WaveCel Helmets

[Denise C.]

I've received a couple of ads for WaveCel helmets.  Does anyone know anything about them?  Does a $300 helmet provide more protection than an $85 one?

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-helmets/bontrager-wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

[Denise G.C.]

Hi, I’m  curious to hear the current opinion on what the best safety options are.  Or do all helmets offer about the same protection? Seems if you hit your head, a concussion is inevitable.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2019, at 7:00 PM, X Three <x3b...@gmail.com> wrote:

Denise, All:

I got the same email advertisement.  It looks like a mesh variation on the MIPS design allowing the head to move in the helmet in an accident.  My expectation is over the next 10 years or so helmet design will improve as our understanding of head injury dynamics improves.  But if I were biting a new helmet today I would be looking for the best safety options.

But $300?  That’s up to a successful professional like you!

Bob Manka

On Mar 19, 2019, at 6:40 PM, 'Denise C.' via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've received a couple of ads for WaveCel helmets.  Does anyone know anything about them?  Does a $300 helmet provide more protection than an $85 one?

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-helmets/bontrager-wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

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[Michael Bell]

According to mechanic/equipment specialist I'm riding with at present, this product was just launched today. Supposed to be vastly superior to MIPS (the previous "next best thing") at preventing concussions. Worth a look? Probably. $300? TBD.

Mike

On Mar 19, 2019 6:40 PM, "'Denise C.' via Pedalers" <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've received a couple of ads for WaveCel helmets.  Does anyone know anything about them?  Does a $300 helmet provide more protection than an $85 one?

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-helmets/bontrager-wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

--

[Matt Mortazie]

For what it's worth there is a $150 option in both road and commuter style. Bontrager's XXX stuff has always been well... XXX priced! lol

---

Matt Mortazie
(703) 786-1965

[Bikenut]

Below is a Virginia Tech study of bike helmets. I don't know how recent the study is but it gives you some idea of the protection  level of different bike helmets. The methodology and impact test are also described.

https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html

[Denise C.]

Thank you everyone.  I’ve skimmed the methodology of the VA Tech study.  The level of protection does seem to differ.  It’s definitely worth a closer look.

Sent from my iPad

[Jared Nieters]

(Not sure if my emails post to the whole Pedaler's group, if someone wants to forward this...)

3rd party verification means a lot to me. The VA Tech study awarded every WaveCell helmet 5 stars.

Here's a quick bit of info on the tech:

How it works:

Unlike a standard foam helmet, which is designed to protect against direct impacts, WaveCel accounts for how most cycling accidents actually happen—ungracefully, with twists, turns, and angled impacts.

WaveCel absorbs energy in multiple ways. On impact, the layers of the WaveCel material move independently and flex until the cell walls crumple and then glide, actively absorbing direct and rotational energy and redirecting it away from your head.  

This three-step change in material structure—flex, crumple, glide—is remarkably effective at dispersing the energy from an impact. Nearly 99 out of 100 times, WaveCel prevents concussions from common cycling accidents.*

*Results based on AIS 2 Injury (BriC) at 6.2 m/s test at 45° comparing a standard EPS Helmet and the same helmet modified with WaveCel insert as described in detail in Comparison of Bicycle Helmet Technologies in Realistic Oblique Impacts. For more information visit trekbikes.com/WaveCel

I have one already if anyone wants to check it out.  I'll leave it at the Studio for a few days.

-Jared

[Denise G.C.]

Thanks, Jared, Dave. 

On a related note, I realize I need to get rid of my helmet mount.  In a crash it likely would cause my neck to rotate and snap in two.  

Sent from my iPhone

[Bikenut]

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up. Crashing is not allowed!

[Steve Palincsar]

Indeed, but alas, as the poet said, "The best laid schemes o' mice and men gang aft a-gley"...

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Gary]

MIPS Disputes WaveCel Helmet Technology

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mips-says-wavecel-performance-falls-far-below-bontrager-claims.html?utm_medium=40digest.7days3.20190321.rank&utm_source=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=campaign

[Bruce A. Johnson]

The thing I was told about the MIPS is that it helps prevent twisting
the rider's neck, which it sounds like this one also claims to do. The
hard skin on current helmets is also supposed to prevent that. Whether
the Wavecel is better, I don't know. I'm still saving my pennies for a MIPS.

Bruce A. Johnson
Herndon, Virginia
A classic is something that everyone wants to have read
and nobody wants to read.
-- Mark Twain, "The Disappearance of Literature"

On 19/03/2019 17.31, 'Denise G.C.' via Pedalers wrote:
> Hi, I’m  curious to hear the current opinion on what the best safety
> options are.  Or do all helmets offer about the same protection? Seems
> if you hit your head, a concussion is inevitable.  
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 19, 2019, at 7:00 PM, X Three <x3b...@gmail.com

> <mailto:x3b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Denise, All:
>>
>> I got the same email advertisement.  It looks like a mesh variation
>> on the MIPS design allowing the head to move in the helmet in an
>> accident.  My expectation is over the next 10 years or so helmet
>> design will improve as our understanding of head injury dynamics
>> improves.  But if I were biting a new helmet today I would be looking
>> for the best safety options.
>>
>> But $300?  That’s up to a successful professional like you!
>>
>> Bob Manka
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2019, at 6:40 PM, 'Denise C.' via Pedalers

>> <peda...@googlegroups.com <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've received a couple of ads for WaveCel helmets.  Does anyone know
>>> anything about them?  Does a $300 helmet provide more protection
>>> than an $85 one?
>>>
>>> https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-helmets/bontrager-wavecel-helmets/c/E399/
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[Denise C.]

