Video of Dr. Mahbub Khan's talk on Big Bang Sciences (6-6-2014)

[mahbub...@hotmail.com]

Big Bang Sciences

 
Dr. Mahbub Khan gave a talk on Big Bang and other recent Sciences at Yaseen Foundation at 621 Masonic Way, Belmont, California 94002, USA, on June 6, 2014 starting at 9 PM. The presentation was for about one hour and 24 minutes, with a break of 3 minutes (from 35 min - 38 min) due to internet connection issue. 

 
The Youtube Video of the Presentation for about one hour and 24 minutes is at the following link:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dEtHHwd920&feature=youtu.be

The Power Point slides of this presentation are posted in Slide-Share Iqra Tube at the following two links, where the Video has been embedded as well:
 
http://www.slideshare.net/iqratube/big-bang-theory-in-islam-dr-mahbub-khan
 

www.slideshare.net/iqratube


The Abstract of this presentation has been posted at Yaseen Foundation Website at  www.yaseen.org  at the following link:
 
http://www.yaseen.org/announcements/yaseenfoundationrecentscienceslecturebydrmahbubkhanfrijune6th8pm
 
Thanks a lot to Yaseen Foundation for hosting this talk.
 
With best regards,
 
Dr. Mahbub Khan
California, USA
408-859-3566, mahbu...@ieee.org
 

---

 

Yaseen Foundation

www.yaseen.org

 

 

Recent Sciences

Big Bang, Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Black Hole, Neutrino, Graviton, God particle, Expansion of Universe, & Search for Life elsewhere in Cosmos.

Mahbub Khan, PhD

Faculty of Physics and Astronomy

Friday June 6, 2014

9:00 PM – 10:30 PM

Belmont Masjid | MCC Muslim Community Center

621 Masonic Way, Belmont, CA 94002, USA

 

ABSTRACT:

Dr. Mahbub Khan has a Ph D in Physics and he has worked for over 30 years as Principal Scientist, Interim Director of Research and Development and in other positions in the Computer high density magnetic data storage and in Semiconductor fields for several High-Tech Corporations of Silicon Valley and elsewhere including IBM, Seagate, AMAT, and National Research Lab. He has served as the IEEE Chairman of Silicon Valley and SBIA President. He is an active Community Volunteer in Silicon Valley and Los Angeles in California. Now on his way to retirement, Dr. Mahbub is currently working as an Adjunct Faculty of Physics, Astronomy and Mathematics at several institutions, teaching University students and College students located locally as well as Nationwide in Classroom-Hybrid-OnlineDL settings through LMS Systems, teaching US-Military students located worldwide through Online Distance Learning settings including Online Physics-Labs, and teaching Incarcerated students located in prisons and Correctional facilities all across USA using Telecourse settings through TV Channels.  In this presentation Dr. Mahbub will talk about some recent sciences, including the Big Bang and the accelerating expanding flat Universe that marks the boundary between open and closed universe models. The separation of four fundamental forces of nature (Nuclear Strong, Weak, Electro-Magnetic and Gravitational), releasing huge amount of energy through Inflation stage and other means, and how the 13.7 billion years old Universe with super-cluster of galaxies watched the death of stars through Supernova-II explosions paving the way to the birth of our 4.5 billion years old Solar system, our home (Sun-Earth-Moon), which is currently at its mid-age stage with some heavy elements higher than the highest binding energy element Iron, and how our Sun (currently as a Main-Sequence Star) will die along with the Solar system, will be explained. How the temperature of our Cosmos dropped from 10³² K to only 2.73 K, and what happened during that time will be mentioned. Dark matter, Dark energy and Black Hole singularity will be explained. The neutrino speed and God particle or Higgs particle, or Higgs Boson of Standard Model and the Gravitational field energy quanta - Graviton, which have recently caused some frustrations but a lot of excitements among scientists worldwide will be reviewed. The on-going search for life elsewhere in the Cosmos, the Universe, will be discussed.
 
Contact Information of Dr. Mahbub Khan:  California, USA
e-Mail: mahbu...@ieee.org, Phone: 408-859-3566-cell

[mahbub...@hotmail.com]

Dear Nazrul,

Thanks for asking if I am from BUET. I studied Physics at Dhaka University Carzon Hall for my Honors (1969) and MSc (1970). I did HSC from Dhaka College (1966) and SSC from Chittagong Collegiate school (1964). I was lecturer of Physics at Jahangirnagar University and from there I came to USA in 1974 to do my Doctorate in Physics. The rest of my background is briefly given in the Abstract below, related to my talk on Big-Bang-Sciences.

Please feel free to watch the YouTube Video of my talk on Big-Bang-Sciences, as linked below.

Regards,

Dr. Mahbub Khan

Silicon Valley/Los Angeles, California, USA

408-859-3566, mahbu...@ieee.org

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:21:15 -0500

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Dr. Mahbub Khan's Kids' Graduation Ceremonies

From: nazr...@gmail.comTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Who is Mahbub Khan? Do I know him? Is he BUET graduate, please? 

---

From: mahbub...@hotmail.com
To: mahbu...@ieee.org
Subject: Video of Dr. Mahbub Khan's talk on Big Bang Sciences (6-6-2014)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 08:19:31 -0700

Big Bang Sciences

 
Dr. Mahbub Khan gave a talk on Big Bang and other recent Sciences at Yaseen Foundation at 621 Masonic Way, Belmont, California 94002, USA, on June 6, 2014 starting at 9 PM. The presentation was for about one hour and 24 minutes, with a break of 3 minutes (from 35th min to 38th min) due to internet connection issue. 

==========================================================================

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:21:15 -0500

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Dr. Mahbub Khan's Kids' Graduation Ceremonies

From: nazr...@gmail.com

To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Who is Mahbub Khan? Do I know him? Is he BUET graduate, please? 

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S®4.

-------- Original message --------

From: Rezaul Karim

Date:09/16/2014 8:53 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Dr. Mahbub Khan's Kids' Graduation Ceremonies

Our heartfelt congratulations and admiration from Boston for Dr. Mahbub Khan, Mrs Khan and his brilliant children. May Allah bless them all and accept them to serve the humanity with their caliber and values. A very unique family achievement, indeed.

