rudder post keyway
George DuBose
thinking of buying a Buck Algonquin bronze tiller arm.
I measured the rudder shaft, but forgot to measure the size of the key
that keeps the quadrant from turning. Anybody have an idea? 1973 P36-1.
Next problem, there are two massive wooden rudder stops, but in front of
them are two more massive vertical wood pieces that are glassed to the
inside of the hull and the sides of the cockpit. To my eye, these two
pieces that hold the two sheaves by the quadrant are right in the way of
the arm of the autopilot reaching the to be installed tiller arm. The
vertical pieces are so massive, I am sure I could cut a hole to let the
arm of the autopilot reach the tiller arm.
Just wondering if anyone has a solution to this old boat problem.
George
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George DuBose
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Peter McGowan
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Dan Pfeiffer
George, your timing is good. I am working on a wind vane installation and dealing with some of the same questions.
The 10M is very similar to the 36 in this area. I am pretty confident your components are tye same sizes though I'd confirm first with direct measurement.
Rudder Keyway = 3/8"
Shaft Dia = 1.5"
I agree on NOT cutting hole/slot in steering cable support structure. Also, there is no reason the AP ram needs to be in any particular alignment relative to boat. The ram needs to be 90 deg from the tiller arm at its center position but the whole assembly can be rotated to any angle. The ram could be parallel to centerline..
My tiller arm for the windvane steering will be mounted aft so all the working bits are I'm the lazzarette locker. Don't know if that's workable on the 36.
Photo attached of a test fit of my tiller arm on rudder shaft. That's just a diameter test. It will be pointing aft and up right under the steering quadrant and use the same Keyway which is more than long enough.
Dan Pfeiffer
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Jeff Griglack
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Dan Pfeiffer
Saw that long ago. They connected the wind vane lines to the main steering quadrant. Even though that seems to have held up for them for thousands of miles I don't like it. And by having the rudder tiller arm face aft I am simplifying the line arrangement with no need to cross the lines to opposite sides, so less friction.
I think it would be possible to mount a hydraulic ram in the aft lazzarette though the tiller arm for that is probably shorter than 8" and that might not work around other structural elements there? But I think it would work at 90 degrees so the ram is parallel to center line and tucked up on the underside of the cockpit sole.
Dan Pfeiffer
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Jeff Griglack
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Dan Pfeiffer
Oh, right. That too...
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George DuBose
Gentlemen,
This blog is great for the depth of information that we have and share communally.
The Buck Algonquin tiller arms come in several different
varieties. Some would have to slide down the rudder post and some
are split with the tiller arm clamping the rudder post using two
screws for tightness. I am going for the split version
While I understand the concept of having the tiller arm extent
rear of the rudder post or 90° to the centerline, these tiller
arms all seem to have the cutout for the key so that the tiller
arm could only point forward of the rudder post along the
centerline. The keyway on Skylark's rudder post is definitely
forward.
The YouTube videos I have seen all seem to have the linear mechanical ram pointing athwartship.
I will ponder this. I could have a new keyway cut into the collar of the tiller arm. Hmmm.
This is a winter project. I will report my success or otherwise.
Million thanks you guys,
George
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Dave Cole
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Dan Pfeiffer
That was just a test fit for the diameter and I still needed to verify the size of the key stock so I had not yet cut the keyway. It is cut now. Still some machining to do on the arm.
The thing at the top is a foam disc bit I made that sits on top of the rudder post and has a line on top that I can see from the cockpit through the clear plastic top on the access cover for the e-tiller. So I can glance back at that to see where the rudder actually is when I have lost track. Very handy. Use it a lot.
Dan Pfeiffer
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George DuBose
Hi Dan,
I wasn't criticizing, just pointing out that my steering is Edson and the two "eye" bolts that fix into the quadrant have one nut in front of the quadrant hole and two nuts behind. That's the way it was when the boat came to me.
I changed all the bronze axles on the steering system's sheaves. The only new ones from Edson are now stainless steel. The 4" bronze sheaves have now been replaced with anodized aluminum...yuk.
Now if I could just find a way to pick up all the cotter pins and nylon washers that I dropped into the pedestal while rebuilding the wheel axle...
Thank you all for your comments about this project.
George/Skylark
As I described, that was a test fit for the diameter on the bore in the tiller arm. It will face aft for hookup to the windvane control lines but I need to first cut a slot in the plywood partition to the lazzarette.
Yes, I made the tiller arm.
As for lock nuts, the steering gear is as Pearson delivered it. I have never messed with the steering except re-rensioning the cable perhaps twice in 20 years?
Lock nuts Sound like a good idea and I will see about adding that. perhaps nylocks. I'm not surprised Pearson did not take the added time needed to add them.
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2024-07-30 2:21 pm, George DuBose wrote:
Hey Dan,
Looking at the photo you sent, I don't see the quadrant and it looks like your tiller arm is pointing forward.
Oh, now I see it. From the side.
No locking nut on the cable end?
I guess you made the tiller arm. Saved a few hundred bucks...
Thanks for your advice.
George/Skylark
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