Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer descent of title
S. S.
Paul Theroff
He suggests, sub Oxford, that POSSIBLY the title was chosen because of a second-hand connection: i.e., that the sister of his grandmother, Hon. Brilliana Conway, was married to Lord Vere of Tilbury.
However, Lord Vere of Tilbury's only wife was Mrs Mary Hoby, née Tracy. This is confirmed by Cokayne, sub Vere of Tilbury.
So, Cokayne contradicts himself. What he apparently meant was Brilliana's mother's sister, not Brilliana's sister. Brilliana's mother was Dorothy Bray, née Tracy, sister of Lady Vere of Tilbury.
Other than that, the first Harley earl likely was descended from the Veres, but it would be difficult to trace all his lines. Among his ancestors were Grevilles, Willoughbys, etc.
S. S.
Debrett’s Peerage & Baronetage Database
Lineage of de Vere, Earls of Oxford: Aubrey (Albericus) de Vere (de Vere is a place in Cotentin Peninsula, Normandy), probably a Norman; b by 1040; held numerous manors according to the Domesday Survey chiefly in Cambs, Essex and Suffolk among others; referenced to him as Chamberlain occur ca 1110; Fndr of Earl’s Colne Priory in Essex where he and many of his descendants are bur; Sheriff of Berks by 1106; mar Beatrice; probably d 1112, leaving with an eldest s (dvp 1106) and 4 yst s (Geoffrey; Roger; Robert and William),
Alberic de Vere; b by 1090; described as King’s Chamberlain by 1112; High Sheriff of London and Middx 1121/1122; Jt Sheriff of London and Middx 1125; Jt Sheriff of Bedfords, Bucks, Cambs, Hunts, Norfolk, Suffolk and Surrey 1129 and Essex, Herts, Leics and Northants 1130; Ld Great Chamberlain of England 1133 and thus was held as a hereditary position in the family for many centuries; possibly Chief Justiciar of England 1139; mar Alice (d ca 1163), sis of Gilbert de Clare, 1st Earl of Pembroke (b ca 1100; d 6 Jan 1148); k 15 May 1141 in a riot in London, leaving with other issue,
1. Aubrey, later 1st Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Geoffrey.
3. Gilbert; Prior of the Knights Hospitaller in England 1195-97.
4. Robert, feudal Ld of Twywell, Northants.
5. William; Bp of Hereford 1186-d; one of several who excommunicated Prince John and his supporters in 1194; present at Winchester Cath for the 2nd coronation of Richard I Apr 1194; d unm 24 Dec 1198 (bur at Hereford Cath; MI).
6. Adeliza; mar Henry of Essex (d ca 1170).
7. Juliana; mar 1st, Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk (b 1095; d 1177); mar 2nd, Walkelin Maminot.
8. Rohese; b ca 110; mar 1st, Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex, a prominent nobleman during the reign of King Stephen (d Sept 1144); mar 2nd, Payne de Beauchamp, of Hereford; d 1170 or aft.
The eldest s,
Aubrey de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford [E] (so cr 1142 by the Empress Matilda and recognized later by King Stephen ca 1152-53); b probably ca 1110; Hereditary Ld Great Chamberlain 1141-d; mar 1st ca 1139 (div by 1146), Beatrice, granddau and hrss of Manasses, Comte de Guines, France (whom he suc in that fief late 1139 on doing homage to his overlord, Thierry, Comte de Flanders, though he was obliged to surrender it on his div); mar 2nd by 1152, Euphemia/Eupheme (dspm certainly and dsp probably 1153 or 1154), dau of Wiliam de Cauntelo; mar 3rd 1162 or 1663, Agnes (b 1151; d 1212), dau of Henry de Essex, feudal Ld of Rayleigh and Haughley (d ca 1170), though by which of his wives is unknown though may have been the 1st w, Cicely; d 26 Dec 1194, leaving by his 3rd w with other issue,
1. Aubrey, later 2nd Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Ralph; dvf.
3. Robert, later 3rd Earl of Oxford (see below).
4. William; Bp of Hereford 1186-d; d unm 24 Dec 1198 (bur at Hereford Cath).
5. Adeliza.
6. Sarah.
The eldest s,
Aubrey de Vere, 2nd Earl of Oxford; b in or aft 1163; Sheriff of Essex and Herts 1208-13; Steward of the Forest of Essex 1213; mar 1st, Isabel (dsp 1206-07), dau and hrss of Walter de Bolebec, feudal Ld of Whitchurch; mar 2nd, Alice, dau of Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk; dspl by Oct 1214, leaving an illegit s,
1. Roger; d 1221.
The ygr surv bro,
Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford; b probably aft 1164; said to be one of the many guarantors of the Magna Carta; Justice Itinerant 1220; Justice in the King’s Court at Westminster 1221; mar Isabel (d 3 Feb 1245), sis of Walter de Bolebec and aunt of his elder bro’s 1st w; d by 25 Oct 1221, leaving issue,
1. Hugh, later 4th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Sir Henry, of Great Addingto, Northants; had issue,
2.1. Richard; mar Isabel, dau and ultimate hrss of John Greene, of Drayton.
3. Lady Eleanor; mar as his 1st w, Ralph Gernon (mar 2nd, Hawise Tregoz (?); d 1274).
The eldest s,
Hugh de Vere, 4th Earl of Oxford Kt (1233); b ca 1210; mar aft 11 Feb 1222/23, Lady Hawise, dau of Saer de Quincey, 1st Earl of Winchester (d 3 Nov 1219); d by 23 Dec 1263, leaving issue,
1. Robert, later 5th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Lady Isabel; mar 1st, Sir John de Courtenay, of Okehampton, Devons (see DEVON, E); mar 2nd, Oliver de Dinham, Ld of Dinham.
3. Lady Lora; mar Reynold d’Argentine, of Melbourn, Cambs.
4. Lady Margaret; mar Hugh de Cressy/de Cressi (d shortly bef 24 Apr 1263).
The only s,
Robert de Vere, 5th Earl of Oxford Kt (1264 by Simon de Montfort on the eve of the Battle of Lewes); b ca 1240; supporter of Simon de Montfort and was captured unawares at Kenilworth on 1 Aug 1265 and temporarily deprived of the peerage till the Dictum of Kenilworth came into force 1266 though the office of Ld Great Chamberlain was not restored to him (apparently acted as such at Coronation of Edward I 1274); mar Alice (d 7 Sept 1312), dau and hrss of Gilbert de Sanford; d by 7 Sept 1296, leaving issue,
1. Robert, later 6th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Sir Hugh de Vere, 1st Baron Vere [E] (by writ of summons to Parl dated 6 Feb 1298/99), Kt (by late Aug 1293); b probably between June 1257 and March 1258/59; served in Gascony 1294-97 and Scotland 1299-1318 (present at Siege of Carlaverock); mar Denise, dau and hrss of Sir William de Munchensy, of Swanscombe, Kent; dsp shortly aft 22 May 1319, when the peerage became EXTINCT.
3. Sir Alphonso; allegedly mar Joan, dau of Sir Richard Foliot; d just prior to 20 Dec 1328, leaving issue,
3.1. John, later 7th Earl of Oxford (see below).
4. Thomas.
5. Gilbert; educ Univ of Paris; a cleric; d unm Sept 1289.
6. Philip; educ Univ of Paris; a cleric; d unm.
7. Lady Joan; mar Sir William (b 9 Feb 1256; d 15 Dec 1286), only s and h app of John de Warenne, 6th Earl of Surrey (d 27 Sept 1304), and had with other issue,
7.1. Alice; mar 1305, Edmund Fitzalan, 2nd/9th Earl of Arundel (see NORFOLK, D), and had issue.
8. Lady Hawise; liv 1297; dsp.
The eldest s,
Robert de Vere, 6th Earl of Oxford; b probably ca 24 June 1257; fought the Scots at the Battle of Falkirk 1298; opposed Piers de Gaveston (Royal Favourite of Edward II) but fought for the king against the rebel Earl of Lancaster 1322; unsuccessfully claimed the office of Ld Great Chamberlain restored to him; mar Margaret, sis of Edmund Mortimer, 1st Baron Mortimer; dsps 17 Apr 1331,
1. Sir Thomas (kt 1306); b ca 1282; fought for Edward II against the rebel Earl of Lancaster at Battle of Boroughbridge in March 1321/22; mar by 17 June 1315 (possibly as his 2nd w), Agnes, widow of Payn Tibetot and allegedly dau of William de Ros, of Hamlake; dsp vp by 12 May 1329.
The nephew,
John de Vere, 7th Earl of Oxford; b ca 12 March 1311/12; unsuccessfully claimed the office of Ld Great Chamberlain; campaigned against the Scots and French (present at Battles of Crecy 1340 and Poitiers 1356); mar by 27 March 1336, Maud, widow of Robert FitzPayn and dau of Bartholomew de Badlesmere, 1st Baron Badlesmere; d 23/24 Jan 1359/60 at Siege of Rheims, leaving issue,
1. John; probably b ca Dec 1335; mar probably July 1341, Lady Elizabeth (d 7 Aug 1395), dau of Hugh de Courtenay, 2nd/10th 2nd Earl of Devon (qv); dsp vp by 23 June 1350.
2. Thomas, later 8th Earl of Oxford (see below).
3. Aubrey, later 10th Earl of Oxford (see below).
4. Robert; probably dvp unm.
5. Lady Margaret; mar 1st, Henry Beaumont, 3rd Baron Beaumont (see BEAUMONT of Stoughton Grance, Bt); mar 2nd, Sir Nicholas de Lovain; mar 3rd, Sir John Devereux.
6. Lady Maud; d unm 1359.
7. Lady Elizabeth; mar 1st, 1341, Sir Hugh de Courtenay (see DEVON, E); mar 2nd as his 2nd w, John de Mowbray, 3rd Baron Mowbray (see MOWBRAY, SEGRAVE and STOURTON, B); mar 3rd 18 Jan 1368/69, Sir William de Cosynton; d Aug or Sept 1375.
Thomas de Vere, 8th Earl of Oxford; b probably ca 1336 or 1337; campaigned in France 1359-60, 1369; mar by 10 June 1350, Maud, dau of Sir Ralph de Ufford, Justiciar of Ir (d 1346), ygr bro of Robert de Ufford, 1st Earl of Suffolk KG (b 9 Aug 1298; d 4 Nov 1369); d between 12 and 18 Sept 1371, leaving an only s,
Robert de Vere, 9th Earl of Oxford later 1st Marquess of Dublin [E] (so cr 1 Dec 1385 for life plus the territory and Lordship of Ireland with virtually royal power this also being the first ever creation of a marquessate in peerage history) later still 1st Duke of Ireland [E] (so cr 13 Oct 1386 for in lieu of the marquessate, which was now revoked, with a grant of Ireland and its adjacent islands and all other appurtenances), KG (ca 1385), Kt (1377); b 16 Jan 1361/62; Royal Favourite of Richard II; CJ of Chester Sept 1387; CJ of N Wales Oct 1387; mar 1st by 5 Oct 1376 (div 1387), Philippa (d Oct 1411), dau and cohrss of Enguerrand de Courcy, Earl of Bedford, by Princess Isabel, dau of Edward III; mar 2nd (annulled by papal annulment dated 1398), Agnes Lancerone/Landskron, an attendant (possibly of German origin) of Richard II’s 1st w, Queen Anne of Bohemia); left in exile at the death of Richard II’s forces at the Battle of Radcot Bridge; attainted and sentenced to death in absentia by the Merciless Parl of 1388 and thus had his titles FORFEITED including the Dukedom of Ireland; d 1392 in exile at Louvain, France, when he was suc by his uncle,
Aubrey de Vere, 10th Earl of Oxford (RESTORED Jan/Feb 1392/93 though not the office of Ld Great Chamberlain), PC (1378-80); b ca 1339; Sec to Prince Edward, Prince of Wales 1371; Envoy to negotiate peace with France 1377 and 1383; Constable of Hadleigh Castle 1377/78; Ld Chamberlain by late Jan 1380/81; mar Alice (d 29 Apr 1401), dau of Walter FitzWalter, 3rd Baron FitzWalter (qv); d 23 Apr 1400, leaving issue,
1. Richard, later 11th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. John; dsp.
3. Lady Alice; mar 1st, Guy d’Albon; mar 2nd, Sir John FitzLewis.
The elder s,
Richard de Vere, 11th Earl of Oxford KG (1416); b probably 1385; commanded English troops at Battle of Agincourt 1415; mar 1st by 1400, Lady Alice (dsp young), dau of John de Holland, 1st Duke of Exeter (see ZOUCHE OF HARYNWORTH, B); mar 2nd 1406/07, Alice (mar 3rd, Nicholas Thorley), widow of Guy St Aubyn and dau of Sir Richard Segeaux, of Cornw, by Philippa, bastardised dau of Richard Fitzalan, 10th/3rd Earl of Arundel (see NORFOLK, D); d 15 Feb 1416/17, leaving issue by his 2nd w,
1. John, later 12th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Sir Robert Kt (1426), of Haccombe, Devons; Capt of Caen; Seneschal of Gascony; mar Joan, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew (see CAREW, Bt) and dau of Sir Hugh Courtenay (see DEVON, E), and had issue,
2.1. John; mar Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and dau of Sir Wlater Colbroke, of Kilrington, and had issue,
2.1.1. John, later 15th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2.1.2. Joan.
(continued) Sir Robert was slain 1455 at the Battle of St Albans and had illegit issue,
2.2. John, who was ancestor of the Vere (later Vere-Laurie) family, of Carlton Hall.
3. Sir Richard; mar Margaret (d 22 Sept 1464), widow of Henry Grey, 6th Baron Grey of Codnor (qv) and dau and cohrss of Sir Henry Percy, of Harthill, Yorks.
The eldest s,
John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford Kt (Feb 1425/26), PC (1431); b 23 Apr 1408; mar between 22 May and 31 Aug 1425, Elizabeth, only dau and hrss of Sir John Howard (see NORFOLK, D); beheaded 26 Feb 1461/62 for high treason when the peerage was FORFEITED, leaving issue
1. Sir Aubrey JP (Suffolk 1458); mar ca Apr 1460, Lady Anne, eldest dau of Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham (see STAFFORD, B); dsp 20 Feb 1461/62 having been beheaded 6 days bef his f.
2. John, later 13th Earl of Oxford (see below).
3. Sir George; accompanied his elder bro at the Battle of Barnet and was later attainted though was later restored upon the triumph of Henry VII; Chief Steward of St Osyth’s Priory, Essex 1491; mar Margaret, dau and hrss of Sir William Stafford, of Bishop’s Frome, Herefs; d 1503, leaving issue,
3.1. George; dvp 1498.
3.2. John, later 14th Earl of Oxford (see below).
3.3. Dorothy; mar as his 1st w, John Neville, 3rd Baron Latymer (qv), and had issue.
3.4. Lady Elizabeth; mar Sir Anthony Wingfield KG, MP, of Letheringham, Suffolk (see POWERSCOURT, V), and had issue.
3.5. Ursula; mar 1st, George Windsor; mar 2nd, Sir Edmund Knightly; dsp 1560.
4. Sir Richard; mar as her 2nd w, Margaret, dau of Henry Percy, of Atholl (see NORTHUMBERLAND, D).
5. Sir Thomas; dsp 1489.
6. Mary; a nun at Barking, Surrey.
7. Joane; mar Sir William Norreys, of Yattendon (see LINDSEY and ABINGDON, E), and had issue.
8. Elizabeth.
The 2nd surv s,
John de Vere, 13th Earl of Oxford (RESTORED by Jan 1463/64), KG (1485/86), KB (1465), PC (1485/86); b 8 Sept 1442; Ld Great Chamberlain at Coronations of Henry VII 1485 and Henry VIII 1509; Constable of Tower of London 1485; High Steward of Duchy of Lancs ca 1480s; Ld Steward 1485-86; Cdr of the English Army at the Battle of Stoke Field 1487; Capt of Calais ca 1490s; mar 1st, Lady Margaret, sis of Richard Neville, 1st/16th Earl of Warwick (see ABERGAVENNY, M); mar 2nd between 28 Nov 1508 and 10 Apr 1509, Elizabeth (d 26 June 1537), widow of William Beaumont, 2nd Viscount Beaumont (see BEAUMONT, Bt) and dau of Sir Richard Scrope; dsp 10 March 1512/13,
1. John, of Toddington, Bedfords; mar Anne (d 14 March 1559), dau and hrss of Sir Guy Sapcote, and had issue,
1.1. John; dvp (?).
1.2. Katherine; mar as his 1st w, William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham (see EFFINGHAM, E).
1.3. Anne; mar (by papal disp dated 24 May 1539), Sir Thomas Cheney-Cheyne KG, PC, MP, of Shurland, Isle of Sheppey, Kent, Ld Warden of the Cinque Ports 1536-d (b ca 1485; d 16 Dec 1558)
1.4. Robert.
1.5. Margaret; mar Henry Everard, and had issue.
(continued) 13th Earl of Oxford also had an illegit dau,
1. Katherine; mar Sir Robert Broughton MP, one of the richest landowners in England at the time and one of the supervisors of his f-in-law’s will (d 17 Aug 1506); d aft 20 June 1504, leaving issue.
The nephew,
John de Vere, 14th Earl of Oxford; b 14 Aug 1499; mar Lady Anne (d bef 22 Feb 1588/89), 3rd dau by his 2nd w of Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk (qv); dsp 14 July 1526, when he was suc by his 2nd cousin,
John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford KG (1527), Kt (1513), PC (by late March 1530/31); Esq of Body at Funeral of Henry VII 1509; Sheriff of Essex and Herts 1515-16, 1519-20, 1524-25; Ld Great Chamberlain for life 1526; mar 1st 1493/94, Christian (dsp by 4 Nov 1498), 3rd dau and hrss of Thomas Foderingey, of Brockley, Suffolk; mar 2nd between 29 Apr 1507 and 4 July 1509, Elizabeth, dau and hrss of Edward Trussel, of Kibblestone, Staffs; d 21 March 1539/40, leaving issue by his 2nd w,
1. Lady Elizabeth; b ca 1512; mar Thomas Darcy, 1st Baron Darcy of Chiche KG (b 4 Dec 1506; d 28 June 1558), and had issue.
2. John, later 16th Earl of Oxford (see below).
3. Lady Frances; mar 23 Apr 1532, Sir Henry KG, styled Earl of Surrey, eldest s and h app of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk KG (qv).
4. Hon Aubrey; mar Margaret, dau of John Spring, of Lavenham, Suffolk (d 12 Aug 1547), who was g-g-grandf of Sir William Spring, 1st Bt, of Pakenham, Suffolk (d 17 Dec 1654), and had issue,
4.1. Hugh; mar Eleanor Walsh, and had issue,
4.1.1. Robert, later 19th Earl of Oxford (see below).
4.1.2. Susan; bur 24 Apr 1580.
4.1.3. Margery; bur 31 July 1583.
5. Robert, Ld of the Manor of Wricklemarsh, Kent; b ca 1520; d 28 Apr 1598 (bur at Charlton, St Lukes, Kent).
6. Lady Anne; b ca 1522; mar 1st by 31 Jan 1537/38, Edmund Sheffield, 1st Baron Sheffield (see SHEFFIELD of Normanby, Bt); mar 2nd as his 1st w, John Brock, of Colchester, Essex; bur 14 Feb 1571/72.
7. Geoffrey, of Crepping Hall, Wakes Colne, Essex; b ca 1523; mar Elizabeth, dau of Richard Hardekyn, of Odewell and Wotton and of Gestingthorpe, Essex, and had with other issue,
7.1. John, of Kisby Hall, Essex; mar Thomasine Pater, and had issue.
7.2. Sir Francis; led English forces in helping the Dutch against the Spanish in the Low Countries till 1604; Gov of Brill; dsps 28 Aug 1609.
7.3. Geoffrey; d unm.
7.4. Horatio Vere, 1st Baron Vere, of Tilbury in the County of Essex [E] (so cr 24 July 1625), Kt (1596); b 1565; served Eighty Years War (Sieges of Steenwijk, Groningen and Cadiz; Battle of Nieuwpoort), Thirty Years War (Siege of Breda); Gov of Utrecht 1618; Capt-Gen of English Forces in the Rhenish Palatinate Feb 1621/22; Master-Gen of the Ordnance 1628/29-34; mar Nov 1607, Mary, widow of William Hoby, of Hailes, Gloucs and sis of John Tracy, 1st Viscount Tracy (see SUDELEY, B); dspm 2 May 1635, when the peerage became EXTINCT,
7.4.1. Hon Elizabeth; mar 4 Sept 1626, John Holles, 2nd Earl of Clare (b 13 June 1595; d 2 Jan 1666), and had issue.
7.4.2. Hon Mary; mar 1st, Sir Roger Townshend, 1st Bt, of Raynham, Norfolk (see TOWNSHEND, M); mar 2nd, Mildmay Fane, 2nd Earl of Westmorland KB (qv); bur 18 Nov 1669, leaving issue by both husbands.
7.4.3. Hon Catherine; b ca 1612; mar 1st, Oliver St John, of Lydiard Tregoze, Wilts, eldest s and h app of Sir John St John, 1st Bt, of Tregoze, Wilts (see BOLINGBROKE and ST JOHN, V); mar 2nd aft 6 March 1640/41 as his 2nd w, John Poulett, 2nd Baron Poulett (see WINCHESTER, M); d aft 27 March 1648, leaving issue by her 2nd husband.
7.4.4. Hon Anne; mar 20 June 1637, Thomas Fairfax, 3rd Lord Fairfax of Cameron (qv), and had issue.
7.4.5. Hon Dorothy; mar John, eldest s and h app of Sir John Wolstenholme, 1st Bt, of London (d 1670).
7.5. Frances; mar Sir Robert Harcourt (see VERNON, B), and had issue.
The eldest s,
John de Vere, 16th Earl of Oxford Kt (Feb 1546/47), PC (1553); b ca 1516; served during Boulogne Campaign 1544; Jt Ld-Lt of Essex 1550-53 (sole 1558, 1559-d); Ld Great Chamberlain at Coronation of Mary I 1553 (though aft his f’s death the office had been given to Thomas Cromwell and in 1547 the 16th Earl of Oxford had been declared to have no right to it, nevertheless he was recognized as such at Coronation of Elizabeth I 1558/59 when he acted as such); mar 1st 3 July 1536, Lady Dorothy, 2nd dau of Ralph Neville, 4th Earl of Westmorland (qv), and had issue,
1. Lady Katherine; b ca 1540; mar between 1553 and 1558, Edward Windsor, 3rd Baron Windsor (see PLYMOUTH, E); d 17 Jan 1599/1600.
(continued) 16th Earl of Oxford mar 2nd 1 Aug 1548, Margery (mar 2nd, Charles Tyrrell; d 2 Dec 1568), dau of John Golding; d 3 Aug 1562, leaving further issue by his 2nd w,
1. Edward, later 17th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. Lady Mary; mar 1st between Christmas 1577 and 12 March 1577/78 (sep apparently by 20 Apr 1600), Peregrine Bertie, 13th Baron Willoughby de Eresby (see LINDSEY and ABINGDON); mar 2nd by 2 June 1605 (sep by 15 July 1622) as his 1st w, Sir Eustace Hart, of London (d 18 Sept 1634); d probably 24 June 1624, leaving issue by her 1st husband.
The only s,
Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford PC (ca 1603); b 12 Apr 1550; educ Queen’s Coll Camb, St John’s Coll Camb, Gray’s Inn; a poet and patron of the arts thus being considered as one of the alternative candidates for Shakespeare’s works; mar 1st 19 Dec 1571, Hon Anne, Maid of Honour to Princess Elizabeth later Elizabeth I (b 5 Dec 1556; d 5 June 1588), elder dau of William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley (see EXETER, M), and had issue,
1. A son; b 1583; dvp May 1583 young.
2. Lady Elizabeth; b 2 July 1575; mar 26 June 1594, William Stanley, 6th Earl of Derby (qv); d 10 March 1626/27, leaving issue.
3. Lady Bridget; b 6 Apr 1584; mar 28 Apr 1599, Francis Norris, 1st Earl of Berkshire (see LINDSEY and ABINGDON, E); d between Dec 1680 and May 1631.
4. Lady Susan; b 26 May 1587; mar 27 Dec 1604 as his 1st w, Philip Herbert, 4th Earl of Pembroke and 1st Earl of Montgomery KG (qv); bur 1 Feb 1628/29, leaving issue.
5. A dau; dvp young.
(continued) 17th Earl of Oxford mar 2nd aft 4 July 1591, Elizabeth, Maid of Honour to Elizabeth I (bur 3 Jan 1612/13), eldest dau of Thomas Trentham, of Rocester Priory, Staffs, by Jane, dau of Sir William Sneyd, of Bradwell, Staffs; d 24 June 1604, leaving further issue by his 2nd w,
6. Henry, later 18th Earl of Oxford (see below).
The only surv s by the 2nd w,
Henry de Vere, 18th Earl of Oxford KB (1610); b 24 Feb 1593; educ Inner Temple; served Thirty Years War; imprisoned at Tower of London for criticizing the govt 1622-23; mar 1 Jan 1623/24, Lady Diana (mar 2nd 12 Nov 1629 as his 2nd w, Thomas Bruce, 1st Earl of Elgin, see AILESBURY, M; d 27 Apr 1654), 2nd dau and cohrss of William Cecil, 2nd Earl of Exeter KG (see EXETER, M); dsp between 2 and 9 June 1625 from wounds received previously 15 May at the Siege of Breda, when he was suc by his 2nd cousin,
Robert de Vere, 19th Earl of Oxford (recognized 5 Apr 1626 though not the office of Ld Great Chamberlain as h gen of the 18th Earl of Oxford), Kt (1629); b aft 23 Aug 1575; Capt of Ft in the Dutch Service 1626 and Lt-Col 1629-32; mar bef 1626, Beatrice, dau of Sjierck van Hemmema, of Berlikum, Friesland, by Lijsbeth Jarges, of Groningen; slain 7 Aug 1632 at the Siege of Maastricht, leaving an only s and h,
Aubrey de Vere, 20th Earl of Oxford KG (1660), PC (Jan 1669/70, Jan 1680/81, 1689, 1702); b 28 Feb 1627/28; Col of Royal Regt of Horse 1661-68, 1688-d; Lt-Gen of Horse and Ft 1689; served during Civil War with Royalists; fought at Battle of the Boyne for William III; CJ in Eyre (S of Trent) 1660-73; Ld-Lt of Essex 1660-75, 1675-88 (Jt), 1688-d (sole); unsuccessfully claimed right to act as Ld Great Chamberlain at the Coronation of Charles II 1661; Warden of New Forest 1667; Extra Gent of Bedchamber 1674-77; Gent of Bedchamber 1677-85, 1689-1702; Envoy Extra to France July 1680; High Steward of Colchester 1684-88, 1688-d; Custos Rot of Essex 1689-d; Dep Spkr of HoL 1700-01; mar 1st 18 June 1647, Hon Anne (dsp 14 Sept 1659), dau and cohrss of Paul Bayning, 2nd Viscount Bayning of Sudbury (d 1638); mar 2nd just prior to 12 Apr 1673, Diana, dau of George Kirke, Groom of Bedchamber to Charles I (see also VERNON, B); dspms 12 March 1702/03, when the peerage either became DORMANT or EXTINCT, leaving a sole surv child and hrss,
Lady Diana de Vere; b ca 1679; Lady-in-W and Royal Favourite of Mary II and Groom of Stole to Queen Caroline of Ansbach 1714-17, 1720-37; mar 17 Apr 1694, Charles Beauclerk, 1st Duke of St Albans KG (see Lineage of Beauclerk above); d 15 Jan 1741/42, leaving issue.
Paul Theroff
Here is what I have on the Veres:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/vere.html
on the Harleys:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/harley.html
and the Conways can be found at the bottom of the Somerset page:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/somerset.html
sven_me...@web.de
Sam Marroy
S. S.
History of Parliament: House of Lords 1660-1715 has a section on Harley’s biography related to the choice of title:
Harley’s choice of title also caused problems. On 8 May it was speculated that he was to be made earl of Oxford and this report was repeated over the next few days along with the additional gloss that with the peerage would come appointment as lord treasurer.62 The selection of Oxford provoked the indignation of the Bertie family, who believed that they had a claim to the earldom as descendants of the de Vere family, while Harley himself could claim only a very tenuous connection to a previous holder of the title. The dispute was welcomed by Mainwaring, who told the duchess of Marlborough that ‘nothing has pleased me in all this but to hear the Bertie family is all in arms upon his taking the title of Oxford.’63 On 17 May Peregrine Bertie‡ sought a meeting with Harley to discuss the issue, warning him that his family had previously forestalled an attempt made by Buckingham and Normanby to take the title and they now intended to enter a caveat against Harley assuming the style too.64 Mainwaring thought that Buckingham would also have made ‘a sad splatter about it’, but that ‘his concern for his place keeps him silent.’65 Harley answered the Bertie challenge by pointing out that both the queen and the council considered the title to be in the crown’s gift, but that he would not take it amiss if they entered their caveat. Nevertheless, he remained adamant that the Berties’ caveat would not stop the grant and reiterated his intention of taking the title, insisting that if he did not someone else would do so soon after.66
In the midst of his efforts to settle the question of his title, Harley remained focused on his efforts to make what alterations he could in the administration. Towards the end of May Harcourt sent him a list of likely contenders for county lieutenancies, noting under Herefordshire ‘why not the earl of Oxford?’67 Harley was also subjected to a series of petitions from others eager to secure preferment of one sort or another. On 17 May, George Compton, 4th earl of Northampton, irritated that he was now the only one of those who had waited on the Queen at the Revolution still to be wanting a place, wrote to Harley to remind him of his claim.68 The following day Harley wrote to Marlborough to assure him that he would do what he could to ensure that the new palace at Blenheim would be completed as planned.69 On 21 May it was reported that Harley’s promotion to the Lords would proceed as soon as the South Sea scheme had been passed. Two days later, he was created earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (the latter title being included as a sop to the other claimants on the earldom of Oxford).70 The patent, drawn up by Dr Robert Friend, provoked some derision, at least one commentator noting that it was symptomatic of Oxford’s ‘excessive vanity’.71
The footnotes referenced are the following:
·
62Worcs. RO, Hampton (Pakington) mss, 705:349/4739/1 (i)/53; Add. 61461,
ff. 120-1; Add. 70149, Lady A. Pye to A. Harley, 16 May 1711.
- 63Add. 61461, ff. 124-5.
- 64Add. 70027, f. 168; HMC Portland, iv. 689.
- 65Add. 61461, ff. 124-5.
- 66HMC Ancaster, 442-3.
- 67HMC Portland, iv. 693-4.
- 68Add. 70027, f. 165.
- 69Add. 61125, f. 86.
- 70Add. 72495, ff. 71-2.
- 71Add. 61418, ff. 150-4; Daily Courant, 19 June 1711.
As to your question Marroy of how did different monarchs handle this, I have not the faintest clue. You have to remember no book will ever tell you concisely as to what went on to the choice of title. It is a combination of circumstance, political and family pressures, genealogical justification and a mix of other factors. Some choose certain titles to echo antiquity; others choice it to honor ancestors or relatives; some did it to bolster their own genealogy and connections; some did it for fame and fortune; some did it for the heck of it.
S. S.
As to the Bertie family’s objections, I would point out the several connections of the de Vere family marrying into the Bertie family:
Lady Joane, daughter of the 12th Earl of Oxford marrying Sir William Norreys, of Yattendon, great-grandfather of the 1st Baron Norreys of Rycote. His son was Francis, 1st Earl of Berkshire (see below).
Lady Mary, younger daughter of the 16th Earl of Oxford and sister of the 17th Earl of Oxford marrying as her 1st husband, Robert Bertie, 13th Baron Willoughby de Eresby, and were both thus parents of Robert, 1st Earl of Lindsey and 14th Baron Willoughby de Eresby.
Lady Susan, fourth daughter of the 17th Earl of Oxford marrying Francis Norris, 1st Earl of Berkshire (who was also 2nd Baron Norreys of Rycote and which peerage by writ passed to the present Earls of Lindsey and Abingdon).
S.S.
Sam Marroy
S. S.
OXFORD AND MORTIMER, E (1711-1853)
Arms: Or a bend cotised Sable. Crest: A castle triple-towered Argent issuant out of the middle tower a demi-lion rampant Gules. Supporters: On either side an angel proper habited and wings displayed Or. Motto: Virtute Et Fide (Latin: Virtue and fidelity).
Creations: Baron Harley, of Wigmore in the County of Hereford and Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer [GB] 23 May 1711.
Lineage: The Harley family traces its origins prior to the Norman conquest and were prominent in Salop (taking their name from Harley in that county) and Radnorshire. Another branch of the family that settled in France from England held the titles of Marquis de Champvallon and Comte de Beaumont.
Robert de Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; mar Margaret, dau and cohrss of Sir Bryan de Brampton, Ld of Kinlet, Salop; d 1349, and had issue,
1. Robert; mar Joan Corbet, and had issue,
1.1. Alice; mar Sir Hamond de Pashall.
2. Brian (see below).
3. Walter.
4. Joan; mar Gilbert de Lacy.
The ygr s,
Sir Brian de Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; mar Eleanor Corbet, and had issue,
1. Bryan (see below).
2. Eleanor; mar Sir John Bromwick.
The s and h,
Bryan de Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; mar Isolda Lyngaine, and had issue,
1. Richard.
2. Jeffrey (see below).
The ygr s,
Jeffrey de Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; had illegit issue,
1. Margaret; mar Hugh Wolley.
2. John (see below).
The 2nd s,
Sir John Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; mar Joan Hackluit, and had issue,
1. Richard; mar Catherine Vaughan; dvp 11 March 1529, leaving issue,
1.1. John (see below).
1.2. William.
1.3. Thomas.
1.4. Catherine; mar Roger Hopwood.
2. Alice; mar 1st, Richard Monington; mar 2nd, William Tomkins.
The grands,
John Harley, of Brompton Castle, Herefs; b 1491; mar 1st, Anne Croft/Crofts, and had issue,
1. John (see below).
2. Rev Thomas.
3. William.
4. Edward.
5. Margaret; mar Thomas Adams.
6. Joyce.
7. Elizabeth.
(continued) John mar 2nd Anne Rouse, and had a dau (Alice, who mar Simon Macklew).
The eldest s,
John Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; mar Maud Warncomb, and had issue,
1. John; slain in France.
2. Thomas (see below).
3. William.
4. Richard.
5. Catherine; mar 1st, John Cresset; mar 2nd, John Cornwall, of Burford; d 16 Feb 1623 (aged 84).
6. Elizabeth; mar Giles Nanfan.
7. Jane; mar Roger Minors.
The 2nd surv s,
Thomas Harley, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; b ca 1543; mar 1st, Margaret, only dau of Sir Andrew Corbet MP (b 1 Nov 1522; d 16 Aug 1578), and had issue,
1. Robert (see below).
(continued) Thomas mar 2nd, Anne Griffith, and had further issue by his 2nd w,
2. James; mar 10 Oct 1610, Anne Gardiner (bur 1618); d 14 July 1618, leaving issue,
2.1. Anne; bapt 16 July 1615; bur 27 March 1619.
3. Thomas; bapt 6 Sept 1601; bur vp the same year.
Sir Thomas Harley KB (25 July 1603), JP (Herefs ca 1604- ca 1618, 1622-42, 1644-49), DL (Herefs 1618-42), of Brampton Castle, Herefs; bapt 1 March 1579; educ Oriel Coll Oxf (BA 1599), Middle Temple (admit 1599); Capt of Militia of Ft by 1619-42; Keeper of Bringwood and Prestwood Forests, Herefs 1604- ca 1637; Sheriff of Radnors 1606-07; Dep CJ in Eyre for Herefs 1606-24; Commsnr of Oyer and Terminer: Wales and the Marches 1621-ca 1634, Oxford Circuit 1634-40; Member of the Cncl of the Marches 1623-ca 1633; master of HM Mint 1626-36, 1649-49; mar 1st 13 Feb 1603 (came with £2,300), Anne (d 1 Dec 1603), dau of Charles Barret, of Belhus, Aveley, Essex, and had issue,
1. Thomas; dvp.
(continued) Sir Thomas mar 2nd by 1607, Mary (bur 5 Aug 1622), dau of Sir Francis Newport MP, of High Ercall, Salop, and had further issue by his 2nd w including 8 children (who dvp),
2. John; b 18 Oct 1607 at Brampton Castle; dvp young.
(continued) Sir Thomas mar 3rd 22 July 1623 (came with £1,600), Hon Brilliana (d Oct 1643), dau of Edward Conway, 1st Viscount Conway and 1st Viscount Killultagh (see HERTFORD, M); d 6 Nov 1656, leaving further issue by his 3rd w,
1. Edward (see below)
2. Sir Robert; mar 8 Feb 1670, Edith, widow of Mr Hinton and dau of Mr Pembrugge.
3. Thomas, of Kinsham Court; mar Abigail Saltonstall, and had issue,
3.1. A son; dvp.
3.2. Thomas, of Kinsham Court; b ca 1667; d Jan 1738.
3.3. A son; dsp.
3.4. A son; dsp.
The ygr s,
Sir Edward Harley KB (23 Apr 1661), MP, of Brampton Castle, Herefs; b or bapt 21 Oct 1624; Capt of Horse (Parliamentary) 1643; Col of Ft 1643-47; Col of Horse 1660-61; Gov of Monmouth 1644-45; MP: Herefordshire 1646-48, 1656-58, 1660, 1679-81, 1689-90, 1693-98, New Radnor Boroughs 1661-79; Cnclr of State Feb-May 1660; Custos Rot: Herefs March-July 1660, Radnors March 1660-82; FRS 1663-85; mar 1st 26 June 1654, Mary Button, and had issue,
1. Brilliana; mar Alexander Popham.
2. Martha; mar Samuel Hutchins.
3. Marie; dvp young.
4. Marie (sic); dvp young.
(continued) Sir Edward mar 2nd 25 Feb 1661, Abigail (d 1688), dau of Nathaniel Stephens, of Eastington, Gloucs; d 8 Dec 1700, leaving further issue by his 2nd w,
1. Robert, later 1st Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (see below).
2. Edward; b 7 June 1664; mar Sarah Foley; d 30 Aug 1735, leaving issue,
2.1. Edward, later 3rd Earl of Oxforsd and Earl Mortimer (see below).
2.2. Robert; dvp an infant.
2.3. Robert (sic), of Eywood; b ca 1706; d 15 March 1774.
2.4. Abigail; mar 16 Sept 1724, Hon John Verney (b 23 Oct 1699; d 5 Aug 1741).
3. Brian; dvp young.
4. Abigail; b 1664; d 4 Oct 1726.
5. Nathaniel; bapt 6 March 1665; d Jan 1720 in Aleppo.
The eldest s,
Robert Harley, 1st Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (the utterly unique style of dual peerages, despite it seeming as two peerages, being chosen as to not anger any potential claimants or descendants to the Earldom of Oxford, which had recently become dormant or extinct, see ST ALBANS, D) also Baron Harley, of Wigmore in the County of Hereford [GB] (so cr 23 May 1711 with spec rem, failing h m, to the h m of his grandf, Sir Robert Harley KB), KG (1713), PC (1704-08, 1710-14); b 5 Dec 1661; educ Shilton Sch 1671-80, Foubert’s Academy 1680-81, Middle Temple (admit 1682); MP: Tregony 1689-90, New Radnor Boroughs 1690-1711; Sheriff: Herefs March-Nov 1689; Steward of Crown Manors in Radnors 1691-1714; Spkr of the HoC 1701-05; Custos Rot of Radnors 1702-14; SoS (N Dept) 1704-08; Commsnr for the Union 1706; Chllr of Excheq 1710-11; Ld High Treas 1711-14; Gov of South Sea Co 1711-14; Warden of Sherwood Forest 1712-14; Housekeeper of St James’s Palace May-July 1714; Gov of Charterhouse by 1716; Freeman: New Radnor 1690, Ludlow 1701; FRS 1712; assembled the foundation of the Harleian Library at the British Library; mar 1st 14 May 1685, Elizabeth (d 1691), dau of Thomas Foley MP, of Witley Court, Worcs; mar 2nd 4 Oct 1694, Sarah (dsp 17 June 1737), sis of Sir Hugh Middleton/Myddleton, 1st Bt, of Ruthyn, Denbighs (d 7 Dec 1631); d 21 May 1724, leaving issue by his 1st w (including a ygr s who dvp),
