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Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?
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James E Keenan
Apr 9, 2016, 10:30:02 AM4/9/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
On 04/09/2016 09:06 AM, Neil Bowers wrote:
> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
>
[snip]
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential sponsors, we have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
>
> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon” and think something along the lines of:
>
> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy, in teams competing against each other.
>
I concede that the predominant use of the term "hackathon" these days is
a highly competitive event where teams compete against one another under
time pressure. That's true both within private companies and in cases
where, say, a government body open-sources its data and seeks new "apps".
Once again, Perl is different -- and that's not a difference that we
should relinquish. I count my participation in the Chicago hackathon
Andy and Pete organized in November 2006 as my entry point into real
collaboration with other members of the Perl community. All the
hackathons that I have participated in since then -- including at least
four which I have organized[1] -- have emphasized collaboration and
contributions to the Perl ecosphere rather than competition. None have
awarded prizes.
The Perl QA Hackathon is, admittedly, somewhat unique among Perl
hackathons in that it is an admittedly elite event where funds are
raised to bring together Perl experts from around the world to work in a
more focused way and to develop consensus around proposals for the
evolution of the Perl infrastructure. For that, you need, some serious
funds, probably in at least five figures.
Of the hackathons I myself have organized, only one needed donations in
any form other than the venue, and in that case the donor had a budget
for open-source contributions which had to be spent. We would have been
more than happy with just the venue, but the extra contributions did
enable us to provide transportation costs for five people from outside
our area to serve as hackathon mentors.
I think the larger question of "How do we raise money for Perl events
even when they don't conform to larger corporate or societal
expectations?" is a good one, and I thank Neil for kicking off the
discussion. But I share Kent's skepticism about alternative names as an
easy answer to that question.
Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan
[1] My earlier thoughts on hackathons:
"How to Get the Most Out of a Hackathon":
http://thenceforward.net/perl/yapc/YAPC-NA-2007/houslight/index.html
"Let's Have a Distributed Perl Hackathon":
http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2012/10/lets-have-a-distributed-perl-hackathon.html
"New York Perl Hackathon A Success":
http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2013/03/new-york-perl-hackathon-a-success.html
> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
>
[snip]
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential sponsors, we have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
>
> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon” and think something along the lines of:
>
> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy, in teams competing against each other.
>
I concede that the predominant use of the term "hackathon" these days is
a highly competitive event where teams compete against one another under
time pressure. That's true both within private companies and in cases
where, say, a government body open-sources its data and seeks new "apps".
Once again, Perl is different -- and that's not a difference that we
should relinquish. I count my participation in the Chicago hackathon
Andy and Pete organized in November 2006 as my entry point into real
collaboration with other members of the Perl community. All the
hackathons that I have participated in since then -- including at least
four which I have organized[1] -- have emphasized collaboration and
contributions to the Perl ecosphere rather than competition. None have
awarded prizes.
The Perl QA Hackathon is, admittedly, somewhat unique among Perl
hackathons in that it is an admittedly elite event where funds are
raised to bring together Perl experts from around the world to work in a
more focused way and to develop consensus around proposals for the
evolution of the Perl infrastructure. For that, you need, some serious
funds, probably in at least five figures.
Of the hackathons I myself have organized, only one needed donations in
any form other than the venue, and in that case the donor had a budget
for open-source contributions which had to be spent. We would have been
more than happy with just the venue, but the extra contributions did
enable us to provide transportation costs for five people from outside
our area to serve as hackathon mentors.
I think the larger question of "How do we raise money for Perl events
even when they don't conform to larger corporate or societal
expectations?" is a good one, and I thank Neil for kicking off the
discussion. But I share Kent's skepticism about alternative names as an
easy answer to that question.
Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan
[1] My earlier thoughts on hackathons:
"How to Get the Most Out of a Hackathon":
http://thenceforward.net/perl/yapc/YAPC-NA-2007/houslight/index.html
"Let's Have a Distributed Perl Hackathon":
http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2012/10/lets-have-a-distributed-perl-hackathon.html
"New York Perl Hackathon A Success":
http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2013/03/new-york-perl-hackathon-a-success.html
David Cantrell
Apr 9, 2016, 10:45:02 AM4/9/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
I think the word you're looking for is symposium. Although I think hackathon is just fine.
--
David Cantrell
This electrogram was despatched by wireless field telegraph. I would therefore ask that the recipient be so kind as to excuse any failures of courtesy or linguistic inelegance as an unfortunate side-effect of the technology.
--
David Cantrell
This electrogram was despatched by wireless field telegraph. I would therefore ask that the recipient be so kind as to excuse any failures of courtesy or linguistic inelegance as an unfortunate side-effect of the technology.
Aristotle Pagaltzis
Apr 18, 2016, 8:45:05 AM4/18/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
* Neil Bowers <neil....@cogendo.com> [2016-04-09 16:23]:
that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and
> the QAH is not one of those.
FWIW, in case it helps (probably not, but eh), the IETF runs hackathons
> the QAH is not one of those.
that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/
Aristotle Pagaltzis
Apr 18, 2016, 9:00:01 AM4/18/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
* Aristotle Pagaltzis <paga...@gmx.de> [2016-04-18 14:31]:
> FWIW, in case it helps (probably not, but eh), the IETF runs hackathons
> that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
> https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/
No they don’t. I misread the whole thing, ugh. Sorry for the noise.
> that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
> https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/
Salve J Nilsen
Apr 19, 2016, 6:45:01 AM4/19/16
to Neil Bowers, cpan-workers
Hey folks,
Since I'm the guy that actually named the QA hackathon originally, I'll take
the liberty to share my thoughts on the matter. I hope You don't mind. :)
"The Perl QA Hackathon" was originally named after the IRC channel: "The
#perl-qa hackathon". If you guys want to change the name (which I think you
are completely entitled to do, and probably is a good idea), maybe it's worth
considering the IRC channel roots of the name?
In any case, I'd like to offer "The Perl QA Summit" as an alterntive to
consider. Sure, the "hackathon" term has changed it's meaning over the years,
but I've always liked the Perl community's take on it much more than the
prize-infused hacking competitions that others mean when they use the word.
As for "QA", I'm still a fan of the term, since I've always hoped that the
gathering could be a place for gathering anyone who cares about any part of
the Perl ecosystem – not just "toolchain" or "infrastructure" but also how the
Perl community interfaces with other communities.
And as for "Summit". Yes. That's a wonderful term, and spot on for this event.
Hm.... <thinking_aloud>"Perl Ecosystem Summit"</thinking_aloud>...
Well, good luck figuring out this topic! Wish I could join you in Rugby, and
I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th
anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested in
seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)
'nuff rambling for now. I whish you the best for the hackathon. :)
- Salve
Neil Bowers said:
>
> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
> Should we rename this event?
>
> Eg to “Perl QA Workshop”, or something like that.
>
> Producing the number of sponsors we have requires contacting an awful lot
> more companies and organisations, and I wonder how many of them skim it and
> think:
>
> So they want some money to get together for a hackathon?
>
> We don’t support hackathons.
>
>
> And then don’t bother replying. Or just reply with a “no”, which obviously
> we have to respect.
>
> On the flip side, it’s an established name, which is being held for the 9th
> time this year.
>
> I’m not saying “we must change the name!", but think we should consider it.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
--
#!/usr/bin/env perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$"="'};&{'";@_=unpack("C*",unpack("u*",':50,$'.# <s...@foo.no>
'3!=0"59,6!`%%P\0!1)46%!F.Q`%01,`'."\n"));eval "&{'@_'}"; __END__ is near! :)
Since I'm the guy that actually named the QA hackathon originally, I'll take
the liberty to share my thoughts on the matter. I hope You don't mind. :)
"The Perl QA Hackathon" was originally named after the IRC channel: "The
#perl-qa hackathon". If you guys want to change the name (which I think you
are completely entitled to do, and probably is a good idea), maybe it's worth
considering the IRC channel roots of the name?
In any case, I'd like to offer "The Perl QA Summit" as an alterntive to
consider. Sure, the "hackathon" term has changed it's meaning over the years,
but I've always liked the Perl community's take on it much more than the
prize-infused hacking competitions that others mean when they use the word.
As for "QA", I'm still a fan of the term, since I've always hoped that the
gathering could be a place for gathering anyone who cares about any part of
the Perl ecosystem – not just "toolchain" or "infrastructure" but also how the
Perl community interfaces with other communities.
And as for "Summit". Yes. That's a wonderful term, and spot on for this event.
Hm.... <thinking_aloud>"Perl Ecosystem Summit"</thinking_aloud>...
Well, good luck figuring out this topic! Wish I could join you in Rugby, and
I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th
anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested in
seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)
'nuff rambling for now. I whish you the best for the hackathon. :)
- Salve
Neil Bowers said:
>
> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
>
> Eg to “Perl QA Workshop”, or something like that.
>
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the
> QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential sponsors, we
> have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the
> attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining
> “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
>
> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon”
> and think something along the lines of:
>
> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy,
> in teams competing against each other.
>
>
> Uh, no.
> have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the
> attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining
> “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
>
> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon”
> and think something along the lines of:
>
> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy,
> in teams competing against each other.
>
>
>
> Producing the number of sponsors we have requires contacting an awful lot
> more companies and organisations, and I wonder how many of them skim it and
> think:
>
> So they want some money to get together for a hackathon?
>
> We don’t support hackathons.
>
>
> And then don’t bother replying. Or just reply with a “no”, which obviously
> we have to respect.
>
> On the flip side, it’s an established name, which is being held for the 9th
> time this year.
>
> I’m not saying “we must change the name!", but think we should consider it.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
--
#!/usr/bin/env perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$"="'};&{'";@_=unpack("C*",unpack("u*",':50,$'.# <s...@foo.no>
'3!=0"59,6!`%%P\0!1)46%!F.Q`%01,`'."\n"));eval "&{'@_'}"; __END__ is near! :)
Aristotle Pagaltzis
Apr 20, 2016, 3:45:03 PM4/20/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
* Salve J Nilsen <s...@pvv.org> [2016-04-19 14:06]:
Annual Perl Ecosystem Summit would be the APES. But maybe that is
actually good?
> Hm.... <thinking_aloud>"Perl Ecosystem Summit"</thinking_aloud>...
I thought of that myself and ended up not proposing it because the
Annual Perl Ecosystem Summit would be the APES. But maybe that is
actually good?
Peter Rabbitson
Apr 20, 2016, 4:00:02 PM4/20/16
to cpan-w...@perl.org
Perl
Essential
Networking and
Infrastructure
Symposium
Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
Apr 26, 2016, 10:15:02 AM4/26/16
to Salve J Nilsen, Neil Bowers, cpan-workers
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:33:31PM +0200, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
>
> I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th
> anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested
> in seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)
For the record, I've been thinking about proposing to hold it in Lyon
>
> I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th
> anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested
> in seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)
again in 2017.
I look forward to seeing the summary of all the feedback Neil has been
gathering from the participants, as I'm quite certain it will give the
next organisers many useful clue for organising a very successful event.
--
Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
To flaunt your strength is to make it your weakness.
(Moral from Groo The Wanderer #25 (Epic))
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