The Oldest Extant French Dukedom & French Peerage Questions

[marquess]

It seems that in the French title system with the exception of a few  counts, (Dillon etc) dukedoms are really what seem to count. Looking at Wikipedia the other day I noted that the oldest French Dukedom seems to be Uzes (1572) are there any older extant dukedoms than this? How many French dukedoms are there altogether? Also which is the last French  dukedom to to be created that is still extant? Could it be Magenta? I have also noted that some heirs to French dukedoms are styled prince, when there is such a title attached and some are even styled by a junior dukedom, is there any correct form? Finally  are there any instances of any French man actually being created a marquis as a title on its own, rather than simply assuming it?

[sarac...@googlemail.com]

I think you will find the extant but 'contested' Hamilton family's
Franco-Scottish duchy of Chatellerault(1548/9) - presently split
between the heir-male(the Duke of Abercorn) and the heir-general/
presumptive(the Duke of Hamilton) - predated Uzes,unless Wikipedia are
going by the 1864 Napoleonic decree for Chatellerault.

[Turenne]

On Monday, March 5, 2012 2:51:49 PM UTC, sarac...@googlemail.com wrote:

I think you will find the extant but 'contested' Hamilton family's
Franco-Scottish duchy of Chatellerault(1548/9) - presently split
between the heir-male(the Duke of Abercorn) and the heir-general/
presumptive(the Duke of Hamilton) - predated Uzes,unless Wikipedia are
going by the 1864 Napoleonic decree for Chatellerault.

Francois Velde covers the current situation regarding the duchy of Chatellherault very cogently here:

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/scotfr.htm#arran 

The oldest dukedom (cr. 1565) as mentioned by marquess above, is indeed Uzes, followed, I think by Montbazon and Luynes (cr. 1619).

Magenta is the last extant dukedom to be created (1859), though two, Persigny and Moray were created since then (1863) but are now extinct.

RL

[marquess]

Thanks Velde's sight is very informative!

[marquess]

PS any answer as to the marquis part of my original question?

[Turenne]

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:09:40 AM UTC, marquess wrote:

PS any answer as to the marquis part of my original question?

As you are no doubt aware, there are no courtesy titles in France.

The title of prince fall into five categories: Prince du Sang = A Prince of the Blood (self explanatory); Foreign Princes = rulers of foreign houses who were permitted to be referred to as 'prince' e.g. Lorraine, Bouillon; Feudal Titles = where the title was deemed to be allodial i.e. the title constitutes ownership of real property (land, buildings and fixtures) that is independent of any superior landlord e.g. Chalais, Talmont; Border Principalities = e.g. Monaco and Created Titles = e.g. Tingry and Soubise. 

There is no rule as to when an individual would use the princely title, it would normally depend on family custom.

Yes, the title marquis was conferred (from 1505), but was often people with several titles would confer the title of 'marquis' on themselves. The Marquis de Sade was a count. Don't forget that a created title is nothing but a fief which the king has given a special status, thus for Mme Scarron to become a marquise, her property of Maintenon was raised to a marquisate. 

That said; Louis XIV did create some titles without fiefs.

Needless to say; I have over-simplified matters, but I hope the above is reasonably clear..

RL