Thanks.

~ Rezaul Karim

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Ali Shaheen <alishah...@gmail.com> wrote:

Congratulations to your entire family.  Wishing you all every happiness and success.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:51 PM, mahbu...@ieee.org <mahbub...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
Ivy League Columbia University in New York,
UC-Berkeley / UCLA / UC-San-Diego in California,
Johns Hopkins University in Maryland,
Georgetown University in Washington DC,
Drexel University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,
SUNY – State University of New York.
-----------------------
MD practicing Attending Physician at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York,  Electrical Engineer at a High Tech Industry in Silicon Valley, California,  Prestigious US-Presidential Fellowship (PMF) with US Federal Government in Washington DC.
------------------------
 
Dear Friends,
 
We are very humbled to share with you some of the Graduation photographs of our 4 children:  Madhury, Kamal, Jamal and Monika, that my wife Reena and I were blessed with by Allah (swa).
 
Madhury  graduated from UC-Berkeley (with a Major in MCB, Molecular Cell Biology), and she also went to school at Johns Hopkins University, Georgetown University (SMP, Special Masters Program), Drexel University (MD, Doctor of Medicine) and SUNY Downstate Brooklyn in New York (Ob/Gyn Residency). The photographs include Madhury’s undergraduate graduation from UC-Berkeley, MD graduation from Drexel in Philadelphia, PA and her Medical Residency Graduation in Ob/Gyn from SUNY Downstate in Brooklyn, New York. Madhury is currently working as an Attending Physician as an Ob/Gyn MD at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York.
 
Kamal  graduated from UCLA with Major in Electrical Engineering. The photographs include Kamal’s graduation from UCLA. Kamal is currently working as an Electrical Engineer at a High Tech Corporation in Silicon Valley, California.
 
Jamal  graduated from UC-Berkeley (with triple Major in Economics Honors, Political Science, Rhetoric and an additional Minor in Global poverty, all four Majors/Minor within 4 years) and then he went on to Harvard Law School and there he received his JD (Doctor of Jurisprudence). The photographs include Jamal’s JD graduation from Harvard Law School last year in 2013. Jamal is currently doing his prestigious US-Presidential Fellowship (PMF) with US-Federal Government in Washington DC.
 
Monika  graduated from UC San Diego (with Double Major in Environmental Science and International Studies) and then she went to Graduate school at Ivy League Columbia University in Manhattan New York and received her MPH (Masters in Public Health). The photographs include Monika’s graduation from Columbia University with MPH (Masters in Public Health). Monika just graduated from Columbia University this Spring semester in May 2014.
 
With the blessings of Allah (swa), all of our 4 children were identified early on in their Elementary Schools as GATE (Gifted and Talented Education) students. They all received US Presidential Awards. They all were Valedictorians at various School Graduations. In addition to academics, they also did extensive levels of extra-curricular activities and Internships, including International projects abroad and overseas. Along with the academics, they also grew up through the weekend Islamic school at Islamic center, monthly family Halaqa programs on religious topics, as well as through the Community Cultural Association programs and events in active roles and lead roles. They also received many distinguished Awards and Scholarships for their exceptional performances and achievements in academics as well as in extra-curricular activities. Some of the prestigious Awards of our first child Madhury are UC-Regents Scholar, IBM TJ Watson Memorial Scholar and Silicon Valley Youth Hall of Fame, which made Madhury the role model for our other 3 younger kids Kamal, Jamal and Monika, inspiring their successes as well.
 
Madhury and Rezwan got married with festivities in Silicon Valley, California, USA on May 28, 2011. Some pictures of their wedding ceremony are included here. Rezwan grew up in Staten Island of New York city, where he earned his MBA, and now he works for the Federal Reserve Bank in Manhattan, New York. Rezwan’s father Syed Reza Ali is a BUET Graduate from Dhaka, and he worked in Bangladesh and USA. Rezwan’s grandfather was Syed Murtaza Ali (Brother of Syed Muztaba Ali).
 
My wife Reena did her best to raise our four kids well. She has taught our kids and guided our kids in many good ways, with her utmost care. I have actually learned a lot of good things from my wife, and I have said this gladly in public on many occasions that my wife Reena is a better human being than me, because of her higher human values than mine.
 
An article about our family was published in the Thikana Newspaper of New York in 2012, with the title “ Mahbub khan Family Community’s Model”, which is included here as the last picture.
 
Please pray for our beloved 4 kids Madhury, Kamal, Jamal and Monika so that they can continue to succeed in all aspects of their lives by achieving even higher grounds of goodness, kindness, fairness, righteousness and other human values along a path which is enlightened by education, knowledge, wisdom, modesty, honesty and mutual respect, in order to achieve a much clearer and broader understanding of this magnificent creation within ourselves as well as all other things around us and beyond, and also certainly the absolute loftiest purest Almighty, in order to achieve the ultimate goal of the higher and higher levels of Taqwa. As loving parents, this is what we all can pray for our beloved children.

 
With best regards,
 
Dr. Mahbub Khan

Silicon Valley, San Jose, California, USA
Phone: 408-859-3566
e-Mail: mahbu...@ieee.org

[Shah DeEldar]

"All knowledge belongs to Allah"?

That must be a personal belief, I suppose. It pains me to see a great deal of scientific discoveries are being colluded with God with no proper proof or evidences, specially from Muslim scientists . True scientific knowledge owes nothing to anybody except our ever curious human minds, which put forward hypothesis and test them with intelligent experiments. The experiments are then validated by others and then we move onto newer concepts and theories to know more about the nature's mysteries. This will probably go on forever until we perish someday.

I am not sure how God fits into this equation? Western scientists have freed themselves from this unnecessary baggage and that is why they are moving the scientific knowledge front with a lightening speed. With more religion in scientific thinking is not a help but rather a burden to our scientific minds. God and Science are two different domains and lets keep them separate from each other. Thank you.

-SD

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[iftekar chowdhury]

Intelligent Design, that is how many scientists now try to paper over the issue. Allah has spoken and we obey. Our Creator cannot wish anything but good for us. That is my humble view.

   Iftekar.

Sent from my iPad

[Shah DeEldar]

Thank you for your sarcasm!
Obey without questioning should be the true standard/temperament of a scientist? Is that where we would be heading this century too? Surrender our minds before we even start dealing with a scientific problem?  

[mahbub...@hotmail.com]

Dear Shah Deeldar,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

It is usual that we as Muslims sometimes start something by saying "Bismillah..". People of other faiths also sometimes do similar things. This talk was on Big-Bang-Sciences, and I stared my talk by saying a Qur'anic verse, and I ended this talk by saying another Qur'anic verse. Those two verses are not part of this talk on Big-bang-Sciences.

We usually discuss these levels of sciences in scientific communities and in educational institutions, but I gave this particular talk on Big-Bang-sciences at a community gathering, in order to bring higher level of awareness about recent sciences in the community and to popularize sciences among the community members, and I was pleasantly surprised by the feedback from the audience. The audience felt that even-though these scientific topics are difficult to understand, but I was able to present these sciences in an easy enough way that they could understand many parts of my talk. One of the examples is the expansion of the universe and the Bread-Raisin example that I gave, and they said that they now understood how the universe expands and they loved the easy example.

So, please look at the scientific aspects of my talk in this presentation and see if this is informative enough and easy enough for the general audience.

With best regards,

Mahbub Khan

Silicon Valley and Los Angeles

California, USA

408-859-3566-cell

mahbu...@ieee.org

---

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:05:02 -0400
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Dr. Mahbub Khan's talk on Big Bang Sciences (6-6-2014)
From: shahd...@gmail.com
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-...@googlegroups.com; mukto...@yahoogroups.com; bangladesh...@googlegroups.com

[iftekar chowdhury]

Please don't misunderstand me. I spoke what I felt. There are a number of challenge verses in the Holy Qur'an. It is not a book of science but of signs.Seeking knowledge is the obligation of every Muslim. We must learn keeping in mind our limitations. My knowledge of the Scripture is limited and I cannot pursue scholarly exchanges.

   Best,

 Iftekar.

Sent from my iPad

[rashed Anam]

Nope..all knowledge belongs to 'Bhogoban', RAM or to  or to 'Modi'!

All listen up...The Islam hater speaks...!!! 

Science and Religion are two different entities. Narrow minded Haters like Deelder try to make a conflict between Science & Religion. In fact Science & religion often are complementary.

The Science merely discovers what the nature has within it. Science is based on physical evidence or inference based on evidence.

Religion is based on belief. Not based on evidence.  

One can belief in BigBang and on Religion at the same time. One can believe that BigBang was created by God. One can believe that the characteristics of maters, discovered by Science, as created by God. 

Who gave the neutron, proton, higgs-bosom the behaviors that they posses? One can believe it's by GOD. One does not have to but one can surely believe. 

Science's intention is not to prove or disprove GOD's existence or non-existence one way or another. Science job is to discover matters and nature's behavior. Only haters like Deelar try to make controversies and try to put science against religion. 

   

[Shah DeEldar]

Thank you Dr. Khan for delivering a fine lecture in a layman's language. For the scientific part of the lecture, I got no problem with it. However, when you say all knowledge belongs to Allah and 'our task is only to reveal and decipher it from His huge store for the public' (you did not say that; that is an assumption from my side), I see a problem. Is Allah being the Nature? We are merely learning how our universe has been expanding since the big-bang with so many ifs and buts. But the experiments, logic and observation give us rather a coherent picture. With the same breath the minute building block of life, a tiny living cell is no less fascinating. How they function with so many thousands proteins, RNAs and DNAs bumping onto each other in every micro seconds to keep us alive and cognitively conscious is no less complex and easy . Experiments are being done to reveal these secrets which had been there for millions of years. If you call it as Allah withholding that knowledge  from us, that would be an absurd statement.

Religion might have been little science friendly in the beginning but they saw the danger and they tried to nip it in the bud as we all know how Galileo becoming the target of powerful clergy people for simply telling the truth. God did not tell clergy people that Galileo was right!? The mentality of these people have not changed that much since then and that is how they rule over the masses.

You being little religious with your particular audience is not a problem but your lecture with scripture quotes might be construed as some form of tacit support for the holy book as being a book of science, which, it is not.
Please keep up the good work! Thank you.

-SD

[Shah DeEldar]

"We must learn keeping in mind our limitations."-I.Chowdhury

I think, I understand you. However, I do not agree with your view about our mind's limitation. The limit that we had some 40 years ago is no longer a limit. People are even thinking beyond our closest moon. Thank you.

-SD

[Zoglul Husain]

Dear Dr. Mahbub Khan
 
Thank you for sharing your brief bio and your excellent presentation on 'Big Bang and other recent Sciences at the Yaseen Foundation'. I read and listened with much interest. You have covered a lot of topics within a small amount of time, which is simply wonderful. I was very much impressed and am grateful to you for sharing. 
 
I am not a physicist. I did some physics at degree level, but now being a long-retired computer consultant, without having anything to do with physics all this time, I don't remember a thing about what I learnt, if at all, in physics as a student. But very occasionally I read one or two books on popular science, especially layman's physics, or physics for the uninitiated (especially, uninitiated on relativity, quantum mechanics or string theory). From those books, it seems that, in spite of the stupendous development in physics, there have arisen serious questions on the theoretical aspects of physics.
 
One such book, which I read recently, is: 'The trouble with Physics' written by Lee Smolin, US 2006, UK 2007, Penguin 2008, which you may have seen. In the book, the writer has listed 5 problems of physics. I am listing the problems, and I would be thankful if you would be able to find time to make a brief comment on those. The problems, the writer has listed, are:
 
Problem 1: Combine general relativity and quantum theory into a single theory that can claim to be the complete theory of nature. (The problem of quantum gravity)
 
Problem 2: Resolve the problems in the foundations of quantum mechanics, either by making sense of the theory as it stands or by inventing a new theory that does make sense.
 
Problem 3: Determine whether or not the various particles and forces can be unified in a theory that explains them all as manifestations of a single, fundamental entity.
 
Problem 4: Explain how the values of the free constants in the standard model of particle physics are chosen in nature.
 
Problem 5: Explain dark matter and dark energy. Or, if they don't exist, determine how and why gravity is modified on large scales. More generally, explain why the constants of the standard model of cosmology, including the dark energy, have the values they do.

The writer says that, the string theory set out to solve these, but after a huge amount of most brilliant work, it has not been successful, though there are critics of the book, who do not agree with many of the writers conclusions. There is a Wikipedia article on the book.
 
However,  I am requesting you to comment on the problems, rather than on the book, or the success or failure of the string theory.

Salaam, regards and very best wishes
 
Zoglul Husain
 
 

---

From: mahbub...@hotmail.com
To: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Dr. Mahbub Khan's talk on Big Bang Sciences (6-6-2014)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:42:26 -0700

[iftekar chowdhury]

Thanks.I agree with you that we have possibilities limitless. Yet if Allah so wills. Muslim majority countries are also spending a lot on education,R and D and also women there are rising up too. Good progress without question. We need to have our separate identity. If we look at things with a totally Western Mind, it is also a limitation. 

As-Salam,

     Iftekar.

Sent from my iPad

[Ahmed, Mosleh-Uddin (Mosleh)]

Dear Rashed Anam,

 

First I want to thank Dr. Mahbub Khan for undertaking such an arduous job of encapsulating quite a number of topics in the frontiers of physics for the layman in such a “short” presentation. He tried to remove the fear of some tough concepts in physics. May Allah reward him for his effort.

 

The relation between science and religion is not an easy topic. And this is not limited to any particular religion. There are those who believe science and religion are compatible and others have differing views. There are many shades of opinions in-between. Mr. Shah DeElder expressed his views. We do not have to agree with his views.  But to call him an “Islam hater” without adequate evidence, in my view, is uncalled for. This amounts to a personal attack. From your discourses in this forum you definitely seem to be a very learned person with insight into the topics you address. And I am sure you are aware of the mechanics of the personal attack or name calling in a public forum like this. When one resorts to name calling, one already, by definition, admits to a defeat in the debate. And by calling names, in my view, the perpetrator reduces his human stature a little below that of the victim. I request Mr. DeElder to restrain himself and to enjoy his elevated stature just bestowed on him.

 

Let me quote a few verses from the Quran which I find relevant:

20:44 “Speak to him gently so that he may take heed, or show respect”.

49:11 “Believers, no one group of men should jeer at another, who may after all be better than them”.

88:26: “And then it is (only) for Us to call them to account”. [So that the humans are not to be the judge of those who disbelieve – this is my comment in the context of this verse].

 

Allah knows best.

 

Regards,

 

Mosleh-Uddin Ahmed

New Jersey, USA

[rashed Anam]

Mr Ahmed,

There is a reason Deeldar is termed as designated Islam hater in the community.  He is well known for his anti-Islamic views for long time. I've seen his venomous diatribes for more than two years in multiple forums. So, I don't know how long you've seen his postings in others forums or if you're new to his posts...but after 2 years of seeing his hate-speech, I've no qualm about designating him Islam hater after seeing his records for 2 years. What quacks like a duck, feels like  a duck surely is a duck. 

There is a difference between expressing views and expressing hatred. Don't appease hate. Have courage to call hatred as hatred. Have courage to call dictator as dictator. Don't sanitize hatred & intolerance views. I don't have to tolerate hatred with my velvet gloves and with dispensing verses. You're entitled to choose your style. 

Remember that if we let bigotry and hatred go unchallenged, they will always flourish..like Hitler was appeased.  Here are only a few evidences you wanted of  Deeler's hate diatribes...

 

 1. Shah Deeldar :"Pretty idiotic! You people can't even sing. Who cares whether you sing for Allah or people? Even dogs would be tortured from songs."

2. "Islam is a complete philosophy and comprehensive life style." Drink that kool-aid as much you want in your little village! 

3 He calls Sheikh Mujib a racist because Mujib would not have granted Najurl Bangladeshi Citizenship had Najrul a Hindu. 5. 4 Have you heard his phrasing of "bring you wives and sister to me...I like it in halal style" in numerous times.

So, you can try to elevate a Islam hater into your 'Discussion table"...but a bigot and hate-monger will always be called out 

.  

[Ali Shaheen]

Knowledge has no identity Iftekar.  Knowledge goes beyond religion or nationality, it belongs to humanity and needs to be shared for everyone's benefit.  Of course everyone has a perspective and our beliefs, culture, experiences and upbringing influence our perspectives.  In the U.S. there are people doing "Creation Science" which is more about religion than science.  I am glad Mahbub incorporated the latest developments in astrophysics in his talk.

Here are a couple of related articles written by a Bangladeshi Professor for lay people which may be of interest.  It is from a secular perspective.

Olber's Paradox:

http://archive.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=237889

Shape of the Universe:

http://archive.thedailystar.net/newDesign/print_news.php?nid=239707

[iftekar chowdhury]

Morning here.As-Salam. We have similar views on many points after all. A shairi:

    Bas ki dushvar hai har kam ko ahsan hona

     Admi ko bhi mayassar nahin insan ho na.

  Insaniyat will bring us all together.

   Iftekar.

      

Sent from my iPad

[rashed Anam]

While I agree with Ms Ali in the most part, seeing Deeldar, who does not have any advanced degree or credential to put forward yet challenge scientist like Mr. Mahbub is really absurd. His attempt to re-erect century old debate as if it is a new concept, is actually motivated and aimed at maligning Islam and most of us see that and ignore that, most of the time. 

This is a bit hilarious and waste of time at the same time.  This religion vs Science debate had already happened in last century...no need to re-invent the wheel here.  

