Peers who held titles for the longest time.

[Ind_Duke]

Does anybody have a list of the peers who held their titles for the longest time? 

We already have a similar thread that gives only the list of the longest Duke Holders.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/peerage-news/duke%7Csort:relevance/peerage-news/SSQ01wbGmd4/hA6MAgm2DwAJ

Does anybody have a similar list for the Marquesses, Earls, Viscounts, Barons and Baronets? We can then compile a comprehensive list of the longest title-holders irrespective of their peerage type. 

There is a related list on the Leigh Rayment Peerage page which gives a progressive listing of the longest held peerages since 1513.

http://www.leighrayment.com/reppeers/peerrecords.htm

It is very interesting to note that there are a number of peers who held their peerages for over 60 years unlike monarchs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monarchs

Would it be possible to compile a comprehensive list of all the peers who have held their titles for more than 60 years?

[Henry W]

Just listing the living peers who have held their peerage for 60+ years will be a substantial list. If there are 3 living Dukes that meet the criterion, then there will be many more in the lower ranks of peerage.

Immediatley Ullswater, Carrington, and Denham come to mind and they are "more visible" because they continue to serve in the House of Lords. 

[bx...@yahoo.com]

According to unterstein.net, there are 25 current hereditary peers who have held their titles for 60+ years.

Here is a list of those current peers who have held their title for at least 70 years:

Baron Monk Bretton (since 1933)-- longest peerage holder

Baron Carrington (since 1938)

Viscount Gormanston (since 1940)

Earl of Suffolk (since 1941)

Baron Sudeley (since 1941)

Duke of Kent (since 1942)

Baron Dickinson (since 1943)

Earl of Plymouth (since 1943)

Earl of Chichester (since 1944)

Baron Davies (since 1944)

Baron O'Neill (since 1944)

Duke of Edinburgh (since 1947)

Brooke

[colinp]

So far as baronetcies are concerned 60+ would be too low a threshold.  I have a list of around 20 baronets who have held their title for 80+ years including two current holders.  I will endeavour to find time to type up and verify the list.  The longest baronetcy holder may be Sir Peter Soame (E cr 1685) who appears to have held the baronetcy for around 91 years - born c 1707, succ early 1709 and died 7 Sept 1798 whereupon the title became extinct.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:31:38 UTC+1, Ind_Duke wrote:

[BREMENMURRAY]

The number of peers holding their titles for over seventy years is inflated because several of them inherited at a very young age due to World War Two.

The longest held among the non royal Dukes is Roxburghe(1974),the longest held Marquessate is Winchester(1968).Even among the Earls  apart from those already mentioned only Gowrie(1955) has held his title over sixty years 

[colinp]

With regard to Sir Peter Soame I should have put 89 years "reign" rather than 91 years - my maths is terrible.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:31:38 UTC+1, Ind_Duke wrote:

[colinp]

This also means the baronet who has held a baronetcy for the longest time is Sir John Prichard-Jones (UK cr 1910) from 17 October 1917 to 2 July 2007 -well over 89 years.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:31:38 UTC+1, Ind_Duke wrote:

[Ind_Duke]

Thank you very much. This fact also makes Sir John Prichard-Jones the longest ever peerage holder from the UK and most probably the world, if you exclude royals who are given noble titles from birth like in Sweden. The 7th Marquess Townshend was the longest peerage holder (excluding baronets) with a tenure of 88 years, 157 days. Sir John Prichard-Jones with a total tenure of 89 years and 256 days overtakes the 7th Marquess Townshend.

[colinp]

I now have a list of peers who have been peers for more than 60 years. This includes peeresses in their own right. I acknowledge the help of Leigh Rayment’s website without which it would be very time consuming to produce such information.

The total number of peers is 374 of whom 73 were also baronets. 350 are deceased of whom 66 were also baronets and 24 are living of whom 7 are also baronets.

13 held their peerages for 80 years or more including one living peer. Leigh Rayment lists those over 85 years on his website but the full list of those over 80 years is as follows (baronets marked with an asterisk):-

George John Patrick Dominic Townshend, 7th Marquess Townshend (GB 1787) 88 years 157 days *
Charles Sinclair, 13th Lord Sinclair (S c1449) 87 years 104 days
George William Coventry, 9th Earl of Coventry (E 1697) 86 years 302 days
Edward John Barrington Douglas-Scott-Montagu, 3rd Baron Montagu of Beaulieu (UK 1885) 86 years 154 days
Charles Henry Fitzroy, 4th Baron Southampton (GB 1780) 86 years 144 days
Charles Cockayne, 5th Viscount Cullen (I 1642) 86 years 62 days
Adrian Gerald Foley, 8th Baron Foley (GB 1776) 84 years 315 days
John Charles Dodson, 3rd Baron Monk Breton (UK 1884) 84 years 230 days LIVING
Julian Edward George Asquith, 2nd Earl of Oxford and Asquith (UK 1925) 82 years 335 days
Anthony Gerald Edward Noel, 5th Earl of Gainsborough (UK 1841) 82 years 125 days *
George Alexander Eugene Douglas Haig, 2nd Earl Haig (UK 1919) 81 years 162 days
Alan Cathcart, 6th Lord Cathcart (S c1460) 80 years 299 days
John Hubert de la Poer Beresford, 8th Marquess of Beresford (I 1789) 80 years 140 days *

For living peers I have made the calculation to 16 March 2018

The breakdown by reference to ranks is as follows:-

Dukes 16 (13 decd and 3 living)
Marquesses 21 (20 decd and 1 living)
Earls 136 (133 decd and 3 living)
Viscounts 41 (37 decd and 4 living)
Barons/Lords 162 (149 decd and 13 living)

I have included peers by reference to their highest peerage where they always all peerages together and ignored peerages to which a peer may have succeeded or which he may have been granted where of equal or lower rank. The arithmetically minded among you will have noticed that the above add up to 376 in total instead of 374. That is because an Earl and a Countess subsequently succeeded to or were granted a dukedom and they also held the dukedom for more than 60 years. These were Anne Scott Countess of Bucleuch in her own right for 70 years and Duchess of Buccleuch for 68 years and Charles Douglas Earl of Solway for 70 years and Duke of Queensberry and Dover for 67 years.

I should also point out that among the living peers of more than 60 years is the Earl of Wilton who as Baron Ebury has been a peer since 1957 - this is not readily apparent from using the sort facility on the unterstein website

Over the next few days I will provide separate posts for each rank of the peerage listing the longest held 10 - 20 peerages in each rank although for the dukes I will just add to the existing post about longest held dukes

If anyone would like the complete list please let me know
Colin

[Richard R]

This is an excellent, collaborative post giving lots of interesting information. Many thanks

[Ind_Duke]

Thanks a ton, colinp. !!

This is a very comprehensive listing that you have managed to compile. I would love to have the full listing of peers who held their titles for more than 60 years. I have always wanted to look at such a list and hurrah!!, you have made it possible now. Would you be kind enough to post the complete list on here ? It would be awesome if you could make the list available online permanently on some website such as Leigh Rayment or even Wikipedia. Wikipedia has many lists but it should be checked with them to find if they would consider this list to be relevant enough. It would be great if many others could benefit from your painstaking research and compilation. Pray tell me how you managed to complete this and how long did it take. Did you list down all peers who held titles for more than 60 years from the leighrayment website and then proceed to calculate the duration of each of them and sort them finally? Or did you employ some other way? 

I am eagerly looking forward to your new posts for the earls, viscounts and barons. Also, do you think it would be possible to compile such a listing for the baronets. I think the baronet listing would require more than double this effort. Also, no peer or baronet has yet held the title for 90 years. I am wondering if such a feat would be ever possible. The Earl of Chichester, being a posthumous son has the best chance to achieve this by simply living upto 90 years. 

[colinp]

Ind Duke - yes, I compiled the list as you have indicated.  I would prefer not to post the list here but if you email me I will send it to you.  Colin

On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:31:38 UTC+1, Ind_Duke wrote:

[Ind_Duke]

Can you mail me the complete list of peers who have held titles for more than 60 years?

My email-id:  guru.a....@gmail.com

[Ind_Duke]

From your list, I would like to look into women who held titles for the longest time. 

[ThomasFoolery]

I know it's a bit dicey calling Her Majesty a "peeress", but might the Queen as Duchess of Edinburgh be the longest serving duchess (or even peeress) by marriage -- not counting years spent as a Dowager?

[Ind_Duke]

Yes, I guess the Queen would be the longest ever serving duchess by marriage because the Duke of Kent got married only in 1961. But I am not sure if she would be considered the Duchess of Edinburgh after she succeeded to the throne. But it would be interesting to look at the longest served peeresses by marriage. We could start by looking into colinp's complete list and look at how long the peers were married. Also, I guess the husbands of peeresses do not hold any precedence with respect to their wife's titles. So we should be looking at only the women married to the peers. If we considered all peeresses by marriage and not only duchesses, then i am not sure if the Queen would be the longest serving. 

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Another who held a Baronetcy for a long time, though not so long as Sir Peter Soame, is Sir Berkeley Lucy, 3rd Bt.

Sir Berkeley Lucy, 3rd Bt., b.ca 1672, succeeded his father ca Sep 1678, died 19 November 1759.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

By the way, while I was reading about the Lucy Baronets, I discovered a discrepancy which is likely of interest only to those who really collect older noble genealogies, but I know that includes many members here. :)

Sir Berkeley Lucy, 3rd Bt., certainly had a daughter Mary, wife of Hon. Charles Compton. Some works imply that there were other daughters, which is almost surely correct, but there is confusion.

Cokayne (Complete Baronetage, sub Lucy) and Burke’s Commoners say that Edmund Plowden, of Plowden (d.1766), married Elizabeth, dau of Sir Berkeley Lucy, Bt.; Cokayne says they married 20 Jul 1765, Burke’s Commoners says 20 Jul 1755; Burke’s LG (1937) says Plowden married 20 Jul 1755 Lucy, dau of William Thompson, granddaughter of Sir Berkeley Lucy, Bt.

Considering the dates, whether 1755 or 1765 is correct, it is much more likely that she was in fact a granddaughter, not daughter, of Sir Berkeley, so she was probably daughter of William Thompson as the LG says. Note that Mary Lucy married Charles Compton in 1727.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Here is another Baronet with a long tenure:

Sir Robert Burdett, of Bramcott, 4th Baronet, born posthumously 28 May 1716; his father had died 6 Jan 1716, and his grandfather, the 3rd Baronet, on 18 Jan 1716. the 4th Baronet died 13 Feb 1797, having been a Baronet for all his more than eighty years.

[colinp]

If you go to Leigh Rayment’s website in the Introduction to the Baronetage section you will find a list of Baronets who have held their title for more than 80 years

[colinp]

Lord Monk Bretton who is the longest serving peer (succ 29 July 1933) will overtake the 7th Marquess Townshend as the longest ever serving peer on 3 January 2022 which is not so far away. His Lordship would have to live to be 97 years 5 months and 18 days to achieve this. I have made a diary note. This is the sort of thing I wonder about on holiday!

[colinp]

Sir Adrian Blennerhassett, 7th Baronet (UK 1809), today joins the baronets who have held their titles for at least 80 years.

He was born the same day, 25 May 1940, his father, the 6th Baronet, was killed in action serving in HMS Greyhound at Dunkirk.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:31:38 UTC+1, Ind_Duke wrote:

[hopewell]

The Queen is Duke of Lancaster so 66 years.

The Duke of Kent, now 84, was 6 when he inherited the Dukedom on the death of his father, Prince George.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 8:31:38 AM UTC-4, Ind_Duke wrote:

[Richard R]

My view is it's misleading to include Lancaster in this thread as it doesn't exist as an actual dukedom. When The Queen's title & style is recited it as QUEEN and that's it. Unlike some mainland European ruling and former ruling families, the British monarch, as the Fountain of Honour, cannot hold a title of itself. Just as She's sometimes referred to as "Duke of Normandy" in the Channel Islands, She is sometimes referred to as "Duke of Lancaster" in England. I accept it may confuse some people that She receives an income from the "duchy of Lancaster" but that doesn't make Her a duke in any real sense.

[John Horton]

It’s certainly not a peerage title in the sense this group normally recognises and reflects the fact that British monarchs, unlike many European monarchs, hold no junior titles.

There are two nice stories that come to mind though. First, Lancastrians sometimes toast “The Duke of Lancaster”. The other is a story about King George VI (I think) on being told that he wasn’t really Duke of Lancaster. His Majesty, acknowledging the correctness of this, is said to have replied to the effect that “Yes – but I like to think I’m Duke of Lancaster”. 

---

From: peerag...@googlegroups.com <peerag...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard R <r_ru...@hotmail.com>
Sent: 27 May 2020 5:14 AM
To: Peerage News <peerag...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Peers who held titles for the longest time.

 

My view is it's misleading to include Lancaster in this thread as it doesn't exist as an actual dukedom. When The Queen's title & style is recited it as QUEEN and that's it. Unlike some mainland European ruling and former ruling families, the British monarch, as the Fountain of Honour, cannot hold a title of itself. Just as She's sometimes referred to as "Duke of Normandy" in the Channel Islands, She is sometimes referred to as "Duke of Lancaster" in England. I accept it may confuse some people that She receives an income from the "duchy of Lancaster" but that doesn't make Her a duke in any real sense.

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[colinp]

Viscount Gormaston (b 19 Nov 1939) today joins the ranks of peers who have held their titles for 80 years. His father the 16th Viscount was killed in action in France 9 May 1940.

[Al]

Given some of those long tenures I wonder what the fewest # (continuously held) peerage over the greatest period might me.

I was reminded recently we are only on the

7th Earl of Rosebery after nearly 320yrs

[marquess]

The viscountcy of Palmerston had just 3 holders between 1723 and 1865.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 7:31:38 PM UTC+7, Ind_Duke wrote:

Does anybody have a list of the peers who held their titles for the longest time? 

We already have a similar thread that gives only the list of the longest Duke Holders.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/peerage-news/duke%7Csort:relevance/peerage-news/SSQ01wbGmd4/hA6MAgm2DwAJ

Does anybody have a similar list for the Marquesses, Earls, Viscounts, Barons and Baronets? We can then compile a comprehensive list of the longest title-holders irrespective of their peerage type. 

There is a related list on the Leigh Rayment Peerage page which gives a progressive listing of the longest held peerages since 1513.

http://www.leighrayment.com/reppeers/peerrecords.htm

It is very interesting to note that there are a number of peers who held their peerages for over 60 years unlike monarchs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monarchs

Would it be possible to compile a comprehensive list of all the peers who have held their titles for more than 60 years?

[colinp]

Sir (James) Andrew Watson, 5th Baronet (UK 1866), today joins the baronets who have held their titles for 80 years  

His father, the 4th Baronet was killed on active service in the Middle East on 10 January 1941

[colinp]

Today the Earl of Suffolk and Berkshire (b 1935) joins the peers who have held their titles for 80 years.  His father, a bomb disposal expert, died on active service while defusing an unexploded 550 lb bomb in Kent and for which he was awarded a posthumous George Cross

[dpth...@gmail.com]

That makes up for the huge number of Earls of Suffolk earlier:

from the death of the 3rd earl in 1689 to the accession of the 15th earl in 1783, there were thus 13 earls within less than 100 years, and of course a similar number of countesses.

[malcolm davies]

Put another way,there have been 13 generations of Suffolk Howards from the 1st Earl to the present 21st Earl.The 3rd,4th & 5th Earls were brothers,as were the 6th,8th & 9th Earls.The 7th & 10th Earls were first cousins.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Walpole found the number of Suffolk earls so interesting that he noted in a letter to Lady Ossory in 1783 that when he had visited Saffron Walden in 1762, he saw a vault in which there were the coffins of eleven earls and countesses of Suffolk who had died since 1700 (the editor of the Yale edition gives more specifics: they died between 1703 and 1745, and did not include the widow of the 4th Earl, who was buried elsewhere.) He went on to note that there had been seven more deaths since that time (the editor notes that between 1757 and 1783 eight more earls and countess of Suffolk had died, though most of them had not been buried at Walden.)

[colinp]

Today the Lord Sudeley (b 1939) joins the peers who have held their titles for 80 years.  He succeeded his cousin, the 6th Baron, who died on active service at sea 26 Aug 1941.

[colinp]

Sir Charles Mark Palmer, 5th Baronet (UK 1886), today joins the baronets who have held their titles for 80 years.  He was born posthumously on 21 Nov 1941 and succeeded on the same day

Burke's (and Debrett's) state that his father, the 4th Baronet was killed in action in Syria 18 May 1941.  In fact it would appear that he and his comrades were missing in action off the coast of Libya on that day as they took part in  Operation Boatswain, an attempt to destroy the oil refineries at Tripoli, Lebanon

On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 13:25:32 UTC+1 BREMEN...@YAHOO.CO.UK wrote:

At present four peers exceed eighty years. Lord Monk Bretton, Viscount Gormanston,the Earl of Suffolk and Berkshire and Lord Sudeley

[colinp]

Today the 3rd Baron Monk Bretton overtakes the 7th Marquess Townshend as the longest serving peer ever at 88 years and 158 days

[bx...@yahoo.com]

That's truly an amazing statistic.  

I was curious about the circumstances of his succession.  At first, I thought he had succeeded because his father had been killed in WWII, but then realized the math didn't work out that way.

The wikipedia article said that his father died in a nursing home at age 63, so it looks like his father had been ill for some time. 

Brooke

[Ivan Prekajski]

Duke of Kent's 80th anniversary today as duke.

[BREMENMURRAY]

The Duke of Kent joins Viscount Gormanston and Lord Sudeley in holding his title for over eighty years

[colinp]

Sir William Neil Young (b 1941), 10th Baronet (GB 1769), today joins the baronets who have held their titles for 80 years.  He succeeded his grandfather, his father having been ka in Libya in 1942

[colinp]

Sir Ranulph (Twisleton-Wykeham-) Fiennes OBE, 3rd Baronet (UK 1916) today joins the baronets who have held their titles for 80 years.  He was born posthumously on 7 March 1944 and on that day succeeded his father the 2nd baronet who had died while on active service in Naples on 24 Nov 1943 (he trod on a German anti-personnel mine).

[colinp]

The Earl of Chichester today joins the peers (and baronets) who have held their titles for 80 years.  He was born posthumously on 14 April 1944 and succeeded at birth, his father having been killed in a road accident on 21 Feb 1944 while on active service.

[malcolm davies]

We might also wish him a happy birthday.

[BREMENMURRAY]

He joins Viscount Gormanston and the Duke of Kent in holding his peerage for over eighty years

[colinp]

Sir Robin Phillips, 3rd Baronet joins the Baronets who have held their title for 80 years.  His father Capt Sir Lionel Francis Phillips, Royal Artillery, was killed in action in Italy 6 July 1944

[colinp]

Sir Brian Barttelot, 5th Baronet joins the Baronets who have held their title for 80 years.  His father Brig Sir Walter Barttelot DSO was killed in action 16 August 1944 at Caumont, Normandy while commanding 6th Guards Tank Brigade

[colinp]

The 4th Baron O'Neill KCVO TD today joins the peers who have held their title for 80 years.  His father Lt-Col the 3rd Baron O'Neill of the North Irish Horse was killed in action in Italy 24 October 1944 - he is buried in Coriana Ridge War Cemetery, Emilia-Romagna in northern Italy.  Lord O'Neill is the last of the living peers to have succeeded during (and indeed because of) WW2

[marquess]

Doesn't the current earl of Chichester fall into this category having succeeded in 44?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

marquess, I think not  only the current Earl of Chichester falls into this category,  but also the current Viscount Gormanston (currently the peer who has held his title the longest, father ka in 1940) and the present Duke of Kent (father killed in 1942 plane crash).

Brooke

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

>>> Doesn't the current earl of Chichester fall into this category having succeeded in 44?

The current earl of Chichester  succeeded  on 21 February 1944 (before Lord O'Neill).

[bx...@yahoo.com]

gorgo, although  Feb. 21st was the date his father was killed, it wasn't until April 14th that the Earl was even born.

But he's still 6 months and 10 days ahead of Lord O'Neill in peerage seniority.

Brooke

[BREMENMURRAY]

It will be at least another five years until another peer potentially reaches holding his title for eighty years.Viscount Ullswater inherited in 1949 closely followed by Lord Chetwode in 1950.Both inherited early due to the events of World War Two

[BREMENMURRAY]

Today may well come to be the start of the only period in history with four hereditary peers living at the same time having succeeded more than eighty years before. Of the five still living who inherited in the 1950s only Lord Hesketh is comparatively youthful in his mid seventies.

[Henry W]

A few peeresses to note:

The 11th Baroness BEAUMONT (suo jure)  [b 1894] 1 June 1896 - 31 Aug 1971 .  75 years 3 months

Fortune FitzRoy, Countess of EUSTON, then Duchess of GRAFTON, later Dowager Duchess of GRAFTON  [b 1920]  12 Oct 1946 - 3 Dec 2021.  75 years, 1 month and 22 days.

Both exceed the time that HM Queen Elizabeth II could claim to be a Duchess & Dowager Duchess from 20 Nov 1947 to 8 Sep 2022.  74 years 9 months 19 days.  Obviously her claim of her being a peeress by marriage for most of this time was superceded by being sovereign.

[BREMENMURRAY]

The First World War did not result in long held peerages in the way that the Second World War has

[dpth...@gmail.com]

The Richardson, later Richardson-Bunbury, Baronetcy, has so far had only six holders since created in 1787.

[colinp]

Sir Alan James Outram, 5th Baronet today joins the baronets who have held their title for 80 years.  He succeeded his great-uncle, the 4th Baronet 30 June 1945.  His father James Ian Outram died in 1937 at the early age of 35

[Ivan Prekajski]

He is the 8th living baronet with this achievement.

[Scott55]

I thought Baronets weren't Peers. Enlighten me please.

[Ivan Prekajski]

They aren't.