HAY, Hon MUNGO LOUIS MERLIN b 1 May 2024

[Richard R]

From the Telegraph of 10 May 2024: HAY On 1st May 2024, to Clementine (née Travis) and Harry, Lord and Lady Hay, a son, The Honourable Mungo Louis Merlin, brother to Persephone.

Harry Thomas William HAY b 8 Aug 1984 Lord Hay s&ha of 24th Earl of ERROLL b 1948 and Isabelle Jacqueline Laline 1955-2020 d of Thomas Sidney Astell HOHLER MC 1919-89 of Wolverton Park, Basingstoke and scion of that gentry family of Long Crendon, and [Comtesse] Julie Marie Isabelle Jeanne 1918-96 d of the Marquis DE JOUFFROY D'ABBANS of Rue Alphonse de Neuville, Paris. He m 2017 Clementine Camilla Curtis b 1989 reg Q3 London d of Prof Simon Piers Leigh TRAVIS b 1958 by his 1983 m reg Q4 London to Pamela J EVANS b 1960 reg Q3 London. Their dau Hon Persephone Idina Isabelle HAY was b 10 July 2020.

[Patricia Light]

Good news but DPB & Who's Who Online states Lord & Lady Hay have 2 daughters? Wonder why only one is mentioned?

[Richard R]

Is it possible Who's Who have made a typo?

[Patricia Light]

Looks like it, Richard, & DPB copied them, after all the family would know.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I've noticed that several earldoms in the peerage of Scotland have a courtesy title "Master of __________" for the grandson of an Earl.

Why is there none for the Erroll earldom, i.e., "Master of Hay?"

Thanks.

Brooke

[S. S.]

I thought it was because they didn't have a family history of using Master of XYZ for the grandson, though that grandchild could be styled like that. There are plenty of Scottish earldoms whose grandchild does not have that form of courtesy title, e.g. Rothes, Haddington etc. 

S.S.

[992234177]

It will apply, Lord Hay is the Master of Errol and the Hon Mungo should be the Master of Hay.   The Scottish system is legally recognised in Scottish law whereas the English one is by courtesy.

[992234177]

https://groups.google.com/g/peerage-news/c/7vNruCqCk3U

[bx...@yahoo.com]

DPB Online has now updated this page.

Lord Hay is now shown with 2 children, including the heir, the Hon. Mungo Louis Merlin (b. 2024). The Hon Persephone (b. 2020) is the other child, but the previously listed "daughter" has now disappeared, so it looks like that original listing was an error.

Interestingly, although the Earl and Lord Hay use the family name "HAY,"   some of those in closer relation do not:

The Earl's second son, the Hon. Richard, uses the last name ASTELL.

The Earl's brother, the Hon. Peregrine, the 25th feudal Baron of Easter Moncreiffe, uses the last name MONCREIFFE OF THAT ILK.

The Earl's half brother, the Hon. Jocelyn, uses the last name CARNEGIE.

Brooke

[marquess]

Were it not for the nature of succession to the earldom, it would be highly unlikely that any of the family would bear the name Hay.  

[https:/www.maltagenealogy.com/LeighRayment/]

Exactly, it is the present Earl mother who was the Countess of Hay and the father as Baronet Moncreiffe of that Ilk.

on. Richard Merlin Iain Astell (b. Basingstoke, 14 December 1990); took the surname "Astell" by Royal Licence in 2015

[pyvery]

Could Hon Mungo Hay'sister been known as mistress of Hay prior to his birth.?

I have looked at the number of females who could/can call themselves Mistress and have the following

Sutherland

Saltoun

Herries  known as Mistress of Terreglas

Kinloss

Balfour of Burleigh known as Mistress of Burleigh

Napier

Dumfries from Bute

there may be more

brothers who could call themselves Master include

Ruthven  from carlisle

Loudoun

Rothes

Selkirk

Northesk

[Robert Jewell]

You seem to be typing too fast: Countess of Erroll