Mr. Mahbub's esteemed credentials, education, achievements and his strong religious believe, is a perfect example of how that debate had ended, in coexistence of belief & science side by side. His belief in his religion had not prevented him from seeking out knowledge. He is just one of the millions of religious people who have achieved great milestones in advancement of science. They were   

The science was given birth in the Middle eastern regions. Like the Mesopotamian (Babylon/Egypt) astronomy are still the foundation of modern astronomy. Similarly Medicine, Alchemy, Algebra, agricultural science of  Babylon/Egypt/Islamic-period  are well known origins. These people were known to be religious too (whatever the religions were).  That did not prevent their mind from practicing science.

Einstein himself was religious. He once said 'there must be a simplified explanation of nature, because GOD is not arbitrary".  Copernicus, the famous astronomer, was priest and became a Canon later. He also had mentioned GOD explicitly in his work.  Gallileo himself had said that "Bible cannot err". Famous French Scientist Pascal (air pressure/calculator)  was a devout catholic with last word "May God never abandon me.". Sir Issac Newton was a devout christian too who saw numbers as understainf of Gods plan. He said in him famous Principia,   "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.". His religious mind did not prevent him from contributing to probably 1/4 of modern scientific formulas.  

Max Planck, father of quantum physics, was a church warden and a practicing Christian. He had said that "Both science and religion wage a tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition with the goal toward God!".  People already know of Ibn Sina's contribution in medicine, Al-Khwarizmi for decimal airthmatics etc.

These people were not prevented by their religious believes, obviously.

 

[Shah DeEldar]

The problem really boils down to simple faith vs rigorous experimental evidences. If people believe somebody had designed everything from the very tiniest particle to the most sophisticated organism like us, mammals, we should rather focus on finding the existence of that designer. Nobody has found or seen that great designer yet and hence curious minds have started to seek truths with their scientific questions and experiments.

Intelligent designing is rather a notorious fad for certain delusional minds, which will take its course and eventually, yield nothing but more noises and nonsense. This too will pass. Thank you.  

-SD

[rashed Anam]

Most people are not obtuse for you to be harping them not to be obtuse! Your picking out anything Muslim/Islam about any individual, incident or issue and making that the central focus is too conspicuous.    

[Ali Shaheen]

Thanks Mosleh for your constructive intervention.  I find it problematic when comments from other conversations are introduced to this discussion.  We don't know what the context of those comments were, and name calling is never acceptable if we happen to disagree with someone.  Calling someone an "Islam hater" or someone else an intolerant Muslim zealot does not add anything to the discussion.  The issue was separation of science and religion and some of us may be interested in that discussion.  Those who are not, do not have to participate.

Secular fundamentalism and religious fundamentalism are two sides of the same coin.  If someone makes a comment we don't like, we can always agree to disagree without resorting to personal attacks and name calling.  Shouldn't we at least ask questions, clarify or explain the issue instead?  Name calling is an attempt to attack the person's credibility instead of engaging in discussion and learning about, or from, the other's perspective.  Some people are religious and some people are not, they are entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.  It should surely not prevent one from having a civil discussion. 

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ahmed, Mosleh-Uddin (Mosleh) <mosleh...@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

[rashed Anam]

Ms. Ali,

Your assertion seem extremely sophomoric & naive to me. It's your choice to cheery pick a snippet and ignore the full character/backgroud of someone. To me the motive, context and the wholeness speak the truth.  It is for the same reason, we (most Bangladeshi) do not give much importance to what Ershad says, because  we know his characters and motive. It's the same reason we do not give importance to what a known dictator like Bashar says on democracy. It's for the same reason we do not take anything comedian Bill Maher says against Muslims. It is the same reason we disregard anything Texas Tea party senator Ted Cruz say anything about immigration or on Muslim or on social security. Because they they have build a track record. Ted Cruz build a track record of anti-immigrant, of anti-Muslim. So I do not have qualm calling Ted Cruz and anti-immigrant, an anti-Muslim. Similarly I do not have any qualm calling Deeldar a Islam hater. I've already given some examples of his hate speech in previous threat. Read up.  

  

[Shah DeEldar]

Thank you, Ms. Shaheen for voicing your opinion. A discourse should be to the point with arguments and counter arguments. What I wrote some two or four years ago on a different context should not be a part of this particular discussion unless there is a relevant connection to the subject. I understand an attention seeking troll who might be suffering from some brain disease may not be aware of his/her own sanity but that should not be an excuse for delusional comments. He/she sees ghosts around him/her even there might not be any around his/her vicinity. A good doctor like a Dr. Khan or other moderators need jump into the discussions and sanitize them with sharper knives before they start stinking. Thank you.

-SD 

[rashed Anam]

Only if you practice what you preached would be beneficial to you.  There is no place to hide for hate mongers and racists. Just like there was not place to hide for Rajakars, for Nazi..there will be not any place to hide for Islam haters. Just like Rajakars and Nazi were hunted down and called out....the hate mongers will be hunted down and called out..even if they try to jump from one group to another in hope of getting a new cleansed up identity. 

As I said, I've put forward the evidence and track record that even the hater himself cannot deny. The standard excuse of 'context' is what every accused try to take shelter in...too old and lame one. Again, the one quacks like a duck, talks like a duck, feels like a duck.  is a duck.   

[rashed Anam]

When the  Florida Koran-burning-hater-monger pastor  assumes a new suite-&-pant and shows up in a dinner party, some may call him 'your-holiness',  but the most people will always call him hater-monger/racist. Because his hate-track-record will always stay with him. 

Hate mongers always discover & pick out excuses even in most unrelated issues/events.  For example, in the scientific presentation of scientist Mr. Mahbub, Deeldar found/discover issues of Islam/religion. Instead of talking about the subject matter, the  presentation material, he  chose to make it controversial on most benign and common practice.  

 His selective targeting of Islam is so conspicuous. He never finds any issues or never speaks out when Muslims are persecuted or murdered, like in Burma, China. Or when India persecutes/kills Muslims (Gujrat riot/Kashmir etc.), Or Israel's slaughtering of Palestine or occupation of Palestine.  

