MANNERS, Lt Cdr John Errol DSC (1914-2020)

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colinp

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Mar 11, 2020, 1:50:59 PM3/11/20
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The obit states he was descended from the 2nd Duke of RUTLAND.  He is not in Debrett's or Burke's - or at least not in the 1999 edition.  He may be a descendant of General Lord Robert Manners, son of the 2nd Duke by his 2nd m to Hon Lucy Sherard.  Lord Robert is stated to have m 1756 Mary Digges (d 1829 aged 92) and had two sons and two daus.  He may however be illegitimately descended from Lord William Manners, 2nd son of the 2nd Duke by his 1st m

There are a couple of discussions of Lt Cdr Manners' descent on nobiliana.de



EXTRACTS
Lieutenant Commander John Manners, who has died aged 105, was the last destroyer commander of the Second World War, who sank a U-boat in the closing weeks of the war; he was also believed to be the longest-lived first-class cricketer and the oldest member of the MCC.

Manners was Mentioned in Despatches and awarded the DSC for gallantry, determination and skill: postwar analysis showed that he had indeed sunk U-1274. On the same page of the London Gazette his brother, Errol Manners, was also awarded the DSC, for outstanding, courage, tenacity and devotion to duty when his ship Bedouin was sunk defending a convoy to Malta.

Manners’s father, called from retirement to be a convoy commodore, led 52 convoys, and was knighted and Mentioned in Despatches, while another son and a daughter were officers in the Navy.


John Errol Manners, descended from the 2nd Duke of Rutland, was born in Exeter on September 5 1914: his father, Admiral Sir Errol Manners, was a naval officer and a distinguished theologian [his mother an Australian]. Aged 13, young Manners followed his father into the Navy.


Aged 103 he took part in a television show, 100 Year Old Driving School, though soon after he restricted himself to driving his mobility scooter to the local shop.


His wife [Mary nee Downes] predeceased him in 1995. They had two daughters, one of whom was christened in the ship’s bell of the Eglinton, and a son.


John Manners, born September 25 1914, died March 7 2020













S R Eglesfield

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Mar 12, 2020, 2:13:50 PM3/12/20
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It would appear that Lt Cdr Manners was descended from Lord William Manners, the second son of the second Duke of Rutland. Lord William never married, so it is unsurprising that his descendants do not appear in Debrett's or Burke's Peerages. While one cannot unquestioningly accept everything in wikipedia, the article on Lord William at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_William_Manners states that the youngest of his ten children by his mistress, Corbetta Smyth, was Robert Manners (1743-18 April 1810), who married Elizabeth White (1749-1817), and had numerous descendants including Rear Admiral Sir Errol Manners (1883-1953).


I have not been able to verify all that follows, but, piecing together information from the internet, it appears that the above-mentioned Robert Manners and his wife Elizabeth had eleven children (see https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/manners/303/), the ninth of whom was Lt Col Henry Herbert Manners (1786-1843), who married Sabina Poole Brissett (c.1791-1874) on 24 April 1813. They had six sons (and four daughters), including Col Herbert Russell Manners (1819-1907), who married Angela Brown and had a son, Herbert Alexander Erskine Manners (1855-1938), who married Emma Phoebe Evatt (1856-1929), and had issue, including Rear Admiral Sir Errol Manners.

dpth...@gmail.com

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Mar 12, 2020, 3:06:41 PM3/12/20
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There are several mentions in the authoritative sources supporting that Lord William Manners had numerous illegitimate children. Unfortunately the only one, of several, sons whom I have seen named in these sources is John, who married the Countes of Dyasrt. I have also found a mention of one daughter in the Walpole Correspondence.


Collins Peerage 1812, Vol. I, p. 483, says that Lord William "had several natural children"

Complete Baronetage, Vol. V, sub Manners of Hanby, says that  Lord William had "several illegit. children ... of whom seven, by Corbetta Smyth, were bap. from 1733/4 to 1743 at St. James', Westm."

Scots Peerage calls John Manners, husband of 7th Countess of Dysart, "eldest of the illegitimate sons of of Lord William Manners ... by Corbetta, daughter of William Smyth, of Shrewsbury, apothecary."

A footnote in Scots Peerage refers to the "will of Lord William Manners, dated 8 July 171, proved P.C.C., 27 May 1772 (186, Taverner)."  Likely there are more details in the will.

In the Yale edition of the Horace Walpole Correspondence, Vol. 30, page 327, is a mention of the "All-beauteous Manners"; a footnote quotes a note by HW himself describing her as " ____ natural daughter to Lord William Manners. She since ran away with, and is married to a Capt. Hall: 1748, and died in childbed the next year."
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