call tomorrow?

[David Judd]

I have on my calendar a conference call tomorrow. Is this happening?

-David

[elly]

Something came up, so I can't make it...

Also, it's not on the tech ops events page.

It's been impossible for me to coordinate Permabank from afar, so
although I wish it were happening, I guess it isn't right now.

Anyone else have input about the status?

Thanks

[Dana Skallman]

I actually can make the call today, shall we try get on the phone and rehash a plan? 

We need to get a clear project timeline (more about aspects instead of time)

Look at creating a alternative currency API (time, local currencies, bitcoin and so on)

What are the project resources needed (developers, coordination & support)

Anything else that we could talk about?

[Devin Balkind]

Hi folks.  I've got some good news.  My friend Hans who developed giftflow.org has FINALLY "seen the light' and is open sourcing his code this week.  I'll send links out when it's finally done.

GiftFlow is a php/codeignighter with a bootstrap CSS framework which is what Drew used to build baseline.greeningneighorhoods.com so he's a pro with it.  Hans loves occupy so we could probably recruit him as well.  BEEx.org is also php/codeignighter so some of it's features could be incorporated as well.

I invite everyone to check out giftflow.org and see if it's close enough to PermaBank to meet our needs.  Two other open source gifting apps I just enountered are now listed here:

* [http://SharedEarth.net SharedEarth]

* [http://Kassi.eu Kassai]

--
Devin Balkind
@devinbalkind
vitamindwb.com

[elf Pavlik]

Excerpts from Devin Balkind's message of 2012-02-29 01:04:27 +0000:

> Hi folks. I've got some good news. My friend Hans who developed
> giftflow.org has FINALLY "seen the light' and is open sourcing his code
> this week. I'll send links out when it's finally done.
>
> GiftFlow is a php/codeignighter with a bootstrap CSS framework which is
> what Drew used to build baseline.greeningneighorhoods.com so he's a pro
> with it. Hans loves occupy so we could probably recruit him as well.
> BEEx.org is also php/codeignighter so some of it's features could be
> incorporated as well.
>
> I invite everyone to check out giftflow.org and see if it's close enough to
> PermaBank to meet our needs. Two other open source gifting apps I just
> enountered are now listed here:
>
> * [http://SharedEarth.net SharedEarth]
> * [http://Kassi.eu Kassai]
>

Yeah, I've heard from Hans about it already. In our last online chat he also have ponted me to this article about 'API for sharing': http://shareable.net/blog/an-api-for-sharing

Juho (author of this article) develops this open source (Ruby on Rails) app:
http://aalto.kassi.eu/en
https://github.com/sizzlelab/kassi

sidenote: I would look how to combine it with anothe (Ruby on Rails) app, to have non monetary fund raising capability:
http://catarse.me/en
https://github.com/danielweinmann/catarse

Ohe, and yesterday I've seen notification that Juho have joined Community I/O group, after my invite on API for sharing mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/group/api-for-sharing

Oh, I also connected on diaspora with Dan from SharedEarth.net =)
https://diasp.org/u/danimcgoo

Future looks very exciting!
=)
~ elf Pavlik ~

[David Judd]

All this looks great. I've been meaning at some point to look into existing software and haven't.

Given where we're at with our from-scratch app, starting with someone else's released code and developing from there seems like a way to take a lead forward and actually get people using something. It would make me a little sad to abandon the code we've been working on, but it might be the best option.

Evan - are you reading this? What do you think of these apps?

If we are going to switch to a new code base, and we can't stick with Django, I'd much rather be working with Ruby than PHP.

-David

[Georgiy Treyvus]

I second that. PHP is a mess. Ruby/Rails I had to learn before as part of a possible job lead. I'm better with that than PHP.

[Georgiy Treyvus]

more the ruby than the rails to be precise but will learn more rails as needed

[Dana Skallman]

This is awesome, thanks for sharing Devin & Elf! It is a bit easier to get something up working with existing code. And if Ruby is the preference, that's the route we should go. David, since you're the lead you should be able to decide that. Feature requests will likely come from the rest of us :) Also, there is a lot of PHP dev already in place, so it's good to mix it up.

Also, we have a Ruby server setup that can be used, just need to connect with Ed. I think Elf may have access too, but that's where BetterMeans, Dudle and Diaspora will go, we can definitely add that. If there is a way to help setup Diaspora with the SSO option we can use across all websites, that would be awesome :)

Let me know and I'll loop Ed in for server needs. 

[elf Pavlik]

Excerpts from Dana Skallman's message of 2012-02-29 20:08:38 +0000:

> Also, we have a Ruby server setup that can be used, just need to connect
> with Ed. I think Elf may have access too, but that's where BetterMeans,
> Dudle and Diaspora will go, we can definitely add that. If there is a way
> to help setup Diaspora with the SSO option we can use across all websites,
> that would be awesome :)

I don't have access to this server at this moment, you would need to arrange it for me. for the SSO i would look at fresh BrowserID from mozilla and WebID which guys from theglobalsquare most likely will use for thier system... but that makes another story.

[Dana Skallman]

Will loop you & David in with Ed. He's on the GS project, so should know what's going on. 

[David Judd]

Ok. I won't have time to get the Ruby stuff set up until this weekend at the earliest, and maybe not for another week after that, since I've been pretty busy with Civi. But once the newsletter is up and running I should have more time to go back to Permabank.

-David

[Evan Wagner]

Hello All,

Can someone please explain to me how all this integrates with the django/python platform we have built, if at all?

Solidarity,

Evan

--
Evan Wagner
reStorAtiVE
646.641.1772

[Evan Wagner]

Hold off on that- reading the articles now... ; )

[Devin Balkind]

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:14 AM, elf Pavlik <perpetua...@wwelves.org> wrote:

Excerpts from Devin Balkind's message of 2012-02-29 01:04:27 +0000:
> Hi folks.  I've got some good news.  My friend Hans who developed
> giftflow.org has FINALLY "seen the light' and is open sourcing his code
> this week.  I'll send links out when it's finally done.
>
> GiftFlow is a php/codeignighter with a bootstrap CSS framework which is
> what Drew used to build baseline.greeningneighorhoods.com so he's a pro
> with it.  Hans loves occupy so we could probably recruit him as well.
>  BEEx.org is also php/codeignighter so some of it's features could be
> incorporated as well.
>
> I invite everyone to check out giftflow.org and see if it's close enough to
> PermaBank to meet our needs.  Two other open source gifting apps I just
> enountered are now listed here:
>
> * [http://SharedEarth.net SharedEarth]
> * [http://Kassi.eu Kassai]
>

Yeah, I've heard from Hans about it already. In our last online chat he also have ponted me to this article about 'API for sharing': http://shareable.net/blog/an-api-for-sharing

We definitely need an API and build support for it's adoption among the top sharing focused websites.

 

Juho (author of this article) develops this open source (Ruby on Rails) app:
http://aalto.kassi.eu/en
https://github.com/sizzlelab/kassi

It's very simple.  I'm curious how extendable it is.

 

sidenote: I would look how to combine it with anothe (Ruby on Rails) app, to have non monetary fund raising capability:
http://catarse.me/en
https://github.com/danielweinmann/catarse

I wonder about the extendability of this software too.  I've been on their dev list for a while and it doesn't seem they have much open source community behind their code.

 

Ohe, and yesterday I've seen notification that Juho have joined Community I/O group, after my invite on API for sharing mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/group/api-for-sharing

Oh, I also connected on diaspora with Dan from SharedEarth.net =)
https://diasp.org/u/danimcgoo

I find this app particularly interesting.  Have folks here seen opensourcecurrency.org?

 

Future looks very exciting!
=)

With a plethora of software options, it seems to me we need to arrive at some criteria for picking a solution.  I feel like we could do a lot of this discussion at the March 11th strategy meeting.  

I don't have the skills neccissary to deploy these systems but if others do it'd be great to see how easy they are to deploy, check out some back ends, etc.  

Very exciting time indeed.

 

~ elf Pavlik ~

[Evan Wagner]

Hello All,

After reviewing all this info, these are my thoughts:

1.  The idea of developing a API that can engage with all the existing sharing platforms seems like the way to go.

2.  It seems to make sense to have global categories for types of sharing- e.g. gifting, timebanking, mutual credit systems, crowd [re]sourcing, local paper currencies- and have permabank be a clearing house for them.

3.  As such, each user would have a profile on permabank that shows activity across all these platforms, along with all the parallel functionality types that exist on permabank itself.

4.  It is key to remember that we, in OWS, have a very very extensive (and, at this point, somewhat underactivated) network of trust in place and growing.  Core constituency is fundamental to currency, so the OWS network is the real value here, and how that is built upon determines the success of permabank.  For example, my advocacy for permabank in the context of the big fundraising conversations happening right now is based on recognizing this opportunity.  I will be going to the Open Forum at Union Hall tomorrow to bring more of these ideas forward.  No offense y'all, but I think people 'in tech' tend to get silo'd in the process of tool-tinkering without paying attention to the real spaces in which they are applied, and there is an ELEPHANT in the room here with these larger fundraising issues being hotly debated.  Anybody with me??

I have no idea how the above affects the decision of whether we proceed in django/python...  Please advise.

Solidarity,

Evan

[elf Pavlik]

Excerpts from Evan Wagner's message of 2012-03-01 22:05:01 +0000:

> 1. The idea of developing a API that can engage with all the existing
> sharing platforms seems like the way to go.

existing (i would focus on FLOS platforms of course) and up comming deigned more in direction to coexist and create syntergies

> 2. It seems to make sense to have global categories for types of sharing-
> e.g. gifting, timebanking, mutual credit systems, crowd [re]sourcing, local
> paper currencies- and have permabank be a clearing house for them.

community working on Linked Data already laid down solid foudations for that, AFAIK globalsqure deves want to take advantage of it...

> 3. As such, each user would have a profile on permabank that shows
> activity across all these platforms, along with all the parallel
> functionality types that exist on permabank itself.

i would propose don't refer to people as 'users', i really like to *emphesise* more directions of participants, cohabitants, friends, collaborators etc.

>
> 4. It is key to remember that we, in OWS, have a very very extensive (and,
> at this point, somewhat underactivated) network of trust in place and
> growing. Core constituency is fundamental to currency, so the OWS network
> is the real value here, and how that is built upon determines the success
> of permabank. For example, my advocacy for permabank in the context of the
> big fundraising conversations happening right now is based on recognizing
> this opportunity. I will be going to the Open Forum at Union Hall tomorrow
> to bring more of these ideas forward. No offense y'all, but I think people
> 'in tech' tend to get silo'd in the process of tool-tinkering without

> paying attention to the real spaces in which they are applied, and there *is
> an ELEPHANT in the room *here with these larger fundraising issues being

> hotly debated. Anybody with me??

whayt do you mean refering to 'currency'? moneray artifacts 'tokens' or just more in direction of 'flows organization strategies'?
when it comes to 'foundraising' i would start simple and 'dog feed' it from beggining =) I we need come kind of infrastructure, support etc. we can ask directly for acctual resources and help... to put it simples having 'wishlists'...

>
> I have no idea how the above affects the decision of whether we proceed in
> django/python... Please advise.

here i would see it that broad community participates in developmennt of nodes playing various roles in the ecosystem, which have implementations in python, ruby, erlan, lua, javascript etc...

>
> Solidarity,
>
> Evan

In harmony
~ elf Pavlik ~

[David Judd]

I was thinking that we were still going to try to have a first release which met the original goals for Phase 1 of Permabank - a gifting system, Craigslist + accountability. It seems like using or forking one of the Ruby projects would be the right way to do that.