[Ahmed, Mosleh-Uddin (Mosleh)]

Dear Friends,

I would have ignored this email chain but for the intervention I made a

[Ahmed, Mosleh-Uddin (Mosleh)]

Dear Friends,

 

I would have otherwise ignored this email chain but for the intervention I made a few emails back to discourage personal attacks in this forum. It seems I miserably failed, and now I see counter attacks. Calling your opponent as “suffering from some brain disease” is not the right way to win a debate.  But I am eternally hopeful that given the right environment people do change.

 

I wanted to bring about a few points on Democracy and Secularism, Science and Religion, but I lost my appetite for that.

 

My apologies if I hurt anyone’s feelings.

 

Regards,

 

Mosleh

[Ali Shaheen]

I agree Mosleh.  We need a fair and transparent process where everyone is held accountable.  People have different perspectives.  Those who are religious, and those who do not have a religion, should both be entitled to express their opinions without fear of personal attacks.  Sometimes people make off the cuff remarks or exasperated comments - if we were to note down every crazy comment we have made and throw it back on each other's faces at every opportunity we get, we would not be building community but fanning arguments. Escalating every discussion into a fight defeats the purpose of this group which I understand is to share ideas, information and discuss opinions - respectfully!  Each one of us has the right to our own opinion and the right to disagree.

Our communities are experiencing significant problems. Whether someone is a secular/cultural Muslim, a practicing Muslim, or a spiritual Muslim - we are all part of one family.  Instead of attacking each other we need to respect our differences and look for what we have in common rather than what divides us.  People who promote fights rather than civil discussions need to be held accountable whether they are believers or non-believers.  Religion is a private matter - we can discuss religious topics without personalizing the discussion or waging jihad here.  The same is true of politics - we are free to choose our politics and agree to disagree on different political perspectives.

Above all we need a fair and transparent process.  Is this group moderated?  What is the role of the moderator?  We are collectively responsible for ensuring that the discussions are respectful.  Being knowledgeable does not give anyone the licence to be rude.  

[Shah DeEldar]

Mr. Ahmed, What debate would I be winning with a person who has been holding a knife in his hand? Read his threatening letters if you care. The man would love to kill comedian Bill Mayer, senator Ted Cruz and many others because they do not share his views. I find that is very troubling in a country like USA. 

-SD

[rashed Anam]

Hmm...The BAKSALI threat of police state!!  We should wet out pants with these threats!

 The threat and persecution by state apparatus and party thugs are nothing new to Bangladeshi...We've seen that in BAKSAL-1 when they killed 40 thousands and banned free speech, media and democracy.  

We are seeing them again in BAKSAL-2 era under Shiekh Hayena.  I dare Dictator Hayena & her goons to do a jack on me. 

Just because Hayena govt could arrest & give some 7 years for saying flattery comments, she & her chamcha do not scare us all..even a bit. So bring it on buddy! 

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Bipulnahar <bipul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Need to find out which Army group are involve in conspiracy against our PM Sheikh Hasina and AL govt. also few Shushils Jamaat, BNP and AL people are engage in this matter.

There are group of army officers involve in this matter along with USA pentagon intelligence. 

BNP Jamaat shushils and few AL leaders those didn't get anything I meant Bonchito rival group.

Need to find out who is inside AL doing this conspiracy. All Bonchito or rival AL leaders should be under NSI watch list.

Strengthen or reshuffle DGFI and we have to find out which Army group are involve with pentagon intelligence doing this conspiracy. 

Use RAW or China intelligence to identify those culprits. 

Best

Bipul KAMAL 

Sent from my iPhone

[Ali Shaheen]

Can we try to exchange views instead of aiming to "win" or "defeat"? If we debate for the sake of debating then we won't bother to listen.  It takes one party to opt out of the cycle of violence for it to end.  Abusive language and verbal attacks are part of the continuum of violence.  There is too much of it in our community and it is up to us to change it.

[Shah DeEldar]

Win or defeat matters very little to me. I see things certain way and express my views. When people attack me personally for my views, that is a show of weakness. I have been called many names in different forums and I take that with some humor. I had some great discussions on Muktomona forum with others and I do not remember who won or lost in many of those long debates. But at the end, you learn something from them and become little more sharper with your thoughts. 

If I had not questioned Dr. Khan about his "All knowledge belongs to Allah" quote, many of us might have more time to cook few more Hilsa curries in their kitchens and have had Bangladeshi food nirvana. Would have been a better route given the animosity that I have generated by asking a simple question. Holy Islam was threatened by my question? Just praise the person for his/her good work and move on? Do not question because I have not flashed my degrees yet for the public? I see these kind of viewpoints are truly troubling for Bangladeshis.  If JFC wants people to sing Kumbaya song all the time, I would rather prefer to go for a longer hibernation. 

-SD 

[rashed Anam]

Where do you get this imagination "The man would love to kill comedian Bill Mayer, senator Ted Cruz and many others because they do not share his views." ? 

"Mind is a terrible thing to lose!" 

Even a 5 year old understands typo 'threat' instead of 'thread' that says read my previous thread.  Then again it shows how hatred corrodes one's sanity and level of intelligence that is not even in part with a 5 year old. 

Now that the hated beans is spilled, have the courage to man up & own up...don't become a spin doctor and hide behind excuses.

[rashed Anam]

The point is unmasking your serial hatred pattern which is to pick on Islam/Mulsim to malign it, even when Islam/religion is not an issue.  This is not the first time you've done it bu ta thousands time. When the main topic was science, you had nothing intelligent to say about it but to pick on a common practice by Muslims. 

As I say, I never see you picking on Hindus, Christians, Jews. That's my point. You do it because you have allergy/hatred against Muslims & Islam. 

[rashed Anam]

What are the basis of your 'asharey golpo' and bad dream? Your unfounded baseless 'prolap' only makes you look like fool. 

