Pearson 30 Windows

[Jeff Griglack]

I mentioned, a few months back, that I was having a problem with a leak on the starboard side of my boat.  I did not find the leak, itself, but found that the leak was occurring between the cabin top and the liner, and the water was running down the inside of the liner and hitting the things on the shelf, the cushions, and the galley.  I have torn apart the galley and have been making new cushions, but I don't want to put new stuff into place until I have the leak fixed.  I thought I would start with the most likely culprit, the window.

I removed the window, today, and it came out much too easily.  I remember that people have said to be careful not to ruin the frame when removing it, but it came out very easily.  There was a rubber gasket material between the aluminum frame and the boat (not the gasket that goes between the glass and the frame, but it did not appear to be doing much.  I was planning to replace that with BoatLife-type caulking.  There did not appear to be any space between the liner and the cabin top, so I don't see a need to put any spacer in there.

I suppose, since I have everything else apart, I will replace the gasket between the glass and the frame.  I already have that the gasket, but I don't think that was where the leak would have occurred.

Does this sound reasonable?

Actually, it looks like the starboard side is going so easy, I might as well do the port side too.  I was dreading this job, but it seems pretty simple.

Jeff

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| Jeff Griglack                  "Blithe Spirit" P-30 #182
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| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
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[RICHARD USEN]

I had about ¼” between the inner and outer shells. I stuffed that w/ 3/8 Caulk-saver. I used the U-channel gasket on the glass and a very thin elastomeric “rubber” foam between the frame and the house. If you don’t have any space between the shells, that means you don’t have much compression against the outer gasket which could allow water to come in. My elastomeric compressed down to almost zero and doesn’t leak.

 

My boat has turning blocks forward and clutches and a winch aft. I have no signs of a leak on the clutches and blocks but the winch was adrift. It would’ve leaked badly if I didn’t have it under the dodger. When it was installed, it seems that the top skin was threaded and the whole mess was bolted down w/ 5200 w/o nuts and washers. There is very little space between the lower skin and the nuts and washers. I was able to get nuts on maybe 4 bolts. At the least, it should’ve been decored, filled and threaded. The port winch seems tight so I didn’t touch it. Check your roof  hardware. That seem much more likely than windows for your leak, tho your house does seem thinner than the window. Measure the assembly and see what you have for crush. Don’t use a compound to seal the window. The elastomeric is fine and UV resistant and if it still leaks, a dry assembly is easy to remove and replace. Home depot has all the stuff I needed except the uU-channel.

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[jwlw...@yahoo.com]

I laid in 3/4" closed cell foam from Frost King in the u channel to
add some loft to where the window sits on the side of the house and
the headliner. Then added 3/8" around the outside flange of the window
to compress against the outside of the cabin top. This looks like it
works well and not at all messy. Haven't been able to hit it with any
significant spray of water to see if its holding well yet, but so far
so good.

[RICHARD USEN]

3/8" under the outside flange? You must've needed longer screws. Doesn't the
window look odd so far out from the house?

[jwlw...@yahoo.com]

Sorry 3/8" wide, not thick. Compressed to pretty much nothing and
cannot really see any of the foam around the edge.

On Apr 14, 4:43 pm, "RICHARD USEN" <usen...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 3/8" under the outside flange? You must've needed longer screws. Doesn't the
> window look odd so far out from the house?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com]
>

> On Behalf Of jwlwbl...@yahoo.com

[RICHARD USEN]

Now isn't that better than all the Butyl goop everyone recommends?

[Robert Franklin]

Jeff,

I've known you a long time through this group and appreciate your many wise comments, but to answer your question "Does that sound reasonable" with respect to your windows, I have to say, respectfully, No.

Its not the space between the shells that is a problem.  It is the lack of space, as in your case, that is the problem.  Or maybe I am misunderstanding something you're saying?

Bob Franklin

Its  not the lack of space between the Cabin inner and outer shells that is

[RICHARD USEN]

It sure makes sense to me that the house needs something to clamp the windows against. Caulksaver is so cheap and easy to install that it has to help.

[Jeff Griglack]

At Dick's urging, I added caulk saver.  I had to pry the inner liner away from the outer to push it in there.  just the action of the liners seems to have compressed it  down to almost nothing.  Addint the action of screwing the inner frame to the outer compressed it to the thickness of some paper.

The screws were sized correctly.  They never bottomed out.  I installed it using Frost King D shaped weather stripping (elastomer) that I bought at Home Depot. 

Since we haven't yet had a decent rain, I haven't seen how well it works.  Also, I don't know if this it the major cause of the leak.  The weather man says I'll know on Sunday.

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| Jeff Griglack               "Blithe Spirit" P-30  #182
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| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow

| permanent"  -- Walt Kelly

[Robert Franklin]

If you think Caulk Saver compresses under pressure to paper thinness, just wait until you add a couple 90 degree days to the equation.

I removed all the Caulk Saver, I originally thought was a good idea, and replaced it with PEX tubing about 3/8 diameter.  I expect that will be a soution, also with a finite life.  But not too bad.

When I originally heard Dan Pfeiffer's solution, to put wood shims, epoxied between the skins, I thought it was overkill, but now I'm not sure.                         

