Lord John FitzGerald 1952-2015

[Michael Rhodes]

_. Lord John FitzGerald, scion of the Dukes of Leinster (Duke, Peerage of Ireland, cr 1766), the racehorse trainer, younger brother and heir presumptive of the 9th Duke of Leinster, died 3 August, 2015. He was 63.

Lord John was born 3 March, 1952, the second son of the 8th Duke of Leinster (Premier Duke, Marquess and Earl in Ireland) (1914-2004), by his 2nd wife the former Anne Smith, scion of that landed family; married 1982, Barbara, eldest daughter of Andreas Zindel, of St Moritz, Switzerland, by whom he had issue, a daughter, Hermione (born 1985), and a son, Edward (born 1988), who is now heir presumptive to the dukedom.

Service of Thanksgiving at St Agnes Church, Newmarket, Suffolk, Tuesday 11 Aug.

-=-

[Michael Rhodes]

Three years ago the Daily Mail reported that racing legend Lester Piggott had left his wife and was now living with Lord John's wife "Lady Barbara FitzGerald" - several decades Piggott's junior.

[Richard R]

So the line of succession to this title is:

1. Edward FitzGerald (b 1988) unm - hp

2. Peter Charles FitzGerald (b 1925)

3. Stephen Peter FitzGerald (b 1953, unm) only son of No 2

[ThomasFoolery]

Just those three? How about the other titles?

[G. Willis]

From the looks of this pedigree http://www.william1.co.uk/w25.html there aren't any other heirs at the moment; I think trouble was afoot by the point the 7th Duke had only one legitimate son, but that going all the way back to other male issue of the 4th Duke yields so very few heirs is a bit dismaying! Given that none of the other male issue of the 4th Duke seem to have proliferated, and that based on a glance through all the way back to the 1st Duke yields no further heirs whatever, it seems that all hopes are resting on the heir presumptive to set up a good stock of Fitzgeralds for the future (!). From what I recall, there exists very little by way of property or assets at this point anyway (since the time of the 7th Duke)... but by no means does that mean that the loss of the premier dukedom of the Peerage of Ireland would be anything other than a very considerable- and sad- one. The Kildare Fitzgeralds, like their Desmond cousins, seem to have the unfortunate habit of dying out, which is a pity considering the antiquity and, in some cases, uniqueness of the titles/ honours involved (the hereditary knighthoods, for example).

[marquess]

Some of the subsidiary titles date back to the 1200 and 1300's it is hard to believe that there are no heirs to these titles. 

[BREMENMURRAY]

This family once lived in Leinster House,Dublin now home of the Dial Eirean,the Irish parliament as well as a property in London now the Duke of Leinster hotel. 

[marquess]

Wasn't it the seventh duke who mismanaged the money so as to leave the dukedom in reduced circumstances? What also about the claim of the Canadian/Californian  who claims to be descended from the 5th duke,  I heard that DNA evidence backed up his claim? Doesn't he have leave to appeal the decision of 2006?

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 11:27:25 AM UTC+7, Michael Rhodes wrote:

[malcolm davies]

Some comments on the posts above:-

 1.Lack of heirs(Marquess)

    The 9th Earl of Kildare(Silken Thomas) rebelled against Henry VIII who had him executed along with his 5 uncles.The heir(later 10th Earl survived but only just and was taken as an infant abroad).When the 1st Duke of Leinster succeeded as Earl of Kildare in 1744 he was the only heir male to the title.

     The fate of the peerages rests on Edward Fitzgerald,Lord John's son.If he does not marry and have a son,all the peerages will become extinct.Since the family are the premier dukes,marquesses and earls of Ireland,this would be a loss to the peerage.The successors to the premierships would be respectively,the Duke of Abercorn,the Marquess of Waterford and the Earl of Shrewsbury as Earl of Waterford(assuming the Earldom of Ormonde remains dormant).

    The family of Fitzgerald as represented in the gentry would disappear,with the Earldom of Desmond and the three hereditary knightships the Knights of Glin & Kerry and the White Knight all being extinct(the Knight of Kerry is not yet extinct but the present knight has no children and is 75).

  2.Other claimants(Marquess)

     This claim has been tested before(when the 7th Duke died) and the claimant was unable to prove that his parents(of whom the father was Lord Desmond Fitgerald middle son of the 5th Duke) were married.DNA evidence can have no effect on that controversy.

  3.Family finances(Marquess).

      Most of the Irish lands(Carton excepted) were sold in the late 19th century and invested and what remains is held by trustees.The 7th Duke sold(while Lord Edward Fitzgerald) his life interest for thirty thousand pounds(which he subsequently wasted) to Sir Henry Mallaby Deeley who enjoyed the income while the 7th Duke was alive.When the 8th Duke succeeded he inherited what was left.The possession of the life interest by a third party however prevented any tax planning,so the estate would have been diminished in size by reason of that fact alone.Carton was sold to Lord Brocket by Sir Henry Mallaby Deeley,but he did so with the consent of the trustees and the proceeds would have remained in the estate,Sir Henry being entitled to the income only.

[Michael Rhodes]

Lord John FitzGerald's obituary in the Racing Post:-

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/former-trainer-lord-john-fitzgerald-dies-aged-63/1928670/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews

[marquess]

Well Malcolm I can't fault a succinct post like that, thank you, it would seem that you we really have good old Henry to blame for the depletion of possible male heirs.

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 11:27:25 AM UTC+7, Michael Rhodes wrote:

[BREMENMURRAY]

If the assertion that the seventh Duke was the natural son of the eleventh Earl of Wemys is valid then the remaining Fitzgerald's are even less 

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 5:27:25 AM UTC+1, Michael Rhodes wrote: