357165&date=2013-09-22

From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
<pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'javed
helali' via PFC-Friends
<pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:16 AM

To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; Abid Bahar

Cc: Zoglul Husain; Ranu Chowdhury; notun Bangladesh;
la-dis...@googlegroups.com; Zainul Abedin; Jalal Khan

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার
খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
দত্তের সমালোচনা
 





Mitro???? 



JH
512-669-5248

From:

pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
on behalf of 'fatima ashrafi' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 11:18 AM

To:
pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার
খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
দত্তের সমালোচনা
 



The Shymal Dutta's should be stopped from talking
rubbish. Mutual respect of religious sentiments is
essential.

 

Dr Fatima Ashrafi 

From:
'Raza Mia' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>

To:

Sent: Monday,
28 December 2015, 1:05

Subject:
{PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে
দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের
সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের
সমালোচনা







ভিডিও >>
জুমআর খুতবা নিয়ে কথা
বললেন শ্যামল দত্ত

জুমার
খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের
কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল
দত্তের
সমালোচনা।জুমার
খুতবায় নাকি ভয়ংকর কথা
বলা হয়।তিনি আরো বলেন
জুমার খুতবা সরকারি
ভাবে ঠিক করে দেওয়া
উচিৎ।



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvolWgpQUpU

[Farida Majid]

Mitro???? 

JH 512-669-5248

 

That's just a flicker of 'garamya politics', the extent of their mischief-making sick mind, Javed Helali.  "Village politics" here does not refer to any real village, but to a dangerously limited mental sphere, deliberately kept in the dark for the purpose manipulation.

* * * * *

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost
A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global anti-extremism campaign.

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost www.huffingtonpost.com World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global anti-extremism campaign.

World's Largest Islamic Organization Tells ISIS To Get Lost

A 50-million strong Sunni movement in Indonesia just launched a global…

huffingtonpost.com|By Krithika Varagur

 

From: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'javed helali' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:16 AM
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; Abid Bahar
Cc: Zoglul Husain; Ranu Chowdhury; notun Bangladesh; la-dis...@googlegroups.com; Zainul Abedin; Jalal Khan

[Abid Bahar]

ISLAM IS THE ONLY OBSTACLE FOR INDIA TO CONTROL/ COLONIZE BANGLADESH

Shamol Babu is not a Muslim asking for a reform from within. Surely, Shamol Mitro's shameless criticism of Islam in rural Bengal is to promote Indian agenda in Bangladesh.

 If Shamol Mitro is so worried about Islamic influence in rural Bengal, it got to be his Indian dada's and Hasina's concern to interiorize Muslim and Islam in Bangladesh. It is because Islam serves as the greatest obstacle for India to control Bangladesh.

Remember after Mujib's return from Pakistan, he was motivated to accept the four principles, not justice, fairness and democracy for which he fought against Pakistan. One of the four Indian pillars was the so-called secularism" of Indra which in effect was to fight against Islam. This is Mujib/ Hasina's Dharmo hinota not the true secularism of Dhormo nirophikhota.

 What we are worried about Shamol Mitro's assertion is the degree of the RAW hand extended even up to our very rural Bengal. We must remember, there were not too many betrayers needed for the East India company to win Bengal then India, it was only one Mirjafor. Now in Bangladesh only Hasina as if like the Ghosheti Begum is betraying with Bangladeshi people. Hasina didn't know Ghati Begum drowned right here in the Buriganga River.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=PvolWgpQUpU

[Ali Shaheen]

Sent from my iPhone

[Abid Bahar]

ALI SHAHEEN DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF BEING POLITICALLY INCORRECT

Ali shaheen, the jack of all trade but master of none doesn't understand that Shamal Datta's remark about Khutba in rural villages (that has been practiced for centuries) is politically incorrect. His remark, instead of solving the problem could be seen as inciting people against communal harmony. This is  due to his declared love for his own religion and hate for Islamic world views. This is especially true when he is with a newspaper. I mean, this type of concern had the potential to cause a riot.

 Let's say Shamol Datta is right, but surely he is politically incorrect.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand this simple matter. For many of us with thin belief in Islam, this matter doesn't require quotes from the Quran. We are more concerned about the potential harmful role India plays in its anti Islamic/ anti Bangladeshi  activities in Bangladesh. For example Muslims in Chittagong were arrested by Hindu policeman with shoes on while devotees praying in the mosque. These days, Hasina keeps police standby in front of mosques especially on Fridays.  Surely, these and Shaymol Datta's are new developments. This also doesn't need any quote from the Quran. Please think about it.  

[Ali Shaheen]

LOL - we are back to personal attacks are we?!  I expect newspapers to have the integrity to print the news and people to have the courage to say it like it is.  Those who cannot handle people of other religions saying the same things that people of their own religion are also saying, need to look at their own double standards and bigotry.  And Muslim men who try to cover up the misogyny of khutbas are worse because they are aiding and abetting the persecution of their own sisters and mothers and wives and daughters.  This is the end of the discussion as far as I am concerned as I am not interested in personal attacks and name calling.

Sent from my iPhone

[Abid Bahar]

The point was political incorrectness

OMG!

 The point was political incorrectness by Shamol Datta. I thought this is a matter of reality check but Ali Shaheen hides under the guise of personal attack. Look what she personally attacks the opponents saying: "This is the kind of mentality that leads to killing...

Isn't "she is indulging herself in personal attacks? She is even blaming the victim. by making all of us Muslim names as being the killers. However, the unfortunate killing of Ovijat, the other bloggers and foreigners is still controversial. Many blame India and Hasina's plot to look like Bangladesh as a terrorist state. Isn't this a Hasina style killing the opponent with lied before her opponent is actually killed.  Ali Shaheen's  good Awami logic indeed!.