Please know that there was only one parson who fled BD...it was Sheikh Hasina during Mainuddin/Fakhruddin while Khaleda stayed on.....It was Awami-leaders who fled Bangaldesh on 25th March to India....while Major Zia fought on the battle field....so fleeing is a  inherent trait & habitual traits of AwamiLeaguer.

[Ali Shaheen]

Debates need to be civil like any discussion.  When people are out to "win" they start to hit below the belt.  There is a difference between developing a thick skin and tolerating abuse.  The latter encourages bullies.  Civil society operates under certain codes of conduct, rule of law etc.  I don't see the problem in appreciating each other, singing Kumbaya when the occasion arises, and also engaging in meaningful discussion that does not degenerate into name calling.   When people engage in name calling and personal attacks they reveal far more about themselves than their targets. Perhaps people who hold grudges against each other can settle fights privately, away from the group, instead of subjecting the rest of us to it.  Learning respect is just as important as acquiring other knowledge.

I have no problem with questioning Islam or any other religion as I do not believe in blind faith.  I do have a problem with not being respectful in the process.  Whether anyone hates Islam or not is of no consequence to me.  People are free to hold whatever opinion they choose.  I prefer to focus on the issue under discussion rather than dig into anyone's life and beliefs and engage in mudslinging.  

But let me not keep anyone from their cooking - very pleased that you can cook hilsa - it is an important life skill, something we all need to learn and on which our survival depends.  Well done.  Debates don't feed anyone!

[Shah DeEldar]

Thank you Ms. Shaheen for your posts. They clearly show where you stand. I would hate to see you being my deadly opponent! Please keep up the good work.

With best regards;

-SD

[rashed Anam]

some people seem hell bend to embarrass themselves no matter what 

1)  What law exactly did this 'Prohom-alo" publisher break?? If they did not break any law, on  what ground a state has legal/moral right to harass/intimidate them? 

Oops forgot! BAKSAL govt can do anything they want....like put some one in jail for 7 years for mocking a PM. 

2) Since when 'Zafar Iqbal' is regarded an 'intellectual'? This goat lives on tax payer salary to teach & work on computer science but he spends all his time doing 'gono jarogon" and BAKSALI chamchami.....not a single scholarly article on computer science is published by him in internationally recognized magazine. He got time for everything, including dancing publicly with young girls, his daughter's age (oops it runs in the family), but not time for computer science. He better let the computer science position go so that some real scientist can have a chance.    

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Bipulnahar <bipul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Prothoma publishers is a sub publishers of prithom Alo group, they published AK Khondokars contradictory book, regarding our independent history. Intellectual Zafar Iqbal requested a copy of pundulipi or the writers own hand writings in regards of as a documents of real publications. Prothoma Publishers failed to provide that pundulipi.

I think our information ministry should move forward against Prothoma publishers and question them to provide pundulipi of AK Khondokars recent book which Prothoma publishers published.

We all know how prothom Alo group tried to ignite Hindu Muslim danga in our country.

Best 

Bipul KAMAL

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bipulnahar <bipul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Khaleda will escape Bangladesh within 3 months once her all conspiracy fails, her and her sons deep conspiracy is to kill our PM and remove AL from power and once that fails then she (Khaleda) will escape Bangladesh.

Sent from my iPhone

[Ali Shaheen]

No hard feelings - let's try to be assertive, not aggressive :).

[atlanticma...@gmail.com]

You are right Mr.Rashed Anam.
Thanks.
Farid

Sent from my BlackBerry® powered by Virgin Mobile.

---

From: rashed Anam <rasheda...@gmail.com>

Sender: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 02:02:14 -0400

To: Bipulnahar<bipul...@yahoo.com>

ReplyTo: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com

Cc: pfc-f...@googlegroups.com<pfc-f...@googlegroups.com>; Ahmed, Mosleh-Uddin (Mosleh)<mosleh...@alcatel-lucent.com>; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups<bangladesh-...@googlegroups.com>; mukto...@yahoogroups.com<mukto...@yahoogroups.com>; Bangladeshi American Googlegroup<bangladesh...@googlegroups.com>; Isha Khan<bdma...@gmail.com>; BDP...@yahoogroups.com<BDP...@yahoogroups.com>; Nuran Nabi<nura...@gmail.com>; Abid Bahar<abid....@gmail.com>; na...@googlegroups.com<na...@googlegroups.com>; Nazrul Chowdhury<nazr...@gmail.com>; ala...@yahoogroups.com<ala...@yahoogroups.com>; Alochona Groups<aloc...@yahoogroups.com>; Faruque Alamgir<faruque...@gmail.com>; Dr.Gholam Mostofa<mostofa...@gmail.com>; Shah DeEldar<shahd...@gmail.com>; Dr. Jamir Chowdhury<americ...@gmail.com>; Hussain Suhrawardy<shahadat...@hotmail.com>; Asiful Islam<asi...@gmail.com>; Khondkar Saleque<khondkar...@gmail.com>; NewEngland Awami League<neawam...@gmail.com>; New England Bnp<bnp.new...@yahoo.com>; Farida Majid<farida...@hotmail.com>; anis....@netzero.net<anis....@netzero.net>; Gonojagoron Moncho<projonm...@gmail.com>; Quazi Nuruzzaman<quaz...@yahoo.com>; Rezaul Karim<rezaulk...@gmail.com>; syed....@gmail.com<syed....@gmail.com>; Md. N Uddin<md.u...@comcast.net>; Zoglul Husain<zog...@hotmail.co.uk>; Zahirul Bhuiyan<muku...@gmail.com>; zain...@yahoo.com<zain...@yahoo.com>

Subject: {PFC-Friends} Re: Prothoma publishers and prothom Alo group

[iftekar chowdhury]

Assertive, not aggressive. Good advice.

    Iftekar.

  

Sent from my iPad

[Shah DeEldar]

The line is rather blurry. Both stances might yield exactly same responses.

[Bipulnahar]

IS Jongi in Bangladesh, Tareq Rahman is involved and Khaleda Jamaat Gong, 2 of them (IS Jongi) got arrested yesterday.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Bipulnahar <bipul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Prothoma publishers is a sub publishers of prithom Alo group, they published AK Khondokars contradictory book, regarding our independent history. Intellectual Zafar Iqbal requested a copy of pundulipi or the writers own hand writings in regards of as a documents of real publications. Prothoma Publishers failed to provide that pundulipi.

I think our information ministry should move forward against Prothoma publishers and question them to provide pundulipi of AK Khondokars recent book which Prothoma publishers published.

We all know how prothom Alo group tried to ignite Hindu Muslim danga in our country.

Best 

Bipul KAMAL

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bipulnahar <bipul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Khaleda will escape Bangladesh within 3 months once her all conspiracy fails, her and her sons deep conspiracy is to kill our PM and remove AL from power and once that fails then she (Khaleda) will escape Bangladesh.

Sent from my iPhone

[Ali Shaheen]

The following link may help differentiate between passive, assertive and aggressive communication:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtstcil.org%2Fskills%2Fassert-3.html&ei=EBomVL7UH8OUyAT2r4CgAQ&usg=AFQjCNEMj6QJVSem9R3kLEURjZevMFDVMw&sig2=APxfls13dQd2sGXhYQevvQ

We cannot control other people's responses, we are only responsible for our own.  We can only communicate what is unacceptable.  By being aggressive in response to assertive communication, people reveal more about themselves.

[Shah DeEldar]

Isn't it obvious that we can't control other people' responses? Since the debates are being performed in an internet forum, we do not know who are making good eye contacts and who are glaring and staring on the masses? Both an assertive and aggressive persons can state their opinions and both may appear to be aggressive or assertive when we are not even looking at them. In a public debate, difference would be felt because tone  and substance would provide the clue. A great example would be a debate between Noam Chomsky and late Christopher Hitchens.

Your thoughts are interesting, however I would not conclude anybody's assertiveness or aggressiveness from their writings. I think we are splitting hairs here. There is no need to be too cautious about internet form of debate. Otherwise, you will be editing your own posts until they become totally sterile and perfect. Personally, I like some drama in the discussion to keep people excited about the posts. I am for more individualistic styles than a perfect standard of elegance, which many of us lack profoundly. Thank you.         

[Ali Shaheen]

I am not sure why the relative anonymity of the internet encourages people to be rude.  Perhaps they need to use people like punching bags to relieve the anger they have stored within them?  Whatever the explanation, picking fights on the internet is not my idea of excitement.  I prefer thoughtful, rational communication to name calling and mudslinging.  People have different communication styles, but put downs, name calling, or personal attacks are not acceptable anywhere - whether it be in face to face encounters or the internet.  This is a friendship circle, a discussion group not a boxing arena for people who need an adrenaline rush by beating up on each other.  Christopher Hitchens and Noam Chomsky are not members of this group, and if they were, I would expect them to observe the norms of civility too. Several people, including the owner, have repeatedly expressed the need for civility, not just me, so I hope people who wish to engage in aggressive communication will do so outside of this group.  I really don't have anything more to add to this topic.

[Rezaul Karim]

Good observations, Mr. Shaheen.

 You did a damn good job, here. 

I hope sanity prevails,and there"s no more hitting below the belt in order to knock out each other. However as you now know, this approach has been tried before.repeatedly with the same person using pseudo name. We will see if there is a change. 

~ Rezaul Karim

[Shah DeEldar]

Dear Ms. Shaheen, you raised some interesting issues and I have tried to make my points clear. That is all. If you want to be more assertive with your posts, you are free to choose your way and style. I would hate to deliver sermons to others, let alone the participants of this forum or other forums in regards to how they should craft their opinions or posts with an assertive tone. Why would you impose that burden on the others? I am not here to ask for anybody's support and sympathy for my opinions. I would be asking some tough questions if I am allowed. The moderators have full discretion to stop me and my posts anytime they wish and that would be perfectly OK with me. If moderators have any holy thing to protect and defend, they should state that explicitly. Welcome to the new world!

I am simply expressing my opinion about an issue that you raised, which I could have easily ignored and moved on. But , I thought you needed to hear a different point of view. And, now it seems it became too personal for you? You should rather point out where did my analysis has gone wrong? If you do not agree with any of my points, please point out and put forward your counter points.  I think I made abundantly clear where I stand. Thank you.

-SD

[Ali Shaheen]

Thank you.  All of us have to do our part and it is up to us collectively to make change.  One way to deal with failure to respond to requests for civility is to ignore any post that is rude.  As I had mentioned earlier conduct or comment that is known, or ought to be known, to be unwelcome is harassment and people who engage in such behaviour say something about themselves.  At our age we don't need to subject ourselves to schoolyard bullies!

[mahbub...@hotmail.com]

Big Bang Sciences

Dear Friends,

This video talk is on some difficult topics of Big Bang Sciences, but it has been presented in a very easy and simple way for the general audience to understand. The bread and raisin example, towards the beginning of the talk, about how the universe is expanding, and the example of spaghettification of human body near a Black Hole due to the sharp gradient of acceleration due to gravity, as discussed towards the end of the talk, are some of the examples of simplification for the general audience to understand these difficult concepts in recent sciences. Part of the purpose of this talk is to enhance the scientific awareness among the common people, and also to promote the enthusiasm in order to develop curious scientific minds among the general audience at large. I also strongly believe that our human knowledge remains vastly inadequate if it does not include at least some of the information treasure from beyond our planet Earth. So, please enjoy the YouTube video of this talk at the link given below, if you have not watched it already, and please let me know if you have any questions.

With best regards,

Dr. Mahbub Khan
California, USA
408-859-3566, mahbu...@ieee.org

---

Big Bang Sciences

 
Dr. Mahbub Khan gave a talk on Big Bang and other recent Sciences at Yaseen Foundation at 621 Masonic Way, Belmont, California 94002, USA, on June 6, 2014 starting at 9 PM. The presentation was for about one hour and 24 minutes, with a break of 3 minutes (from 35th min to 38th min) due to internet connection issue, which you can skip.