I purchased a Wave Cell helmet over the weekend and wore it on Sunday. From my own very unscientific view point, the honey comb appears to offer more shock absorption than hard styrofoam. I hope never to test it out, ever! I can attest that the helmet is very comfortable.

Sent from my iPad

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[Christina Sklarew]

Did you think the ventilation worked well?  Someone (online) said it was noticeably heavy--did it feel that way to you?  Did you find it in an LBS, where you could try it on? Did you get the Specter model?  Do you know if it differs from the XXX in any meaningful way?

Chris Sklarew

[Denise C.]

Hi Christina,

Till the weather grows warmer, I won’t be able to comment on ventilation — I was wearing a buff.

The weight didn’t feel unreasonable or unusual.  I bought a Spector at Trek, and didn’t examine another model as I had already ruled out spending $300.  My apologies!  My review should have been more thorough!

Do you live near Trek or Spokes?  They seem to be carrying a few of each size.

Denise

Sent from my iPad

[Eli Allen]

Looks similar in ventalation to the smith helmets like:
https://www.smithoptics.com/us/Root/Men%27s/Helmets/Cycle/Forefront-2/p/E0072238O5155/sizeVariants

where airflow doesn't go directly to the head so even if it looks like
good airflow it still has limits

[Christina Sklarew]

Right--that's where my question came from. I have the Smith Overtake, and it's waaay hot in the summer--the opposite of what I was expecting when I bought it.  Also, the little channels fill up with water when it rains. 

[Denise C.]

Uh, oh!  Hmmmm ... !  I didn’t consider that! (Ooops!  Well, I have a 30-day money back guarantee.)

I’m riding this weekend.  I’ll write back with an update next week.

Sent from my iPad

[Bikenut]

My $0.02.

The helmet might be hot in the summer and fill up with water but if the added helmet padding prevents the wearer from cracking open their skull and splattering brain matter all over the road I'd say it's worth the discomfort and added cost.

I've been riding a bike most of my life and have seen the aftermath of many helmetless bike crashes. As you might guess, it's not pretty, not to mention the pain and suffering, huge medical costs, and long recovery period.

[Christina Sklarew]

Agreed!

[Marty Kanner]

I bout the $150 version of the WaveCel.  I have a perfectly good Giro MIPS, but felt it's worth the potential of extra protection.  I bought it thru REI using the 20% member discount

[Christina Sklarew]

Well, damn! That was exactly my plan--buy thru REI with the coupon + my dividend, but it's no longer on their website.  I know it *was*, when the coupon first came out, which was approximately when the helmet came out.

[Eli Allen]

This isn't a helmet vs no helmet thing. This is just questioning if this helmet is worth getting. If it has poor ventilation then it may not be so good in the hot weather most here do most of their riding.

I don't think anyone here is really just safety above all else. This is just a helmet, there is lots of other safety gear you could be wearing for an increase in safety. Is your cycling kit dark colors or high viz? Wear anything to protect your back like a hydration pack? Etc

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 12:24 PM Bikenut <dc.w...@cox.net> wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

It's easy to dismiss or under-rate Washington DC summer conditions as "might be hot in summer..." when it's early spring and the "feels like" temperature at 10 am is in the 30s.  Your perspective on the bearability of a "hot" helmet may change a bit when the full oppressive weight of swampy, steamy summer is bearing down on you.

:-)

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Jason Kuper]

Not to mention crash caused by sweat in your eyes from a hot helmet 😉😈

[Steve Palincsar]

Or passing out from heat exhaustion.  As I've seen once or twice on rides.

And by the way, you really want to crash on account of sweat in your eyes?  Put sun screen on your (bald) head.  Let the sweat roll down.  I had that happen once; one drop and I went totally blind.  And there I was, riding a tandem with my daughter on River Road, totally blind.  I had to steer and brake and bring the bike to a halt based on my memory of the last thing I saw before blindness set in.

On 3/26/19 4:36 PM, Jason Kuper wrote:

Not to mention crash caused by sweat in your eyes from a hot helmet 😉😈

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:33 PM Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

It's easy to dismiss or under-rate Washington DC summer conditions as "might be hot in summer..." when it's early spring and the "feels like" temperature at 10 am is in the 30s.  Your perspective on the bearability of a "hot" helmet may change a bit when the full oppressive weight of swampy, steamy summer is bearing down on you.

:-)

[Eli Allen]

That's why you have two eyes, one is a backup 😜

--

[Denise C.]

Let me end this discussion right now.  This is not a honeycomb.  There are a million air holes.  I hope this picture posts to the list.

Denise

Sent from my iPad

[Eric Sanne]

Accident and Analysis Prevention study covers stats and heat issue. About 53 grams heavier. Tested in Portlands Helmet Impact Testing Facility.

http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/WaveCel_Whitepaper-Evaluation_of_a_novel_bicycle_helmet_concept_in_oblique%20_impact_testing.pdf

[Matt Mortazie]

Awesome share!! Thank you very much. Think that just sold me... It was new helmet time anyway!

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 10:06 AM Eric Sanne <esa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Accident and Analysis Prevention study covers stats and heat issue. About 53 grams heavier. Tested in Portlands Helmet Impact Testing Facility.

http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/WaveCel_Whitepaper-Evaluation_of_a_novel_bicycle_helmet_concept_in_oblique%20_impact_testing.pdf

[Eli Allen]

It doesn't really cover the heat issue other than saying there are
holes so must have airflow. (This is not to take away from how it
seems much better at impacts)

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 10:06 AM Eric Sanne <esa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Accident and Analysis Prevention study covers stats and heat issue. About 53 grams heavier. Tested in Portlands Helmet Impact Testing Facility.
>
> http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/WaveCel_Whitepaper-Evaluation_of_a_novel_bicycle_helmet_concept_in_oblique%20_impact_testing.pdf
>

[Denise C.]

I wore mine for 4.5 hours yesterday.  I didn't notice weight at all, and the air flow seemed fine.

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[Bikenut]

A hot head or brain matter splattered all over the road? Your call.

[Eli Allen]

For example, smith had to change their design to take out the
honeycomb in sections to get better airflow:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/05/review-smith-forefront-2-offers-more-room-protection-better-ventilation/

Denise, it didn't even get to the 80s yesterday. I'm not saying this
is as bad as the commuter helmets I see with hardly any vents, just
that it might be hotter than other helmets Might feel different when
20 degrees warmer. I mean I felt fine at the start of indian head
century last year when it was in the 70s, by the time I was finishing
and in the upper 90s I was not

Bikenut, this isn't a pick between helmet of no helmet, its a small
improvement. Also notice that while a wave cell helmet did get the
best score they weren't all at the top:
https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html

Also for those who think the safety of a helmet is the most important,
do you wear only high viz clothing, always use light, and protective
gear? Why only worry about the helmet? You weren't that visible to
the car that hit you but at least your head was well protected vs not
needing to use the protection.

[Steve Palincsar]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I've looked at the linked PDF study twice, and I find exactly one occurrence of the word "heat", and that's a general reference to a different study.  The linked study doesn't evaluate heat at all, that I can see. 

Weight is mentioned: CONTROL, SLIP, and CELL helmets had an average weight of 208 ± 4 g, 233 ± 6 g, and 282 ± 4 g, respectively.  CONTROL helmet uses conventional EPS construction.   Evidently the CELL helmets are roughly 80 grams heavier.

On 3/31/19 10:06 AM, Eric Sanne wrote:

Accident and Analysis Prevention study covers stats and heat issue. About 53 grams heavier. Tested in Portlands Helmet Impact Testing Facility.

http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/WaveCel_Whitepaper-Evaluation_of_a_novel_bicycle_helmet_concept_in_oblique%20_impact_testing.pdf

[Dan Lehman]

> I wore mine for 4.5 hours yesterday.

> I didn't notice weight at all, and the air flow seemed fine.

---

But did you get helmet hair?

[Eric Sanne]

Eli has a point. I have a Catlike ( as Rudi says the cheese grater) and it’s hard to imagine a helmet being cooler than that. But I did buy a WaveCell today because the safety seems so fantastic. This summer will have to see when the heat goes up to 106° which helmet I wear. Safety v Ventilation. I know the Specter has a lot more ventilation holes than the XXX but I bought the XXX because it’s a close call and it is so comfortable.

[Christina Sklarew]

WaceCel Specter is now 20% off at REI, i.e., on back order for $119.

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 10:22 PM 'Denise C.' via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thank you everyone.  I’ve skimmed the methodology of the VA Tech study.  The level of protection does seem to differ.  It’s definitely worth a closer look.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 19, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Bikenut <dc.w...@cox.net> wrote:

Below is a Virginia Tech study of bike helmets. I don't know how recent the study is but it gives you some idea of the protection  level of different bike helmets. The methodology and impact test are also described.

https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html

On March 19, 2019 at 7:50 PM Matt Mortazie <mattmo...@gmail.com> wrote:

For what it's worth there is a $150 option in both road and commuter style. Bontrager's XXX stuff has always been well... XXX priced! lol

---

Matt Mortazie
(703) 786-1965

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:48 PM 'Michael Bell' via Pedalers < peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

According to mechanic/equipment specialist I'm riding with at present, this product was just launched today. Supposed to be vastly superior to MIPS (the previous "next best thing") at preventing concussions. Worth a look? Probably.  $300? TBD.

Mike

On Mar 19, 2019 6:40 PM, "'Denise C.' via Pedalers" < peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've received a couple of ads for WaveCel helmets.  Does anyone know anything about them?  Does a $300 helmet provide more protection than an $85 one?

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-helmets/bontrager-wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

 

 

--