 Unfortunately, Ali Shaheen missed the main point of discussion "political correctness." She says:" This is the end of the discussion as far as I am concerned " Could it be that her shutting the door of debate comes from her medieval Muslim mollah mindset?  In our time, isn't this type of attitude also an Olema League type of Awami stand? These are so notorious people that they have only few female followers.  God bless these people with attitude disorder? Like the Olema leagures, Ali Shaheen  treats others as if like they are from another strata of society. She talks but with the wrong argument. By the way who is this impatient Ali Shaheen ? 

 Ali Shaheen, please don't close the door of learning. When you do, you become the subject of personal scrutiny. not necessarily personal attack. Please keep the door open,  we have many things to learn from you. Ha ha! Truly, we want to know if you are a really a progressive person or an old fashioned Awami confused type that quickly gets agitated! 

Please keep responding if you have enough intellectual courage! I promise I will not indulge in personal attacks.

[zainul abedin]

Salam,

I know Mr. Shamal Datta and many others personally, and who is who and what (except some new guys)! What Mr. Datta pointed out is most probably not out of his love for Islam (if it is, I will Salute him, embrace him when I will go to Bangladesh, Inshallah). Even then, I did not say that in my previous note.

Probably, our sister (Ms. Ali Shaheen) also knows the reason of Mr. Datta's Talk on Islamic issues in the present/previous contexts of Bangladesh.

I told about contexts and contents of Khutba's in my previous note. Will our sister (Ms. Shaheen) support the Iranian styles/contents of Khutbas? No where in this world proper khutbas are done (except somewhat in Iran) that were done by Rasulullah (SM) and 4+1 (Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz) Khalifas.

Yes, there should be consideration of peace+compassion, but there should also be consideration of respects for the faiths of (majority) people. We quickly cite some examples from Quran and Rasulullah's (SM) compassion. But even Allah asked His Believers to take actions when there are gross violations! Allah/Quran/Prophets (AS) did everything in balance, not one-sided!

Imam Abu Hanifa helped "Khalfa" Mansur to locate and build his capital in Baghdad. But that Mansur not only jailed Imam, but also poisoned him to death in the jail, when Imam Abu Hanifa refused to be Chief Judge of his Rule. That refusal was treated as a revolt and dishonor. Virtually, followers of Imam were growing fast, so the criticism of many of the misrules of Mansur. We should understand the nature of Islam/Quran/Allah by Quran and Hadis, not mere by our instincts.

Best regards,

Zainul Abedin

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/7/16, Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com> wrote:
angladesh

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

To: "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>, "Zoglul Husain" <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>, "la-dis...@googlegroups.com" <la-dis...@googlegroups.com>, "Ranu Chowdhury" <ran...@hotmail.com>, "BDP...@yahoogroups.com" <BDP...@yahoogroups.com>, "bd_jour...@yahoogroups.com" <bd_jour...@yahoogroups.com>, "BANGLADESH C.FORUM" <bdesh_c...@yahoo.com>, "bangladesh-...@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-...@googlegroups.com>, "Mohammad Gani" <mga...@gmail.com>, "Masud Ali" <ibnm...@gmail.com>, "Jalal Khan" <juk...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2016, 9:23 PM

[Ali Shaheen]

Mr. Zainul Abedin

I have no problem with your concerns about Mr. Datta's motives, but the discussion was about what he said, not what his motives were for saying it which is not known to anyone except Mr. Datta himself. You and I can only speculate about his motives.  I have no idea what your motives are for participating in any discussion.  I take your words at face value.  Similarly we need to take what was said at face value and respond to the content of what he said.  If his motive was mischief, why do we give him the opportunity for making mischief by ignoring the calls to address misogyny in mosques which fellow Muslims have been making for years?

At first people wanted to shut Mr. Datta up and denounced him as a liar primarily because he is Hindu.  Does that make sense?  When I posted information showing that others in the Muslim community have been saying the same thing and this kind of misogyny has not been addressed, one person suggested that Muslims are allowed to say it, but not an outsider which I frankly find astounding!  Every person of any faith has the right, and indeed the obligation, to expose misogyny and discrimination of any kind regardless of where it occurs whether it is a mosque or church or temple or workplace.  And we know that misogyny and abuse, including sexual abuse takes place in all places of worship and all over the world.  

The discussion then shifted to not calling Mr. Datta a liar, but calling him politically incorrect.  It is not politically incorrect to expose misogyny.  It is politically incorrect to cover up misogyny and attack the messenger regardless of his intentions.  So instead of addressing misogyny we are now distracting ourselves from the real issue by attacking Mr. Datta or attacking me.  Isn't that a convenient way to ignore the real problem.

I don't know Mr. Datta, but let us assume he is an Islamophobe.  My position on him would be that he has the right to express his opinions and I will challenge him and debate him when he is being Islamophobic, but when he speaks the truth in this instance, then I will applaud him for doing so.  All of us have bigotry and misogyny in us depending on our upbringing and by virtue of the fact that we live in a world which is full of discrimination and we learn it from our parents, teachers, books, media, friends i.e. all the systems and structures of society.  Yes even women can be sexist when they are harder on other women than they would be on men for the same offence.  So this is not about being self-righteous. If we denounce bigotry in others then we should be willing to engage in self-reflection too.  Let us be critical of Mr. Datta when he is making Islamophobic remarks that have no basis in reality, but let's not pick on him for saying something that fellow Muslims have been saying for years but no action has been taken on it.  If anything, by publishing the misogyny of khutbas in the newspapers he would be doing us a service.  We need many voices from any and every faith group to join this chorus to denounce misogyny.  

