Who is the richest Marquis and who is the poorest one?

[marquess]

Yes this is the question who is the richest marquis? Would it be Bath
or Northampton, the latter with two stately homes. Also which marquis
has the largest land holdings. Would Ely be a canditate for the
poorest marquis, as he seems to own nothing in peerage terms.

[Michael Rhodes]

I think that maybe Cholmondeley is the richest.

Poorest? Winchester has no land. Ailsa? Downshire certainly isn't a
millionaire. Exeter is now in Canada, and his former seat has gone
through the female line; Ely?

[marquess]

Well no Exeter's seat has not gone through the female line Lady
Victoria has only been appointed by the trustees to run it and there
was some talk a few years back of Lord Burghley taking over, though
at the time he was considered to be too young. What about Sailsbury
he has two stately homes, and more land than Chomondley, and even
Northampton must be wealthier? It wouldn't surprise me if Winchester
weren't some business millionaire, what we need is an agent on the
ground to up date us, I would have thought that with the late Marquis
of Ely being a headmaster, he might have been the poorest of the lot!

On 4 Dec, 15:07, Michael Rhodes <migx73allenford2...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

[gentlemole]

salisbury is the richest according to the times rich list around 250
mil pounds. he has substantial london land

> > through the female line; Ely?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Turenne]

Bute has extensive holdings not only in Scotland but in England and
South Wales. Is Londonderry still loaded? The family used to have
massive coal mining interests.

Richard L

[marquess]

Londonderry sold his estate in the eighties, Seham Hall or something,
but there is a stately (Mount Stewart Newtownard, Co Down) home in N
Ireland, which is in the name of his aunt, not sure what the land
holding is though. As to Bute I never knew that he owned property in
England? I know that they used to own Cardiff Castle but I thought
that all the land holdings had been sold there?

[JonnyK]

The Marquess of Salisbury is the richest marquess according to the
Rich List, coming in this year with £250 million, followed by the
Marquess of Bath with £145 million. Coming in third, as the second
richest Scottish peer, is the Marquess of Bute with £123 million.

The other names suggested throw up surprising results however.
Northampton certainly does own two fine places but the list ranks him
with just £70 million while Cholmondeley, also with two great estates
comes in with £60 million according to last year's list. The
comparitively 'nouveau' Marquess of Milford Haven is sitting very
comfortably with £103 million from his IT successes, not from land or
art.

To further this speculation, what about Lothian who has two fine
places in the Borders? And Camden with Bayham, and Townshend with
Raynham, and Zetland with Castle Aske?

In Ireland I would hazard a guess that a handful of marquesses are
comfortable though far from rich; Waterford still has the magnificent
Curraghmore in the county of the same name which has been in his
family since the 12th century; Sligo at Westport House; and Donegall
at Dunbrody in Wexford. Not sure about Londonderry though. He lives in
Dorset I'm told, but the Irish seat is with the National Trust,
Wynyard was sold years ago and I'm sure nothing is left of the coal
fortune.

[marquess]

I thought that Bayham had been sold ages ago, but if there are any
Kent acres left then they must be worth quite a bit, I heard that
Townshend had about 12, 0000 acres in Norfolk? Chomomondley has gone
to the dogs or will be. Yes Milford Haven is interesting, though his
brother Lord Ivar the one with four or five daus, lives in a nice
place that he got from his aunt.

[Turenne]

marquess wrote:

>As to Bute I never knew that he owned property in England? I know that they used to own Cardiff Castle but I thought
>that all the land holdings had been sold there?

He has a home in London where he spends much of the year. I didn't
know that he'd sold his Welsh holdings, does he still own Castell
Coch?

Richard

[Peter FitzGerald]

Can I be pedantic and point out that the richest Marquess is the
Marquess of Westminster? :-)

[JonnyK]

Castell Coch was transferred to the care of Cadw, the heritage trust
for Wales, by the 5th Marquess of Bute in 1950, which I suppose means
it could technically still be in the family's ownership. He also
famously sold Cardiff Castle to the city for £1, both examples of this
family's renowned philanthropy.

On a pedantic note similar to Peter FitzGerald, it can be pointed out
that the richest Irish Marquess is surely the Duke of Abercorn, as it
was by virtue of his marquessate in the Peerage of Great Britain that
he had his seat in the Lords, as his dukedom is in the Peerage of
Ireland. Hmm, or does that not make him an Irish Marquess at all? I
may have opened a can of pedantic worms on this one!

[Peter FitzGerald]

On 7 Dec, 09:59, JonnyK <j_kennedy1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On a pedantic note similar to Peter FitzGerald, it can be pointed out
> that the richest Irish Marquess is surely the Duke of Abercorn, as it
> was by virtue of his marquessate in the Peerage of Great Britain that
> he had his seat in the Lords, as his dukedom is in the Peerage of
> Ireland. Hmm, or does that not make him an Irish Marquess at all? I
> may have opened a can of pedantic worms on this one!

Fortunately, His Grace is also Marquess of Hamilton in the Peerage of
Ireland!

[JonnyK]

Nicely pointed out Peter, thanks!

[marquess]

How is Hamilton so rich, he only owns 5000 acres, unless there is oil
on the land, and I was refering to those who held the title of
marquess as their principal title rather than as a subsiduary one to a
dukedom, but I should still be interested in an answer to the
Hamilton question?

On 6 Dec, 23:07, JonnyK <j_kennedy1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nicely pointed out Peter, thanks!

[JonnyK]

It's a pedantic point, and a guesstimate at best, that Abercorn under
the guise of Marquess of Hamilton, an Irish peerage, is probably the
richest Irish Marquess. Not as rich as Salisbury clearly, but the Rich
List says he is worth £32 million, which I would day makes him the
richest among other Irish Marquesses such as Waterford, Donegall,
Downshire et al.

[Turenne]

We have a tendency to get a bit hung up with acreages as opposed to
location of land. People like the Dukes of Westminster, Norfolk and
Bedford, the Earl Cadogan and the Earl of Portland all may have large
landholdings but much of their wealth is derived from smaller parcels
of land in Central London and the Home Counties.

Richard L

[marquess]

Now it is interesting that you should mention Portland, now as far as
I aware he doesn't own anything, it all belondg to Lady Anne Bentick,
a dau of one of the previous dukes who is about 90, and owns three
stately homes. Now I wonder if she has come to some arrangement to
leave those to Timothy and his sons? After all she has no children and
it is either them or some institution?

[JonnyK]

Yes interesting point marquess. What are the precedents in recent
times of titles going one way in a family and the land and art another
way?

The only example I can think of in a similar vein is Sutherland, where
the dukedom went in the male line to the Egertons along with the art
while the ancient Scottish earldom demerged once more and is now
vested, along with Dunrobin Castle, in the Countess of Sutherland.

[marquess]

That is not quite the samething really, as it was well know and
pointed out at the time of the creation of the Dukedom that the two
titles could go seperate ways, there is a possibility of that
happening with Buccleuch as their earldom has the same remainder as
that of earldom of sutherland. But going back to Portland I wonder
what Lady Anne plans to do with her stately homes and land, she is not
getting any younger, though I wonder if Timothy Bentick would like to
take on the responsibility, or perhaps one of his sons?

[Turenne]

> > vested, along with Dunrobin Castle, in the Countess of Sutherland.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I assumed that Tim Bentinck was Lady Anne's heir, which is why I
mentioned Portland earlier. Earlier posts by JonnyK and marquess
intimate that he may not be the heir, Does anyone know who may be Lady
Anne's heir may be if it isn't Tim. More importantly, will Tim give up
his job on The Archers if he inherits:)

Sorry too many 'heirs', couldn't think of a synonym.

Richard

[gentlemole]

lady anne's heir is probably her sister's son william parente he is
one of the directors of the welbeck estaste company that own the land

> Richard- Hide quoted text -

[marquess]

Well if that is the case then that is the end of the connexion with
the Portland family, one would have thought that least the principal
seat would have gone to Timothy or one of his sons who are now
certainly of age? Her father should never have left her the estates in
the first place, male line, until it is exctinct, had her father's
predecessors not followed such custom he would never had had the
estates himself! Last of the Portlands and no estates, still I can
console myself witih the fact that when she and her sister pop off,
they will be completely erased from Debretts!

[gentlemole]

it is sad the earls of portland have no estates, but they have no
claim to welbeck as it came into the family through the 2nd dukes
marriage to the heiress to the estates of the cavendish duke
of newcastle. lady anne cavendish-bentinck inherited the estates
because there were no heirs in the next generation to the dukedom. in
regards to william parente he was high sheriff of
nottinghamshire 2003-2004 which suggests he is an important man in the
area already. his mother died in 1955. i think parente could be from a
european titled family but i could be wrong.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Turenne]

gentlrmole wrote:

>i think parente could be from a european titled family but i could be wrong.

No, you are right; William's father was Don Gaetano Parente, Principe
di Castel Viscardo. William is effectively a prince in his own right.

Richard L