WYNN-WILLIAMS, David Rudyerd (d 2019)

[colinp]

From the Daily Telegraph 21 September 2019 - WYNN-WILLIAMS - David Rudyerd, passed away peacefully on Thursday 12th September, aged 85 years. Dearly loved husband of Susie, loving father of Virginia and Alison, stepfather of Charles and Sian, and grandfather of five. Private cremation followed by a Service of Thanksgiving and Celebration of his life at the Church of St Martin's of Tours, Martinstown, Dorset on Tuesday 1st October 2019 at 12.30 p.m. to which all family and friends are warmly invited. Family flowers only. Donations to Dorset County Hospital Charity for the benefit of the Robert White Cancer Unit, and the RNLI may be sent c/o Grassby Funeral Service, 8 Princes Street, Dorchester DT1 1TW. Tel: 01305 262338, or made online at www.grassby-funeral.co.uk Please make cheques payable to “Funeral Donations Account”.

He was the father in law of the recently deceased 10th Duke of Roxburghe

[Harry Merritt]

Would welcome "the full G. Willis" on this one, including whether the Wynn-Williamses are related to the Williams-Wynns and Williams-Wynnes.

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 4:28 PM colinp <colina...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From the Daily Telegraph 21 September 2019 - WYNN-WILLIAMS - David Rudyerd, passed away peacefully on Thursday 12th September, aged 85 years. Dearly loved husband of Susie, loving father of Virginia and Alison, stepfather of Charles and Sian, and grandfather of five. Private cremation followed by a Service of Thanksgiving and Celebration of his life at the Church of St Martin's of Tours, Martinstown, Dorset on Tuesday 1st October 2019 at 12.30 p.m. to which all family and friends are warmly invited. Family flowers only. Donations to Dorset County Hospital Charity for the benefit of the Robert White Cancer Unit, and the RNLI may be sent c/o Grassby Funeral Service, 8 Princes Street, Dorchester DT1 1TW. Tel: 01305 262338, or made online at www.grassby-funeral.co.uk Please make cheques payable to “Funeral Donations Account”.

He was the father in law of the recently deceased 10th Duke of Roxburghe

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Peerage News" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to peerage-news...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/peerage-news/1b259d07-cca2-48dd-ab21-6542023cb8da%40googlegroups.com.

[G. Willis]

Haha, you must be psychic, Harry! I'm at this very moment typing up my findings in another window; should be up shortly.

[G. Willis]

Some notes on the Wynn-Williams family:

At 'Peerage News', Michael Rhodes gives David Wynn-Williams's parents as Derwas Douglas Wynn Wynn-Williams and Marjorie B. (née Cox); company records show Derwas to be b. 1907 [1998 death record], and of 10, Boulters Court, Maidenhead, Berks. Their marriage took place in 1930 per records. A son Derwas was b. 1931, followed by David (as above), Robert N. (b. 1936) and Timothy J. (b. 1944).

The Who's Who in Wales 1921 entry for novelist Neil Wynn[-]Williams gives:

WYNN-WILLIAMS, Neil Wynn (assumed name of Wynn as part of surname by Poll Deed); Novelist; b. Hampstead; descended on the paternal side from Williams of Peniarth Ucha; Rudyard, of Rudyard; maternal side: Lambert, of Castle Lambert; The Ducal House of Argyll; married, and has issue- Neil Rudyard Wynn and Derwas Douglas Wynn. W.A. Served with 1st Beds. Volunteer Regt. Address- The Moat House, Bedford. [note the spelling of 'Rudyerd/ Rudyard']

Neil Wynn-Williams's probate record gives the same address as above, and indicates Derwas Wynn-Williams to have been a 'bank official' (alongside his elder brother Neil Rudyard, as above, a 'surgeon').

Thepeerage.com cites communication from a David Gardiner which gives a good amount of detail of this family (corroborated as follows); here Neil Wynn Williams is shown to be son of Wynn William Rudyard Williams and Elizabeth Blackwell Campbell, dau. of Col Richard Lambert, of Lyston Hall, Essex and of Errislannan Manor, co. Galway, surgeon, Royal Artillery, and his wife Elizabeth Louisa, dau. of John Campbell, of Lyston Hall, Accountant-General of the Court of Chancery [this- the veracity of which I have not ascertained- being presumably the origin of the claim of descent from the 'Ducal House of Argyll']. There is an 1851 Cheltenham marriage record between W. W. R. Williams and Elizabeth B. C. Lambert. I don't see 'Campbell' or 'Lambert' of Lyston Hall in BFI, but there is a Campbell Lambert of Burlton Hall in BLG 1969, which might be this family. There are several sources for Campbells at Liston (spelled variously, apparently, as shown in the following quotation); White's Directory 1848 gives: 'A small parish on the southern side of the Stour opposite Long Melford and three miles from Sudbury... Liston Hall is a fine red brick Mansion in a beautiful park belongs to Richard Lambert Esq. , but is at present occupied only by servants. It was built about fifty years ago by the Hon. William Campbell, brother of the Duke of Argyll. Lyston, Leyston and Lisson.' Given that a search for this place indicates it to be Liston, Essex, and the above mentions both the Lamberts and Campbell Argyll connection, this can be considered fairly conclusive.

Per several records alongside other sources, W. W. R. Williams (often spelling the third name 'Rudyard') was b. 1823, d. 1904. His christening record, at Holborn, spells it 'Rudyerd' (which would seem, given his descendant above, to be the correct spelling; I don't know what 'Rudyard of Rudyard' indicates in terms of family, they aren't in BFI at least), and gives his parents as Robert Vaughan Wynne Williams and Mary Ann Williams. This matches David Gardiner's contribution at thepeerage, where Mary Ann was née Akred, and R. V. W. Williams's second wife. Here, R. V. W. Williams's third name lacks the 'e', which given the variability of such a name I consider unlikely to be meaningful either way; his son appears both with and without the 'e' in christening records. An 1821 marriage record exists for them. His 1862 death record shows him to have been b. 1799 [Find A Grave gives 26 Oct. 1798 presumably based on the gravestone, so is likely correct].

Thepeerage has R. V. W. Williams as born at Peniarth Ucha, which matches Neil Wynn-Williams's 1921 'Who's Who in Wales' entry quoted above. BFI has nothing for 'Wynn-Williams' or 'Williams of Peniarth Ucha', but gives a BLG 1952 entry for 'Williams-Wynne of Peniarth', giving further '(see also Williams-Wynn)'. There are no other families of that name aside from the baronets (more details below), which helpfully narrows things down.

There is a baptismal record dated 28 Oct. 1798 (given the birth date above, this removes any doubt I think) for 'Robt Vaughen Wynne Williams' at Beaumaris, Anglesey. It's perhaps worth noting that Anglesey isn't particularly close to (albeit neither massively far from) Peniarth, which per BLG 1952 is at 'Towyn, Merioneth'. Of course in the span of two days it's hardly impossible they travelled the distance! David Gardiner has his father as John Williams, and his mother as Gaynor Thomas. There is a 1784 marriage record for two people of these names, at Llanbeblig, Caernarvons. It's perhaps worth pointing out, given the name 'Robert Vaughan Wynn[e] Williams, the relationship between the antiquary Robert Vaughan and his descendants, 'the Wynne family of Peniarth', of which his Wikipedia article gives an outline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Vaughan_(antiquary), this cited source being also of interest: https://biography.wales/article/s-WYNN-PEN-1275

Looking at the BLG 1952 entry for Williams-Wynne of Peniarth, the head is Lt-Col John Francis Williams-Wynne, D.S.O., of whom it is stated: 'Lt-Col Williams-Wynne is the great-great-great-great-grandson of Sir William Williams, 2nd Bt (see BURKE'S Peerage, WILLIAMS-WYNN, Bt), whose yr. brother, John Williams, Barrister-at-law, was the father of Edward Williams, whose dau. and heir, Jane, m. William Wynne, of Wern (see below)'. This establishes the relation between the Peniarth and baronetical families; the trouble arises in identifying a definite link origin for John Williams, father of R. V. W. Williams. It's worth mentioning that, aside from the Williams/ Wynn[e] relationship quoted above from BLG 1952, the 2nd baronet's own wife, Jane Thelwall, was great-granddaughter of Sir John Wynn, 1st Baronet; the two names additionally join in the parents of William Wynne, of Wern, another William Wynne, also of Wern, and Ellinor, daughter of Rev. Griffith Williams, of Llandegwning and Aberkin, Caernarvons.

The ancestry of David Rudyerd Wynn-Williams up to John Williams and Gaynor Thomas seems fairly solidly established; I'm afraid with the resources I have to hand it's not possible for me to definitively state a relationship with the landed Williams-Wynne family of Peniarth (and thus the Williams-Wynn baronets), but given the Peniarth connection it's certainly very possible, if not to say extremely likely.