There is a difference between attacking the person and attacking an idea.  If I were to call someone a bigot or a misogynist, then I am making a judgement about the person.  But if I am exposing misogyny and bigotry in society or attitudes that lead to violence, then I am naming the issue which needs to be named so that it can be addressed.  Since you are looking for solutions within Islam, then I must ask you what does the Quran and Hadith teach about dealing with those we disagree?  It is my understanding that we communicate our position or invite people to our world view but if they choose to disagree then we agree to disagree.  We are not supposed to go around picking fights.  Indeed we are to retaliate only in self defence and even then the Prophet chose not to retaliate when people would throw garbage on him.  In Mr. Datta's case, what he said is not a lie so why should we attack him?  Are Muslims not supposed to be fair and just?  We don't even need to refer to Hadith or Quran for that, the most basic Islamic principles are to be fair, not lie and not cheat.  

We seem to have a very short fuse and as soon as someone disagrees, the individual who chooses to disagree is attacked instead of providing information and evidence to clarify the issue.  This kind of reaction leads to a culture of abuse where the one who is more abusive and shouts the loudest gets to silence others and "win" the argument.  Apart from it being a false "victory", this is not how discussions should be taking place among the educated.  The purpose of a discussion group is to exchange ideas, information, evidence so that we increase our understanding of various issues and feel free to agree or disagree.    But we seem to have recreated the same sickness of partisan polarisation that exists in Bangladeshi society and which is taking us towards extremism.  Frankly I end up deleting most of the posts as soon as I see the incessant bickering between BAL and BNP supporters who have been rehashing the same issues for years.  We are so stuck in the abuse of the past we are abusing each other now and becoming incapable of building our community or our country.  Surely this is not a forum for high school bullies.

In my post I had made a response to your points suggesting the problem has to do with us not following Hadith, Quran, Ijma etc. and that only the Prophet and the Khalifas practiced "real" Islam. I must respectfully disagree. The problem which we are seeing today is that Muslims have become savages in the name of Quran and Hadith.  The "real" Islam varies from Muslim to Muslim, depending on their interpretation of their faith. Islam is a personal religion, there is no priesthood or pope.  No two Muslims (or even members of any religion) have identical views and beliefs about their faith.  And it varied even in the time of the Prophet and the Khalifas. The Quran embraces diversity, so there is no one way of doing things.  Shias and Sunnis pray differently and only God knows who is right.  We are supposed to follow Islamic principles and guidelines as stated in the Quran.  

Men and women are equal in Islam and neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia have given equality to women.  Let us not romanticise about the 7th. century.  It was also a brutal time full of the misogyny and discrimination of that age.  There was slavery, and beheading and chopping of hands and whipping.  If you lost a battle you might be sold into slavery (if you were allowed to live), and your wife and children could be sold to someone else.  So no.  I have no desire to practice the Sunnah or Quran of the 7th. century.  The Prophet's way of life was for 7th. century Arabia, but the principles he practiced can be incorporated today.  Any interpretation of Quran and Hadith especially in this day and age must be guided by the principles of mercy and compassion (rahman and raheem) which precede 113 out of 114 surahs of the Quran.  Any practice that is not consistent with these two principles cannot be Islamic.

We live in an age of globalization and diversity.  No society is homogeneous.  We have to learn to live with difference and build unity in diversity.  If not, we will follow the path of intolerance where Pakistan has gone.  Bangladesh has Shias and Sunnis and Ahmedis and Buddhists and Hindus and Christians and Bahais among others.  We are all equal citizens.  Solutions to 21st. century problems will not be found in the Islam of 7th. century Arabia.  Religion has to be a private matter.  The values and ethics we get from religion such as social justice, peace, tolerance, compassion and fairness, which are common to all faiths including Islam; can be incorporated into the systems and structures of governance and politics.  This can best be done in a secular society which treats all citizens and all religions equally while ensuring freedom of religion for all, provided no laws are broken.

Islam also makes a distinction between the secular and the spiritual.  Sharia is not divine law, it is secular law that is based on Quranic principles and which evolved over time and was shaped by humans.  Just as social conditions evolve with time so does law, spirituality and human rights.  Muslim men justify misogyny by referring to misinterpretations of Quran and Hadith.  Hadith does not have the same status as Quran and many were collected centuries after the death of the Prophet on the basis of hearsay, and some even contradict the Quran.  There is nothing Divine about Ijma which depends on the group's political and social organizing skills to come to concensus.  These are all male dominated interpretations of Quranic principles from which women are largely shut out. Since women and men are spiritually equal in the Quran, this shutting out of women is anti-Islamic because it violates the principles of justice, compassion, diversity and inclusiveness.  Islam is the most inclusive of religions because the Quran addresses all of humanity, not just Muslims and the religion of all prophets  from the time of Adam was Islam - yes all124000 of them including Jesus and Moses and perhaps Buddha and Krishna too.  Considering the fact that Hazrat Khadija was the Prophet's employer and Hazrat Aisha the source of many Hadith, it appears that women had more rights and credibility in 7th. century Arabia than they do now.  Sharia, Hadith and Fiqh are all secular to the extent that they refer to and deal with worldly matters.

The spiritual aspect of Islam is found in the Tariqas of Sufi traditions.  Their paths have to do with repentence, self-reflection, forgiveness, compassion and love for all of Creation.  Not all Sufis are the same and like every group and sect there are enlightened people and ignorant ones too. Unfortunately this tradition is being stamped out by Salafis who are about 3% of the Muslim population but they have oil and control over the Kaaba so they are able to promote their extremist Sunni perspective all over the Muslim world.  This is one of the main reasons we are becoming spiritually bankrupt.  Also being anti-Shia the Salafis persecute even Sufis, who are neither Shia nor Sunni, simply because they bear allegiance to the House of Ali.  And we all know that the Bani Ummaiyya were sworn enemies of the Bani Hashem (to whom the Prophet belonged) and this bad blood resulted in the tragedy of Karbala and continues to this day.

