Royal ancestors for Bess of Hardwick or husband William Cavendish?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

The question of the marriage of Elizabeth Goushill and William Hardwick (and the birth of a son, Roger) is still up in the air, so I will try and solve a problem that I am having in a different way.

Do either William Cavendish (c.1505-1557) or his wife, Bess of Hardwick (c. 1527-1608) have Royal ancestors? 

The only connection I could find was  through Roger Hardwick (who if the above scenario was true, would be a descendant of Edward I), but with that in question, I'm hoping there might be another way to solve the problem.

Thanks everyone.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

If neither one of them had a Royal ancestor, then it would mean that William and Bess'  grandson and great-grandson, the 2 Dukes of Newcastle upon Tyne (cr. 1665) would be the only 2 Dukes (so far) that I have found without a tie to the Royal Family (and a connection to all of the other Dukes and Duchesses).

Brooke

[George]

According to Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, 2nd ed. (2011), vol. 2, pp. 209–13, "Bess of Hardwick" was descended from Edward I, as briefly summarized below.


EDWARD I m. (1st) Eleanor of Castile.
/
Princess Elizabeth m. Humphrey, 4th Earl of Hereford [a descendant of Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou].
/
Lady Eleanor de Bohun m. James, 1st Earl of Ormonde.
/
Lady Pernel (or Petronella) Butler m. Gilbert, 3rd Lord Talbot.
/
Richard, 4th Lord Talbot, m. (Hon.) Ankaret le Strange [a descendant of King John].
/
(Hon.) Mary Talbot m. Sir Thomas Greene, of Green's Norton, co. Northampton.
/
Sir Thomas Greene, of Green's Norton, co. Northampton, m. Marine Bellers.
/
Anne Greene m. Sir Thomas Pinchbeck, of Pinchbeck, co. Lincoln.
/
Elizabeth Pinchbeck m. John Hardwick(e), gent., of Hardwick, Ault Hucknall, co. Derby.
/
John Hardwick, of Hardwick, Ault Hucknall, co. Derby, m. Elizabeth Leeke.
/
Bess of Hardwick.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

George, thank you so  much for this information.

Everything is fine through the marriage of (Hon.) Mary Talbot and Sir Thomas Greene and the birth of their son Sir Thomas.  Also, everything is fine with Bess's parents John and Elizabeth (nee Leeke) Hardwick.

The problems I am having are:

1.  Confirming the marriage of Sir Thomas Greene to Marine Bellers.;

2.  Confirming the birth of their daughter Anne and her marriage to Sir Thomas Pinchbeck and

3. Confirming the birth of their daughter Elizabeth to  and her marriage to John Hardwick(e)

While the family tree comes from a documented source, it is similar to the information that I had found re: Sir William Hardewycke/Hardwick(e) and Elizabeth Goushill , namely, there aren't multiple sources (or at least a reputable confirming second source ) for the information.

Any additional help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Brooke

[George]

My suggestion would be to review the numerous sources cited by Richardson.

I have looked through some of them, and the genealogy appears to be correct; but the sources are rather complicated to summarize here.  A number of 19th-century published sources concerning the Pinchbeck genealogy appear to have seen a reference to Anne Greene's maiden surname as Bylney or Billne (probably in the Visitation of Leicestershire of 1619, pedigree of Villers) and assumed that Sir Thomas Pinchbeck had two wives named Anne.  Richardson concludes that "Billne" is an error and should read "Greene."  He appears to be correct.  A good illustration of the apparent error would be Maddison's Lincolnshire Pedigrees, vol. 3 (1904), p. 783: https://archive.org/details/lincolnshirepedi03madd/page/82/mode/2up.  If one realizes that "Marina" and "Mary" Bellers are the same person, that pedigree more or less contradicts itself.

Richardson states that Anne Greene, the wife of Sir Thomas Pinchbeck, was co-heiress of her mother Marine Bellers and inherited from her a one-third share of the manor of Eye Kettleby, co. Lincoln, which had been settled on Marine in 1477 after the death of her brother John, the other co-heirs being John Villers and Jasper Roskyn (or Ruskin).

Elizabeth, daughter of Pinchbeck of Pinchbeck, is identified as the husband of John Hardwick of Hardwick in the Visitations of Derbyshire.  According to Richardson, Elizabeth is named as a legatee in the will of her grandfather, Richard Pinchbeck.  I presume that the will in question is PROB 11/10/618.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

George, thank you for the additional information.

My primary focus is on the descent from Sir Thomas Greene (the son) to Bess of Hardwick.  Based on the sources that you've read and seen, would you feel confident in saying that that family tree is accurate?

Thanks again for your help.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Based on the Richardson sourcing that I've reviewed since my last post,  it does look accurate.  

Brooke

[Gawin]

Brooke- I suggest you post your questions on the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup. Several members are experts on medieval English genealogy.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval

Gawin

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Thanks, Gawin, for your suggestion.

I've actually had a chance to review the family tree  from the Richardson book itself and have concluded the tree is appears to be accurate..

A major thank you to George again, for his help.

Brooke

[https:/www.maltagenealogy.com/LeighRayment/]

You should try this google page for the ancestry stuff as well:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval