Marquess or Lothian

[malcolm davies]

There is a story in the Daily Mail that Michael 13th Marquess of Lothian has died aged 79.He was better known as Michael Ancrum and served as an MP and a Minister of State for Northern Ireland and as a Parliamentary Under Secretary.He was married to Lady Jane Fitzalan Howard d of the 16th Duke of Norfolk,who following the death of her sisters is Lady Herries of Terregles.

His successor is his brother Ralph who has a son John who will become Earl of Ancrum.

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

Former Tory minister Marquess of Lothian dies aged 79
Previously known as Michael Ancram, he served in governments of both Thatcher and Major

He was elected again in 1979 in Edinburgh South, beating Gordon Brown, the future prime minister.
Thatcher made him a junior minister in the Scottish Office in 1983 but he again lost his seat four years later.
He returned as MP for Devizes in 1992, and Mr Major soon gave him a job in the Northern Ireland Office.
After a period as party chairman under Mr Hague, Mr Ancram – as he then was – ran against Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Portillo, Kenneth Clarke and David Davis in the 2001 Conservative leadership contest.
He came last, but the victor Mr Duncan Smith gave him the title deputy leader and appointed him as shadow foreign secretary.
... He stood down as an MP in 2010, and later took up his seat in the House of Lords by virtue of a life peerage as Baron Kerr of Monteviot.
He was, however, a hereditary peer by this time, having inherited the title of Marquess of Lothian six years earlier.
He was also the hereditary Chief of the Scottish Clan Kerr.
Up until the time of his death, Lord Lothian was Grand Prior of the Grand Priory of England and Wales, The Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem, reflecting his commitment to his Catholic faith.
He was also deeply committed to his exceptional landscaped gardens at Monteviot, his home in the Scottish Borders.
The peer is survived by his wife, Lady Jane Fitzalan-Howard, the 16th Lady Herries of Terregles, whom he married in 1975. The couple had three daughters: Lady Sarah Margaret, who died at birth in 1976, Lady Clare born in 1979, and Lady Mary born in 1981.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/01/former-tory-minister-the-marquess-of-lothian-dies-aged-79/

[BREMENMURRAY]

Possibly the final Marquess to sit in the House of Lords

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Although DPB Online hasn't updated the page yet,  as malcolm's post stated, the new (14th) Marquess will be Ralph William Francis Joseph  KERR (b. 1957).  He succeeds his brother, who died on October 1st, 2024.  The death of death is contained here:  https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24623275.tory-stalwart-michael-ancram-dies-aged-79-short-illness/

The heir apparent is the eldest of the new Marquess' 4 sons; JOHN WALTER DONALD PETER (b. 1988), who will be styled Earl of Ancram.  Following him in the line of succession will be his 3 brothers.  All are currently shown as unmarried.

1. JOHN WALTER DONALD PETER ,  Earl of Ancram (b. 1988)

2.  Lord Frederic James Michael Ralph, b. 1989

3. Lord Francis Andrew William George, b. 1991

4. Lord Hugh Alexander Thomas Joseph, b. 1999

Brooke

[colinp]

Lord Lothian was by profession a barrister and took silk in 1996 the same year he was appointed a privy counsellor.  He was also a DL for Roxburgh, Ettrick and Lauderdale.

Obituary in today's Daily Telegraph -  Michael Ancram, Tory grandee who played a key role with ex-IRA politicians in peace talks – obituary (telegraph.co.uk)

[colinp]

Lord Lothian was also a co-heir (1/3rd share) of the barony Butler of Moore Park (cr 1666 by writ) which fell into abeyance among the two deceased and one surviving sisters of the 7th and last Earl Cowper in 1905.  Lord Lothian's two daughters now inherit his share equally so that each have a 1/6th share.  The barony must have been one of the last to have been created by writ.

I have just seen a note I made that Lord Lothian preferred the style Marquis rather than Marquess

[bx...@yahoo.com]

DPB Online has now updated this page.  

The information from my previous post is correct, with one addition.  The second son, Lord Frederic, is married.  His wife is Olivia F. , dau of Simon Day, of Westminster.  They married. c. 2019.

