details on fatal accident in Virginia?

[Greg Gibson]

Anyone know anything about this?

greg

From: Lauren <lauren...@gmail.com>

Subject: [MABRA-USCF] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

Date: June 17, 2013 11:09:18 AM EDT

To: mabra...@googlegroups.com

Reply-To: lauren...@gmail.com

A friend died after being hit by a car on Saturday. He lives in Warrenton. Anyone know any details?  Not sure if he was alone or with a group - he often rode with Potomac Pedalers. We are incredibly sad to have learned about this yesterday, and it seems that details are sparse.

[James Ventre]

http://www.fauquier.com/news/article/fauquier_bicyclist_fatally_struck_on_crest_hill_road_saturday

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[Cohen, Denise]

“The cause of the crash is yet to be determined”

 

Driving while 18.  Pretty much sums it up.

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[dc.w...@cox.net]

How tragic. Is the accident location on the Blue Ridger ride route? If so, it could have been anyone of us who frequently ride in that area.

---- James Ventre <messag...@ventrefamily.com> wrote:

=============

http://www.fauquier.com/news/article/fauquier_bicyclist_fatally_struck_on_crest_hill_road_saturday




On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Greg Gibson <gr...@greggibson.com> wrote:

> Anyone know anything about this?
>
> greg
>

> *From: *Lauren <lauren...@gmail.com>
> *Subject: **[MABRA-USCF] details on fatal accident in Virginia?*
> *Date: *June 17, 2013 11:09:18 AM EDT
> *To: *mabra...@googlegroups.com
> *Reply-To: *lauren...@gmail.com

[Mariette Vanderzon]

This is on Crest Hill Rd. Rt. 647, which goes south of Marshall toward Flint Hill and Little Washington. 

www.sunmanagement.net

[brinl...@comcast.net]

yes. I lead the Warrenton Wonderlust on Sat for the club and we leave the Orlean store and our next turn is the left onto Crest Hill. I don't know where Hume Road is exactly on Crest Hill Road. We were on Crest Hill about 11:15 or a bit later and I don't recall anything except a fire truck with sirens going past Orlean just as I pulled out of the driveway. Woody Lipinski was leading another ride for the club out of Marshall and we ran into all of them at the Orlean store too. Yes - anyone of us. So sad.

 

---

[Mariette Vanderzon]

The Hume Rd is Route 635. It is the right turn about 4 1/2 miles outside of Marshall.  Not really a blind spot at all unless it was an intersection accident. 

www.sunmanagement.net

[Jeff Anderson]

How can they NOT cite the driver......the two foot law was violated.....

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: "Cohen, Denise" <DCo...@chadbourne.com>
To: James Ventre <messag...@ventrefamily.com>; Greg Gibson <gr...@greggibson.com>
Cc: Pedalers (googped) <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

[brinl...@comcast.net]

His wife passed away last year so it will be up to his daughters to press for charges.

---

From: "Jeff Anderson" <jeffreya...@gmail.com>
To: "Denise Cohen" <DCo...@chadbourne.com>, "James Ventre" <messag...@ventrefamily.com>, "Pedalers (googped)" <peda...@googlegroups.com>, "Greg Gibson" <gr...@greggibson.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:48:39 PM

[Jeff Anderson]

My point is why have a two ft law if they don't cite them on scene....drop or add charges later.

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: "brinl...@comcast.net" <brinl...@comcast.net>
To: Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com>
Cc: Denise Cohen <DCo...@chadbourne.com>; James Ventre <messag...@ventrefamily.com>; Pedalers (googped) <peda...@googlegroups.com>; Greg Gibson <gr...@greggibson.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:56 PM

[Mariette Vanderzon]

Perhaps someone from The Wash Post could call the sheriff's office to inquire. 

Or perhaps an attorney from a bicycles advocacy group. 

[Greg Gibson]

Wasn't there a specific bill in the Va General Assembly making it a crime to rear end cyclists…along with one about opening car doors? I also seem to recall both getting shot down?

greg

[Deborah Reynolds]

Dooring did fail.  I do not recall one about rear ending.  There is a law that requires being more than 2-feet away....  They tried to amend this to 3-feet and that failed too.
 

---

Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

From: greg....@me.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 11:31:50 -0400
CC: peda...@googlegroups.com
To: mariette....@gmail.com

[brinl...@comcast.net]

well the sheriff has twice passed me with barely an inch to spare so good luck making the 2 foot rule anything but a law in writing only. These 3 feet, 2 feet rules do nothing because the driver can always get off somehow.

 

 

---

[Jonathan Krall]

There is a proposed law about following too closely. It is pitched every session and keeps getting shot down.

However, I get these sense that all these laws get closer to passing each time as attitudes change.

[Jeff Anderson]

No charges filed again.   Seriously?   This needs to change asap.

http://mclean.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/cyclist-in-hospital-with-life-threatening-injuries-after-crash

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>
To: Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>
Cc: "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:31 AM

[Mariette Vanderzon]

Yes, I was given a free shave a few weeks ago by one of Fauquier's finest. 

[Allen Muchnick]

Over the past four years, at least 8 bills were introduced to make it illegal in Virginia to rear-end a bicyclist, either in combination with a 3-foot minimum passing distance requirement or just by itself.  While every bill was killed, often in a seven-member subcommittee meeting, this legislation will eventually be enacted.   The subcommittee chairman, who was the main opponent, is not seeking re-election this year.

When you see your Virginia state delegate running for re-election this fall, ask him or her to support passing the following-bicyclists-too-closely, 3-foot passing, and dooring bills.  If your state legislators happen to be Republicans, ask them to patron such bills.

Allen

Allen Muchnick
Arlington VA
allen22204@gmail.com
703-271-0895 land
703-625-2453 mobile

[Dan Lehman]

> ... still no charges filed ...
> ... make it illegal in Virginia to rear-end a bicyclist ...

I find it beyond annoying to imply that devoid some specific
bill about "too close" or how hit
that one can run over ANY other road user w/impunity.
The man was hit & killed and we're not talking about
some misdemeanor too-close infraction,
nor should it matter that it was a road user in motion
--a presumption, perhaps--
vs. a mail vehicle stopped to deliver mail.
.
And, to my awareness, it is frequently the case that
investigation precedes citation w/traffic accidents.
.
.
--dl*
====

[kare...@comcast.net]

Did you read some of the comments from the readers????

---

From: "Jeff Anderson" <jeffreya...@gmail.com>

To: "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>, "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:00:21 PM

Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

[brinl...@comcast.net]

The state police are handling the investigation and won't give out almost any information. The family does not want to be contacted. The killed cyclist was on a club ride that my club ride intersected with at the Orlean rest stop about 11:15 on Saturday morning. Albert Caviness was riding about 30 minutes ahead of the group we met up with. Apparently, another rider came upon him but was not there when it happened. 

 

---

[Mariette Vanderzon]

Just because they won't give out any information doesn't mean 500 people calling to ask why no citation was given won't make them mildly concerned about a public awareness issue. 

Area 12 Office (Counties of Fauquier and Rappahannock)
Warrenton: 455 East Shirley Avenue
Mailing Address: 455 East Shirley Avenue, Warrenton, Virginia 20186
Telephone: 540-347-6425

--

www.sunmanagement.net

[Jeff Anderson]

My reply below.  I f'ning tired of these scofflaw drivers.  8^)  Every member of PPTC needs to comment on this....overwhelm these a$$holes w/ pressure.  

And when it comes time to get more laws passed....PPTC and other clubs need to inundate the VA General Assembly.  

