Engagement: Mr T.J Carew-Pole and Miss C.L.C.Watkins

[Turenne]

The engagement is announced between Tremayne, son of John Richard
Walter Reginald Carew Pole, 13th Bt. and Lady Carew-Pole nee Dawnay,
(daughter of Lt.-Col. Ronald Dawnay and Lady y Elizabeth Katherine
Grey, d. of the 5th Earl Grey), and Charlotte, d. of Mr and Mrs
Christopher Watkins, of Dorset.

Richard L

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Peerage News" group.
To post to this group, send email to peerag...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to peerage-news...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/peerage-news?hl=en.

[JonnyK]

A link to Ireland must not go unmentioned here, for the wife of Lt.
Gen. Sir Reginald Pole-Carew was Lady Beatrice Butler, elder daughter
of the 3rd Marquess of Ormonde, a title now sadly extinct. Their son
John later succeeded to the Carew Pole baronetcy (and reversed his
name) and is the grandfather of the bridegroom.

The marquessate of Ormonde is a title which deserves a thorough
history of its own. It became extinct in 1997 with the death of the
7th Marquess, and incidentally he left two daughters, Ladies Ann and
Violet Butler. Anyone have any clues as to their whereabouts?

[Turenne]

On 21 Apr, 22:09, JonnyK <j_kennedy1...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>... and incidentally he left two daughters, Ladies Ann and

> Violet Butler. Anyone have any clues as to their whereabouts?
>
> --

The only info I can find is:

Constance Ann Butler, Lady, b. 1940, Md. 1965, Henry Lea Soukup, of
Hinsdale, Ill., U.S.A., s. of Raymond J. Soukup.

Andrew Butler Soukup, b.1969.
Meghan Ormonde Soukup, b. 1971.

(Note the middle names!)

Violet Cynthia Lilah Butler, Lady, b. 1946, Md.1) 1971 (div. 2002),
Donald L. Robb; Md.2) 2002, Russell Raymond Hammer.

There is a Russell R. Hammer acting as a Real Estate Agent in Naples,
Florida

Richard L

[JonnyK]

Thanks Richard, very interesting. Seems both ladies moved to America
at some point.

The House of Butler has a long and fascinating history. The final
chapter in the late Mark Bence-Jones's book Twilight of the Ascendancy
recalls the day in 1967 when the then Marquess of Ormonde was making a
speech in the courtyard of Kilkenny Castle, his ancestral home, which
he was handing over to the care of the Irish state. The crowd of
people and a sizeable press corps suddenly flaked away from his speech
and headed over to where one (or several, I can't remember) members of
the Rolling Stones was wandering around the grounds and left Lord
Ormonde alone at the dais. Bence-Jones was making the point that
modern Ireland had ceased to care very much about the Ascendancy.
Ironically, it was at precisely this time that the voices of those
concerned about one aspect of the Ascendancy's legacy, it's built
heritage, were beginning to be heard. People like Desmond Guinness and
others involved in the Irish Georgian Society.

[marquess]

If I recall correctly the marquisate was granted twice, though with
the extensive Butler family I don't know why the remainder was not to
males in tail. In Lord Blake's Disreali there was a comment on how the
PM was pestered by various people as to why they should have peerages
etc and there was a letter from the then marquess of Ormonde begging
for the restoration of the dukedom that his family had enjoyed. As
stated above it is the remainder of the two creations of the
marquisate that are partly to blame for its extinction. Butler A BOO!

[Richard R]

Yes, both living in the USA according to p P1101 of the 2008 edition
of Debrett's Peerage:

Lady Constance: 618 North Washington, Hinsdale, Illinois, USA

Lady Violet: 2734 North Racine St, Chicago, Illinois 60614, USA

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/peerage-news?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -