Abeyant or dormant peerages

[pyvery]

I have always been fascinated with sleeping peerages and wonder if the following list is correct

Bergavenny......Lord Camden   1/2

                       Lord hastings   1/2

Audley.............Three co-heiresses

Botetourt..........Mrs Frederica Thomas 1/4

                       Mrs Alexandra Peyronel 1/4

                       Lord Herbert 1/2

Botreaux..........Lord Loudoun

                       Sheena Williams

                       Flora Purdie

                       Ian de Fresnes

                       Norman Maclaren

Butler..............Lord Lucas of Crudwell 1/6

                       Sarah Loch 1/6

                       John Salmond 1/6

                       Lord Gage 1/6

                       Lord Lothian 1/3

Cobham ..........Gervase Thornley

[marquess]

It is to some extent but off the top of my head the barony of North and the Scottish Lordship of Falconer are missing, the dormant earldom of Breadalbane (to which there is an heir in Hungary, the earldom of Arlngton which should have been called out with the barony of that name (but for an absurd reason it has not and I do know the reason), the earldom of Ormonde is dormant. I would think a more practical approach would be to only count those baronies that have been in abeyance for less than 100 years. So North for example has been in such a state since 48 (off the top of my head) but Bergavenny would have been more than 100 years and from my previous reading of the Complete Peerage it was decided that the barony should go through the male line and exclude females.  So whether there is still a barony in abeyance is a matter for debate, more than 100 years means that it can no now never be called out.

[Nick Kingsley]

I have wondered why the Earldom of Arlington was not called out of abeyance at the same time as the barony, and could see no reason for this, so it is good to know that there is an explanation.  It sounds as if it was the choice of the title-holder, but perhaps you cannot say more?

 

Nick

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[marquess]

No my understanding is that there was no precedence for an English earldom falling into such a condition and then being called out, rather silly really as the two peerages were created with the same remainder so if the barony can be called out based upon that remainder then so too should the earldom. Cromartie is a UK earldom which was created with a convoluted remainder as an approximation of a Scottish earldom, yet it was called out of abeyance.  

On Sunday, 11 November 2012 16:18:04 UTC+7, pyvery wrote:

[Nick Kingsley]

I agree; that makes no sense at all!

 

Nick

 

From: peerag...@googlegroups.com [mailto:peerag...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marquess
Sent: 11 November 2012 13:45
To: peerag...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Abeyant or dormant peerages

 

No my understanding is that there was no precedence for an English earldom falling into such a condition and then being called out, rather silly really as the two peerages were created with the same remainder so if the barony can be called out based upon that remainder then so too should the earldom. Cromartie is a UK earldom which was created with a convoluted remainder as an approximation of a Scottish earldom, yet it was called out of abeyance.  

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[pyvery]

I should have included    ...Grey de ruthyn on this list and it has almost the same co-heirs as Botreaux

   How does a barony come out of abeyance ?

   If we take the Barony of Botetourt as an example ...If Baron Herbert and  Alexandra Payronel forgo their claims in favour of Frederica Thomas does that mean that she can apply for the abeyance to be terminated ?

[marquess]

If the co-heirs agree in whose favour the abeyance should be terminated then a petition is made. It is even possible that were there are two baronies they can be separated if the co-heirs agree that one should be terminated in favour of X and the other Y, see the Viscountcy of St Davids for such an instance. Of course it there are two co heirs with a half share and one dies the barony is automatically terminated in favour of the surviving heir, as was recently the case with barony by write that used to be affiliated with the earldom of Yarborough.

On Sunday, 11 November 2012 16:18:04 UTC+7, pyvery wrote: