Insurance survey requirement

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Dave Cole

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:26:56 PMSep 17
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I have had Geico/Boat US insurance for 10+ years on my 10M.
I only have liability insurance.

Geico sent me a note stating that I will need a full survey for them to renew the policy next year in September.

There is no benefit to me of having a survey.  I know the boat very well. 

Also, will Geico require a survey every X years now?

I'm considering shopping for insurance because if this.  Id be better off paying more for insurance and not getting a survey.  
I would expect a survey to cost $500 plus.

Are you guys facing this same situation?

Other insurance companies may or may not require a survey.  I understand that Progressive may not.

Thoughts?

My main concern is liability insurance.

Dave
10M #26


Andrew Boyle

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:40:30 PMSep 17
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I've had Progressive for the 4 years I've owned my P27 and they've been great. They didn't require a survey to insure it initially and have not asked for one since.

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john getz

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:42:34 PMSep 17
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Geico/BoatUS asked for a survey for renewal this year. It's the first time I've been asked for one since 1989. A lot of insurance companies are dropping policies. Geico/BoatUS told me a few years ago, when I was looking for an insurer for a wooden boat, that they would not insure my P36 again if the policy lapsed because the boat was too old.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 9:26 AM Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Alptraveler

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:47:13 PMSep 17
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Uh, oh....I also have boat us/geico but not just for 1 boat, x3-pearson,pontoon, Alcort sailboat...all 1980's era. I guess I too shall be expecting a survey request.


David Lidrbauch

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:49:53 PMSep 17
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Yes,  Progressive, Geico, and whichever BOAT US uses, told me nothing older than 50 years old.   
My P35 #106, 1969 is insured through Markel (Hagerty).  They required a formal survey which cost me approx $700 four years ago.  Now that ive thoroughly updated it and once i seal off and vent out the CNG compartment, ill get another survey and ask for a reduction in premium.  (Dream a little dream...)

-David Lidrbauch

Jim Keszenheimer

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Sep 17, 2024, 1:14:04 PMSep 17
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Same for my ‘75 10m with Progressive. Geico wouldn’t insure me at all due to boat age.
Although one never knows what the future will bring.
Jim

On Sep 17, 2024, at 12:40 PM, Andrew Boyle <andrewja...@gmail.com> wrote:



Bob Maxwell

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Sep 17, 2024, 1:17:14 PMSep 17
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I have a 1986 boat. Every 4 years or so, my insurance company requires me to do a self survey. It's a somewhat detailed questionnaire on the condition of relevant boat systems. I have to answer and sign. I also have to take half a dozen or so specific photos and send them to them. I think that's reasonable. A friend with an effectively identical boat and a different insurer had to do a full survey for this year. I think it's a growing requirement, but mostly by insurers who don't know boats. I'm fine doing what is being asked of me. A full survey tells me you need another provider.

Bob

Dave Cole

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Sep 17, 2024, 1:30:34 PMSep 17
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"A full survey tells me you need a different provider".

Thats what Im thinking.  I had a full survey 10 years ago and used that to get insurance.  

I have no problems taking pictures and answering questions.  But in their note they suggest that they may adjust my insurance cost based on the survey.

Geico insurance is pretty cheap but it doesnt look like a solution for the next 5+ years, so I might as well go on the hunt now.

Ive heard that State Farm will do boat insurance and I have two houses with their insurance so I will shop them as well.

Not sure I understand, but will Progressive not insure 50+ year old boats?

Thanks,

Dave
10M #26



David Lidrbauch

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Sep 17, 2024, 2:05:37 PMSep 17
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One more thing:
In addition to liability, i think the "oil pollution liability" coverage is a must have.  If someone clobbers your boat on a mooring or it founders in a storm, the penalties for fuel spill cleanup can bankrupt the owner...

-David Lidrbauch

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024, 12:26 Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ed Henschel

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Sep 17, 2024, 2:21:32 PMSep 17
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I had difficulty getting insurance at first when I purchased my 1974 10M last year, but Progressive came through.  I did have a survey performed during the purchase, but Progressive did not require one last year.  The policy auto-renewed  this May and I have not received any correspondence mentioning a survey or that my boat is now 50 years young.

I hope that remains the case with Progressive 🤞

regards,

/Ed

Daniel Hoffman

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Sep 17, 2024, 3:35:35 PMSep 17
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It's concerning because I have GEICO too. I insured the boat for a modest replacement cost and have liability insurance that ties to my umbrella policy. I don't want to go through all that trouble either.

Have you called and asked them about doing a self-survey?

Dan 
Fourth and Goal 
31-2



John Getz

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Sep 17, 2024, 3:42:56 PMSep 17
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I didn’t ask about doing a self survey. I have a friend who is a surveyor and did the job for me at a slightly reduced rate. It didn’t seem an unworthy idea since my last survey was around 1991.  
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2024, at 12:35 PM, Daniel Hoffman <rp51...@gmail.com> wrote:



John Getz

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Sep 17, 2024, 3:45:43 PMSep 17
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Geico underwriters will probably change my rate. I’m going to have to wait and see. They’ve been very reasonable up to now.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2024, at 12:35 PM, Daniel Hoffman <rp51...@gmail.com> wrote:



Last Resort

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Sep 17, 2024, 4:27:56 PMSep 17
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Before anyone doesn't renew their present provider, keep in mind almost ALL insurance companies now won't touch anything over 30 years unless you're already with them, so BEWARE!!!!   My Skipper's Plan in Canada is a boat only company, and they still insure my 1990, but I only get market value now at the same price I used to pay for replacement cost. And a survey is required EVERY 5 years now. 

Dave Cole

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Sep 17, 2024, 6:03:23 PMSep 17
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Every 5 years....so thats a change from prior times?

If I had an agreed hull value or something like that, Id understand a periodic survey.  But Im liability only.  Plus they dont state when a survey will be required in the future.  Only that a survey is required for my renewal in about 12 months.

I have almost a year to shop for a better insurance situation.  So no hurry for me.  

I wont be cancelling until Im sure I have a better situation.  

Dave
10M #26

Jeff Griglack

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Sep 17, 2024, 9:31:58 PMSep 17
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I also have Geico/Boat US.  I have not gotten a notice about a survey, yet.

A friend has/had Progressive for his 40-something foot catamaran.  He was hit by a guy on a jet ski and it put a hole about mid-way on one of his hulls.  The jet ski was uninsured.  Progressive paid for the repair, after much cajoling, but refused to pay to have the hull repainted, saying that they never pay for a full repaint.  The patch did not match, and is actually a really bad match.  He is still arguing with them about a year later, and is changing to another company.  So it seems that Progressive, like so many insurance companies, is great as long as you don't try to make a claim.

I talked to a couple of insurance agencies at last weekend's Newport Boat Show, and I need to talk with them in detail.  I may keep Geico, but I will need to either expand it or get some other coverage if I want to go to the Bahamas.  Right now, I have limitations of how far offshore and the range is between Maine and Florida.

The survey when I bought the boat was over $800.  If Geico requires one of those ever 5 years, that's another reason to find different representation.

Jeff
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| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
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| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
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Dave Cole

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Sep 17, 2024, 10:20:45 PMSep 17
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Fyi - Geico said the requirement for a survey before my 2025 renewal was stated in my 2024 renewal paperwork, which I basically ignored since I made sure to pay online, ahead of the renewal date.

Dave
10M #26

John Getz

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Sep 17, 2024, 11:13:16 PMSep 17
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Same with me, Dave.  I’d recently been notified Geico was going to cancel because I’d not gotten the survey that I’d been notified in my 2024 paperwork. Never saw it. I had to jump on it. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2024, at 7:20 PM, Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:



David Lidrbauch

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Sep 17, 2024, 11:35:37 PMSep 17
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All these stories are lining up with the new reality: more extreme weather and shrinking boating population is pushing insurance co's to limit their exposure.   
Not much different from property  on the barrier beaches and in flood plains with very short survivability horizons.  
Plan for it: past history is not predictive.  Coverage will become more unsure each year and the hoops we need to jump through will get more restrictive as well.

-David Lidrbauch

Jeff Griglack

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Sep 18, 2024, 10:38:13 AMSep 18
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I checked my Geico policy from last year (due for renewal in December).  It makes no mention of a periodic survey.  In fact, the only mention of a survey or surveyor is in the "Appraisal and Dispute" section where a marine surveyor can be used to settle any dispute in a repair cost.

Is the language different?  Did they use the word "survey," or did they use some other term?  I got the document online and did a search for this keyword.

Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

Guy Johnson

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Sep 18, 2024, 11:18:52 AMSep 18
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I did the same thing and didn't find language for a required survey. Also have BoatUS/Geico insurance. 

Guy
Puffin 10M #6 1973

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jeff Griglack <grig...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 10:37 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Insurance survey requirement
 

John Getz

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Sep 18, 2024, 11:29:17 AMSep 18
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In my case, it wasn’t a requirement for periodic survey, but a short paragraph in a notice of changes in the policy that stated that I would need a survey before this year’s renewal.
I missed it entirely.
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 18, 2024, at 8:18 AM, Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com> wrote:



Dave Cole

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Sep 18, 2024, 11:48:59 AMSep 18
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Im having an email exchange with Geico right now.
I responded to their "reminder to get a survey" email.

Im asking what will be the schedule for future surveys after I have the required survey completed this year.  They sidestepped my initial email question so I rephrased it and sent it back.

If they are going to be making this survey requirement frequent, I will have more motivation to get other insurance quotes.


Dave
10M #26

Dave Cole

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Sep 18, 2024, 11:59:29 AMSep 18
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Just got a reply:


We received your inquiry about the survey requirement. Due to our guidelines we will require a survey at least every 5 years. Please contact us at 877-581-2628 if you have any questions or concerns.

So AT LEAST every 5 years.  Not good.  Time to shop.
Its really not about the cost, as much as it is about the hassle.
This is basically insurance company harassment.

Dave
10M #26

Daniel Hoffman

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Sep 27, 2024, 12:04:22 PMSep 27
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My GEICO insurance renewal came yesterday and it requires a "Condition and Evaluation survey" before I can renew next year.

The people who work at the marina say that it's because there are so many borderline or derelict boats out there.



On Tue, Sep 17, 2024, 4:27 PM Last Resort <lastre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert Franklin

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Sep 27, 2024, 12:10:20 PMSep 27
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All insurance is predicated on the idea that those who are careful pay for those who are not. This is essential in any risk pooling concept. It is virtually foolproof over large numbers which suits the insurance company. For a conscientious boat owner ... not so much.





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email:  robertm...@gmail.com

john getz

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Sep 27, 2024, 12:47:32 PMSep 27
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I had an in-water survey a week ago Monday, ten bucks a foot, uploaded it to them Friday, and was notified Wednesday that I'd be renewed when it comes up in November. Don't yet know if the terms have changed. I'm 78 so I doubt I'll have her five years hence but, if that happens, it seems not too much to pay to keep her insured. On the other hand a good friend who has a 2004 J109 in the same marina is paying State Farm 3/4 my Geico rate.
My replacement value is 25K, his is 200K.
Oh, survey said I needed new flares, extinguishers, a fire blanket, and new charts.

John G

Daniel Hoffman

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Sep 27, 2024, 12:51:44 PMSep 27
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Thanks a lot! I'll check those things out beforehand. I don't have a fire blanket at all.

Dan
Fourth and Goal
31-2


Dave Cole

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Sep 27, 2024, 2:01:44 PMSep 27
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Who requires fire blankets?  

Dave
10M #26


Guy Johnson

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Sep 27, 2024, 2:20:55 PMSep 27
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Who requires fire blankets?  
The surveyor who surveyed John's boat. 

That said, I have a fire blanket on Puffin and in the kitchen at home. 
For a stove fire or similar I think they make a lot of sense. 

Guy
Puffin 10M #6

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Sent: Friday, September 27, 2024 2:01 PM

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Insurance survey requirement

Daniel Hoffman

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Sep 27, 2024, 2:27:36 PMSep 27
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This is new for me too.

It's a good idea, but sounds a bit much.

Dan
Fourth and Goal


Dave Cole

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Sep 27, 2024, 2:47:43 PMSep 27
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I didnt know that his surveyor was authorized to establish standards.  😄

This is why Im not thrilled with surveys.  
The last time I had a survey, the surveyor said a bulkhead was beginning to delaminate.  The insurance company said it needed to be replaced before they could insure the boat.
I asked the surveyor if he thought it was a structural problem with the boat.  He said no.
I forwarded his response to the insurance company, they insured the boat without any repairs. 
Years later I replaced the entire bulkhead, just because it was eventually going to be a problem and thats what I do.   Pearson sometimes used poor quality plywood.  

Dave
10M #26

On Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 2:20 PM Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Getz

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Sep 27, 2024, 4:19:19 PMSep 27
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It was a suggestion, not a requirement. And since I have one in my very old summer cottage, it seemed not unwise. 16 bucks at Home Depot. And I’ve since talked to a couple other Boat owners who said, oh yeah, I’ve got one of those.

Sent from my iPhone

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Dave Cole

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Sep 27, 2024, 4:37:34 PMSep 27
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Got it.. You said you "needed" it.  I thought that meant it was required.

Its like fire extinguishers, how many is too many.  A fire blanket might be a good idea, or it might be something else to get in the way.  

Dave
10M #26


john getz

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Sep 27, 2024, 7:59:22 PMSep 27