Josiah Child, d.1774

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Sir Horace Mann to Horace Walpole, 26 July 1774, mentions the death of "Mr Child", nephew of the 2nd Earl Tylney, who died. A footnote in the Yale Edition of the Correspondence identifies him as Josiah Child, who d. at Florence 5 July 1774 (burial mentioned in Miscellanea genealogica et heraldica, 1898, 3rd series ii 182).

The sources I have seen mention no nephew named "Josiah Child". They give the 2nd Earl an elder brother, Viscount Castlemaine, who dsp 1734, a younger brother called "Josiah" who was in the army, and a sister, Emma, who married Sir Robert Long, 6th Bt.

The Josiah Child in question could not be Emma's son. Mann went on to say "My Lord's other nephews, the Longs, will not be sorry for this event, though he never intended to deprive them of his landed estates and Wansted, but a few thousands are capable of creating an enmity between relations, however rich they are."

Could the Josiah Child who died in 1774 be an illegitimate son of Viscount Castlemaine, or of the younger brother, Josiah? He is unlikely to have been legitimate, since Lord Tyleny had apparently already determined to leave his estates to his sister's sons.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Later in the same letter Mann writes: "Lord Tylney is expected here [Florence] next week, and probably his first occupation will be to destroy the rich codicils infavour of Joe, which are in my keeping. He will be at a loss to find an heir to them, but now he mahy be happy, as the only object of his uneasiness as well as of his affection is removed."

One other possibility: Could Josiah actually be Tylney's own illegitimate son?

[dpth...@gmail.com]

On a related matter, Complete Peerage says about the death of the 2nd Earl Tylney: "He d. unm. 17 Sep. and was bur. 16 Dec. 1784 at Wanstead..."

Gentleman's Magazine 1784 makes it clear why there was such a delay in burying him: he died at Naples.

"17 Sep. In an advanced age, at Naples, where he had resided many years, John Earl Tylney of the kingdom of Ireland. He was the grandson of Sir Josiah Child, and son of Richard Earl Tylney, who, April 17, 1718, was created Viscount Castlemaine, and, Jan 21. 1731, Earl Tylney. Dying without issue, his title is extinct. He has left his fine seat at Wanstead, in Essex, and his estates, to his nephew Sir James Tylney Long, bart. who was lately M.P. for the Devizes."

[S. S.]

Wikipedia entry for the 1st Earl Tylney lists a younger brother for John, 2nd Earl Tylney, named Josiah: 

"Josiah (1718-1760), a Lieutenant or Captain in the Royal Navy, likely to be the officer depicted by Nollekens seated dressed in a blue coat. He seems never to have changed his surname to "Tylney". He married Mrs Henrietta Wymondsold (1729–1763), divorced wife of Charles Wymondsold of Lockinge, Berkshire, only daughter of Robert Knight, 1st Earl of Catherlough. They had a son, Josiah, born shortly before their marriage, who was brought up by his uncle, but died in Florence on 5 July 1774, aged 20. Both Josiah and Henrietta had their portraits painted by Francis Cotes, which are now in the collection of Lydiard Park, Swindon". 

There is the footnote that states "Josiah is not noted by most sources except www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk 'Tylney, Earl'".

 If you look right after the date of death mentioned for Josiah who is given as dying in 1774, it references Neil Jeffares's Pastels & Pastellists (2006) and gives the genealogy under the entry of "Cotes".

Maybe a place to start research with. 

S.S.

[S. S.]

When I mention Jeffares's work, I am referring to Ms Cotes, the painter, who painted Josiah (1718-1760) and his wife, Henrietta, which can be found at Lydiard Park (via Wikipedia). 

S.S.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Thanks! That answers who he was, and since he was born before marriage that explains why the Longs were already considered the main heirs.

As for Josiah the elder not being noted by most sources, I believe that he is listed in Burke's Extinct Peerage.

[S. S.]

Well, Burke’s Extinct Peerage (1883), p 118 gives a rather perfunctory mention of Josiah the elder:

“III. Josiah, lieut. of dragoons.”. That is it. 

S.S.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Yes, that's what I was saying. However, sub Knight, they list Henrietta and her marriage to Hon. Josiah Child, though not the supposed Wymondsold marriage.

[S. S.]

Well, if you look under the Wikipedia entry for the 1st Earl of Catherlough, you will find mention of Henrietta's marriage to Hon Josiah, and their son, who is listed as dying in 1774. It also lists Henrietta dying during childbirth while involved with another man, Comte de Roure. References are yet again given for Cracroft's website and Jeffares's work. 

S.S.

[S. S.]

If you look in W. H. Hallam, History of the Parish of East Lockinge (1900), you will find the following reference:

 

East Lakinge " mentioned in the list of Abbey possessions

in the Reign of Henry VIII. All trace however, of any

original buildings would have been lost (if they existed so

late) in 1821, when the entire homestead was destroyed by

fire.

Matthew Wymondsold died in 1757, at Stanstead, but was

buried at Lockinge in the vault of the Lords of the Manor,

where his wife and a son had previously been buried.

He had served as Sheriff of the county in 1737. His sons

successively held the Manor.

Francis Wymondsold died in 1759.

William Wymondsold died in 1779.

Charles Wymondsold, who was Sheriff in 1760, married

as his first wife the daughter of Robt. Knight, Esq., after-

wards created Lord Luxboro' of the kingdom of Ireland, and

M.P. for Castle Rising, and afterwards made Earl of

Castlereagh. Of his second wife, it is not known out of what

family she sprang, but she is believed to have been of Irish

extraction, as she had a mother living in that country whom

she crossed the channel to visit with Mr. Wymondsold soon

after they were married.

 

Mr. Wymondsold died August 23rd, 1776, leaving his

estates to his widow Sara, who some time before 1790,

married as her second husband, John Pollexfen Bastard,

Esq., a member of a well known and wealthy family who

had been settled in Devonshire since the Conquest.

 

S.S.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

No mention of the Child/Knight marriage in Gentleman's Magazine, nor the Wymondesold/Knight marriage, but Charles Wymondesold died in 1776:

Gentleman's Magazine, xlvi 435:

"Deaths
Aug 23 1776:
Charles Wymondesold, Esq, In Berkshire"

[S. S.]

Well, looks like I have found quite a lot of info on the Wymondesold link via an article by Pat Rogers, The Second Mrs. Wymondesold", Huntington Library Quarterly, vol 69, no 4 (Dec 2006), pp 607-616. I will attach a copy of the PDF since I have access to JSTOR. Read through it since it is quite dense in info.

S.S.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Very interesting reading about all these people!

I can add only the quote from Mann's letter mentioned in the article:

Mann to Walpole, 2 February 1753:

"Lord Tylney was much shocked last night on hearing the terrible accident that has happened to his brother, which, however, in the main can be of no great consequence to him, if he had time to secure the money he had in the funds. They have all long dreaded his ruin by that woman, and have often given him warning of it. I believe too that he was on the point of leaving her, for his relations wrote by the very last post to Lord Tylney that Mr Child had resolved to make him a visit in Italy..."

A footnote shows that the "terrible accident" was the lawsuit for criminal conversation brought by Charles "Wymondsal" against Hon. Josiah Child.


Also, Complete Peerage has few details about "Mary, Lady Le Quesne, widow", the second wife of Lord Catherlough. A footnote in the Yale Edition of the Walpole Correspondence descrobes her as having married 1stly in 1738 "Sir John Lequesne, Kt and Alderman of London". She lived at Twickenham, near Walpole, later in life.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

For points of reference, here is what I have cobbled together on the Knight and Child families:


Robert Knight, of Barrells, co Warwick (17 Dec 1702-30 Mar 1772), cr 1745 Baron Luxborough of Shannon [I], cr 14 May 1763 Earl of Catherlough and Viscount Barrells [I]; m.1st 10 Jun 1727 Hon. Henrietta St.John (15 Jul 1699-26 Mar 1756); m.2nd 18 Jun 1756 “Mary, Lady Le Quesne, widow” (d.1795)
1.Henry (25 Dec 1728-15 Aug 1762); m.21 Jun 1750 Frances Heath (d.in a convent in France 1782), later wife of Earl of Deloraine
2.Henrietta; m.1st Charles Wymondesold; m.2nd Hon. Josiah Child (d.1759); in 1762 she went through some form of marriage to Louis-Alexandre de Grimoard de Beauvoir, Cte de Roure, and had a son with him
[Lord Catherlough’s illegitimate sons by Jane Davies]:
3.Robert Kinght, of Barrells (3 Mar 1768-5 Jan 1855), who inherited his father’s estates; m.12 Jun 1791 Hon. Frances Dormer (1776-18 Dec 1842)
3.1.son, whom his father repudiated after he sued Col. Fuller for crim. con.
3.2.Frances Elizabeth
3.3.Georgiana, d.1858; m.1828 Edward Bolton King, of Umberslade and Chadshunt (1801-    )
3.4.dau
4.Henry Raleigh Knight, d.1836; m. ___ Boulton
4.1.Raleigh
4.2.dau
4.3.dau




Sir Josias Childe, of Wanstead, cr Baronet 1678, d.22 Jun 1699; m.1st 26 Dec 1654 Hannah Boate (bur 29 Jul 1662); m.2nd 1663 Mrs Mary Stone, née Atwood; m.3rd  1676 Mrs Emma Willoughby, née Barnard (d.16 Oct 1725)
[by 1st m.]:
1.Elizabeth; m.John Howland; her dau m. Duke of Bedford
2. – 3. two sons, d.young
[by 2nd m.]:
4.Sir Josiah CHILD, 2nd Bt. (ca 1668-20 Jan 1704); m.10 Mar 1691 Elizabeth Cooke (bur 26 Jan 1741)
5.Rebecca, d.17 Jul 1712; m.1st 5 Jun 1682 Charles Somerset, Marquess of Worcester (Dec 1660-13 Jul 1698); m.2nd 15 Apr 1703 John Granville, Lord Granville of Potheridge (12 Apr 1665-3 Dec 1707)
6.Mary; m.1st Edward Bullock, of Faulkbourn Hall; m.2nd ___ Hutchinson
[by 3rd m.]:
7.Bernard, d.Jun 1698
8.Sir Richard, 3rd Bt., cr 1718 Viscount Castlemaine and Baron Newtown [I], cr 1731 Earl Tylney of Castlemaine [I] (bap 5 Feb 1680-Aix Mar 1750); took surname TYLNEY 1734 for himself and his sons; m.22 Apr 1703 Dorothy Glynne (d.23 Feb 1744), whose mother was a Tylney and who inherited the vast estates of that family
8.1.Richard, Viscount Castlemaine, d.19 Feb 1734
8.2.John, 2nd Earl Tylney (bap 22 Oct 1712-Naples 17 Sep 1784)
8.3.Josiah, who seems to have retained the surname “Child”, d.1759; m.27 May 1754 Lady Henrietta Wymondsold, née Knight, dau of Earl of Catherlough
8.3.1.[born before marriage?] Josiah, d.Florence 5 Jul 1774;  Mann to Wapole, 26 July 1774, mentions the death of "Mr Child", nephew of Earl Tylney, who died Florence 5 July 1774
8.4.Emma, d.8 Mar 1758; m.29 May 1735 Sir Robert Long, 6th Bt. (1705-10 Feb 1767); her son took the additional surname of Tylney
8.5.Dorothy, d.1786; she is not mentioned in some genealogies; GM 1786 reports the death "Lately, in Hampshire, Lady Dorothy Child, aunt to Sir James Tylney Long, bart." Conway to Walpole, 14 July 1751, also mentioned a "Lady Dorothy" in connection with Lord Tylney.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

and here is the portion of the Long family descended from the Childs:

Sir Robert LONG, 6th Bt. (1705-10 Feb 1767); m.29 May 1735 Lady Emma Child (d.8 Mar 1758), dau of Richard Child, Earl Tylney, by Dorothy Glynne, which Dorothy’s mother was Dorothy Tylney
1.Sir James, 1784 TYLNEY-LONG, 7th Bt. (1736-28 Nov 1794); m.1st 10 Jul 1775 Hon. Harriet Bouverie (17 Oct 1736-dsp 12 Nov 1777); m.2nd 26 Jul 1785 Lady Catherine Sidney Windsor (1755-5 Jan 1823)
1.1.Sir James, 8th Bt. (1794-14 Sep 1805)
1.2.Catharine (2 Oct 1789-12 Sep 1825); m.14 Mar 1812 William Wellesley-Pole, 1812 Pole-Tylney-Long-Wellesley, 4th Earl of Mornington (22 May 1788-1 Jul 1857)
1.3.Dorothy, d.29 Nov 1872
1.4.Emma, d.16 Jul 1879
2.Robert, d.1739
3.Richard, d.young
4.Charles; m.May 1771 Hannah Phipps
4.1.Emma; m.Wiliam Scrope, of Castle Combe
5.Dorothy
6.Emma

[S. S.]

Another rabbit hole mystery that has been elucidated. You never know what you get in the peerage. 

S.S.

[S. S.]

Also, Sir John Le Quesne/Lequesne was Sheriff of London 1739 alongside George Heathcote, who was later MP for Hindon and Lord Mayor of London 1742. One thing I also noted is the Knight connection between Jane Austen's brother, Capt Edward Austen (d 19 Nov 1852), who was adopted into the Knight family and served as their heir, having taken their surname too. 

S.S.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Yes, but isn't that an entirely separate Knight family?

[S. S.]

Now that you mention it, I am not sure. I will have to look into it.

S.S.

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

Henrietta Knight

F, #527847, b. 1729, d. 26 February 1763

https://thepeerage.com/p52785.htm#i527847