Fred/Observer - You are the very folks that need to get off the roads - regardless of whether you use a car/bike/segway/your feet.  There is not a single argument you can make that will give the rights of a car over the rights of bike.  Both have the same rights and simply put - cars need to stop acting like they own the road.  Realize that the person on the bike is a dad/mother/son/daughter simply trying to get home.   In a showdow, a car will always win and thus cars need to take MORE responsibility.  And educate the kids better.  Put the freakin cellphone down.  Slow down.  Stop rolling stop signs and right on red.  Etc etc.   The more bikes on the road the safer it will be for all.  Bikes aren't going away....so get used to it.

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: "kare...@comcast.net" <kare...@comcast.net>
To: Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:27 PM

Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

[Adam Goldberg]

The Fairfax county police spokesperson said “the cyclist was traveling northbound on Lewinsville Road”.

 

Um, excuse me, but I sure hope “Police are still investigating,” because I don’t see how you could characterize either direction on Lewinsville Rd as being northbound.  Maybe they should investigate getting a compass or a map.

 

North is up:

 

 

Adam Goldberg

AGP, LLC

+1-202-507-9900

[Doug Lesar]

The Loudoun cops do it too ... absolutely on purpose.

 

Doug L

[twshort]

2.5 years past while riding my bike I was rear ended by a motorist at about 40 mph. It was a straight rural road with no traffic and absolutely nothing to obscure the motorist's vision. I suffered a shoulder broken in 3 places, a broken rib, a broken leg requiring surgery and a long and difficult recovery. The police did not charge the driver with anything. Yet we are charged with the slightest revenue generating violation. Maybe the police can explain their reasoning to us. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jeff Anderson]

I'm hoping you guys get on the mclean patch article and join me in dealing with these two idiots.  

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: twshort <tws...@comcast.net>
To: Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com>
Cc: Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>; Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>; "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:11 PM

[brinl...@comcast.net]

Totally. On Dry Mill Road, he saw me and moved in closer with no traffic coming at him. I have a mirror and watched him do it.

---

From: "Doug Lesar" <dle...@comcast.net>
To: "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>, brinl...@comcast.net
Cc: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>, peda...@googlegroups.com, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:11:02 PM

[Roman, Tom]

What did he do when you gave him the finger?

 

Tom Roman

[brinl...@comcast.net]

Alas I did not. It might be a good policy to have the club put together a committee of safety advocates and meet with each of the law enforcement departments in VA, MD, and DC every year. Were they to decline, then we could go to the local newspapers with a real story of cyclers trying to work with those who enforce laws but were rebuffed. It also would be good club policy to advise those of us who lead rides what to do if there is a serious accident or a fatality. Obviously law enforcement and medical personel take over but what should we do as a ride leader representing the club - anything? Seriously.

---

From: "Tom Roman" <Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>
To: "brinl...@comcast.net" <brinl...@comcast.net>, "Doug Lesar" <dle...@comcast.net>
Cc: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>, peda...@googlegroups.com, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:54:30 PM

[Adam Goldberg]

I really like the idea of explaining the cycling-related law to the police (in early spring?), **if** it would be received well.  That is, I’m concerned that trying to explain the law to cops might not be taken well by the cops (who are, after all, experts ;)

 

Anyone know if they’d take a seminar on cycling-related law well?

 

 

Adam Goldberg

AGP, LLC

+1-202-507-9900

 

[Cohen, Denise]

Brin this is an excellent idea.  It would be an enormous help if you would take the lead on this.  Each member of the board already has about 13 projects of his or her own (including the century) that he/she is working on.  You would get tremendous support from us, but we’d need you to handle the details, logistics and so forth.

 

Denise

 

 

 

Denise Cohen | Legal Secretary
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
1200 New Hampshire Ave N.W., Washington, DC 20036
tel 202-974-5709 | fax 202-974-6909
dco...@chadbourne.com | http://www.chadbourne.com
vCard: http://www.chadbourne.com/vcard/dcohen.vcf

From: peda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of brinl...@comcast.net

Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:03 PM
To: Tom Roman

[LEN WILKINSON]

Brin,

    You have excellent ideas, and I encourage you to bring the problem to the attention of the executive committee.  Please include the potential solutions.

    And while at it, how about the rash of cyclist being mugged or run over in the past month? 

    I seem to recall a citation on this forum of a article written by a sympathetic journalist.  Perhpas the club could take the initiative to raise the issues with law enforcement and the media to get more visibility into "same roads, same rights."  By so doing, we might hopefully bike a bit more safely.

 

Sorry for my rushed response, but that is the time available at the moment,

Len

From: "brinl...@comcast.net" <brinl...@comcast.net>
To: Tom Roman <Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>
Cc: Deborah Reynolds <deb...@hotmail.com>; peda...@googlegroups.com; Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>; Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>; Doug Lesar <dle...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

Alas I did not. It might be a good policy to have the club put together a committee of safety advocates and meet with each of the law enforcement departments in VA, MD, and DC every year. Were they to decline, then we could go to the local newspapers with a real story of cyclers trying to work with those who enforce laws but were rebuffed. It also would be good club policy to advise those of us who lead rides what to do if there is a serious accident or a fatality. Obviously law enforcement and medical personel take over but what should we do as a ride leader representing the club - anything? Seriously.

From: "Tom Roman" <Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>
To: "brinl...@comcast.net" <brinl...@comcast.net>, "Doug Lesar" <dle...@comcast.net>
Cc: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>, peda...@googlegroups.com, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:54:30 PM
Subject: RE: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

What did he do when you gave him the finger?

 

Tom Roman

 

From: peda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of brinl...@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:39 PM
To: Doug Lesar
Cc: Deborah Reynolds; peda...@googlegroups.com; Greg Gibson; Mariette Vanderzon
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

 

Totally. On Dry Mill Road, he saw me and moved in closer with no traffic coming at him. I have a mirror and watched him do it.

From: "Doug Lesar" <dle...@comcast.net>
To: "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>, brinl...@comcast.net
Cc: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>, peda...@googlegroups.com, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

The Loudoun cops do it too ... absolutely on purpose.

 

Doug L

----- Original Message -----

From: Mariette Vanderzon

To: brinl...@comcast.net

Cc: Deborah Reynolds ; peda...@googlegroups.com ; Greg Gibson

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:04 PM

Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

 

Yes, I was given a free shave a few weeks ago by one of Fauquier's finest. 

 

On Jun 18, 2013, at 11:49 AM, brinl...@comcast.net wrote:

well the sheriff has twice passed me with barely an inch to spare so good luck making the 2 foot rule anything but a law in writing only. These 3 feet, 2 feet rules do nothing because the driver can always get off somehow.

 

 

From: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>
To: "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:43:36 AM
Subject: RE: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

Dooring did fail.  I do not recall one about rear ending.  There is a law that requires being more than 2-feet away....  They tried to amend this to 3-feet and that failed too.
 

Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?
From: greg....@me.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 11:31:50 -0400
CC: peda...@googlegroups.com
To: mariette....@gmail.com

Wasn't there a specific bill in the Va General Assembly making it a crime to rear end cyclists…along with one about opening car doors? I also seem to recall both getting shot down?

 

greg

On Jun 17, 2013, at 5:38 PM, Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Perhaps someone from The Wash Post could call the sheriff's office to inquire. 

Or perhaps an attorney from a bicycles advocacy group. 

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com> wrote:

My point is why have a two ft law if they don't cite them on scene....drop or add charges later.

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

[brinl...@comcast.net]

ok. I'll start work on it when I get back from CA next week. I would appreciate someone or someones from DC and MD joining me once I get an outline of what to do together. All suggestions welcome - email me OFF this group at brinl...@comcast.net.

 

---

[Deborah Reynolds]

Reading the ride leader guidlines is a good place to start...  It has some good pointers and also asks the leaders to report any accidents.
 

---

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:02:54 +0000
From: brinl...@comcast.net
To: Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu
CC: deb...@hotmail.com; peda...@googlegroups.com; greg....@me.com; mariette....@gmail.com; dle...@comcast.net

[Jeff Anderson]

I would suggest getting FABB, WABA, Bike Arlington in the loop.  This is an issue that spans the region.   Riders from the area ride their bikes across the area.   

We also can leverage our Delegates - particularly Favola who sponsored the W&OD stop sign bill at the request of LC Sheriffs.

For example as the SRTS advocate in Fairfax, I've begun to develop excellent relationships w/ the FCPD bike Patrol out of reston/mclean.......and their District Captains.    Several MABRA riders are police officers etc etc.

Better to act with a unified front in this case

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

---

From: "Cohen, Denise" <DCo...@chadbourne.com>
To: "brinl...@comcast.net" <brinl...@comcast.net>; Tom Roman <Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>
Cc: Deborah Reynolds <deb...@hotmail.com>; "peda...@googlegroups.com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>; Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>; Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>; Doug Lesar <dle...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:07 PM

[brinl...@comcast.net]

Thanks..signing off now..got to work the rest of the day!

---

From: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>

To: "Brin Luther" <brinl...@comcast.net>, "Tom Roman" <tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>, dle...@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:17:59 PM

[brinl...@comcast.net]

: ) Please send no more suggestions to the whole google list so everyone doesn't get annoyed. Please reply to me. I'm cramming to get work done before heading to CA now so I'll look into spearheading this and reading all the great suggestions that come to me next week. Thanks much.

---

From: "Jeff Anderson" <jeffreya...@gmail.com>

To: "Denise Cohen" <DCo...@chadbourne.com>, brinl...@comcast.net, "Tom Roman" <Tom....@montgomerycollege.edu>, "Mariette Vanderzon" <mariette....@gmail.com>, peda...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "Deborah Reynolds" <deb...@hotmail.com>, "Greg Gibson" <greg....@me.com>, "Doug Lesar" <dle...@comcast.net>, "Wright Bruce" <bruce....@comcast.net>, blac...@gmail.com, sh...@waba.org, "Chris Eatough" <Chris....@bikearlington.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:30:29 PM

[Cohen, Denise]

Brin and I are going to talk next week.  I foresee scheduling a strategy session with some of the below mentioned entities, and all of you.

 

Denise

[Mariette Vanderzon]

Perhaps they would email it to Fauquier, Loudoun and the State Police as well? 

Today in the post office I heard, "Well, I heard the cyclist may have swerved off the road and back into the path of the truck." 
I left in fear of an acute aneurysm.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Bruce Wright <bruce....@comcast.net> wrote:

FYI, FABB is meeting with Chairman Bulova and Fairfax County police on Friday to discuss cyclist harassment and how police react to bike/motorist crashes and harassment reports. Shane Farthing of WABA is joining us. A major goal is for police to agree to disseminate information to all Fairfax police about basic cyclist's rights. I can report back after the meeting.

Bruce

Bruce Wright
Chairman, Fairfax Advocates for Better Bicycling (FABB)
www.fabb-bikes.org
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fairfax-Advocates-for-Better-Bicycling/237045302214
http://twitter.com/#!/BikeFairfax
703-328-9619

On Jun 19, 2013, at 1:34 PM, "Cohen, Denise" <DCo...@chadbourne.com> wrote:

Brin and I are going to talk next week.  I foresee scheduling a strategy session with some of the below mentioned entities, and all of you.

 

Denise

 

 

From: Jeff Anderson [mailto:jeffreya.anderson@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:30 PM
To: Cohen, Denise; brinl...@comcast.net; Tom Roman; Mariette Vanderzon; peda...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Deborah Reynolds; Greg Gibson; Doug Lesar; Wright Bruce; blac...@gmail.com; sh...@waba.org; Chris Eatough
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

 

I would suggest getting FABB, WABA, Bike Arlington in the loop.  This is an issue that spans the region.   Riders from the area ride their bikes across the area.   

 

We also can leverage our Delegates - particularly Favola who sponsored the W&OD stop sign bill at the request of LC Sheriffs.

 

For example as the SRTS advocate in Fairfax, I've begun to develop excellent relationships w/ the FCPD bike Patrol out of reston/mclean.......and their District Captains.    Several MABRA riders are police officers etc etc.

 

Better to act with a unified front in this case

 

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

 

--

www.sunmanagement.net

[Road Racer]

See below on how a bike mounted video camera led to the arrest of a
motorist who hit a cyclist and didn't stop to assist the struck
cyclist. I think a video camera is a must on a group ride given the
increasing number of incidents involving cars and cyclist. At least
there will be some evidence (provided the camera survives) after the
paramedics finish picking bits and pieces of us out of tire treads and
our body parts off the road.

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/04/30/bike-mounted-video-camera-leads-to-arrest-of-hit-and-run-suspect/

[Greg Gibson]

Forwarding third hand information from another list.

Apparently the 18 year-old driver that struck the cyclist did stop at the scene, called 911 and surrendered her cell phone to police. Allegedly she was NOT texting or otherwise using the phone at the time of the accident. There may be other extenuating circumstances which is why no charges have been filed yet.

greg

[Bruce Johnson]

I nearly went for a ride on that road last weekend. As someone before me said, driving while 18 just about sums it up. I'd like to see an example made, but I'm guessing that won't happen.

[Peter Klosky]

Mariette,

 

I think you are precisely correct that calls and letters work.  I know that a number of us called the Maryland State Police when Curtis Leymeister was struck from behind and killed in 2009.  I recall the police not only responded directly and wrote a letter to us, but also investigated the accident, took the driver to court and obtained a guilty verdict against the youthful driver.

 

The man I spoke with from the police really did care, and was, himself, touched by the experience.  He told of having to give notice, remaining at the scene for four hours or more collecting evidence.

 

thanks,

 

Peter

From: Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>
To: brinl...@comcast.net
Cc: Dan Lehman <dan_l...@hotmail.com>; peda...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

Just because they won't give out any information doesn't mean 500 people calling to ask why no citation was given won't make them mildly concerned about a public awareness issue. 

Area 12 Office (Counties of Fauquier and Rappahannock)
Warrenton: 455 East Shirley Avenue
Mailing Address: 455 East Shirley Avenue, Warrenton, Virginia 20186
Telephone: 540-347-6425

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:32 PM, <brinl...@comcast.net> wrote:

The state police are handling the investigation and won't give out almost any information. The family does not want to be contacted. The killed cyclist was on a club ride that my club ride intersected with at the Orlean rest stop about 11:15 on Saturday morning. Albert Caviness was riding about 30 minutes ahead of the group we met up with. Apparently, another rider came upon him but was not there when it happened. 

 

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[Peter Klosky]

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs that so many traffic fines are simply revenue generators instead of safety oriented.  In DC, they have a speed camera at the end of the Whitehurst Freeway on a four lane, divided, limited access highway that gives out $100 tickets for 36 MPH.  While there are often letters to the editor in the Post on the topic, the DC government will continue on this tack.

 

Just recently here in Fairfax City, I found that the penalty for assault and battery is the same, one year in jail, as for the crime of playing your car radio louder than your neighbor prefers or, even more notorious, the high crime of constructing a table and chair on a Sunday afternoon.

 

The lawmakers craft laws on the basis of the first rule of politics:  Better that I should govern than you.

From: twshort <tws...@comcast.net>
To: Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com>
Cc: Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>; Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>; "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

2.5 years past while riding my bike I was rear ended by a motorist at about 40 mph. It was a straight rural road with no traffic and absolutely nothing to obscure the motorist's vision. I suffered a shoulder broken in 3 places, a broken rib, a broken leg requiring surgery and a long and difficult recovery. The police did not charge the driver with anything. Yet we are charged with the slightest revenue generating violation. Maybe the police can explain their reasoning to us. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com> wrote:

No charges filed again.   Seriously?   This needs to change asap.

http://mclean.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/cyclist-in-hospital-with-life-threatening-injuries-after-crash

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

From: Greg Gibson <greg....@me.com>
To: Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>
Cc: "Pedalers pedalers@googlegroups_com" <peda...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [pedalers] details on fatal accident in Virginia?

Wasn't there a specific bill in the Va General Assembly making it a crime to rear end cyclists…along with one about opening car doors? I also seem to recall both getting shot down?

greg

On Jun 17, 2013, at 5:38 PM, Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps someone from The Wash Post could call the sheriff's office to inquire. 

Or perhaps an attorney from a bicycles advocacy group. 

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Jeff Anderson <jeffreya...@gmail.com> wrote:

My point is why have a two ft law if they don't cite them on scene....drop or add charges later.

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

[Jonathan Krall]

FWIW, there was a study a little while back showing that DC,

which has high speed-camera ticket prices, has many fewer

repeat offenders than MD, where the speed-camera price is

capped at $40.

 

In other words, you can have a safety-oriented speed cameras or

low-price speed cameras, but not both.

[Mariette Vanderzon]

I got a $250 camera ticket for supposedly going 100mph (on the dot!) on MacArthur at 9:30 on a weekday morning.

 

Dwarfs the water to wine thing.

a) my old Subaru getting to 100 between lights and/or stop signs

b) no one died as the result of my driving 100mph at 9:30 on a weekday on MacArthur Blvd.

 

Shockingly I couldn't tame my sarcasm and may have lost my argument when I  wrote,

"I don't know how fast I was going, but apparently neither do you."  ;-(

mv

 

 

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Doug Lesar <dle...@comcast.net> wrote:

Speed cameras for safety?  Bullshit.  The blue code of silence extends to the political class that created these monstrosities.  Its all about the revenue.

[Alan Felsen]

I'm very late into this discussion as I haven't been paying attention to the pedalers list lately, however there are NEVER charges filed on the scene of a fatal or potentially fatal collision.  These scenes are investigated much more thoroughly than your average collision.  That can include steps like measuring the coefficient of friction of the roadway at the scene, pulling cell phone records, doing crush analysis on the vehicles, and reviewing autopsy results on the victim(s) just to name a few things.  Usually prosecutors have to be consulted before placing serious charges like vehicular homicide.  Some cases may go to a grand jury for indictment.  A full fatal collision reconstruction is as detailed as any other homicide investigation.  

If a citation were issued on the scene and the fine paid that could be the end of the case due to constitutional double jeopardy protections against being charged/tried twice for the same offense.  Once the driver has paid the fine for whatever offense was originally charged they can assert a double jeopardy defense against any further charges arising out of the same incident.  While one can argue whether that defense would prevail (please... don't argue that on this list), the prosecutors simply aren't going to risk it.  It is safer to charge everything once all the facts are known and once a decision has been made on whether to charge vehicular homicide rather than issue any charges right away.  

A quick Google search reveals this story from 1991 in Maryland: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-12/news/1991163010_1_glasser-double-jeopardy-driving-while-intoxicated.  For those who don't click on the link... this waste of oxygen killed TWO people... both while drunk, in 1983 and 1989.  In the first case he went to jail for 20 days.  In the second case he was sentenced to 5 years, but after the appeals court ruled on the double jeopardy issue - he paid $35 and was done.  In the second case he had a BAC of .24, was driving the wrong way on the Baltimore Beltway when he killed another driver.  The Maryland decision was based on a Supreme Court decision from 1990 on a New York case (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=495&invol=508) .

If you can find a recent case where a fatal accident occurred and charges were immediately filed that would be an exception.  That applies regardless of whether the victim is a cyclist, another motorist, or a pedestrian.

There are plenty of legitimate issues to put our energy into to improve safety for cyclists.  Getting fired up about the charges not being filed at the time of the accident is misdirected effort.  I am not trying to say we should accept the too-frequent end result of only minor charges being placed for negligently taking a life.  I'm saying we have to wait for the right  time and complain about the right thing.  

Alan

[Mariette Vanderzon]

Thank you, Alan.