Holding tank vents

[Last Resort]

I won't get to it till June or so, but working on the preparation now to replace my holding tank vent line. I've had a constant ODOR since I've gotten this boat 5 years ago. I've found some causes and it's better, but still each year "the Admiral" complains she can smell it :(    I've been reading Peggie Hall's  "Get Rid of Boat Odor" bible (book), and according to her recommendations of:  at least 5/8" vent hose, no longer than 3' and no rise in angle greater than 45°, my Pearson 31-2 breaks ALL the rules. The line is 1/2", about 8' long and rises 90° on it's way out. So looks like I have my work cut out for me on this one :)  

I already replaced the hose with a direct line to the tank by removing the Y and the 4' high loop). I'm now thinking of increasing the vent line to at least 5/8" ( Peggie suggests 1" for such a long run, but that's quite a hole to put in the hull), attached to a new thru hull vent, and would like to take Peggie's suggestion of adding a second vent line to promote air within the holding tank, but will have to ponder that one for a while.  

Anyway, I was just wondering if any other Pearson owners have had a the same problem with constant odor, and what they may have done? 

[David Sneade]

Holding tank (as well as hoses and vents) odor is an ongoing issue as our boats mature. On our P303 I have replaced the bladder, all flush hoses, the Y valve and the vent hose over the years. In doing so, the odor was reduced to about zero initially. Another thing we do is to make sure to purge the system with fresh water and to prep the system with either a little bleach or a marine head treatment. Over  time, though, some odor has begun to creep back in but it has been about 10 years since system replacement. This condition I attribute to the hoses becoming contaminated even the high priced ones. As to vent hose size, I replaced the old one with the same exact size to simplify the task.

P303 #118

Redondo Beach, CA

[Peter Ogilvie]

Don't you just love having a floating outhouse.

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[Last Resort]

On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 11:17:07 PM UTC-5, roverhi wrote:

Don't you just love having a floating outhouse.

 actually, NO :)  and that's why I'm intrigued by Peggie's theory that with enough air to a holding tank, you wouldn't even really need any additives! Of course we'd still use some for peace of mind, and smell, but it sure would be nice to get rid of the "odor" :)

 

[Guy Johnson]

What if you used a small air pump to force fresh air into the tank?

Guy

Sent from my iPad

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[RICHARD USEN]

Is it possible that the bleach is killing the good bugs, causing odor?

 

Dick Usen

T-33 #100

Hopscotch

Boston

[Guy Johnson]

While it's true bleach will kill bacteria, I think the odor problem as it relates to tank venting is one of anaerobic vs. aerobic bacteria and the waste gases they give off. Anaerobic bacteria thrive in the absence of Oxygen and give of foul smelling waste products, while aerobic bacteria need Oxygen and give off less smelly waste products. Thus the problem becomes one of getting enough air into the holding tank to move the balance in favor of aerobic bacteria. 

Guy

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From: use...@verizon.net
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [pearson ] Re: Holding tank vents
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 06:04:00 -0500

[RICHARD USEN]

But won’t a shortage of aerobic bugs add to the problem? You can only fool mother nature so long… Our boat has a tee in the head sink discharge and the sink counter is low enough that the sink will overflow on the port tack w/ a strong breeze. So, it’s desirable to keep the seacock closed w/ any breeze. Pumping the head w/ the sink drain seacock closed requires dumping fresh water into the sink unless someone wants going under the sink to open it. The byproduct is that we usually flush w/ fresh water.  To compensate, the galley sink has a salt water rinse for the dishes.  

 

Dick Usen

T-33 #100

Hopscotch

Boston

 

[Last Resort]

as I would have thought, the ideas seem to be more air, less smell. And that's what I want to accomplish. Adding the pump is another way I'm leaning towards as suggested. I have a 240W solar panel, so the extra amps won't be an issue. Would appreciate any experiences from anyone who's done this already. And I've been looking into the 1" vent hose, but finding an actual 1" thru hull vent seems to be a problem, at least for one that looks good. I found a Vitus one, but only in the UK. Again, any leads on this are welcome :)

[Dave Cole]

How hard would it be to rig up an aquarium air pump to pump air into the tank "stuff".

Put an aquarium bubbler stone on the end of the tube and toss it in and seal off the lid so the air exhaust blows out the tank vent.

It might be a good $20 experiment.   Just plug it into 120 VAC power so it only operates at the dock. 

Clorine bleach kills pretty much all bacteria, so if you want something to "grow" in the tank don't do that.

 

You might want to try a little Rid-X in your tank.  That is used to keep septic systems clean and supposidly has lots of "good" bacteria. 

 

http://www.rid-x.com/septic-tank-system-products.shtml

 

Note that they also have an RV version. 

 

Regardless of what bacteria is growing in your tank, the resultant odor is not thought to be pleasant by many people.  But different people have different tolerances.

 

Dave

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD USEN
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 9:45 AM

[Last Resort]

that's an idea, but since I anchor out 90+ days straight, using a 120v system isn't for me. Also, I know there are MANY ways and products to eliminate the odor once produced, but I'm trying to take Peggie's advice and stop it from forming in the first place. More air seems to be the number one way to accomplish this. I found a product from Groco called Sweet Tank, and may still consider it even at the high price.  But all I really wanted was to add a second vent line (preferably 1") and a fan/motor of some kind that will bring in air and then vent it.

[Lance Davis]

I certainly appreciate that cost is a very real consideration, but have you considered a composting toilet? 

Lance

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Last Resort <lastre...@gmail.com> wrote:

that's an idea, but since I anchor out 90+ days straight, using a 120v system isn't for me. Also, I know there are MANY ways and products to eliminate the odor once produced, but I'm trying to take Peggie's advice and stop it from forming in the first place. More air seems to be the number one way to accomplish this. I found a product from Groco called Sweet Tank, and may still consider it even at the high price.  But all I really wanted was to add a second vent line (preferably 1") and a fan/motor of some kind that will bring in air and then vent it.

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[Dave Cole]

I don't know about Peggy or her books, but if you are tied up to the dock for a week an aquarium pump might be a cheap way to find out if increased air actually works before you start putting more holes in your tank.   I'm not suggesting that you use an aquarium pump as a final solution.  Any fan or motor is going to be a constant drain on your power system and I'm not sure that is a good idea unless you have a big solar panel array on your boat. 

 

Dave

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Last Resort
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:18 AM
To: pearson-boats
Subject: [pearson ] Re: Holding tank vents

that's an idea, but since I anchor out 90+ days straight, using a 120v system isn't for me. Also, I know there are MANY ways and products to eliminate the odor once produced, but I'm trying to take Peggie's advice and stop it from forming in the first place. More air seems to be the number one way to accomplish this. I found a product from Groco called Sweet Tank, and may still consider it even at the high price.  But all I really wanted was to add a second vent line (preferably 1") and a fan/motor of some kind that will bring in air and then vent it.

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[Last Resort]

Thanks Lance, but that' not an option I'd want to consider for this boat :)

And thanks again Dave, but the cost for me to dock for a week would pay for the Groco system, which has rave reviews by those who do use it :) And as I said, I do have a large Solar array on my boat charging 3 Group Size 31 AGMs as well as the GS 24 AGM starting/back up battery, so lot's of power :)

[Guy Johnson]

Because the head intake and the sink drain share a thru hull? 

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From: use...@verizon.net
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [pearson ] Re: Holding tank vents

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 09:44:56 -0500

[RICHARD USEN]

Yup. I think Jeff Griglak has his rigged the same way.

[Jeff Griglack]

No, I just keep a cup near the head and pour fresh water into the bowl using the cup. I, long ago, discovered that most of the smells from my head actually came from the anaerobic bacteria growing in the raw water intake for the toilet. And, no, I'm not saying "my sh*t don't stink." I'm just saying that the stuff growing in the hose that goes from the raw water sea cock to the toilet smells so much worse. Pouring in fresh water eliminated most of my odor problems.

Maybe I'll rig things up as Dick described someday. But that's way down on my to do list.

Jeff

[Dave Cole]

http://www.groco.net/00-sanitation/stk.htm

 

That looks an awful lot like a DC powered aquarium air pump!   

 

Complete with the aerator stone!    Note that if the tank is deeper than 18" you need a different pump.

Just like an aquarium.    So apparently I had this idea a few years too late.   :-) 

 

Not too far off.... and it says "marine" also.  :-)

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Metal-Power-Bubbles-12-volt/dp/B000EYWNVQ

 

It draws more than 3 watts though.   But you can bet you would have plenty of air in the tank!  ;-)

It sounds like your solar system could handle it. 

 

Dave

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Last Resort
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:38 AM
To: pearson-boats
Subject: [pearson ] Re: Holding tank vents

Thanks Lance, but that' not an option I'd want to consider for this boat :)

And thanks again Dave, but the cost for me to dock for a week would pay for the Groco system, which has rave reviews by those who do use it :) And as I said, I do have a large Solar array on my boat charging 3 Group Size 31 AGMs as well as the GS 24 AGM starting/back up battery, so lot's of power :)

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[Last Resort]

Well Dave, GREAT discovery!!! which got me googling and look what I found...exactly what we've been discussing all day :)

 

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/aeration-pumps-for-holding-tanks-155110.html 

[steve_hayes_maine]

Peggy Hall has a book and a number of good ideas. What worked for me was:

1. I installed a charcoal filter in the air line from the tank to the outside. These are readily available and work great.

2. I dump a gallon of clear vinegar into the toilet when I leave the boat and pump it through the system. What remains in the lines is vinegar, not sea water which reduces much of the opportunity for stink to grow.

I understand that some folks have re-plumbed their toilet to use fresh water, not sea water, and that helps too. If you have ready access to water, it might be worth considering but if I'm out a week, I need all of what my storage can hold.

Steve Hayes

[Last Resort]

As I've mentioned, I've found her book invaluable too :)  But one thing she did state was that using the inline filters was a NO NO (and I JUST made a new DYI a month ago for my boat), and she strongly urged against them as they restrict air flow. Now in use with an aerator may be different, but that's anyone's guess here.

[Dave Cole]

Nice!  :-) 

 

Don't you love it when you find out that someone else has already solved the issue with a cost effective solution! 

 

Dave

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Last Resort

Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 4:08 PM

To: pearson-boats
Subject: [pearson ] Re: Holding tank vents

Well Dave, GREAT discovery!!! which got me googling and look what I found...exactly what we've been discussing all day :)

 

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/aeration-pumps-for-holding-tanks-155110.html 

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[Last Resort]

Well I finally found a 1" thru hull that will work nicely for what I want...it's meant to be a water drain, but now turned the right way it will draw air when under way or from wind and fill the tank nicely with oxygen :)   And I'm still seriously looking at using the12V  Marine Metal Power Bubbles as well. At $55 CDN on Amazon and after reading other successes using for the same thing, it's worth a try!  If it still smells this summer, then it must be embedded in the hull :)

Thanks for all the help and advice on this to everyone !!!!