DE LA RUE, Sir Andrew George Ilay 4th Bt (1946-2020)

[Richard R]

From the Telegraph of 8 April 2020: DE LA RUE Sir Andrew de la Rue Bt. died on the 5th April 2020, aged 74. Husband to Tessa, father to Edward and Harry and grandfather to Hector and Wilfred. A private funeral will be held.

He was s of Sir Eric Vincent DE LA RUE 3rd Bt (1906-89) and his 1st w Cecilia Lenella Beva (d 1963) d of Maj Walter WARING of Lennel, Coldstream, Berwickshire. He m 1984 (Teresa Ann) Tessa (b Sept 1955 reg Q4 Notts) d of David Francis Thomas Rochford DOBSON (1924-2012) of Stragglethorpe Grange, Brant Broughton, Lincolnshire by his 1952 m (reg Q3 Notts) to Phyllis June (1929-2003, d of John Exham VINCENT (c1890-1945) by his 1926 m (reg Q3 Yorks) to Phyllis Hope WILKINSON (c1890-1945)), and had two sons. His elder son succeeds him:

[Sir] Edward Walter Henry DE LA RUE [5th Bt] (b 1986) has yet to establish his claim.

BROTHER LIVING
Harry William John DE LA RUE (b 1989)

NOTE: Sir Andrew's death notice mentions two grandsons, HECTOR and WILFRED. It's not clear where they fit in here.

[Baronetcy Lady]

There's an engagement notice in the Tel 1 September 2017, for Edward to Henrietta Roger-Smith.  This is also announced on the Ampleforth Soc page https://www.ampleforth.org.uk/society/announcements/marriages/marriages-2017

From this it seems likely that Hector and Wilfred are the sons of the new bart and his wife.  

[Richard R]

Great build, many thks!

[colinp]

From Ivana’s post on nobiliana.de 7 April 2018


Edward de la Rue & Henrietta Roger-Smith plan to marry on 9 June 2018.

Source: weddingpresentco.com

[Richard R]

Thanks. Might this suggest the two grandsons aren't both from this marriage (ie the 4th Bt's younger son may be responsible for one of them)?

[dpth...@gmail.com]

William Montagu Hay, 10th Marquess of Tweeddale (29 Jan 1826-25 Nov 1911); m.18 May 1878 Candida Louise Bartolucci (d.14 Feb 1925)

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Lady Susan Elizabeth Clementine Hay (9 Aug 1879-15 Feb 1964); m.4 Nov 1901 Walter Waring (d.16 Nov 1930)

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Cecilia Lenella Beva Waring (1913-17 Mar 1963); m.1945 Sir Eric Vincent de la Rue, 3rd Bt. (5 Aug 1906-1988)

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Sir Andrew George Ilay de la Rue, 4th Bt. (3 Feb 1946-5 Apr 2020); m.1984 Tessa Ann Dobson

[bx...@yahoo.com]

The question then becomes are the grandsons in the line of succession or is the brother the hp?

If anyone has any information, that would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Brooke

[colinp]

The two grandsons could be twins

[Henry W]

I have tracked down Lady de la Rue, wife of the new baronet, on social media (she is using the de la Rue surname). There is a posting on there of a twin buggy with two infants inside - both draped in traditional blue for boys. It is dated 2 January 2020, so I would suggest that the named grandsons are twin sons of the new baronet, and based on the intended wedding date in June 2018 I believe they are in remainder.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry W, excellent detective work!

Now, the only question is which one is older.

Guess we might see that with the next update on the baronetage website.

Brooke

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 2:56:54 AM UTC-4, Richard R wrote:

[Richard R]

Death notices usually list children in date of birth order (ie Edward came before Harry in their father's announcement. On that basis we could conclude Hector was the first born twin. Not conclusive but a good pointer which requires concrete confirmation.

[G. Willis]

Some details of the Roger-Smith family:

Company records show an Edward Mervyn Roger-Smith, b. 1941, as of Priory Farm, Alton, Hants.; electoral roll records show Edward M. Roger-Smith as in the same household as Alexandra R. and Henrietta E., alongside other children.

Given the 1988 birth record for Henrietta Elizabeth Roger-Smith, mother "Chouffot" (alongside those of her elder brother and three sisters, corroborating the electoral roll etc), the 1971 marriage of Edward "H." Roger-Smith and Sandra R. Chouffot would appear to be the correct one ("Sandra" of course being a commonly-encountered version of "Alexandra", if odd to see on a marriage record; perhaps the former is her actual name and the latter a variant she prefers).

No birth record for an Edward M. Roger-Smith (nor Edward M. R. Smith, or even a likely Edward M. Smith). A family of the name appears in Ruvigny's Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal, following the descent of Dorothy Eugenia Woodd who m. 1900, Hugh Roubiliac Roger-Smith, M.D., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.; their two sons were Raymond and Basil; the latter's details can be found here- https://www.chch.ox.ac.uk/fallen-alumni/captain-basil-hugh-roger-smith ; corroboration of the birth of his son discounts Edward M. Roger-Smith. Raymond seemed a likely option, but his death in 1942 in Natal, South Africa and corresponding (very limited) probate record indicated him to have been a bachelor. I had thought that the possibility of a South African birth for E. M. Roger-Smith would neatly explain matters, but clearly not!

Per records, Hugh Roubiliac Roger-Smith was b. 1867 at Lewisham; the birth record gives only "Smith", the 1900 marriage record giving both "Hugh Roubiliac Roger-Smith" and "Hugh Roubiliac R. Smith". The 1891 census has Hugh R. Smith, medical student, b. Kent, in the household of "Ravens Croft" (sic?) E. Smith (1860-), architect, and Edith Smith, along with a visitor and three servants.

A search of architects gives Ravenscroft Elsey Smith b. 1859 d. 1930 as s. of Prof. Thomas Roger Smith (1830-1903), and in business with his father as well as Professor of Architecture at King's College London and University College London.

I have to leave this here for now, but can try and pin down E. M. Roger-Smith later. On the current evidence, I'd imagine he descends from Thomas Roger Smith, if possibly of a different line from that of R. E. Smith.

[G. Willis]

The London Gazette of 16th Jan. 1975 lists the 1974 death of George Roger ["otherwise Roger George"] Smith, of Laybrook Farm, Thakeham, Sussex, retired fruit farmer; his representatives are given as Edward Mervyn Smith, Althea Merle Gifford and Sarah Hildred Gay Roger Smith. This corresponds to the 1974 Worthing, Sussex death record of George Roger Smith, b. 1903. Interestingly the compound surname "Roger Smith" is indicated to have been in use by his daughter, Sarah, but not his son. Sarah Roger Smith appears in company records as Sarah Hildred Gay Dunsdon, having married in 1981, John Dunsdon, owner of the Coldunell property company; several online references to the links between these families exist, indicating her to have been a prizewinning showjumper, her sister, Althea, who in 1969 married the jockey Josh Gifford, also having been an accomplished horsewoman (see https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/feb/14/horseracing.colinfleetwoodjones etc).

The Victoria History of Sussex mentions that Laybrook was divided in 1968; 30 acres and the farmhouse sold to J. T. Gifford in 1969 (the name surely not a coincidence, given the relation between the two families as above), and "the house and 2 1/2 acres were sold in 1971 to R. G. Smith "(d. 1974), whose heirs sold the estate to Mrs. M. Shippam in 1977."

Births of an Althea M. (1943) and Sarah H. G. (1949, as per company records) Smith to mother "Cooke"; Roger G. Smith m. 1940, Meryl J. Cooke. A Meryl June Roger Smith b. 1916 d. 1998, at Worthing, Sussex.

Birth of a Roger George Smith at Worcester in 1903; it seems his change to "George Roger Smith" was to facilitate the compound surname, but this isn't completely clear; nevertheless, his birth record, marriage record, and the Victoria History refer to him as Roger George or R. G. Smith, but his death record and the London Gazette place it the other way around ("otherwise" Roger George implies the other formulation was more commonly used). If this be the correct Roger George Smith (there being no other options, it must be said), he appears in the 1911 census in the Worcester household of George (1865-) and Ellen (1868-) Smith, his father a farmer. Here also are younger brother, Owen Mylton Smith (1905-), two servants, and a governess.

Several George Smiths b. Worcester around 1865; nothing evident to link to the Roger-Smith family mentioned in my previous post. Prof. Thomas Roger Smith from that family was b. 1830 at Sheffield to Thomas and Louisa Smith; George Smith as above was born at Worcester, but of course it's not impossible- if somewhat unlikely- that there was a connection.

[G. Willis]

A tangential point, but one I felt shouldn't be left uncorrected-

"Owen Mylton Smith" per 1911 census actually Owen Mytton Smith (1905/6 [birth registered Mar 1906] -1970), of [per probate] 11, High Street, Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbys., a solicitor (partner, Bennett, Smith & Green, at Chapel-en-le-Frith, Whaley Bridge, and Glossop, Derbys.) and magistrates' clerk "for the Chapel, Glossop and New Mills benches" per the obituary in The Solicitors' Journal, Clerk to the Chapel-en-le-Frith Petty Sessional Division 1937-, int. al. Per the London Gazette, a 2nd Lt, R.A. in 1941. He m. 1939, Mary Macbain [per a myheritage source, b. 1913, d. 1993, dau. of William Macbain]; three sons, one dau., all b. Chapel-en-le-Frith; one son, Peter William Mytton Smith, also a solicitor.

Two probate records here- http://www.haine.org.uk/toms_wills/wills_grantees.php?parish=Worcester- (details of which I don't have, but presumably their parents?) gives representatives as "Roger George Smith farmer and Owen Mytton Smith solicitor", which corroborates the above. A George Smith b. 1865 d. 1935 at Worthing, Sussex (where the family were based later, so a possibility), but couldn't locate probate record to confirm this as their father.

[G. Willis]

Also- the 1911 census gives Ellen Smith as b. c. 1868, at Severn Stoke, Worcs.; the 1868 christening is recorded of Ellen Mytton, dau. of William and Sarah Mytton, at that place, but I couldn't find a George Smith/ Ellen Mytton marriage previously on FamilySearch [but did, subsequently, on FreeBMD, at Upton, Worcs., June 1902] so didn't pursue this information. Per census records, William Mytton (b. 1822, Great Comberton, Worcs.; someone of the name christened there 1821, s. of Edward and Eliza Mytton) was a farmer. No immediately evident connection to any of the families in BFI of that name, which were of Shropshire with a branch based in Montgomeryshire.

EDIT: The death of this Ellen Smith was in 1934, the probate record for that individual giving: "SMITH Ellen of Barneshall Farm, St Peter the Great, Worcestershire (wife of George Smith) died 19 March 1934... to Roger George Smith farmer and Owen Mytton Smith solicitor". Evidently this was one of the two probate records mentioned in my last post, the other (presumably) being that of her husband. I finally located George Smith's probate record also, he having died in 1943: "SMITH, George of Barnes Hall Farm, Worcester, died 24 December 1943... to Roger George Smith farmer and Owen Mytton Smith solicitor".

[G. Willis]

One- hopefully final(!)- addition: the memorial stands in St Gregory's churchyard, Castlemorton, Worcs. of George Smith, of Barnes Hall, who d. 1892 aet 58, very likely given the dates the father of George Smith (1865-1943) as in previous posts.

Per the 1871 census, George Smith b. 1865, St Peter's, Worcester [matching the 1911 census], second son in the St Peter's, Worcester household [n.b.- Barnes Hall Farm also in the parish of St Peter, per Ellen Smith's probate record] of George and Mary Smith. George senior, a farmer, b. 1834 at "Castlemoreton", which fits with the above memorial details; therefore the christening record for George Smith 25 Sep. 1864 at Worcester, parents George and Mary Smith, is probably that of their son. The family is clearly somewhat wealthy, employing a governess and three servants.

[colinp]

Sir Edward Henry Walter DE LA RUE [note names order] is now entered on the Official Roll of the Baronetage as the 5th Baronet de la Rue of Cadogan Square

[colinp]

The twin sons of the present Baronet are Hector George E and Wilfred Arthur V, births both regd Q2/2019 Leicester

[Patricia Light]

Sir Edward de la Rue 5th Bt & Henrietta Roger-Smith also have a daughter : HERO PEPALI DE LA RUE B.2022 GRO Reg Q2 NOTTINGHAM (mother's name ROGER-SMITH) - NOT IN DPB