Bob Franklin

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Not wood shims.  Fiberglass shims made from that G10 fiberglass sheet.  You cut them to fit in the gap betweeen the headliner and the cabin outer skin to even up the thickness.  The whole idea is to get the thickness uniform all the way around so that there is even clammping pressure from the window frame.  Cut the shims as needed to even the thickness all around and then fill the gap with thickened epoxy.  Then you have a better surface to mount the frame to and achieve a proper seal.  The thixkness of the gap is not as important as the thickness of the finished flange.  There may b e variation (very likely) in the thickness of the headliner becauise it was made on a mold using a chopper gun to spray the fiberglass mixture.  Thickness varies by as much as 1/8 inch.  And they will all be different.  Then there is the overall fit of the liner to adjust for.  Some places it's good some places not so good.  Once all of that is corrected and the flange thickness is uniform (and smooth) you will get a better seal. 

 

Dan Pfeiffer

[Guy Johnson]

No. I still prefer Butyl.
Guy

[Peter Ogilvie]

In replacing my ports, have epoxied the liner and the cabin sides together.  Chiseled away any protuberance, there were just a couple, put thickened epoxy between the liner and the cabin sides and clamped together.  The thickness is pretty much even and now no way a leak in the port will let water into the space between the liner/cabin side and spread throughout the boat.  On the 35, the liner is a problem because of the gap between the liner and cabin side.  By the time you clamp the liner to the cabin, the liner has ridden up by as much as a 1/2 inch in some areas.  Esprecially an issue at the top where the liner curves in to become the headliner. 

 

Pearson did a really crappy job of cutting out the fiberglass for the ports with some cutouts that were barely smaller than the ports.  Thank heavens for Butyl as it kept the leaks at bay till I had the time to do a proper fix.  The new Vetus ports are larger so had to enlarge the pukas and didn't have a problem with the too large holes and the old ports.

 

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
'Ae'a, Pearson 35 #108

From: Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows

Not wood shims.  Fiberglass shims made from that G10 fiberglass sheet.  You cut them to fit in the gap betweeen the headliner and the cabin outer skin to even up the thickness.  The whole idea is to get the thickness uniform all the way around so that there is even clammping pressure from the window frame.  Cut the shims as needed to even the thickness all around and then fill the gap with thickened epoxy.  Then you have a better surface to mount the frame to and achieve a proper seal.  The thixkness of the gap is not as important as the thickness of the finished flange.  There may b e variation (very likely) in the thickness of the headliner becauise it was made on a mold using a chopper gun to spray the fiberglass mixture.  Thickness varies by as much as 1/8 inch.  And they will all be different.  Then there is the overall fit of the liner to adjust for.  Some places it's good some places not so good.  Once all of that is corrected and the flange thickness is uniform (and smooth) you will get a better seal. 

 

Dan Pfeiffer

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Franklin

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:37 PM

Subject: Re: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows

If you think Caulk Saver compresses under pressure to paper thinness, just wait until you add a couple 90 degree days to the equation.

I removed all the Caulk Saver, I originally thought was a good idea, and replaced it with PEX tubing about 3/8 diameter.  I expect that will be a soution, also with a finite life.  But not too bad.

When I originally heard Dan Pfeiffer's solution, to put wood shims, epoxied between the skins, I thought it was overkill, but now I'm not sure.                         

Bob Franklin

[RICHARD USEN]

I’m now staying out of this discussion. I just bought a Tartan.

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Johnson
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:34 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows

 

No. I still prefer Butyl.
Guy
 

> From: use...@verizon.net
> To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:00:07 -0400
>
> Now isn't that better than all the Butyl goop everyone recommends?
>
>

--

[J Muchow]

Sorry for your loss?

---

From: RICHARD USEN <use...@verizon.net>
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 3:40:17 PM

Subject: RE: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows

[Peter Ogilvie]

Good thing defection is not a capital crime.  Hope you stick around and regale us with tales of what a crappy boat Tartans are.

 

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
'Ae'a, Pearson 35 #108

From: J Muchow <jlmsa...@sbcglobal.net>
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 30 Windows

Sorry for your loss?

[RICHARD USEN]

Lets hope you’re wrong. S&S are pretty clever architects. Some of their interior gadgets are quite clever. For instance, the stbd settee has a bunk board that divides the double berth for sitting, reverses as a bunk board for offshore sleeping and lies horizontal for wider sleeping.

[RICHARD USEN]

I’ll let you know how it sails. The first project is to remove the hot water tank. It has to be removed in pieces because it was installed before the cockpit went in. I can see it. I’m not sure how to access it.

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of J Muchow

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:55 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

[J Muchow]

Tell us what Tartan this is!!! All my Tartan buddies and Catilna and Jenn came to my boat on Friday night captains "drunk" night because I had more room than they!

---

From: RICHARD USEN <use...@verizon.net>
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 5:14:51 PM

[Bill Stringfellow]

What, Tartans don’t have windows/ports???

[Steve Reevy]

I did that on our p30... it's a b*tch!  I recommend a good power saw, several hacksaw blades and lots of rum. Steve & Dawn Reevy s/v Weatherlight 1974 Pearson30 #531 Falmouth, Maine USA --- On Thu, 4/19/12, RICHARD USEN <use...@verizon.net> wrote:

[RICHARD USEN]

Thx.

[RICHARD USEN]

Bomar opening ports. They have their own problems.

[RICHARD USEN]

Tartan 33. It has three doubles and a pilot berth, two hanging lockers and 60 gallons of water tanks, also a hot water heater that has to be removed.

[Bill Robart]

Dick,

What Tartan??

Bill

[RICHARD USEN]

33

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Robart

Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:21 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com