1. Edward, later 2nd Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (see below).
2. Lady Abigail; mar ca 1 Sept 1709, George Henry Hay, 9th Earl of Kinnoull (qv); d 16 July 1750, leaving issue.
3. Lady Elizabeth; mar 16 Dec 1712 as his 1st w, Peregrine Hyde Osborne, 3rd Duke of Leeds (b 11 Nov 1691; d 9 May 1731); d 20 Nov 1713, leaving issue.
The only surv s,
Edward Harley, 2nd Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer; b 2 June 1689; educ Westminster, Christ Church Oxf (MA 1712; Hon DCL 1730); MP: New Radnor Boroughs 1711-15, Cambridgeshire 1722-24; High Steward of Cambridge 1728-d; V-Pres of St George’s Hosp 1733; Fndr Gov of Foundling Hosp 1739; Freeman: Ludlow 1711, New Radnor 1714, Edinburgh 1725; mar 31 Aug 1713 (came with £13,500), Lady Henrietta (d 1755), only dau and cohrss of John Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle-upon-Tyne KG (see LINCOLN, E); dspms 16 June 1741,
1. Lady Margaret; b 1715; mar 11 July 1734, William Bentick, 2nd Duke of Portland KG (see PORTLAND, E); d 17 July 1785, leaving issue.
2. Henry, styled Baron Harley; b 18 Oct and dvp 22 Oct 1725.
The 1st cousin,
Edward Harley, 3rd Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer; b ca 1699; educ Westminster, Christ Church Oxf (Hon DCL 1737); MP (Tory): Herefordshire 1727-41; High Steward of Hereford 1746; Harleian Tstee of Brit Mus 1753-55; mar 16 March 1725, Martha, dau of John Morgan MP, of Tredegar, Monmouths (d 7 March 1720); d 11 Apr 1755, leaving issue,
1. Edward, later 4th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (see below).
2. Rt Rev and Hon John DD; b 29 Sept 1728; educ Christ Church Oxf (matric 1747; BA 1749; MA 1752; DD 1778); Archdeacon: Salop 1760-69, Hereford 1769-87; Bp of Hereford 1787-d; mar 23 Feb 1770, Roach, dau and cohrss of Gwyn Vaughan, of Trebarried, Brecons; d 7 Jan 1788, leaving issue,
2.1. Edward, later 5th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (see below).
2.2. Rev John; b 31 Dec 1774; d unm 20 Oct 1815.
2.3. Frances; b ca 1782; d unm 25 Nov 1848.
2.4. Martha; d unm 25 Jan 1824.
3. Thomas PC, of Berrington Hall, nr Eyre, Herefs (built 1778-81) and of Hooley House, nr Croydon, Surrey; b 24 Aug 1730; educ Westminster 1738-48; Col of London Militia 1771-94; Pres of Hon Artillery Co 1773-80; Capt of Herefs Yeo 1794; MP for Herefordshire 1761-74, 1774-1801, 1801-d; Alderman of London 1761-d; Sheriff of London 1763-64; Ld Mayor of London 1767-68; Mayor of Shrewsbury 1784-85; Ld-Lt of Radnors 1791-d; Pres of St Bartholomew’s Hosp 1769-d; mar 15 March 1751, Anne, dau of Edward Bangham MP, Dep Auditor of the Imprest and Bailiff of Leominster 1689, 1695 (d 1712 or 1713); d 1 Dec 1804, leaving issue,
3.1. Martha; mar 30 Dec 1779, George, of Stanmore, Middx (b 1758; d 6 March 1789), eldest s and h of John Drummond MP, of the same, by Charlotte, eldest dau of Lord William MP, 2nd s of Charles Beauclerk, 1st Duke of St Albans KG (qv); d Aug 1788, leaving issue.
3.2. Anne; b 13 May 1759; mar 10 Apr 1781, George Rodney, 2nd Baron Rodney (qv); d 14 Apr 1840, leaving issue.
3.3. Sarah; b 19 Oct 1760; mar 3 June 1781 as his 2nd w her 3rd cousin, Robert Auriol Hay-Drummond, 10th Earl of Kinnoull (qv); d 15 Feb 1837, leaving issue.
3.4. Elizabeth; mar 8 Oct 1783, David MP (b 10 May 1748; d 8 May 1794), ygr bro of Alexander Murray, 7th Lord Elibank (qv); d 9 July 1824, leaving issue.
3.5. Margaret; mar Sir John Boyd, 2nd Bt, of Danson, Kent (b 1750; d 20 May 1815); d 20 Nov 1830, leaving issue.
4. Rev Hon William; d unm 8 July 1769.
5. Lady Sarah; d 1737.
6. Lady Martha; mar 20 Apr 1764, Charles Milborne, of The Priory, Abergavenny, Monmouths, and had issue.
The eldest s,
Edward Harley, 4th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer; b 2 Sept 1726; MP for Herefordshire 1747-55; High Steward of Hereford 1755-90; Ld of Bedchamber to George III 1760-90; Ld-Lt of Radnors 1766-d; Steward of the Royal Manor of Melenydd 1768; Harleian Tstee for Brit Mus 1755-90; mar 11 July 1750, Susanna (b ca 1728; d Nov 1804), dau of William Eyre (later Archer) MP, of Welford, Berks, by his 2nd w, Susanna, dau of Sir John Newton, of Barr’s Court, Gloucs; dsp 8 Oct 1790, when he was suc by his nephew,
Edward Harley, 5th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer; b 20 Feb 1773; Maj Herefs Militia; Maj-Cmdt of Radnors LI 1819; Recorder of Hereford; Steward of the Royal Manor of Melenydd; mar 3 May 1794, Jane Elizabeth, Mistress of 6th Baron Byron (qv) and whose numerous love affairs gave rise to the doubt of the paternity of her children and were thus derisively called the “Harleian Miscellany” (b ca 1773; d 20 Nov 1824), dau of Rev James Scott, Vicar of Itchen, Stoke, Hants, by Jane Elizabeth, dau of Henry Harmood, Commsnr of Bankruptcy; d 28 Dec 1848, leaving issue,
1. Lady Jane Elizabeth; b 2 March 1796; mar 17 Aug 1835, Henry Bickersteth, 1st Baron Langdale (b 18 June 1783; d 18 Apr 1851); dsp 1 Sept 1872.
2. Edward, styled Baron Harley; b 20 Jan 1800; dvp 1 Jan 1828.
3. Lady Charlotte Mary; b 12 Dec 1801; mar 4 March 182, Maj Anthony (b 1796; d 2 July 1864), s of Anthony Bushby Bacon, of Elcot Park, Kintbury, Berks (d 11 Aug 1827); d 9 May 1880.
4. Lady Anne; b 31 July 1803; mar 1836, Signor Giovanni Battista Rabitti, Cavaliere San Giorgio (b 3 Nov 1797; d 5 Nov 1844); d 18 May 1874.
5. Lady Frances; b 26 Jan 1805; mar 20 Apr 1835, Lt-Col Henry (b 1791; d 26 Feb 1853), s of Most Rev Edward Venables-Vernon-Harcourt DD, Archbp of York 1791-1807 (see VERNON, B); d 15 Oct 1872, leaving issue.
6. Alfred, later 6th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer (see below).
7. Hon Mortimer; b 17 Dec 1811; dvp 3 Apr 1812.
8. Lady Louisa; dvp young.
The 2nd but only surv s,
Alfred Harley, 6th Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer; b 10 Jan 1809; mar 17 Feb 1831, Eliza (b 1806; d 1877), illegit dau of George Thomas John Nugent, 1st Marquess of Westmeath (see WESTMEATH, E); dsp 19 Jan 1853, when all the peerages became EXTINCT.
S.S.
Chris Pitt Lewis
The footnote in CP vol X p.234, stating that Alice, dau of Aubrey de Vere 10th Earl of Oxford, m.(1) Guy d’Albon and (2) Sir John FitzLewis, is wrong and ought not to be perpetuated.
Her two husbands were (1) Sir Francis Court and (2) Lewis John.
She died ca 1431 and Lewis John subsequently married Anne
Montagu, dau of the 8th Earl of Salisbury.
Sir Francis Court was a Lombard knight naturalised in England 9 oct 1406, who had been Keeper of Pembroke Castle. He died 11 sep 1413 according to his IPM taken at Andover Hants 11 dec 1413.
Lewis John, knighted in 1439, married Alice sometime before 1 jan 1414, when they had a royal pardon for marrying without licence. He was a Welshman without a surname (Lewis ap John), settled in London. See his biography in the History of Parliament 1386-1421:
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/john-lewis-1442
There was also a useful discussion on the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup in 2003 (thread titled "Mordaunt and FitzLewis - CP error?"), available here:
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/vgmn9SnRlow/m/qEFrjh27uHIJ
His descendants used the surname FitzLewis, and were settled in Essex. Earlier generations of Essex historians clearly had difficulty getting their heads round Welsh patronymics, and assumed that he must also have been "FitzLewis", hence the reversal of his name as "Sir John FitzLewis".
As for "Guy d'Albon", it looks as though Alice must have been
confused with her sister in law and namesake, Alice, wife of the
11th Earl of Oxford, whose first husband is said to be Guy de St
Aubyn.
Chris Pitt Lewis
nice.
Here is what I have on the Veres:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/vere.html
on the Harleys:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/harley.html
and the Conways can be found at the bottom of the Somerset page:
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/somerset.html
On Friday, October 31, 2025 at 2:04:41 PM UTC-5 S. S. wrote:
Here is what I have on the de Vere family, Earls of Oxford:
<snip>
Aubrey de Vere, 10th Earl of Oxford (RESTORED Jan/Feb 1392/93 though not the office of Ld Great Chamberlain), PC (1378-80); b ca 1339; Sec to Prince Edward, Prince of Wales 1371; Envoy to negotiate peace with France 1377 and 1383; Constable of Hadleigh Castle 1377/78; Ld Chamberlain by late Jan 1380/81; mar Alice (d 29 Apr 1401), dau of Walter FitzWalter, 3rd Baron FitzWalter (qv); d 23 Apr 1400, leaving issue,
1. Richard, later 11th Earl of Oxford (see below).
2. John; dsp.
3. Lady Alice; mar 1st, Guy d’Albon; mar 2nd, Sir John FitzLewis.
The elder s,
Richard de Vere, 11th Earl of Oxford KG (1416); b probably 1385; commanded English troops at Battle of Agincourt 1415; mar 1st by 1400, Lady Alice (dsp young), dau of John de Holland, 1st Duke of Exeter (see ZOUCHE OF HARYNWORTH, B); mar 2nd 1406/07, Alice (mar 3rd, Nicholas Thorley), widow of Guy St Aubyn and dau of Sir Richard Segeaux, of Cornw, by Philippa, bastardised dau of Richard Fitzalan, 10th/3rd Earl of Arundel (see NORFOLK, D); d 15 Feb 1416/17, leaving issue by his 2nd w,
<snip>
S. S.
Volume 10, pages 205, 206:
He [Aubrey de Vere III, Earl of Oxford (d. 1194)] m., 3rdly, in 1162 or 1163, Agnes, da. of Henry DE ESSEX, Lord of Rayleigh and Haughley,(c) by his wife Cicely.(d)
Note c:
Henry de Essex was son (by his 1st wife, Gunnor Bigod) of Robert de Essex (FitzSuein), who m., 2ndly, Aubrey's sister Alice. For his ancestry see Fry, Essex Arch. Soc. Trans., vol. v, pp. 101-15.
Note d:
Dugdale, Mon., vol. iv, p. 82.
On the question of whether Henry's father Robert was the same Robert de Essex who married Aubrey's sister Alice, see under The Early Veres, volume 10, appendix J, page 115 and note i.
Rosie Bevan, in April 2003, suggested that Agnes's mother, Cicely, may have been a daughter of Roger de Valognes by his wife Agnes, sister of Payn fitz John.
[Item last updated: 15 June 2003.]
Volume 10, page 210:
He [Aubrey (de Vere), Earl of Oxford (d. 1214)] m., 2ndly, Alice, said to be da. of Roger (BIGOD), 2nd EARL OF NORFOLK,(d) who brought him the lordship of Prayers in Hedingham Sible.
Note d:
Milles, op. cit. [Catalogue of Honor?], p. 677. So also Brooke, Catalogue, p. 169; and Vincent passes this statement without comment (op. cit. [Discoverie of Errours], p. 401). It may be derived from the Book of Colne Priory. Prima facie it seems unlikely that Aubrey would marry the da. of his 1st cousin; but his uncle Robert de Vere of Drayton married his 1st cousin Margaret, da. of Baldwin FitzGilbert (Stenton, Early Northants Charters, no. XXXI). If Alice were the da. of Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk, by his 2nd wife, there would be no relationship.
In addition, the list of Roger Bigod's children in the Liber Vitæ of Durham does not include a daughter Alice (see Norfolk, vol. 9, p. 589).
S.S.