Log in disabled

[Rinke Hoekstra]

Hi,

I'm trying to login to create a new PURL, but this is currently disabled. Any idea as to when this will be possible again?

-Rinke

[David Wood]

Hi Ryan,

Are you using the OCLC PURL service at purl.org? This list relates to other services, as I unfortunately need to remind people.

You will be unable to login to the OCLC service using a Chrome Web browser due to a JavaScript change. OCLC has been provided with the fix for this, but has chosen not to install it. You might try using a different browser.

If the above doesn’t fix your problem, please let us know.

Regards,
Dave
--

http://about.me/david_wood

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "persistenturls" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to persistenturl...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Rinke Hoekstra]

Hi Dave,

Sorry for spamming the group forum. I indeed ended up here through a prominent link on the purl.org website (no other contact info available there). Perhaps it's a good idea to contact the maintainers and have them remove that link (or at least put it in a less obvious location).

-Rinke

[Lars Pettersson]

Hi, I tried using both Chrome and IE on a win7 machine and both get the response that login has been disabled.

Best, Lars

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 6:45:22 PM UTC+1, David Wood wrote:

[Stian Soiland-Reyes]

Excerpts from David Wood's message of 2015-10-27 17:45:19 +0000:

> Are you using the OCLC PURL service at purl.org? This list relates to other services, as I unfortunately need to remind people.

I'm also on this list because I am using purl.org - is there a different
mailing list that is more appropriate?

--
Stian Soiland-Reyes, eScience Lab
School of Computer Science
The University of Manchester
http://soiland-reyes.com/stian/work/ http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718

[David Wood]

Hi Rinke,

No problem! OCLC no longer provides a separate list, which is why discussions end up here.

My only suggestion is that anyone with an issue related to the OCLC service at purl.org say so explicitly :)

Regards,
Dave
--

http://about.me/david_wood

On Oct 28, 2015, at 04:41, Rinke Hoekstra <rjho...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Dave,

Sorry for spamming the group forum. I indeed ended up here through a prominent link on the purl.orgwebsite (no other contact info available there). Perhaps it's a good idea to contact the maintainers and have them remove that link (or at least put it in a less obvious location).

[David Wood]

Hi Stian,

I’m sorry to say there is no better list. OCLC no longer provides one, and has linked to this list.

Your comments are welcome here.

Regards,
Dave
--
http://about.me/david_wood

[David Wood]

Hi Lars,

Wow - I see what you mean. OCLC has disabled logins for *everyone*.

This might be the last straw for me…

Regards,
Dave
--

http://about.me/david_wood

[Jeff]

Sorry for the inconvenience. The SOLR index on the purl.org site has stopped updating, which prevents effective maintenance. The login mechanism is turned off until a solution is discovered. The timeframe for that isn't clear yet.

Jeff

[John Erickson]

I'm astounded by what I am hearing in this discussion.

I'm happy to be a contributor to a discussion about how we fill this
vacuum with a solution that is user friendly and delivers what
stakeholders need.

As a contributor to the PID discussion (and implementer of relying
solutions) since before the birth of DOIs, I've got a few thoughts...

John

John S. Erickson, Ph.D.
Director of Operations, The Rensselaer IDEA
Deputy Director, Web Science Research Center (RPI)
<http://tw.rpi.edu> <olyer...@gmail.com>
Twitter & Skype: olyerickson

[Alan Ruttenberg]

I'm astounded to read this comment. The OCLC server has been running for something like 18 years with minimal downtime. Engineering and supporting any service for this period of time, particularly one which serves a community, at no cost, is amazing. 

Perhaps start the discussion with examples of systems and support efforts you have experience with that meet or exceed the 18 year span of OCLC.

I'm not terribly interested in a flame war, but I think the contribution and efforts of OCLC should be remembered here, and that first we should inquire about the nature of the problem and see if there is anything we can do to help. I have done so, privately.

Alan

[Norman Gray]

Alan, hello.

On 29 Oct 2015, at 5:59, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:

> I'm astounded to read this comment. The OCLC server has been running
> for
> something like 18 years with minimal downtime. Engineering and
> supporting
> any service for this period of time, particularly one which serves a
> community, at no cost, is amazing.

If I recall correctly, these point have been rehearsed more than once on
this list, specifically in order to acknowledge OCLC's efforts here.
Many on this list will be aware of OCLC's innovation with respect to
purl.org and of their past contributions to its continuing support.

However it does seem clear that the resources they are able to devote to
it are less than what the service actually needs. That's fair enough.
But in that case I think it is incumbent on them to think equally
imaginatively, and ideally publicly, about what to do to let the service
move somewhere else.

The reason why one might trust the unbranded domain purl.org above, say,
purl.oclc.org or purl.anything.org is precisely because such a
transition plan has implicitly been conceived of at the very beginning.

w3id.org is a bit of a lash-up, and I doubt its creators would disagree.
It doesn't have much in the way of a UI, nor yet much visibility, but
the core idea is a terrific one by virtue of being very simple, and its
persistence and succession plan is both explicit and plausible.

Thus w3id.org is a _believable_ long-term identifier; purl.org isn't,
now. I make that statement categorically, because it is a subjective
thing: I do believe that w3id.org has at least the potential to be
around for a long time; I do not personally believe that purl.org will
be around for very long, and I now actively discourage people from
considering that as a 'long term URI' solution.

The long-term persistence of archives, libraries and museums is partly
technical -- making sure the beetles don't eat the parchment or that
bugs don't eat the filesystems -- and partly social. OCLC may have
managed the technical part of persisting purl.org, but they're losing
the battle with the social part.

> Perhaps start the discussion with examples of systems and support
> efforts
> you have experience with that meet or exceed the 18 year span of OCLC.

ArXiv started in 1991; I don't know what the oldest stuff is at ADS [1],
but there's at least some stuff from the 70s; CDS [2] has been going
since 1983.

[1] http://adsabs.harvard.edu
[2] http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/about

All the best,

Norman


--
Norman Gray : https://nxg.me.uk
SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK

[Daniel Garijo]

Dear Jeff,
do you know if there is a clear timeframe for solving the issue now? I have been using purl.org successfully for a couple of years, but now I need to change a purl and I cannot access my account.
Best regards,
Daniel

[David Wood]

Hi Jeff,

I have faced SOLR issues with the US GPO PURL service many times, and come up with solutions. If you are stuck, then call me. My number is available at the link below my signature.

Regards,
Dave
--

http://about.me/david_wood

[David Wood]

Hi all,

This message constitutes my response to Alan, John, and Norman.

Please note that some messages posted late because the senders were not subscribed to this list. Those wishing to have a conversation about this topic should subscribe to avoid delays.

> On Oct 29, 2015, at 12:34, Norman Gray <norman...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, these point have been rehearsed more than once on this list, specifically in order to acknowledge OCLC's efforts here. Many on this list will be aware of OCLC's innovation with respect to purl.org and of their past contributions to its continuing support.

Alan is correct that OCLC deserves credit. All systems die, and organizations change, eventually. The community has a legitimate concern about the stability and reliability of purl.org.

The PURL project at OCLC never made it into their production department. It was an R&D project 18 years ago, and remains an R&D project today. That is the source of the problem we are encountering; purl.org is a single machine with a single, part-time administrator.

One might contrast purl.org to purl.fdlp.gov, the US Government’s PURL service that facilitates curated access to important public documents that is operated by the US GPO. The GPO used to run purl.fdlp.gov like OCLC runs purl.org, and experienced a significant downtime six years ago. They mended their ways and now have significant monitoring, support, security services, and hot backup services in place. Their uptime in the last five years has exceeded 99.99%.

In short, OCLC as an organization has not taken purl.org seriously. They show no sign of changing that. Jeff Young is doing the best he can, but has no resources to fix the problem properly.

> w3id.org is a bit of a lash-up, and I doubt its creators would disagree.

As one of its creators, I do not disagree. The w3id.org service relies upon GitHub, which is fine for now. I cannot guess what might happen with that commercial service in 18 years. We could always fall back to just git, with some work.

> It doesn't have much in the way of a UI, nor yet much visibility, but the core idea is a terrific one by virtue of being very simple, and its persistence and succession plan is both explicit and plausible.
>
> Thus w3id.org is a _believable_ long-term identifier;

The aspect of w3id.org that makes it a good service is that many organizations are involved. If Digital Bazaar goes away, Open Link is still around. If Open Link goes away, 3 Round Stones is still there. If 3 Round Stones falls, others are there, and still others can join at any time.

It is my strong view that any persistent identifier service must be backed by multiple organizations. This is where OCLC failed, and why purl.org is in trouble now.

It probably isn’t worth hashing history, but I did try to sell OCLC on a P2P PURL service some years ago. They didn’t care.

[Monica Omodei]

As OCLC is a membership organisation of libraries, including national libraries, university libraries etc, perhaps some lobbying is needed from library associations even IFLA. I am assuming the concerns expressed on this list are shared by some large and influential libraries.

If OCLC are unable to commit the necessary resources to move this service to a full operational level then is it feasible for the domain name purl.org to be taken over by a consortium like W3C in the form of w3id.org ?

OCLC are to be commended for developing and supporting this service for so long so that we could generate purls for persistent identification without them being reliant on the persistence of our own organisations. This is their strength and 

[Monica Omodei]

... and hopefully OCLC will consider either handing over the domain purl.org for the resolver service to be maintained by an organisation for whom it is core business or decide it is part of their core business.

My two bobs worth,

Monica

------------------------------------- 

Monica Omodei 

Project Manager 

Australian National Data Service 

ands.org.au 

[David Wood]

Hi Monica,

That is a fine idea and has my support. I suspect the w3id.org community would also get behind it.

Regards,
Dave
--

http://about.me/david_wood

[Monica Omodei]

still relating to purl.org resolver service

---------------------------------------------

I went to modify a partial re-direct and discovered that login is still disabled for those administering purl.org domains

I am still anxious that I have seen no response from OCLC about either their commitment to continued support for the resolver service behind purl.org or a decision to handover support to another suitable organisation so that these purls continue. But then I am not well connected currently and they may have responded in another forum.

As an earlier post mentioned, purl.org was deliberately non-branded so it could be supported by any organisation over time and thus be sustained - that's what persistence is for.

We don't mint individual purls but rather use partial re-directs. We use them for term identification in our vocabulary service, and for research grant identification nationally, which we have been doing for seven years. I am in a dilemma because we are being queried as to why we are still generating purl.org purls and pushing the sector to use these identifiers when referencing research grants and scientific terms, especially in metadata. 

I am not a particular  expert in this area and don't attend meetings, conferences etc in the Northern Hemisphere where there might be discussion on this topic.

This downtime for login and hence modification has been quite lengthy. At least the PURLs are still working which I suppose is the most important thing.