DE STACPOOLE / Flynn engagement

[Richard R]

From the Telegraph of 22 September 2014: Mr T. de Stacpoole and Miss R. Flynn - The engagement is announced between Thomas, son of Mr and Mrs David de Stacpoole, of Westgate Old Rectory, Burnham Market, Norfolk, and Rebecca, daughter of Mr and Mrs Fergus Flynn, of Wangwa Farms, Chisamba, Zambia and Longham, Norfolk.

Thomas Henry M E (b c1986 reg Q1 London) s of David Henry Oliver DE STACPOOLE (b 1951), scion of that Irish gentry family (whose head holds the Papal States title of Duke and Marquess DE STACPOOLE and the French title of Count STACPOOLE) by his 1982 m (reg Q3 Hertforshire) to (Venetia) Jane M (b 1958 reg Q3 London) d of Michael BRATBY and Joyce BURDEN.

[www.maltagenealogy.com]

Do we have any modern day listings of this family online or elsewhere ? 

[marquess]

Wouldn't those who are collateral to the dukedom and marquisate hold the courtesy title of count? As to a listing for the family I am surprised they have never been in the Online Gotha.

[Richard R]

Burke's Irish Family Records restricts the titles to the head of the family, and the Telegraph announcement refers to 'Mr' for David and his son. That description must have been the supplied by the family.

[www.maltagenealogy.com]

Its time I put up their family tree online then hopefully get the updates from family members.

They are considered all Counts/ess

Head of House of course is Duke and Marquis.

[marquess]

It was my understanding too that there are all counts and countess, I recall not long ago seeing an online page about a certain count de stacpoole who had a stately home in Ireland and they referred to themselves with the comital titles. Trouble with French titles is that the rules seem to vary so much that one can hardly keep up with them. As to Papal titles I have yet to come across a definitive rule book on the use of titles by collaterals.

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:10:23 AM UTC+7, Richard R wrote:

[Richard R]

The article you saw may well have referred to the head of the family, who does appear to use the titles. At any rate the late head and his wife were referred to as the 'Duke and Duchesse de Stacpoole" in their son David's wedding notice (who was simply referred to as Mr in the same notice).

[marquess]

I am pretty certain Richard that it was one of the counts, anyway it seem so incongruous that the son of a duke should be referred to as 'Mr'

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:10:23 AM UTC+7, Richard R wrote:

[G. Willis]

Well, at the very least, based on my notes the titles currently have plenty of sons to inherit them. George Richard Derek Andrew, the current (7th) Duc de Stacpoole (David Henry Oliver de Stacpoole's elder brother), has a son, George Edward, born 1983, and of course David's own son Thomas (discussed here) and his brothers Harry Thadeus L. (b. 1988) and Hugo Malachy E. D. (b. 1992) are also in line. Plus the time is about right for the next generation to start making its appearance, so it seems this interesting title won't be going anywhere very soon.

[G. Willis]

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:45:18 PM UTC+1, G. Willis wrote:

Well, at the very least, based on my notes the titles currently have plenty of sons to inherit them. George Richard Derek Andrew, the current (7th) Duc de Stacpoole (David Henry Oliver de Stacpoole's elder brother), has a son, George Edward, born 1983, and of course David's own son Thomas (discussed here) and his brothers Harry Thadeus L. (b. 1988) and Hugo Malachy E. D. (b. 1992) are also in line. Plus the time is about right for the next generation to start making its appearance, so it seems this interesting title won't be going anywhere very soon.

 

EDIT: Also, in some references I've seen the heir to the titles is apparently the 'Vicomte' de Stacpoole. I have no idea whether or not the present-day Stacpooles adhere to this, though- probably, as with so many others, they simply eschew the use of their foreign titles entirely. Which strikes me as something of a pity!

[Richard R]

What is clear, from announcements of family events in the social pages of the nation's broadsheets, is the family's practice of only according the title to the head of the family and his wife.

[G. Willis]

On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 17:39:03 UTC+1, Richard R wrote:

What is clear, from announcements of family events in the social pages of the nation's broadsheets, is the family's practice of only according the title to the head of the family and his wife.

 

Well, there we have it. I wonder i) if such is a common practice amongst holders of Papal/ French/ whatever else titles; ii) if there is any commonality in practice, or if such families can do whatever they want within reason. I agree with Marquess that the guidelines are not very clear, particularly in re: courtesy titles, or at least not as clear as are those relating to English/ U.K. titles. This family's titles don't appear to be 'officially recognised' according to this page: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/foreigntitles.htm - what would that actually mean in daily life, if indeed it means anything at all?

[marquess]

Though the titles are not officially recognised by the UK, the papal titles are still recognised by the Vatican which is a state, all be it a rather small one; and I am sure that as a Catholic family bearing papal titles would be considered far more prestigious than bearing a British one even though it might be recognised by the Crown.

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:10:23 AM UTC+7, Richard R wrote:

[Richard R]

Thanks. Of the references at the bottom of this useful genealogy, to note Burke's Irish Family Records (fifth edn of the BLG of Ireland) was published in 1976, not 1973.

[www.maltagenealogy.com]

Muc appreciated !!, will update.