HERVEY-BATHURST, Sir Frederick John Charles Gordon 7th Bt (-2011)

[Richard R]

From the Times and the Telegraph 8 December 2011:

HERVEY-BATHURST
On 5th December 2011, Sir Frederick John Charles Gordon Hervey-
Bathurst [7th] Bt. at home. Beloved and adoring husband of Caroline.
Devoted father of Louisa, Sophia and Frederick. Proud grandfather of
Harriet, Edward, William, Robert, Caroline, John, Eleanor and
Frederick.
.— Funeral private.

The late Baronet m 1957 Caroline Myrtle dau of Sir William Randle
STARKEY 2nd Bt (see below) and had a son and 2 daus as above. He is
succ by his son:

Sir Frederick William John HERVEY-BATHURST 8th Bt (b 1965, has not
established his claim to the title) m 1991 Annabel Peta, dau of
Donald WARBURG of Zurich, and had issue:

SON LIVING
Frederick Benjamin Guy (b 9 March 1998) heir apparent

DAUGHTER LIVING
Eleanor Maryse (b 1995)

WIDOW LIVING OF THE 7th BARONET
?Caroline, Lady Hervey-Bathurst (b 1936, has yet to announce her style
in widowhood) dau of dau of Sir William Randle STARKEY 2nd Bt
(1899-1977) and Irene Myrtle (1911-65, dau of Capt Philip FRANCKLIN
MVO RN (1874-1914, lost in action at sea) and Irene Catherine
(1889-1939) dau of Sir Gordon WAKE-WALKER 2nd Bt CMG CVO (1846-1905)).

[Richard R]

Now with birth date in the title!

[Richard R]

Oh dear, I've rushed this out I'm afraid. Now spotted another error:

Irene Catherine (1889-1939) dau of Sir BALDWIN (not Gordon) WAKE-
WALKER 2nd Bt CMG CVO (1846-1905)....

> > (1889-1939) dau of Sir Gordon WAKE-WALKER 2nd Bt CMG CVO (1846-1905)).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Questions seeking answers:

1) Why would a son (particularly an only son) have to establish his
right to the title?

2) How does one establish a right to a title?

3) Is Donald Warburg any relation to the famous American family of the
same name?

Thanks for everyone's help.

Brooke

[Richard R]

Hi Brooke

To answer questions 1 & 2: All heirs to titles, including apparent
ones, have to establish their right to succeed to the title. In the
case of baronets, this means satisfying the requirements set down by
the governing authority, so that the applicant's name may be placed on
the Official Roll. The relevant details are:

THE OFFICIAL ROLL
It is a popular misconception that the heir apparent succeeds
automatically to a baronetcy on the death of the current holder.
Nothing could be further from the truth. By a Royal Warrant of King
Edward VII dated 8th February 1910 an Official Roll was established to
be kept at the Home Office. It was further stated “that no person
whose name is not entered on the Official Roll of Baronets shall be
received as a Baronet, or shall be addressed or mentioned by that
title in any civil or military Commission, Letters Patent or other
official document.”

REGISTRAR OF THE BARONETAGE
In a further Warrant of King George V dated 10th March 1922 the Home
Secretary is required to appoint a senior official as Registrar of the
Baronetage charged with the duty of keeping the Roll and making all
necessary entries and deletions. In 2001 under the Machinery of
Government changes the Registrar of the Baronetage and staff were
transferred from the Home Office to the Lord Chancellor’s Department.
In 2003 this was re-named as the Department of Constitutional Affairs
and in 2007 it became the Ministry of Justice.

PROCEDURE
In order that claims to Baronetcies can be properly and fairly
assessed high standards of evidence are required. The procedure is
that the Registrar of the Peerage & Baronetage first assesses the
claim, then it and the supporting evidence are referred to Garter King
of Arms, except in the case of Baronetcies which have a Scottish
territorial designation which go to Lord Lyon King of Arms. A final
decision is taken by the Registrar following the report by the King of
Arms.
The evidence required varies according to the relationship of the
claimant to the dead baronet. As a minimum [eg in the case of the heir
apparent] the birth certificate of the claimant, the marriage
certificate of the claimant’s parents and the death certificate of the
dead baronet together with two Statutory Declarations will be
required. For collateral successions evidence will be required to
establish that the claimant is descended in the male line from the
first Baronet and that all male lines of descent from the first
Baronet senior to that of the claimant are extinct. In the case of
certain Scottish baronetcies descent may include the female line.
http://www.baronetage.org/succession-to-baronetcy-2/

I don't have an answer for question 3!

[marquess]

You have answered the question quite succinctly, though I wonder why
these people don't first consult a copy of Debretts or Burkes, and
surely they must have access to birth and death certs in the UK at
least. Alot of bother just to be called 'Sir' when everybody knows you
are anyway. One supposes these days there isn't much of a Court to be
received in? Apart from Garden parties!

> certain Scottish baronetcies descent may include the female line.http://www.baronetage.org/succession-to-baronetcy-2/

[Dennis Cunniff]

On Dec 9, 2011, at 6:15 AM, marquess wrote:

I wonder why
these people don't first consult a copy of Debretts or Burkes, and
surely they must have access to birth and death certs in the UK at
least.

One reason might be that they can charge higher fees if they're not just looking something up in a book or database....

DJ.

[Richard R]

I suppose there has to be a legally binding standard. And sources such
as Debrett, Burke, bmd records etc aren't 100% accurate.... And
putting the onus of proof on the claimant may be the right way of
doing it, since they have the most to gain from establishing their
right.

[Richard R]

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Richard, thank you very much for this information.

You learn something new every day!

Brooke

> certain Scottish baronetcies descent may include the female line.http://www.baronetage.org/succession-to-baronetcy-2/

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -