Chuchill's 'dukedom'

[Richard R]

In the final volume of his mammoth and authoritative biography of Sir
Winston Churchill (volume 8, published 1988), Martin Gilbert gives a
fascinating insight into discussions of a possible dukedom for the
great statesman. The following are brief extracts from the volume.

[At the time of his retirement in 1955] .... One further problem
remained to be resolved between Churchill's farewell dinner on April 4
and his resignation. This was the question of whether or not he would
be offered a dukedom. His Audience of the Queen had been arranged for
April 5. As Jock Colville recalled ten years later, it was he,
Colville, who had suggested to Sir Michael Adeane that, in Colville's
words:

"... when the the Prime Minister resigned, since he was quite
different from any other Prime Minister, it would be quite appropriate
if he were offered a dukedom. To which the reply was that no more
dukedoms would ever be given except to Royal personages. However it
did seem appropriate. Could I give the undertaking that the Prime
Minister would refuse it?
I said I would take some soundings. So on the next possible occasion
I asked Sir Winston what would happen if when he resigned the Queen
were to offer him a dukedom? To which he said nothing would induce him
to accept it. First of all what could he be Duke of? Secondly even if
he were Duke of Westerham, what would Randolph be? He could only be
Marquis [sic] of Puddleduck Lane which was the only other possession
he had apart from Chartwell. And thirdly, and quite seriously, he
wished to die in the House of Commons as Winston Churchill. He
therefore told me that even if this unlikely event came to pass he
would certainly decline it.
I rushed to the telephone and rang up Sir Michael Adeane and said
that he could safely tell the Queen the dukedom could be offered.
Accordingly when Sir Winston went to Buckingham Palace on 5 April
1955, to resign, the dukedom was duly offered.
I was greatly disturbed because as I saw the Prime Minister going
off in his frock coat and his top hat and knowing as I did that he was
madly in love with the Queen - and this was clear from the fact that
his audiences had been dragged out longer and longer as the months
went by and very often took an hour and a half, at which I may say
racing was not the only topic discussed, - I was rather alarmed that
sentimental feelings might indeed make him accept at the last moment.
In which case I knew that both the Queen and Sir Michael would be very
angry with me for having given this pledge.
When he returned from his audiencee the first thing I said to him as
we sat in the Cabinet room was 'How did it go?' With tears in his eyes
he said 'Do you know, the most remarkable thing - she offered to make
me a Duke.'
With trepidation I asked what he had said. 'Well you know, I very
nearly accepted, I was so moved by her beauty and her charm and the
kindness with which she made this offer, that for a moment I thought
of accepting. But finally I remembered that I must die as I have
always been - Winston Churchill. And so I asked her to forgive my not
accepting it. And do you know, it's an odd thing, but she seemed
almost relieved.' " [pp1123-24]

Earlier in the volume [p702 et seq] there's discussion of the
possibility of Churchill stepping down in 1952, following a period of
ill-health, and going to the Lords, possibly remaining as Prime
Minister until at least after the Coronation in 1953. A conversation
which included the then Marquess of Salisbury and Lord Moran quotes
Jock Colville as saying "He [Churchill] won't do it" he said gloomily.
"I did once suggest to him that he should go to the Lords, and thought
at first he was taking it seriously, when he said: 'I should have to
be the Duke of Chartwell, and Randolph would be the Marquis [sic] of
Toodledo.' I saw that he was laughing at me." Salisbury, ruefully:
"No, I am afraid he regards us in the Lords as a rather disreputable
collection of old gentlemen."

Finally, even earlier in the same volume [p327 & n4] Gilbert writes:
Intent on extending his farming activities, on May 23 [1947] Churchill
bought Bardogs Farm, Toy's Hill, adjacent to Chartwell Farm, for
£8,700. It was 94 acres in extent, with a farmhouse, outbuildings and
two cottages, and a further 25.5 acres rented out at £30 a year in
yearly tenancies. [Footnote after this text: ... Churchill later told
Leslie Graham-Dixon, in a discussion of a possible Dukedom: 'Duke of
Bardogs would sound well, and Randolph could be Marquess of
Chartwell.']
- end of extract -

All this shows how lightly Churchill regarded the possibility that he
would ever succumb to a dukedom. How many of this group would feel the
same in a similar position? [That's a rhetorical question, as I know
how most of you would answer!]

[Turenne]

As you no doubt know, several individuals have turned down dukedoms
viz; two Lansdownes (couldn't afford to maintain the cost of the
lifestyle); Salisbury (ditto) and Disraeli. I feel that Churchill's
reasons for declining a dukedom were either 1) To stop Randolph
inheriting it 2) To allow Randolph a political career 3) Because
neither he nor his heirs would be able to afford it 4) None of the
above....

I'd love a dukedom even though I can't afford to maintain one.....Duke
of Newcastle-upon-Tyne would suit.

Richard

[Richard R]

Nowadays of course dukes can live very cheaply, viz Leinster.

[marquess]

Yes they are not quite what they were, I might have turned one down
and accepted the marquisate part instead, marquess of Liskard, Earl
Pendragon, and Viscount Blackheath.

[marquess]

I think that the 14 Earl of Derby also turned one down, something
about tainting strawberry leaves.

On Dec 15, 2:03 am, Richard R <r_rut...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Michael Rhodes]

The late Earl of Harewood also declined a marquisate

> > > Richard- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Turenne]

On 15 Dec, 07:11, Michael Rhodes <mig73allenford2...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> The late Earl of Harewood also declined a marquisate
>

So did the 5th Earl of Portsmouth, the 5th Earl Spencer and the 1st
Earl of Athlone. Portsmouth also declined a K.G.

Richard L

[Raveem]

Of course, these days a duekdom (or any other hereditary title) is no
bar to a political career in either House.

Raveem.

[Jonathan]

> lifestyle); Salisbury (ditto) and Disraeli. I feel that Churchill's
> reasons for declining a dukedom were either 1) To stop Randolph
> inheriting it 2) To allow Randolph a political career 3) Because
> neither he nor his heirs would be able to afford it

I always find it rather ironic that he turned down a dukedom for the
sake of his son's career, given that Randolph was to die only three
years after his father, having not set foot in the Commons since the
war.

I've never quite understood why it required more money to be a duke
than an earl. Surely the only requirement was to be able to afford to
attend the Lords instead of working for a living. Or was a duke
expected to maintain a larger estate?

[Richard R]

Nowadays of course a duke may live as simply as he pleases. But in
earlier centuries dukes were relatively rare and lived on a princely
scale. As recently as the last century Prime Minister (later Earl)
Lloyd-George famously quipped "A fully-equipped duke costs as much to
keep up as two dreadnoughts. They are just as great a terror."

[Richard R]

And, of course, Lloyd George is unhyphenated!

> > expected to maintain a larger estate?- Hide quoted text -

[Raveem]

Not to mention that even before the current reform, the ability to
disclaim a peerage, but leave it otherwise unharmed for one's heirs
was suddenly to become available. Not that Chruchill could have
foreseen any of this of course.

Raveem.

[www.maltagenealogy.com]

You mean Churchill? not chuchill?

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Two more refusals of dukedoms: Ailesbury and Northampton, ca 1742.

Horace Walpole wrote on 29 November 1756: "... on my father's resignation [in 1742], the new ministers did prevail to have dukedoms offered to Lord Northampton and Lord Ailesbury; but both declined, having no sons."

https://libsvcs-1.its.yale.edu/hwcorrespondence/page.asp?vol=21&seq=38&type=b