SAINT HELENS, Baroness (d.2018)

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Emma Rosemary St. Helens, née Lyle, died in the Chelsea and Westminster on 26 December, aged 66, mother of Henry and Lara and sister to Anna, Sas and Alexander. Funeral Service on Thursday, 10 January 2019, at St Peter & St Paul, Shiplake. 

Source: The Telegraph, 4 January 2019

Mrs Emma R Talbot-Smith married in 1983 Richard Francis Hughes-Young, 2nd Lord Saint Helens, and had Henry Thomas (1986) and Lara Elizabeth (1987).

[G. Willis]

Regarding her first marriage- there is a 1978 marriage record for Nicholas P. H. Talbot-Smith and Emma R. Lyle; I take this to be Nicholas Patrick Harvey Talbot-Smith (1950-), an insurance broker. There are two options for N. Talbot-Smith's birth; one in Dec 1950 at Kensington as 'Nicholas H. Talbot-Smith', mother 'Spencer-Cooper' (apparently the parents are Patrick Talbot-Smith and Rosemary Vivien Spencer-Cooper, who m. Mar. 1950 at Kensington [he as 'Patrick T. Smith']) or Dec 1950 at Oxford as 'Nicholas P. H. Smith', mother 'Hastings' (too many options for parents). I would tentatively lean toward the former simply as the 'Talbot' is corroborative (if not definitive, particularly given its perhaps somewhat nebulous status as suggested by the marriage record). If, as appears to be the case, Patrick Talbot-Smith is the father of Nicholas, the following is not irrelevant: the London Gazette has an April 1951 notice of his assumption of the surname of 'Talbot' as an addition to the original name of 'Smith' (n.b.- it appears to have already been his middle name based on his marriage record) which states him to be of 14, Hereford Square, S.W.7, a 'business executive' and 'Lieutenant-Colonel in His Majesty's Territorial Army'.

Country Life of May 11, 1978 gives Emma as daughter of Dr and Mrs Keith Lyle, of Cherrycroft House, Kingwood Common, Henley-on-Thames, Oxon. Dr Lyle was Thomas Keith Lyle (1904-1987), C.B.E., M.R.C.P., F.R.C.S., an ophthalmic surgeon who worked at King's College Hospital, Moorfields Eye Hospital, and elsewhere, and was President of the Ophthalmological Society of the United Kingdom, vice-president of the Section of Ophthalmology of the Royal Society of Medicine, int. al. He served with the R.A.F.V.R. in WWII, and reached the rank of Air Commodore, also serving as Consultant in Ophthalmology to the R.A.F., and was later civilian consultant to the Ministry of Aviation. His wife (m. 1949) was Jane Bouverie Maxwell, with whom he had a son and three daughters.

His father was Herbert Willoughby Lyle, an ophthalmic surgeon at King's College Hospital, formerly a physiologist, who later became Dean of the King's College Medical School. Debrett's gives H. Willoughby Lyle as of Fircliff, Portishead, Somerset. [n.b.- contrary to the obituary (from the Proceedings of the Sixth Meeting of the International Strabismological Association, 1990) that provided the details of Keith Lyle as above, Debrett's states he was b. 1903]

[G. Willis]

Given the distinctive name, I wondered about any connections to the peerage/ gentry through Jane Bouverie Maxwell, wife of Dr T. Keith Lyle; there is a birth in 1914 of a Jane B. Maxwell, mother Gibson (I could not, however, locate a marriage; given Ian Maxwell's military career, he and Miss Gibson might have married elsewhere); a Capt. Ian Bouverie Maxwell, of the South Wales Borderers, b. 1890, was k. 1914. He was noted in various sources to be son of Cmdr Everard Ellison Maxwell (1851-1892), R.N., and Ethel Mary Maxwell, of Ashley Gardens, Westminster, and educated at Radley and Hertford Coll., Oxon. He was also mentioned to be nephew of Lt-Gen Ronald Maxwell, K.C.B., indicating this individual to be someone presumably of note (if unfortunately unknown to me!) E. E. Maxwell, based on birth records, was son of Charles Francis Maxwell and Thomasine; the 1839 marriage of 'Capt. Charles F. Maxwell' and 'Thomasine Ionia Hankey' was recorded in the Norfolk Chronicle and Yorkshire Gazette. 

BLG 1838, under 'Hankey of Fetcham', shows Thomasine Ionia to be daughter of Sir Frederick Hankey, G.C.M.G., secretary to the Maltese government. BLG 1847's entry on the same family refers to Thomasine's marriage 'to Capt. Charles F. Maxwell, 82nd Foot, nephew and military secretary to Sir Henry Bouverie, Governor of Malta'. BLG 1871, under 'Bouverie of Delapre Abbey', shows Sir Henry to be son of Edward Bouverie (1738-1810), M.P. for New Sarum, by his wife Harriet, dau. of Sir Everard Fawkener; Edward Bouverie was second son of Jacob Bouverie, 1st Viscount Folkestone. Edward Bouverie's daughter Mary Charlotte married, in 1800, 'William Maxwell, esq., of Carriden'- this, given the preceding details, can reasonably be concluded to be the father of Charles F. Maxwell as above.

Returning to Jane- a 1950 Canadian Border Crossing record for a 'Jane Bouverie [actually transcribed as 'Bournerie', but I think this is inconsequential] Keith-Lyle', estimated birth year 1915, may suffice as corroboration of the birth year above. She travelled with a Thomas Selfe Keith-Lyle (Plarr's Lives of the Fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons corroborates this as the aforementioned Dr Lyle's full name, unmentioned in previous sources I encountered, as well as states date of birth to be 26 Dec. 1903 and that of death 9 May 1986). The hyphen presumably indicates the usage of 'Keith' as part of the surname (as suggested in the Country Life source), if unrepresented in other sources. The Munk's Roll biography states Jane Maxwell to be 'daughter of an Army officer', which I think confirms the above supposition(s).

[G. Willis]

Some details of the William Maxwell of Carriden who married Mary Charlotte Bouverie: https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1790-1820/member/maxwell-william-ii-1768-1833

'MAXWELL, William II (1768-1833), of Carriden, Linlithgow.

b. 3 Jan. 1768, 1st s. of William Maxwell of Carriden by Grizel, da. of John Stewart† of Castle Stewart, Wigtown. educ. by a pastor in Switzerland; Westminster 1782; Edinburgh 1786; Christ Church, Oxf. 1787-91; L. Inn 1787. m. 21 Mar. 1799, Mary Charlotte, da. of Hon. Edward Bouverie I* of Delapré Abbey, Northants., 3s. 2da. suc. fa. 1771.

... He had sold Carriden in 1814 and, his West Indian properties also failing, lived latterly in London, in reduced circumstances. He died at 3 Burwood Place'

The Maxwells don't appear in Burke's Family Index (although they may still have been of reasonable status, of course), but the John Stewart of Castle Stewart referred to above was, according to his biography here - https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1715-1754/member/stewart-john-1769 - the great-grandson of the 2nd Earl of Galloway. Interestingly, John Stewart was '1st s. of William Stewart of Castle Stewart by Isabel, da. of Sir William Maxwell, 1st Bt., of Monreith, Wigtown'; this William Maxwell may have been a relative of the Carriden Maxwells, but the details appear limited.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

Interesting that the History of Parliament, usually quite meticulous, says that William Maxwell, daughter of John Stewart, but sub John Stewart it says that John Stewart had only sons. Still, the daughter must be correct.

James, 2nd Earl of Galloway, cr Bt 1627 (ca 1610-Jun 1671); m.1st Catherine Houghton; m.2nd 1642 Nicola Grierson

|

William, of Castlestewart; m.Elizabeth Gordon

|

William, of Castlestewart; m.1st Isabel Maxwell; m.2nd Jean Heron; he had issue by both marriages, but the only details I have are as follows

|

[by 1st m.] John, of Castlestewart, d.shortly before 6 Jul 1769; m.by Sep 1733 Jean Craik

From Scots Peerage, Vol. 4, p. 162

4. William of Castle Stewart (formerly known as Kilcreuchie), which came to him by marriage with

Elizabeth Gordon, daughter and heiress of John

Gordon of Cardoness and his wife Elizabeth Stewart,

daughter and heiress of Colonel William Stewart, of

Castle Stewart (sec Anthony Stewart of Clary, p. 155).

He was M.P. for Wigtownshire in 1650, and, like his

brother, was a sympathiser with the Covenanters,

being fined 600 for the offence. On 1 November

1671 he had a grant of certain lands from the Bishop

of Galloway, being therein styled fourth lawful son

of James, late Earl of Galloway. Elizabeth Gordon

his spouse is also named. He was in favour with

Charles n., however, in 1677, in which year he had

a grant (1 July 1677)

of a burgh of barony, and commenced

building the burgh of Newton Stewart shortly

thereafter.5 On 25 October 1677 he had sasine of the

lands of Castle Stewart and of the burgh of barony

of Newton Stewart.6 He had one son,

(1) William.

I cannot at the moment locate my source for the younger William's marriages.

[G. Willis]

Actually, I think you've highlighted an important point, Mr Theroff- the internal link on the History of Parliament page for William Maxwell didn't work for John Stewart of Castle Stewart, bringing up a message 'this member's details have not been entered yet'; the link for John Stewart I included in my post was the result of a separate internet search, and I conclude based on what you've said plus the fact that the URL for John Stewart of Castle Stewart seems to place him within the 1790-1820 category (like his son in law) rather than the 1715-1754 one, the latter being where the John Stewart page I linked to is. I imagine the John Stewart, father in law of William Maxwell to be a descendant of the individual to whose page I erroneously linked, but until his biography is put up on the site I'm not sure we'll get all the details! Thank you for pointing this out, though- nothing worse than things being left uncorrected!

[dpth...@gmail.com]

I wondered whether there was another estate called "Castle Stewart", but the references are to Wigtown, and that leads back to this John, and I doubt that there were two Castle Stewarts in Wigtown.

If Maxwell's mother was daughter of this John Stewart, then the dates match up perfectly. If John had a daughter she would presumaby have been born ca 1733-1745, making her the perfect age to have a son born in 1768.

[dpth...@gmail.com]

My guess is that the link does not work only because they inadvertently in error made the link say "1790-1820". As far as I can tell, they have already posted biographies of all the members in the 1790-1820 period. (I really enjoy the History of Parliament website; I use it as light reading when i need something to read for 30 minutes or so.. I just read several articles in a row, and then bookmark it for my next visit.)

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 11:00:08 AM UTC-6, G. Willis wrote:

[G. Willis]

I think you might well have cracked it, given the dates would fit in the scenario you outlined. It's definitely a very informative site, but I've only ever used it a few times- the next time I see 'M.P.' after someone's name (as long as their dates are suitable), I'll hopefully remember to check it!

[dpth...@gmail.com]

It's a great source of interesting information.

For example, click on "Constituencies" and you'll find articles about each borough or county and the politics of each one in each period, who the patrons were, etc.

Click on "Surveys" for essays about various aspects of Parliament for each period. Particularly interesting are the Survey sections called "Members", where you get a breakdown of the social and educational backgrounds of members in each period.

Here is one example: 

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1820-1832/survey/vi-members

[G. Willis]

Ah, now that is extremely interesting! Just the kind of background information that would take many hours to collate oneself. Thank you for pointing this out; I think, as you mentioned, the site is ideal for reading through at leisure just out of general interest, as well as for specific purposes.

[pyvery]

[pyvery]

She can also be remembered as the mother of Lara Inskip,a close friend of the Sussexs but there was never any mention of either her or her husband,who now lives in the Isle of Man,at lara's wedding in Jamaica.

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 12:57:36 PM UTC, dpth...@gmail.com wrote: