Earl of Sandwich 1943-2025

[LoopyCrown3]

John Edward Hollister Montagu 11th Earl of Sandwich passed away on the 1st February 2025. Son of Victor Montagu 10th Earl (Disclaimed Peerages in 1964) and Rosemary Peto.

John married Caroline Hayman in 1968 and had three children:

Luke, Viscount Hinchingbrooke b.1969 Will become 12th Earl once proven his claim. Luke married Julie Fisher in June 2004 has two sons William b. Nov 2004 and Nestor b.2006 

The Hon. Orlando Montagu b.1971

Lady Jemima Montagu b.1973 

[colinp]

Family share heart-warming tribute to Earl of Sandwich | Dorset Echo

[dpth...@gmail.com]

So "The American Viscountess" is now "The American Countess" if she continues her TV ventures.

https://www.youtube.com/americanviscountess



for some genealogy:

https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/montagu.html

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Thanks for the post, LoopyCrown3.

The new (12th) earl's full name is Luke Timothy Charles MONTAGU.

Although DPB hasn't updated this page yet, based on the current page, the line of succession should be as follows:

1. William James Hayman, styled in his father's old courtesy title, , Viscount Hinchingbrooke, b. 2004

2. Hon. Nestor John Sturges, 2nd son of the 12th Earl, b. 2006

3. Hon Aneurin David SF, 3rd son of the 12th Earl, b. 2014

4. Hon. Kit James SF, 4th and youngest son of the 12th Earl, b. 2017

5. Hon. Orlando William, brother of the 12th Earl, b. 1971

6. Walter Frederick, son of #5, b. 2005, also,  a maternal grandson of the Marquess of Douro

This is one title that has plenty of heirs.

Brooke

[https:/www.maltagenealogy.com/LeighRayment/]

Walter Frederick, son of #5 material grandson of the present Duke of Wellington, etc, etc.

I thought there are only two sons by the present Earl, as the new Countess, was formerly married with children.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

"John Montagu, Earl of Sandwich, born on 11th April 1943, died peacefully on 1st February 2025 at home with his family."

Source: The Telegraph, 8 February 2025

On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 12:37:25 PM UTC-6 LoopyCrown3 wrote:

[bx...@yahoo.com]

maltagenealogy, I just listed them as they currently appear in DPB Online. 

Viscount Hinchingbrooke, now the new Earl, is listed with one wife and the 4 sons.  At least on the current page, it appears all 4 sons are from the Viscountess (now the Countess.)

We'll see if it changes when the page gets updated.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Doing a little bit of research and finding some articles,  it looks like the new Countess has 2 children, Emma and Jack from her first marriage, and two sons,  William and Nestor, with the Earl.

So who are Aneurin and Kit?

Hopefully, Debrett's will have some answers.

Brooke

[LoopyCrown3]

From what I have seen from their YouTube channels they only have two children together William and Nestor. Never seen them mention Aneurin or Kit

[Patricia Light]

The article from the Dorset Echo as posted by Colin, in the Dorset Echo, that the Earl had 3 children & 10 Grandchildren (even if they counted the new Countess's children from her 1st marriage) then that still leaves 1 grandchild not listed in DPB. In GRO if you enter the names MONTAGU & FISHER there is definitely an Aneurin and Kit, but of course you would need access to the actual certificates to be 100% sure
https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/24918930.family-share-heart-warming-tribute-earl-sandwich/

[Richard R]

Here's the full notice from the Telegraph of 8 Feb 2025: SANDWICH John Montagu, Earl of Sandwich, born on 11th April 1943, died peacefully on 1st February 2025 at home with his family. No flowers. Donations please to Christian Aid for South Sudan.

[Isabelle Maltais]

Hello,  I discovered the néw Countess YouTube channel (American Viscountess) last summer. And  I quicly start to watch it's content. And I loved it. 

Thank you in advance,

Isabelle.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Re: Aneurin and Kit.  It's a little amusing to think that Debrett's may have actually listed MORE children for a couple, because we are always complaining (and rightly so) about missing kids or grandkids.

Hopefully, we will have some sort of answer, once DPB Online updates the Sandwich page.

Brooke

[Patricia Light]

https://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/ - Marlene Konig at Royal Musing has a couple of interesting articles on the Earl of Sandwich title. Firstly about a former American Countess and the present day Earl & Countess.

[Dapifer de Truchsess]

I would say, that yesterday I just so happened to watch the American Viscountess, from the most recent episode on Owlpen Manor etc. uploaded a few days ago), wherein Lady Mander referred to the now Countess and her "four children". This would then point that it is her two from her previous marriage, and her two from her current. 

[Isabelle Maltais]

Hello, It looks like the deceased daughter and husband have a daughter.

Do you have her full names and birth infos?

Thank you in advance,

Isabelle 

[Patricia Light]

Lady Jemima Montagu & her husband Fisnik Abrashi have two children : LEO ART ABRASHI B.2014 & LETTICE HANNA ABRASHI B.2014 (TWINS) GRO REG Q1 CAMDEN (mother's name MONTAGU)

Also noted in the article in the Dorset Echo on the death of 11th Earl of Sandwich was that he adopted his nephew TIMOTHY BODY B.1982 (changed his name by deed poll to MONTAGU IN 2000) He is the son of Lady Julia Montagu (1947-1995) & her husband Peter Body. https://www.thepeerage.com/p47433.htm#i474323 as shown on the peerage.com website.