As you have rightly pointed out with other examples, we have a 1400 year history of abuse of religion and power. The Salafis are not new, we had the Kharijites during the time of Hazrat Ali too who were the spiritual ancestors of Salafis. So there is no point in living in the past.  We have to find practical solutions to present day problems using present day methodology that is consistent with the universal principles of Islam which are for all time.  We need to let go of unnecessary confrontations with our neighbours or the West over religion - we all share the same religion that is Islam anyway (if we truly believe that it was the religion of all the prophets and all we have today is the latest version of the same product because God decides on the things on which we differ, it is not up to us to judge each other). 

Frankly I am less concerned about soldiers walking into a mosque with shoes to root out terrorism and far more concerned about mosques being defiled with the dirt of misogyny and sectarian killings.  Let's get our priorities right.

In closing I would like to thank you for a civil discussion even though we may see things differently.  Like I said, no two Muslims agree on the same interpretation of their faith.

Best wishes.

[fatima ashrafi]

Oh dear Ms Farida Majid, I exactly know what Shyamal Dutta is talking about. Everyday, we hear lot of nonsense from Hindu pundits and priests, we usually stay quiet about it as that is common sense and proper behavior. In fact with my learned Hindu friends we have lots of discussion and in my next time off time, I hope to visit "Amma" a learned Hindu lady from the South of India. People respectfully call her Amma. I agree that some of our Khutbas can be quite terrible and I myself take offence at the content -  we and our government have to take steps to help educate them - by providing quality education, equal opportunity to Madrasa students to compete in tertiary educations and jobs. They are our people and we cannot isolate them. I don't know Ms Farida Majid, where you live but in Australia, we have talks given by learned Islamic scholars some of whom are top doctors, engineers and university teachers and people flock to listen to them. For a long time, we have marginalized our Masjid teachers, our people who live in the village, our grassroots people who go to the mosque and our Mollas who give talks and waz there. As a Bangladeshi Australian Muslima and doctor, I am in fact proud of them that they are doing something positive - we have to support and guide them to have contemporary education  and learn the Quran and sunnah properly.

Thanks Ms Farida Majid - a very Happy 2016 to you and all readers on this forum.

Fatima

 

Dr Fatima Ashrafi from Australia.

---

From: Farida Majid <farida...@hotmail.com>
To: "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2015, 5:10

[Mohamed Nazir]

​

​.....so! Farida Majid, what u' are saying(as I see it)..this Chatro League goon editor of a yellow news paper, 'Shyamal Dutta ' went to attend Jumma  prayer(?) and he noticed  the molla is saying The viciousness of the misogynist lies in his Khutba , giving falsely concocted Hadith and Qur'an; and No one (includeing Dr Fatima Ashrafi) is literate enough in Arabic to catch the hoax, except this Chatro League goon 'Shyamal Dutta' !!!!(?)    ..... really! Farida Majid ,what a brilliant thinking! Ha.. Ha... Ha... may god give more idea like this.

                                                                                                  

[Mohamed Nazir]

This so called Editor of trashy newspaper​, forgot his past mischiefs and crimes while he was Chatro league goon

and now he is preaching  how to deliver Khutba !

Why don't  he pay attention to his Gurus in of RSS, Shib Sena  and BJP;how they say their holy cow shit  sermon,

did he forgot what happened a few months ago in his motherland India ? Hindu mob literally lynched a poor Muslim

and burn his house; was instigated by Hindu guru's sermon !!  was it like om santi ?

[Ali Shaheen]

I am so glad you agree that some of our Khutbas are offensive and something needs to be done about it.  I hope one of the changes will be to ensure that women also take their turn in giving Khutbas.  We do it here in Toronto.  

However, it is never "polite" to collude with misogyny in other faiths either.  Depending on what one is able to do, it is important to take a stand of zero tolerance and educate those who don't know better.  We can work with the community if they are willing to listen but very often the men in the religious institutions will ignore you.  So usually people don't have much choice other than going to the papers or if there are laws in the given country it happens one can go to the police.  Where there are no laws protecting women from hate speech then a letter to the newspaper or your local politicians is the best one can do.  Being "polite" or maintaining silence means that the abuse will continue so we should applaud those who speak out.

Sent from my iPhone

[Rezaul Karim]

Well said, Zainul Bhai.
You provided a well researched indepth analysis of this issue.

Mr.Datta is a RAW  agent in Bangladesh helping the current illegal Hasina regime. He & others who have shown the audacity to control Muslims in Bangladesh need to take off their hands off our masjids. They will be condemned. This Indian puppet regime, after suduing the imams of most  city masjids, now wants to control the imams of the rural Bangladesh.

This is not free speech, this is controlling, this is subjugation.

Let the imams speak freely without any control or pressure.

Thank you.

[zainul abedin]

Salam, Ms. Ali Shaheen.

Thanks for your long and erudite write-up (probably, this the longest one so far I remember). I will try to keep my response at this point brief. I may try to discuss the issues elaborately later as a matter of my further learning.

There are three main issues: i) Misogyny, ii) Islam and Secularism, and iii) Identity/Face Value of a discussant (Such as Mr. Shamal Datta).

I appreciate your positive understanding of inclusiveness of Islam. And, the role of women, such as played by Mother Khadiza, and Mother Ayesha, of the 7th Century.

Misogyny: Also, I appreciate that you mentioned misogyny is everywhere. So, it's not only in the Muslim countries. Being a very mother-centered child, working in the media and even volunteering in a Women's Center in the U.S., I understand it's harmful sides. I many a time oppose misogyny by raising counter-questions even about jokes regarding women (as I do in some other cases too).

I explained the reason of misogyny in our mosques in my very first response. Still I stick to that, while I will be happy to be part of changing the mode. The cause of misogyny is inherent in the overall social conditions, restrictions on our Imams to discuss other state-affairs.

If we want the role of the present-day-women in the society (I want that too) that would be better in the light of Mother Khadiza and Mother Ayesha than those of the modern-day's so-called "Iron ladies," who have been doing what we know in our lie-time. Most women-leaders fulfill their male-based desire/policies on the basis of the mainstream politics, with meager impacts on women's emancipation.

I think, the case of Iran in regards to "freedom" of women, is much better than any other Muslim country (I do not blindly carry this view). I met some Iranians who opine that the Revolution has made such an effect that "that took away their wives." So much freedom was not imagined even during Shah! "Khaname Munshis" meaning office-secretaries, and in cases of women-representation in the society, are comparable to the West.

ii) Islam and Secularism: You emphasized more on secularism than Islam, as a way of our life, while you agree on Islam's inclusiveness. If Islam is all-inclusive, then we agree that Islam is the Complete Code of life (completed thru' Muhammad SM), which started from Adam (AS) as Ordained by Creator/Allah. You also said that Shariah is a secular issue. The ideas of secularism differ from people to people, nations to nations. So, Secularized-Shariah (as in Muslim countries) is different from Secularized-Laws such as in Europe or America.

You tried to say, Shariah is not Divine. I like to say, Shariah is based on Divinity. A believer's whole work (not only Prayers) is Ibadah/Prayer (or like Prayer), because a believer's whole life and submission is to the Creator/Allah (thru' performing social duties). I/we can do that by being sincere, honest in performing my any kind of work/job--from family life to social life. That is the Order of God and that is also standard in any society/nation/country. Sincerity/honesty of a believer is tagged to his/her Creator and Employer (even family too). A non-believer may do that for worldly duty-obligation and self-satisfaction.

There is not much scope of taking Islam as a personal/private issue (since Islam is inclusive). Even, no prayer, especially which are obligatory--from Salah to Zakat--- is personal. Optional prayers are different. Even then, there is the emphasis to perform the Optional to show examples to the family members/neighbors.

I looked back, after at the very beginning of Surah Bkarah, describing the importance and purity of Quran, it says...it's for "those who fear Allah (in plural). Except a few cases, the whole instructions came up in plurality, not in singularity. Even, when, Adam (AS) and Eve (AS) were sent to the Earth, instructions were given in plurality. Ibrahim (AS) was instructed "Qu Anfusakum Wa' Ahlikum Naraa." Please see "kum."

I appreciate your idea of diversity in unity or vice-versa. But diversity is under attack even in the West. Diversity does not mean extreme individualism, though there are (and should have) scopes of individual/personal/private life within a family/society/nation. You said, no two Muslims carry/follow same opinion. In a greater sense, it's because no person was/is made similar. But there are agreements that made our family, society, nation, state where we follow (even have to) many things in common--sometimes, even if I do not like something personally.

By the way, for God's sake, I might be a person among a few Muslims, to understand the matter of diversity and carry respect for other races, faiths, by my lived experiences at a stress from 2008 to to-date. In by 1st grade, I had the best friend who was a Hindu, Madhu Shudan.

iii) Identity/Face Value: I have no problem with the face/race/faith of a discussant. Mr. Datta's issue came up in the forum. I mentioned, as I know him who is a part of the government's policies/motives in the context of Bangladesh. Face and motive come together, sometimes (if not always), especially when a government adopts oppressive measures to subdue the opposition. Later, I saw the video-clip (partial). At least apparently, the discussion by Mr. Datta came up as a part of other things, and he drew the attention toward mosques in the rural areas. There was something like that, since the Hasina government controlled the cities, it should go to the villages too. Now, pro-Hasina people are very very inclined toward adopting a one-party AL control in Bangladesh. The country is now almost a BAKSALite country-- yes, in the presence of a spineless-BNP leadership. I did not say that Mr. Datta said that because he is a Hindu. I said nothing about his motive. I took his affiliation into consideration.

A few month's before, a Hindu blogger was killed in Bangladesh (It's not Mr. Obhijit). Before him another blogger was killed who was a "Muslim."

The blogger, I mean here a Hindu, was critical of luxuries in the mosques, among other things. I myself is critical of making mosques luxurious, as I was critical of making the National Press Club of Bangladesh (in Dhaka) air-conditioned. I argued in our meetings that more than 99% of people do not have access to those types of life-facilities (It was long time before).I said by criticizing luxuries in the mosques the blogger did no fault, even though I did not know everything. I believe, no person should be killed for their opinions. However, we should also be society-sensitive, and behave responsively, even consider government motives (behind the scene, there are many other government-agencies!).

What I said here is in the contexts of Muslim societies only, not others. Sorry, I could not keep it brief as i thought of.

May Allah/Creator give us proper understanding.

Zainul Abedin


--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 1/8/16, Ali Shaheen <alishah...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

To: "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2016, 9:11 PM

11:57 PM, 'zainul abedin' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:
Salam,

Best regards,



Zainul Abedin



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/7/16, Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com>
wrote:

angladesh

 Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends}
জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক
ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক
শ্যামল দত্তের
সমালোচনা

 To: "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com"
<pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>,
"Zoglul Husain" <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>,
"la-dis...@googlegroups.com"

<la-dis...@googlegroups.com>,
"Ranu Chowdhury" <ran...@hotmail.com>,

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 6,

 2016, at 12:27 AM, Ali Shaheen <alishah...@gmail.com>

 wrote:

 Sent from my

 iPhone

 On Jan 5, 2016, at 8:17

 PM, Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com>

 wrote:

[Abid Bahar]

CHANGE FROM WITHIN AND CHANGE FROM WITHOUT

Abid Bahar

 In Ali Shaheen's long email  or lecture, I only found her beating around the bush without providing any new ideas.