Brooke

[dpth...@gmail.com]

"Lord Lothian was also a co-heir (1/3rd share) of the barony Butler of Moore Park..."

Though it should be noted that that Barony has been under attainder since 1715, and while there may still be Baronies called out of abeyance, I doubt in these modern times that any peerages currently under attainder will ever have such attainder reversed.

[colinp]

The attainder was reversed by Act of Parliament 31 July 1871 along with that of the Lordship of Dingwall.  Earl Cowper, the heir general to the Barony became Lord Butler, of Moore Park and also Lord Dingwall.  On his death the Earldom of Cowper, the Viscountcy of Fordwich and the Barony of Cowper became extinct, the Barony of Butler fell into abeyance as above and the Barony of Lucas of Crudwell and the Lordship of Dingwall devolved on his nephew  Auberon Thomas Herbert

[Paul Theroff]

Thanks! I was looking at the Cokayne Complete Peerage which seemed to say that the attainder was still active as of that time.

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D. P. Theroff

[dpth...@gmail.com]

I seen now that sub "Cowper" the reversal of the attainder is mentioned, but under the entry for the Butler barony itself, the reversal is not mentioned. This seems an unusual omission by Cokayne.

[colinp]

I also think Lord Lothian would have been a good appointment to the Order of the Thistle

[dpth...@gmail.com]

The descent of the Butler of Moore Park barony:

  

Thomas Butler, called Earl of Ossory as ha to his father, the Marquess of Ormonde, summoned to Parliament 1666 as Baron Butler of Moore Park (Kilkenny 8 Jul 1634-Arlington House, London 30 Jul 1680); m.in Holland 1659 Amelia van Nassau (d.1688)

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1.James, suc father 1680 as 2nd Lord Butler of Moore Park, 1684 3rd Lord Dingwall [in succession to his maternal grandmother], suc paternal grandfather 1688 as 2nd Duke of Ormonde, attainted 1715 (Dublin Castle 29 Apr 1665-Avignon Nov 1745); m.1st Burlington House 20 Jul 1682 Lady Anne Hyde (d.25 Jan 1685); m.2nd Badminton 3 Aug 1685 Lady Mary Somerset (d.19 Nov 1733); HIS LAST SURVIVING ISSUE DIED 1750

2.Charles, 3rd Duke of Ormonde if, as is argued, his brother’s Irish titles were never subject to attainder, cr 1693 Earl of Arran, Viscount of Tullogh and Baron Butler of Cloughgrenan, cr 1694 Baron Butler of Weston, cr 1722 Jacobite Duke of Arran (4 Sep 1671-London 17 Dec 1758); m.Oatlands, Weybridge 3 Jun 1705 Hon. Elizabeth Crew (d.21 May 1756); the right to the Baronies of Dingwall and Butler of Moore Park, subject to the attainder, descended to the issue of his sister Henrietta

3.Henrietta (d.11 Oct 1724); m.12 Jan 1697 Henry d’Auverquerque [de Nassau], Earl of Grantham (ca 1672-5 Dec 1754)

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3.1.Frances, d.1772; m.4 Jun 1737 William Eliot (ca 1704-7 Jun 1764); but for the attainder of her uncle, the 2nd Duke of Ormonde, she would have been de jure 5th Baroness Dingwall and 4th Baroness Butler of Moore Park; the Dingwall title was later restored to descendants of her sister Henriette

3.2.Henriette (ca 1712-Hartingfordbury 23 Sep 1747); m.27 Jun 1732 William Cowper, 2nd Earl Cowper (d.Cole Green 18 Sep 1764)

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3.2.1.George Nassau, 3rd Earl Cowper, cr 1778 a Prince of the Empire, with remainder to heirs male of his body, in recognition of his representation of the Nassaus of Auverquerque (26 Aug 1738-Florence 22 Dec 1789); m.Florence 2 Jun 1775 Hannah Anne Gore (d.Florence 5 Sep 1826)

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3.2.1.1.Peter Leopold Louis Francis Nassau, 5th Earl Cowper (Florence 6 May 1778-Putney, Surrey 21 Jul 1837); m.Melbourne House 20 Jul 1805 Hon. Emily Mary Lamb (21 Apr 1787-Brocket Hall, Hants 11 Sep 1869); she was sister to the Prime Minister, Viscount Melbourne, and she m.2ndly the Prime Minister, Viscount Palmerston

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3.2.1.1.1.George Augustus Frederick, 6th Earl Cowper (London 26 Jun 1806-Maidstone 15 Apr 1856); m.London 7 Oct 1833 Lady Anne Florence de Grey (London 8 Jun 1806-London 23 Jul 1880); she suc in 1859 as 7th Baroness Lucas of Crudwell

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3.2.1.1.1.1.Francis Thomas de Grey, 7th Earl Cowper, suc. mother as 8th Lord Lucas of Crudwell, suc as 4th Lord Dingwall and 3rd Lord Butler of Moore Park on the 1871 reversal of attainder of an ancestor (London 11 Jun 1834-Panshanger 19 Jul 1905); m.London 25 Oct 1870 Lady Katrine Cecilia Compton (Castle Ashby 26 Jul 1845-Cannes 23 Mar 1913); on his death the Barony of Butler of Moore Park went into abeyance among his sisters and/or their issue

3.2.1.1.1.2.Florence Amabell (4 Dec 1840-26 Apr 1886); m.9 Aug 1871 Hon. Auberon Edward William Molyneux Herbert (18 Jun 1838-5 Nov 1906); the baronies of Lucas and Dingwall devolved on their heirs

3.2.1.1.1.3.Adine Eliza Anne (17 Mar 1843-20 Oct 1868); m.29 Sep 1866 Hon. Julian Henry Charles Fane (10 Oct 1827-19 Apr 1870)

3.2.1.1.1.4.Amabel Frederica Henrietta Cowper (24 Mar 1846-15 Oct 1906); m.18 Nov 1873 Lord Walter Talbot Kerr (28 Sep 1839-12 May 1927); great-grandparents of the late 13th Marquess of Lothian

 

For fuller genealogies of the families shown above, see my pages at:

https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/ormonde.html

https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/nassau_gb.html

https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/cowper.html

https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/lothian.html

[dpth...@gmail.com]

" James, suc father 1680 as 2nd Lord Butler of Moore Park, 1684 3rd Lord Dingwall [in succession to his maternal grandmother]"

that should be PATERNAL grandmother.... :)

[malcolm davies]

ColinP, I also thought he should have been a Knight of the Thistle- I suspect the Parliamentary Expenses Scandal contributed to his not being appointed.

[BREMENMURRAY]

The Times Obit includes both titles Ancram/Lothian

[Henry W]

The Rt Hon Michael Andrew Foster Jude KERR, 13th Marquess of LOTHIAN & Baron KERR OF MONTEVIOT PC KC DL (1945 - 2024) was the son of the 12th Marquess of LOTHIAN (1922 - 2004) and Loris Antonella (Tony) Thomasa NEWLAND (1922 - 2007).

He m 1975 Lady (Theresa) Jane FITZALAN-HOWARD [16th Lady HERRIES OF TERREGLES from 2017] (born 1945), dau of the 16th Duke of NORFOLK (1908 - 1975) and Hon. Lavinia Mary STRUTT (1916 - 1995), dau of the 3rd Baron BELPER.

They had issue:

1. Sarah Margaret KERR (b & d 1976)

2. Lady Clare Therese KERR (born 1979), who m 2010 The Rt Hon Nicholas Richard HURD (his 2nd wife) (born 1962), son of Baron HURD OF WESTWELL (born 1930). They have issue: a son and a dau.  Lady Clare, followed by her son, are the prospective heirs to the HERRIES OF TERREGLES lordship.

3. Lady Mary Cecil KERR (born 1981), who m 2016 Zachary Benjamin ADLER, and have issue: 1 son.

I found a reference here to the 12th Marquess and Tony NEWLAND being cousins through their mothers, but I have not been able to substantiate this.  Can anyone do so?

[colinp]

Here is a list of the co-heirs to the abeyant Barony of Butler, of Moore Park:-

1.       Ralph Matthew Palmer, 11th Baron Lucas of Crudwell (1/6 share) b 1951 m.  Heir apparent only son Hon Lewis Edward Palmer b 1987 unm

2.       Hon Sara Nan Loch (1/6 share) b 1949 unm.  Heir presumptive Lord Lucas of  Crudwell (1 above) when his share will increase to 1/3

3.       David John Julian Salmond (1/6 share) b 1969 m.  Heiresses presumptive are his three sisters Alicia Brigid, Viscountess Head b 1951 m with issue, Georgina Monica Roberts b 1952 div with a son, Venetia Anne Morrison b 1957 m with a son when each will have an 1/18 share

4.       Henry Nicolas Gage, 8th Viscount Gage (1/6 share) b 1934 m. Heir apparent eldest son Hon Henry William Gage b 1975

5.       Lady Clare Therese Hurd (1/6 share) b 1979 m.  Heir apparent only son Caspar Jamie Hurd b 2014

6.       Lady Mary Cecil Adler (1/6 share) b 1981 m.  Heir apparent only son Ocean Jude Michael Adler b 2022

The barony cannot be called out of abeyance by petition as 100 years have elapsed since it fell into abeyance.

[malcolm davies]

Colinp

           "The barony cannot be called out of abeyance by petition as 100 years have elapsed since it fell into abeyance."

  This is true at present(although it should be pointed out that the Crown's prerogative is not strictly bound by what the Committee of Privileges recommended). The recommendation from the Committee currently has a similar status to that of advice given by the Prime Minister to the Crown (ie it should be followed unless there is evidence that the advice is untenable). The primary reason for following the advice is to avoid a potential conflict between the House of Lords and the Crown.

But this will not be the position after the House of Lords Hereditary Peers Act is passed.The advice from the Committee will lack any official status and must be considered on its merits.

Let me pose this hypothetical situation for you:

There is a barony by writ which is in abeyance and has been so for more than 100 years.There are 6 co heirs.

An issue about preservation of an historic building arises.One of the co heirs responds to the call and donates much of the money required to restore the building.He would like to be rewarded by the barony being called out in his favour. There is no objection from the co heirs and no suggestion of collusion.

What will happen?

[Richard R]

From the Telegraph of 21 Oct 2024: LOTHIAN Michael Andrew Foster Jude Kerr, The 13th Marquis. Beloved and devoted husband, father and grandfather, died peacefully on 1st October 2024, aged 79. Private funeral. A Service of Thanksgiving will be held at 2.30 p.m. on 1st May 2025 in Westminster Cathedral, Victoria Street, London… all welcome.

[colinp]

The College of Arms website records that the Secretary of State for Justice has approved the succession of Ralph William Francis Joseph Kerr as Marquess of Lothian in the Peerage of Scotland.

[colinp]

From the Court Circular 1 May 2025:

The King and Queen were represented by the Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry KT at the Service of Thanksgiving for the Life of the Most Hon. the Marquess of Lothian which was held in Westminster Cathedral, London SW1, this afternoon.

The Princess Royal was represented by Mrs David Bowes-Lyon.

The Duke and Duchess of Kent were represented by Earl of St. Andrews.

Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy was represented by Mrs Diane Duke.

[Kenneth Stone]

The Countess of St Andrews and Lady Marina Charlotte Windsor were also there

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[dpth...@gmail.com]

ColinP wrote in a new topic: "For some reason I am unable to reply to the post about Lord Lothian's death -

What I was trying to say....

The Court Circular also stated that the Duke of Gloucester (also representing the Duchess of Gloucester) was present.

The service is on YouTube - (1) SERVICE OF THANKSGIVING - Michael Ancram RIP, 13th Marquess of Lothian - 1 May 2025 - YouTube

Perhaps someone who can do so would be kind enough to reply the main post to link this one to it"