Debrett's 2019 the last print edition

[colinp]

Today's Daily Telegraph has a story about Debrett's Peerage and Baronetage going online and the 2019 edition being the last print edition - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/28/death-blue-bloods-red-book-debretts-moves-online/

It merited an editorial as well

and a piece by Charles Moore in The Spectator Notes:-

‘Sir Walter Elliot, of Kellynch Hall, in Somersetshire, was a man who, for his own amusement, never took up any book but the Baronetage; there he found occupation for an idle hour, and consolation in a distressed one.’ So begins one of the finest novels in the English language. Over the two centuries since Persuasion was published, latter-day Sir Walters have been able to do exactly the same thing. Now, however, I receive a letter (‘Dear Entrant’) from an address in Upper Ground, SE1 which tells me that ‘the 2019 Debrett’s Peerage & Baronetage will be the final printed edition’. Instead, Debrett’s is ‘working on improvements to our database to make this information available digitally’. For much longer than anyone remember, the red volumes of Debrett’s or Burke have been visible in the libraries or drawing-rooms of country houses, and it has often been the case, as it was with Sir Walter, that ‘the page at which the favourite volume always opened’ disclosed the entry for the family in residence. Merely by mentioning this, Jane Austen could deftly lead readers into a particular world and introduce us (unfavourably) to the character of Sir Walter. In modern times, the interest in genealogy has grown and grown. In this week’s pre-publicity about the forthcoming episode of Who Do You Think You Are? Kate Winslet displays her Sir Walter-like self-admiration, prompted by the revelation that she is descended from a ‘slave’ labourer in 19th-century Sweden. The internet — plus DNA — makes it far easier to know where you come from. No doubt the online Debrett’s will be very useful. But the disappearance of the actual book is a definite cultural moment, and a definite loss.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Another end of an era.

Please post any information (once it is known)  about Debrett's Peerage online and how that will work.

Thanks.

Brooke

[G. Willis]

Although I've never really had cause to use Debrett's publications (not for any particular reason), I do hope what Debrett's offer will be superior to that now available on the Burke's Peerage website, by which I remain underwhelmed (at least when weighed against what 'Burke's Peerage' represented and still ought to represent); there was a lot of noise made when the latest editor was appointed a few years ago regarding new publications etc, but nothing much appears to have resulted.

[G. Willis]

Just for reference, two quite illuminating articles on Burke's Peerage in 2017 (I didn't come across anything more recent):

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/welcome-to-our-stately-pile-vzrg0ln72

https://www.tatler.com/article/sam-malin-and-irene-malin-burkes-peerage-interview

[colinp]

It appears from their latest blog posting that Debrett's digital offering - a database - is now available - see  Debrett's Digital Transformation • Debretts

Cost is £9.99 per month though you can combine it with access to their "Etiquette Library" for an extra pound or so.  Has anyone tried it?  I suppose it's worth £10 just to have a look at it

I had hoped that at least they would produce a digital version or e-book of the traditional DPB every three years or so but clearly they have gone down a different route.

[William Stotesbury-Leeson]

Interesting to read that Debrett's will probably not publish a print edition again;  with the last edition of Burke's Peerage being 2003, I guess that the last peerage reference to still be regularly published would be Whittaker's Almanack (which has always devoted some space to the peerage, but mainly confined to main titles and their courtesy titles).

[bx...@yahoo.com]

colinp, thanks for posting.

I can understand not doing another print version, but I also thought they would produce a digital version or e-book.  In some respects, having a volume (even if it is only digital or an e-book) has its purpose, because it is a snapshot of the peerage/baronetage at that particular moment in history.

I wonder if perhaps they will at least make one available and give people the option of buying the volume or having a subscription to the website.

I have the 2019 edition, and was looking forward to a 2022 digital version.  Now, I'm in a quandary!

Brooke

[Nick Kingsley]

I have just signed up. It would appear from what they say about their future plans that they have ambitions to extend the scope of the database beyond the traditional Debrett format: "over time, subscribers will see extinct titles, lost family lines and missing data reinstated". It will be interesting to see if this transpires!

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[marquess]

They are behind the curve to use an American term, there are plenty of websites that detail descendants of extinct peerages. Even Wikipedia is a good though not necessarily a completely accurate source for such things. The Complete Peerage has been available in PDF form for a long time. I doubt there will a greater or more rich source for extinct peerages.

[colinp]

I have now signed up - just a few brief comments as I haven't had a lot of time to explore the site.  The first screen is a list of titles, inc some extinct ones, in alphabetical order - peerages and baronetcies in same list.  Clicking on a title takes you to a page for that title which is set out in a very similar way to the former print editions and containing much the same information.  I have noticed however that no current addresses are provided nor exact DOB's of the title holder and his/her heir.  There now appears to be a complete list of previous title holders for the baronets - in the print edition this was generally only provided for peers.  There is a search facility although it doesn't highlight the search term when you click into the relevant page.  They have actually made quite a good job of it.

[William Stotesbury-Leeson]

Well, it will be interesting to see how Debrett's redefines itself for the digital age;  certainly, with their long publishing history, the possibilities are almost limitless.  Myself, though, I would much rather pay a large, one-time fee for something that I could hold in my hands rather than pay a small but perpetual fee for right of access.

[Henry W]

Thanks Colin for noticing this - I may well sign up soon.

Like others I had hoped a digital edition every few years or even a decennial print edition might continue to give a snapshot of the peerage at a point in time.

Not surprised that DoB and addresses are no longer being listed.  I assume that GDPR/privacy considerations are involved, though I am hoping they will continue to give some residence details (town/country level information); some level of detail is helpful in tracing via electoral roll records.  I have some concern that our own group might at some point have difficulty with the level of detail we publish - some may have noticed that I post more minimally about younger dynasts of titles.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

William, I'm in agreement with you.  I would rather pay a one time fee for a volume than continue to pay each month in perpetuity.   Besides, having the volume gives a researcher a look at the peerage/baronetage at a moment in time. 

I can understand restricting information on some full addresses, as they aren't totally necessary.  However, birthdates (or at least birthyears)  are a must for the titleholder and heir.

It would be nice if Debrett's would allow a free trial period, or at least a more descriptive indication on that is available now and what is being planned.

Brooke

[colinp]

Both Sir TImothy Colman's and Sir Antony Acland's deaths have been noted on the digital Debrett's database so it is being kept up to date.  Lady Mary Colman's descendants still appear - they would have been removed in the previous print editions