TIMOTHY  married 2009 to Hon Pollyanna Maria Clare Harmsworth b.1981 (daughter of Thomas, 3rd Baron Harmsworth & Patricia Horsley) Timothy & Pollyanna have two children: AMELIA FAYE JULIA B.2011 & THEODORE ALFRED JAMES B.2015 (both in DPB)

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Well, my peerage friends,  DPB Online has updated the Sandwich page.

As expected, Luke Timothy Charles MONTAGU is now the 12th Earl and his eldest son, WILLIAM JAMES HAYMAN is now styled in his father's old courtesy title, Viscount Hinchingbrooke.

But our confusion continues somewhat, as they do list both the Hon. Aneurin and the Hon. Kit each as a "Son Living" for the new Earl and Countess.

Brooke

[Robert Jewell]

See if I can do this: I found a picture of the new Earl and Countess with "their children": https://www.theamerican.co.uk/pr/images/int-julie-montagu-BOTTOM.jpg

[Robert Jewell]

Caption says "Julie with her children and husband"

[BREMENMURRAY]

The Times 11 February 2025 has an obit. A life  well lived in the best traditions of the aristocracy

[colinp]

Does the Times obit mention children?

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Separate from the American Viscountess channel, there is a Mapperton Live (though usually not "live") channel on Youtube, offering videos about life at Mapperton.

https://www.youtube.com/@MappertonLive

[LoopyCrown3]

In her most recent Instagram post the new Countess wrote about her birthday yesterday 17th Feb in which she said "The evening brought more Italian delights—dinner off the King’s Road at La Famiglia, one of my favourites. While three of my four children are scattered—one in Brazil, one at university, and one still at school—I had one child and my husband with me for dinner, which made the day all the more special." 

[bx...@yahoo.com]

So who, pray tell, are  the Hon. Anuerin and the Hon. Kit? 

It doesn't, at least, sound like they are children of the new Earl and Countess.

Brooke

[Patricia Light]

Article from Hello! Magazine dated 16th June 2024 - only mentions her 2 children by her 1st marriage Emma & Jack & William & Nestor by the Viscount Hinchingbrooke (now Earl of Sandwich) so yes, Brooke, where do DPB get Aneuin & Kit?

https://www.hellomagazine.com/homes/675143/viscount-viscountess-hinchingbrooke-mapperton-house-tour/

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Patricia.

A very good question!  

Our "usual" maddening problem with DBP is that they exclude people who should be there.  

I don't think we've had a case where they've included people we've never heard of, but then again, I guess there's a first for everything!  :)

Regards.

Brooke

[S. S.]

Has anyone like thought of just sending an email or letter and asking this question to the Earl or Countess of Sandwich? I did the same as an email with Annandale and Hartfell and got the answer to one of my genealogical queries. 

S.S.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

S.S., I think the question should really be addressed to Debrett's.  They are the ones who have listed these two young men, seemingly out of nowhere.

Brooke

[Paul Theroff]

That is excellent advice. One assumes that the Countess, who has made herself a public figure, would be willing to answer such questions. It makes a lot more sense than just continuing to criticize Debrett's.

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D. P. Theroff

[bx...@yahoo.com]

In this case,  it's not a matter of criticizing Debrett's.  It's just a matter of wanting to know who these children are in Debrett's own database.  Surely, they should be able to answer that question.

The Countess has been forthcoming, that she has 4 children, two from her previous marriage and two from her current marriage.  Why would we think she would even know who these other 2 children are?

Brooke

[dpth...@gmail.com]

If you don't think the Countess will know whether those two children are hers, I give up. SS gave you the easy way to answer your question.

As for Debrett's, they own their own website, and they can add or delete anything they want to, and they have no obligation to answer any questions from the public.

Meanwhile, the Peerage no longer has even a constitutional position, now that the hereditary element to the House of Lords is going, so if members of the Peerage want information about themselves and their minor children to be known to, and discussed minutely by, us in the general public, it's up to them to make it known somehow.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I'm going to try this another way.

If the children were, in fact, the children of the Countess, knowing how honest and open she has been, wouldn't she say she  has six children?  For what reason would she deny these other two children if they were hers? 

My point is this:  for whatever reason,  or perhaps in error, Debrett's has included these two children as being the children of the Earl and Countess.  Only Debrett's would know why they included them.

Your statement is true-- Debrett's doesn't need to answer questions from the public.   However,  from their own website, they promote themselves as  "the most comprehensive... and useful source for British peerage and baronetage information in the world."  

If that's the case,  having accurate information should be of prime importance.  The reason anyone uses Debrett's is because we trust that information is correct.  To maintain their reputation and their client base, it is incumbent upon them to maintain and have  accurate records.

Otherwise, why use Debrett's?

Brooke

[G. Willis]

It seems by no means at all unreasonable to query the producers of a source with regard to why said source includes specific information unknown to any other source. They would, after all, be best placed to know, it being their publication. Riding high on their reputation as they clearly are, it would serve Debrett's as a niche heritage concern reliant on the esteem of the public to have a decent system of interaction with the public- i.e. their customers, whether current or potential- 'obligation' and the like notwithstanding.

[colinp]

The editor of Debrett's is looking into this

[Patricia Light]

Hon Aeurin & Hon Kit have been removed from the Title. Well done Colin, for pointing it out to them

[bx...@yahoo.com]

colin, I second Patricia's appreciation.

I do admit, however, to being  curious how they got there in the first place!

Brooke

[S. S.]

Could just be a case of mistaken writing down names where they don't belong and no one caught it. 

S.S.