Surely, Shamyal Datta's concern about Islam in rural Bangladesh is a matter of topics dealing with change from within and without. 

 Having said the above, I would like to thank Dr. Fatimah Ashrafi for enlightening us with suggestions about educating the madrassa graduates for their proper employments and also for them to respect women  I believe this type of approach is a change from within. This type of change comes through evolution, I mean a gradual but firm change in people's outlook. In this approach, we don't force people to change, we help them to change. This is a kind of neutrality in religion Secularism of religious neutrality (Dharmo Nerophikotha).

 The opposite is change from without. Not surprisingly,  Datta's and Hasina's concern for change reflects Indian concern about Islam in Bangladesh. Hasina's increased recruitments of minorities obviously for her to stay in power, and lately Hindu police officers killing madrasa students using guns and hatred, also lately the burning of the holy Koran in a temple in Bangladesh shows similar to Datta's concern about Islam in rural Bangladesh. Ali Shaheen's with a little learning in Islam and her support to Datta's attitude is not religious neutrality but a dangerous thing indeed, for it is supporting change from outside. It is encouraging Datta, a Delhi traveller xenophobic man to preach interfering in other people's religions. 

Remember during Mujib's reign, there were increased communal riots than after his reign. Why? In the name of secularism.Mujib encouraged people like Datta to preach Dharmohinitha (Atheism). This Datta was a Mujibbadi secularist, a Stalinist  who believes in the use of force to stop religious people, in this case to stop Muslims. This is Dharmo hinotha version of Stalinist secularism. 

As you know considering religion as if like opium Stalin the fascist killed millions of Muslims in central Asia. After the liberation of Bangladesh, Mujib borrowed the Staliinist secularism from Indra, via the West Bengali so- called progressives and our local agent Moni Sing that demanded change through the use force ( today's Gonojagoron moncho's ( Moni Singhi's  call to kill). This Datta, Majid, Ali Shaheens with Mujib's BKSALI Stalinist views have no idea what  Dr. Fatimah Ashrafi is talking about- I guess she believes in the gradual change through religious neutrality.

Unfortunate for Bangladesh, the man that Suhrowardhy called the "illiterate graduate" after the liberation was suddenly elevated by the foreign forces into as if a philosopher of the status of Karl Marx or the famous Sociologist like Max Weber but in his illiterate mind he accepted the Stalinist version of Dhormo hinotha secularism. The so-called Stalinist progressives as the mentor of Mujib even made him the inventor of Mujibbad, which Mujib thought he contributed a new ideology for the humanity.

The ideology of Mujibad (Stalinist fascism)  is now devotedly followed by Hasina and her atheist pro Indian ministers that works to change Bangladesh with views from outside.  All in the name of killing of Muslims as terrorists educating in madrasas. The recent killing was led by Hasina employed two Hindu police officers. We wonder, what is going on?This is no doubt an emerging trend of  Hasina's/ Datta's Mujibbadi version of Stalinist secularism(fascism) in Bangladesh (Please  see the illustration below, the expression of hate and the death).

Sristy Shukher Ullashe shared Chatrodol News - ছাত্রদল নিউজ's photo to the group: Story of Awami League.

5 hrs ·

Chatrodol News - ছাত্রদল নিউজLike Page

Yesterday at 14:52 ·

:"আমি বাকরুদ্ধ.....
এটা ব্রাহ্মণবাড়িয়ায় পুলিশের গুলিতে নিহত হাফেজ মাসুদ এর এই নিথর দেহের ছবি । এটা কোন মানুষের কাজ হতে পারেনা, কোন মানুষের কাম্যও হতে পারেনা,খু...নি হাাসিনার আওয়ামী পুলিশ আবার প্রমাণ করলো, তারা মানুষ হয়ে উঠতে পারেনি এখনো !!!
একমাত্র প্রতিবাদ ও প্রতিরোধ ছাড়া এই আজাব থেকে মুক্তির কোন উপায় নেই। —

[Ali Shaheen]

Thanks for your response Mr. Zainul Abedin. Let me be very clear that this discussion is not about you or any individual in this forum. It is about the ideas that are our communities are dealing with and on which our growth and evolution depends. Do we see ourselves interdependent and interconnected with all of humanity for which the Quran came, or do we subscribe to the ideology of supremacy where some groups are considered superior to others.

1. Freedom of speech and expression. Any person of any faith has the right to express their opinion. I was focusing on what was said, rather than who was saying it. What Mr. Datta stated was true so there is no need to criticize him on this particular issue. When he says something one disagrees with then we can make it an issue. Moreover, he raised issues that we have acknowledged but done nothing about beyond lip service.

2. Misogyny has to be exposed and addressed. Just because it exists all over the world it does not mean Muslims should be complacent about it and not do anything to address it. Indeed Muslim women are among the most marginalized in the world. We can't just say "no big deal we are all the same, it is nothing new". When people attack the messenger instead of taking action against the misogyny in the khutbas then it tells us that people have no interest in addressing misogyny. So giving lip service to changing the role of women is not enough.

3. The reason why misogyny in Khutbas is more alarming is because you have someone in the position of community and religious leadership telling the ummah that it is okay to discriminate against or abuse women. Moreover, they promote discrimination in the name of God. Such men carry weight in the community so instead of shooting the messenger, people who are serious about addressing misogyny need to be doing something about it instead of creating a distraction by attacking the messenger.

4. Living in the 21st. century means not trying to copy the lifestyle of the Prophet, Hazrats Khadijah or Ayesha, but drawing lessons from their lives which are relevant today. Muslim women in the 21st. century will define their own roles just as men define theirs. Men cannot tell us what our role "should" be. We have a brain and can think. We know what equality means.

5. Iran is definitely better than Saudi Arabia when it comes to women, but it also imposes a dress code, restricts travel and does not include women in all areas of work and decision making. That is not equality. Being better than some Muslim countries does not make Iran the ideal to aspire to. Women must reclaim their faith and not wait for Muslim men to give them their rights. Those who benefit from marginalizing women will not be ready to share power. I don't know what "iron" lady you are talking about - there are many more iron men out there who benefit from the oppression of women. When men learn their place in society, which is to share power, resources, decision making and learn to live in partnership with women, they will not be threatened by so called iron women!

6. Secularism is a political ideology or system of governance which focuses on worldly matters and has nothing to say about spiritual matters, leaving it to the private domain. Laws are based on research, evidence and ethics. Muslims can contribute through research and ethical principles too so secularism and Islam are not incompatible. In fact it is said that secular Western societies are more Islamic than Islamic States. Not killing, stealing, being corrupt or lying, and practicing compassion are secular and Islamic principles too. Islam is simply the personal religion that an individual is free to practice in a secular society. What we confuse as Islamic in Shariah law is actually secular. Secular simply means that which deals with worldly matters. Shariah law deals with worldly matters therefore it is secular. There is no Shariah law in the Quran. There are several schools of Shariah named after human beings who devised them. They took certain principles from the Quran and made laws with them to deal with conditions that existed in the Middle Ages and earlier. What is Divine about that? Why can we not take principles from the Quran based on 21st century understanding and devise laws that deal with current conditions? The ethical principles of secular laws came from Judaism and Christianity too which are also part of Islam.

For example, the Quran says that a woman gets half the share of her brother. The principle is to ensure that women are entitled to an inheritance. The Quran does not say that a daughter cannot be given as much as her brother. So taking this principle of the daughter's right to inheritance, she can be entitled to the same amount as her brother. Why? Because sons and daughters are equal, they may or may not have other sources of income or they may or may not inherit from their spouse or they may or may not end up with a disability or they may or may not end up divorced. Do you see how one size doesn't fit all and there is room from an Islamic perspective to provide for one's children using the principles of mercy and compassion instead of what some medieval scholar says about giving a daughter half as much as your son? This is just an example but what is Divine are the principles of mercy, compassion and social justice rather than a man's interpretation of Quranic guidance from the Middle Ages. So in a secular government, people of any faith would be free to leave their wealth to their beneficiaries by writing a will. Why is that not acceptable? Those who want to follow medieval Shariah can put it in their will. Those who want a modern Shariah to live by the principles of equity and social justice can also incorporate it in their will. So why is there a knee jerk reaction to secularism?

7. Those who want medieval Shariah law also worry about divorce because they don't want women to have equal rights in divorce. How is that consistent with the Islamic principle of social justice? The Quran outlines the minimum entitlements to ensure that women are protected. Why would we assume that it is the maximum? Women contribute equally to a family's wealth either through paid work or unpaid work and are entitled to an equal share. Those who want to deprive her of her share and take custody of the children want medieval Shariah laws. Muslim women need to stand up for their rights in the context of the 21st. century, not the 7th. century. I hope that clarifies why secularism which treats all citizens equally in law is essential to deal with misogyny and also to ensure religious freedom for all.

8. Theocracies do not treat all citizens equally. When a country has a State religion then those who follow the state religion have advantages over those who don't. This violates the principle of social justice and freedom of religion both of which are important Islamic principles. Both Iran and Saudi Arabia are theocracies.

9. I agree that secularism differs from country to country. In the West, secularism has a Christian flavour because the majority of the people are Christians. We get holidays at Christmas and Easter. In the East where the majority of the people are Muslim, secularism will have a Muslim flavour and we will have holidays for Eid and hopefully the Prophet's birthday too! But in law all citizens - men and women, Christian and non-Christian, Muslim and non-Muslim - would be equal in all secular societies and free to practice their religion provided no state laws are broken. Why is there a problem with that? No one has been able to answer this question.

10. I don't follow how Shariah is based on Divinity. Shariah is not God. Shariah simply means "path". In Islam there is the outer path of professing belief in God, prayer, fasting, charity and pilgrimage. Plus there is the inner path of self reflection, repentance, compassion, love of all Creation, and incorporating the attributes of God in order to be closer to God. Both paths exist in tandem and are a personal and individual journey. What people refer to as Shariah is actually law or jurisprudence which is also known as fiqh. This is man made interpretation of what humans think Quran law is. So in the 7th. century there was slavery. Islam did not abolish it although it encouraged the freeing of slaves and treating them well allowing marriage to slaves as well. Are we going to say it is okay to own slaves because it is part of Shariah? Similarly there were no jails so they would chop off a guy's hands for stealing to make sure he wouldn't steal again and had capital punishment because there was no life imprisonment for murder. Why would we need that today when we have jails? Do you understand what I mean when I say that medieval laws do not apply in the 21st. century; that Islamic principles are for all times, not medieval practices?

11. Based on my personal experience with the proponents of Shariah law, I have found that those who want to impose it would like to legalize child marriage (because pedophiles among Salafis claim it is okay to marry a child of 9 as they have distorted the age of Ayesha at marriage to be 9 instead of 19), they don't want men and women to have equal rights in inheritance and divorce, and they want to discriminate against gays and lesbians and non-Muslims. The Islam that I believe in does not justify discrimination and protects the rights of all humanity.

So just as you claim to see through Mr. Datta's hidden agenda based on your personal knowledge of him, you must forgive me if I have strong reservations about the not so hidden agendas of those who are against secularism and want Islamic States with Shariah law based on my work in human rights.

Apologies for another long mail but these issues can't be dealt with in 140 characters!

Sent from myiPhone

[Razzak Syed]

Dear all,
Bangla Islamic Councils in Bangladesh appointed new chief adviser Dr. Muktee Sri Sri Shaymol Dutta. From now on all masjid will release their summons as per his advice only, otherwise will be marked as 'Tellolist'.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean anyone will have rights to hurt other's faith by any means.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone

[zainul abedin]

Salam to all,

I wanted to avoid another reply to Ms. Ali Shaheen, even if she is a female or not (because I have seen some others addressing as "Mr."/"he"). I try to respect any person. I do not have time to spend to chew the same cud. As bother Razzak said something, I opted again.

First, if we claim to be even an ordinary Muslim (I am not a perfect man, rather be a perfect Muslim!), and if we agree on the Principles of Quran we maybe able to solve the 21st century problems. We need to talk, negotiate with people of all creeds and communities.

Second, when I appreciated her position about Mothers Khadiza, Ayesha (RAs), now she wants everything on the basis of the so-called modern day. As we are born in these days, we have to face the present day situation, but based on the light of Quran and Hadiths. We are not more intelligent than Allah (SWT) and the Messengers. Also, she maintains Islam is inclusive. That's good.

Third, there are misogyny. This is a part of the Mother Problem, which is the un-Islamic Politics of Centuries, such as one now Hasina and others have been making in Bangladesh. We need to straighten the Mother problem, then misogyny would be kicked out easily. She wants removal of misogyny under Islamic shade, but not want Islam!

Fourth, Mr. Datta carries an ID, which belongs to AL. I have no problem with that. As a journalist, he should first talk against the most repressive regime (Hasina) of Bangladesh, then come to the subsidiary issue, such as misogyny.

ID and trust is very important. Muhammad (SM) was the most trusted person in the community (Al-Alameen). When he called people together, he told them, "If I say there are enemies behind the hill, would you believe it?" They replied, "Yes, because you do not lie." There are many other instances of Prophet (SM) being the most trusted person to depend on.

The other day, I saw a Harvard Professor's book entitled "Presence," which says, smartness and trust are two most important attributes of a person to be hired by a company. In comparison, trust gets the highest priority.

We see, many smart people among us, but a few are trusted (usually). Personal trust is very important. People need to know who am I.

Last, my agenda is not hidden, I again say, I am not a good follower of Islam. But I try to keep on faith on Allah's Solutions (maybe I cannot follow much). That's my hope to be forgiven by Allah. We all are counting our days! Some people are very smart to argue this and that. But we need to be trusted as much as possible to the Creator. I hope someone's any kind of exploration of "agenda" will be a positive witness to my Almighty Creator (SWT).

Khoda Hafez,

Zainul Abedin

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/14/16, 'Razzak Syed' via PFC-Friends <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2016, 11:00 PM

[zainul abedin]

Salam,

Thanks Dr. Bahar and Karim bhai. I had a few more notes on the issue of Imams, and talks of Mr. Shamal Datta. I did not consider Mr. Datta as a Hindu. I considered his affiliation to Hasina government and politico-atrocities going on in Bangladesh.

Sorry, I should have appreciated Dr. Fatima's views about Khutbas. It's not mere a matter of Khutbas and Imams. It's a social phenomenon, as a matter of "social mentality or privilege" of a big number of people in the general masses, plus historic links to tyrant rulers.

About Mujib, it's also a result of idiotic steps of Ayub Khan who helped make Mujib a leader from the status of mere an agitator, that helped outsiders, especially India to make Mujib a trump-card of the game. In 1966 Round Table Conference called by Ayub Khan, Mujib placed his six-point without knowledge of his party leader Nowabzada Nasrullah Khan, that made a suspicion and hue and cry among the party rank and file. Ayub used that confusing situation in his favor, instructed all the news media to spread the message of the six-point. That worked to its detriment; the Round Table Conference was disbanded to Ayub's temporary/short-lived convenience. Later incident was the Agartola Conspiracy!

Zainul Abedin

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/14/16, Abid Bahar <abid....@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} জুমার খুতবা নিয়ে দৈনিক ভোরের কাগজের সম্পাদক শ্যামল দত্তের সমালোচনা

To: "Rezaul Karim" <rezaulk...@gmail.com>
Cc: "pfc-f...@googlegroups.com" <pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>, "Zoglul Husain" <zog...@hotmail.co.uk>, "notun Bangladesh" <notun_ba...@yahoogroups.com>, "Zainul Abedin" <ZAIN...@yahoo.com>, "Ranu Chowdhury" <ran...@hotmail.com>, "la-dis...@googlegroups.com" <la-dis...@googlegroups.com>, "Jalal Khan" <juk...@gmail.com>, "mukto...@yahoogroups.com" <mukto...@yahoogroups.com>, "Farida Majid" <farida...@hotmail.com>, "BDP...@yahoogroups.com" <BDP...@yahoogroups.com>, "bd_jour...@yahoogroups.com" <bd_jour...@yahoogroups.com>, "Isha Khan" <bd_m...@yahoo.com>, "Tanvir Nowaz" <tanvi...@yahoo.com>, "refo...@yahoogroups.com" <refo...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2016, 2:57 AM

CHANGE FROM WITHIN AND CHANGE FROM

WITHOUTAbid Bahar

 In Ali Shaheen's long email 
or lecture, I only found her beating around the bush without

providing any new ideas.Surely, Shamyal

death).Sristy Shukher Ullashe

shared Chatrodol News - ছাত্রদল
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PageYesterday at

PM, "'zainul abedin' via PFC-Friends"
<pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:
Salam,