But maybe we want to take a step back and think about how we contribute something unique, which is some kind of integrated platform. I don't really have any idea what that would look like in practice though or how we would ask people in OWS to use it (who don't already use any of the things we'd be integrating).

-David

[Evan Wagner]

Comments Inline @elf @david

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:45 PM, David Judd <david....@gmail.com> wrote:

I was thinking that we were still going to try to have a first release which met the original goals for Phase 1 of Permabank - a gifting system, Craigslist + accountability. It seems like using or forking one of the Ruby projects would be the right way to do that.

After all this work?  I'd like to see us find a core dev and proceed with the python because of the longer term requirements of the application...

But maybe we want to take a step back and think about how we contribute something unique, which is some kind of integrated platform. I don't really have any idea what that would look like in practice though or how we would ask people in OWS to use it (who don't already use any of the things we'd be integrating).

Exactly what I mean.  ...and we just need to finish V1, so people can start building profiles- I'm taking care of the kitten herding, so don't worry about that!  

-David

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:18 PM, elf Pavlik <perpetua...@wwelves.org> wrote:

Excerpts from Evan Wagner's message of 2012-03-01 22:05:01 +0000:

> 1.  The idea of developing a API that can engage with all the existing
> sharing platforms seems like the way to go.

existing (i would focus on FLOS platforms of course) and up comming deigned more in direction to coexist and create syntergies

Agreed.

> 2.  It seems to make sense to have global categories for types of sharing-
> e.g. gifting, timebanking, mutual credit systems, crowd [re]sourcing, local
> paper currencies- and have permabank be a clearing house for them.

community working on Linked Data already laid down solid foudations for that, AFAIK globalsqure deves want to take advantage of it...

Nice.  Do you have more information you can point us too?

> 3.  As such, each user would have a profile on permabank that shows
> activity across all these platforms, along with all the parallel
> functionality types that exist on permabank itself.

i would propose don't refer to people as 'users', i really like to *emphesise* more directions of participants, cohabitants, friends, collaborators etc.

Agreed.

>
> 4.  It is key to remember that we, in OWS, have a very very extensive (and,
> at this point, somewhat underactivated) network of trust in place and
> growing.  Core constituency is fundamental to currency, so the OWS network
> is the real value here, and how that is built upon determines the success
> of permabank.  For example, my advocacy for permabank in the context of the
> big fundraising conversations happening right now is based on recognizing
> this opportunity.  I will be going to the Open Forum at Union Hall tomorrow
> to bring more of these ideas forward.  No offense y'all, but I think people
> 'in tech' tend to get silo'd in the process of tool-tinkering without

> paying attention to the real spaces in which they are applied, and there *is
> an ELEPHANT in the room *here with these larger fundraising issues being

> hotly debated.  Anybody with me??

whayt do you mean refering to 'currency'? moneray artifacts 'tokens'  or just more in direction of 'flows organization strategies'?
when it comes to 'foundraising' i would start simple and 'dog feed' it from beggining =) I we need come kind of infrastructure, support etc. we can ask directly for acctual resources and help... to put it simples having 'wishlists'...

Flow organization strategies- full spectrum from qualitative to quantitative.  What do you mean by "dog feed" ...and yes, making individual wishes seen.

>
> I have no idea how the above affects the decision of whether we proceed in
> django/python...  Please advise.

here i would see it that broad community participates in developmennt of nodes playing various roles in the ecosystem, which have implementations in python, ruby, erlan, lua, javascript etc...

beautiful eco-system of language!
 

>
> Solidarity,
>
> Evan

In harmony
~ elf Pavlik ~

[elf Pavlik]

Excerpts from Evan Wagner's message of 2012-03-02 18:07:34 +0000:

sorry, i mean't "eat our dog's food" so to use permabank for organizing resources for further development, possibly in paralel with you monetary found raising but trying to focus on gathering resources with permabank...